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More Trump Pardons Ahead?; Millions Travel For Thanksgiving Holiday; Biden Set to Issue Executive Orders. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired November 26, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: All right, we continue on today, hour three. You are watching a special Thanksgiving edition of CNN NEWSROOM. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

Happy Thanksgiving to you. Thank you for spending your day with me.

Whether you have already sat down for your Thanksgiving meal or you will soon, just take a moment to think of the people who are directly affected by the pandemic today. Almost 90,000 Americans are spending their holiday hospitalized with COVID.

Take a moment to think of the nearly 2,300 families who have lost a loved one just yesterday. In the 55 days until the presidency transitions, the country is witnessing a stark contrast between the two leaders at the center of it.

You have President Trump today spending part of his day at his golf course in Virginia. He is expected to speak to members of the military on a video call later this hour. In President Trump's Thanksgiving proclamation, he is encouraging people to gather today, mentioning zero words of caution or safety from the virus.

On the other hand, you have president-elect Joe Biden and his wife, Jill, they're asking Americans to keep their celebrations small, writing an op-ed for CNN.com today that reads, in part -- quote -- "Like millions of Americans, we are temporarily letting go of the traditions we can't do safely. It is not a small sacrifice. These moments with our loved ones, time that's lost, can't be returned. Yet we know it's the price of protecting each other, and one we don't pay alone. Isolated in our own dining rooms and kitchens, scattered from coast to coast, we are healing together."

And while some people are committed to those sacrifices today, others are not, and health experts are sounding the alarm about the fallout in the next couple of weeks.

CNN's Alexandra Field has more.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALES: Let's have a parade!

ALEXANDRA FIELD, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A Thanksgiving like no other, the annual Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade made for TV only on a closed set. Families across the country are being encouraged to get together on screen only.

DR. CHRIS PERNELL, DAUGHTER OF CORONAVIRUS VICTIM: I did my phone calls last night to friends who I heard were going to travel. And I pleaded with them, please stay home, be safe, so that you can enjoy your loved ones in the future. I don't want anyone to experience what my family has gone through and what my sister is still going through in her fight to recover.

FIELD: Last week, the CDC advised people not to travel for the holiday. Since then, 5.9 million people boarded a plane. The CDC now projects that, by December 19, America will have suffered between 294,000 to 321,000 deaths.

DR. PETER HOTEZ, BAYLOR COLLEGE OF MEDICINE: What we're seeing is the entire midsection of the country screaming high levels. And, unfortunately, now 2,000 deaths per day is going to be the new normal. We will probably head to 3,000 deaths per day.

FIELD: Deaths are now at levels unseen since May, hospitalizations smashing records every day for the last 16 days.

In red hot Texas, there's a rash of new restrictions in places like El Paso and San Antonio, along with the deployment of the National Guard and 1,500 medical professionals.

California is coming closer and closer to the full blown stay-at-home orders of last March. Pennsylvania banned bars from serving alcohol on one of the biggest party nights of the year, the night before Thanksgiving, despite some pushback.

ROBERT PANICO, OWNER, PANICO'S: There's a lot of oppression on one industry, and one industry alone. And it seems to be the bar and restaurant industry.

FIELD: So, for those who are going to gather today, this advice.

DR. ESTHER CHOO, FOUNDER, EQUITY QUOTIENT: Try to layer on everything you can to keep your family members and all of their friends and family safe, so lots of mask-wearing, keeping gatherings short, keeping ventilation good with windows open.

FIELD: This year, there may be fewer turkeys on tables across the country.

KYLE WAIDE, PRESIDENT, ATLANTA COMMUNITY FOOD BANK: The pandemic has led to what we think is the greatest domestic hunger crisis in our country in nearly a century.

FIELD: And, this year, there are too many families in mourning, too many clinging desperately to hope, and some celebrating answered prayers.

CRYSTAL GUTIERREZ, COVID PATIENT: (INAUDIBLE) home. And it's amazing, of course, especially on the day to give thanks. FIELD: Another precious life saved by health care heroes, once wildly cheered for their bravery and their sacrifice, heroes who we can still do more for this Thanksgiving Day.

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, PROFESSOR OF GLOBAL HEALTH, EMORY UNIVERSITY: If you want to cheer your health care worker, put a mask and stay home.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FIELD: Such an incredibly powerful and simple point there, Brooke.

[15:05:00]

But when it comes to exactly how many Americans are really heeding the warnings, deciding to stay home, deciding to limit their gatherings, well, the TSA is saying that more than a million people passed through security at American airports on the day before Thanksgiving.

That is a pandemic era record. It is a far cry from last year, just 40 percent of what we were seeing a year ago. But bear in mind, the TSA also predicts that, Sunday, this coming Sunday, will actually be the busiest day of Thanksgiving travel this year, and it will still take days or even weeks to see what the consequences of that could ultimately be -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: And that will be when we all land, and another round of holiday shopping...

FIELD: Exactly.

BALDWIN: ... hanging around with family. We all worry about that.

Alex Field, thank you very much. Happy Thanksgiving to you. Thank you for reporting on all of that.

Let's get some in-deep perspective on all of this. Dr. Rob Davidson is an emergency room physician.

So, Dr. Davidson, happy Turkey Day to you. Thank you so much for being on with me.

You know, you are on the front lines of this pandemic. We have talked about this before. You're at the hospital. Give us a snapshot just of what you're seeing now and how it's different from the previous months.

DR. ROB DAVIDSON, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, COMMITTEE TO PROTECT MEDICARE: Yes, happy Thanksgiving to you, Brooke. Thanks for having me.

It's -- it's tough. We were down on staff. We have limited number of beds in our small regional hospital. We're either full or near full every -- any given moment. We may have a bed open up every once in a while.

So, we're constantly depending on our EMS crews working 24-hour shifts, working overtime, getting paid way too little, driving people around West Michigan an hour, an hour-and-a-half away.

And, in fact, our ICUs in our big tertiary care centers don't have enough staff. They can make beds. They can make space. So, I'm working an extra shift tomorrow in my hospital, so one of my emergency medicine colleagues can go work as a critical care doctor in an inpatient ICU, something she doesn't do normally.

But these are desperate times. And that is -- that is what we're having to do.

BALDWIN: Was talking to a doc three hours ago saying that, at her hospital, they're already on the third level of backups for some of these -- some of these doctors and folks in the hospital.

I know medical experts, including our CNN medical analyst Dr. Jonathan Reiner, warned that we could see the daily death rate double in the next 10 days, and that the CDC is projecting the death toll will reach 321,000 in just three weeks from now.

Dr. Davidson, do those numbers sound right to you?

DAVIDSON: Yes, I mean, unfortunately, it's grim to talk about these things, but it's a reality.

I mean, we're already so full, like you said, nearly 90,000 Americans and hospital beds right now, far beyond where we have been. And we're starting out. That's our current baseline going into Thanksgiving and four weeks going into a Christmas holiday, where the president isn't helping still. The president is telling people to get together.

Too many people are traveling and getting together in close quarters. And I think there's nowhere to go but up, unfortunately, with this number.

BALDWIN: You want to talk a little bit more about that, I mean, just the point that it's such a, such a contrast between what we're seeing with Biden and Trump, and how Trump is encouraging Americans to gather.

I mean, what risk is he putting on the country by saying that?

DAVIDSON: I mean, it's mind-boggling, because he has such a captive audience, such a group of individuals that are clearly dedicated to him and supportive of him and take his marching orders.

He told people in Michigan to liberate, and they tried to do that against our governor here. So, he could simply say, people, stay home, do what's right, wear a mask, and it wouldn't affect every person who listens to him, but it would make a meaningful impact in our lives and in our patients' lives and our ability to save lives.

BALDWIN: How about even on a -- just on a different level, the mayor of Denver, right? He's saying all the right things, telling folks in Denver, stay home during the Thanksgiving holiday, don't travel.

But, oh, by the way, he traveled to go see his family. A lot of people are screaming hypocrisy. What say you?

DAVIDSON: Listen, all these individual decisions seem very innocuous, because, for one individual or one family, maybe that doesn't mean a whole lot.

But when this is happening millions of times across this country, it adds up. And so I would tend to agree. I think that we need to talk the talk, but we also need to have our leaders especially walking the walk, so they can model good behavior for the rest of us.

BALDWIN: Dr. Rob Davidson, always a pleasure, sir. Thank you so much. And thank you for all that you do.

DAVIDSON: Thanks, Brooke.

BALDWIN: President-elect Joe Biden is preparing to issue a number of executive orders in his first days in office. We have those details ahead.

And President Trump pardoning his former National Security Adviser Michael Flynn, who admitted on more than one occasion to lying to the FBI. Who's next?

And the Supreme Court issuing a new ruling, siding with religious groups who are fighting New York's coronavirus restrictions.

A lot to talk about this hour. You're watching CNN on this Thanksgiving. I'm Brooke Baldwin.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:14:10]

BALDWIN: There are 55 days until president-elect Joe Biden becomes President Joe Biden.

But, for months, Biden and his advisers have been planning out his first days, including a series of executive actions.

With me now, CNN's M.J. Lee and Lisa Lerer, national political reporter with "The New York Times."

And so welcome to both of you. Happy Thanksgiving.

M.J., let me start with you, because you have been reporting this out. What does the Biden team see as its top priorities? And what executive actions are they planning?

M.J. LEE, CNN NATIONAL POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, even if President Trump has not publicly conceded the race, that has obviously not stopped Joe Biden from working on his transition efforts and really building out his next government.

And when you talk to the Biden transition team, they will say that there are sort of three overarching and overwhelming priorities that you can think about that will confront the president-elect once he gets sworn in.

[15:15:03]

We are, of course, talking about COVID-19. We are talking about the economic recovery, and also tackling the issue of racial inequality, an issue that he has talked about so much on the campaign trail. And while transition officials say no final decisions have been made on what kind of executive actions he will take in those first days after he gets to the White House, they say that they're going to examine and consider all of the different levers that are typically afforded to the president once they get into office.

And we know, publicly, he has talked about things like rolling back executive orders that were issued by President Trump that deal with climate change, for example.

And then, of course, there's a second bucket, which is legislative work that he is going to want to do in conjunction with Congress. For example, he said as recently as this week that he is determined to send an immigration bill to the Senate within the first 100 days of getting into office.

So, all of these things are being figured out right now, again, even if the sitting president has not publicly conceded this race to Joe Biden.

BALDWIN: To your last point, Lisa, let me pick up on the immigration point. We know Biden has talked in recent weeks about sending an immigration bill to Congress inside his first 100 days.

Historically, immigration is a political black hole. Why put the focus there?

LISA LERER, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think there is a sense left over from the Obama administration that President Obama and his team tackled immigration too late. In fact, they didn't tackle it at all, really.

It was very far down the list of priorities, after health care and climate change. So I do think there is a sense in Democratic circles that they want to deal with that issue much earlier. Of course, I also think, from a political standpoint, some Democrats were a little shaken by the votes they lost among Latinos in the past election.

So, there's some political imperative there, too. I mean, the real question is whether anything can actually get done on immigration, and it will certainly be a heavy lift. The best-case scenario, of course, dependent on those two run-off races in Georgia, is that Biden has a tie-breaking vote in the Senate.

That's not a very strong majority to pass major legislation. But we will have to see. The political dynamics can change with the arrival of a new administration. But it's hard to imagine that there's going to be much political bandwidth for something like immigration, given the extraordinary amount of work that has to happen on the virus.

BALDWIN: Those Georgia run-offs, that will help determine a lot.

M.J., let's shine a light on the CNN opinion piece that the Bidens wrote for CNN.com. It's a list of gratitudes and also an encouragement to two Americans to stick to the medical science and to stay apart.

Let me read just part of it. They wrote: "This year of loss has revealed our collective strength. It has shown us that our lives are connected in ways unseen, that we can be a part without being alone."

And when you read this, it is quite a different tone from the president today, who wants people to gather together.

LEE: Yes, the tones just really could not be more different between the sitting president and president-elect Biden, right, President Trump and this White House that is basically encouraging folks to get together with family and friends, even though coronavirus cases are surging across the country, whereas Biden has been consistent over the last couple of months, urging people to be responsible and, importantly, I think trying to demonstrate and lead by example.

It's not an accident that he makes sure that he is always seen in public wearing a mask when it's necessary. All of his campaign events recently have very strictly adhered to social distancing rules, and then addressing the nation earlier this week, right, and really just saying, I know this is difficult, I know people are getting tired and impatient, but we could be so close to turning a corner, and it is everybody's patriotic duty to continue acting responsibly, so that life can resume back to the normal ways that things used to be.

BALDWIN: Even before we saw him with the Thanksgiving address, of course, Lisa, we watched the big event with the president-elect, the vice president-elect and their Cabinet picks.

And there have been already some progressive complaints about the makeup of the Biden Cabinet. When do you expect the next round of Cabinet picks from the transition?

LERER: I think we will be hearing them in the coming weeks.

Definitely, I think Biden wants to come into office with a bit of a team in place. And I think we will hear more progressive complaints. This is a tension that's been running in the party throughout the Trump administration between folks who believe it needs to shift more to the progressive things -- side of things, who see the virus and this moment of national crisis as a time for really big structural reform.

[15:20:00]

And then there are folks, which really Biden is more -- himself, is more aligned with this stream in the party, who are eager to restore some sense of bipartisan consensus to Washington, who believe that that can be recaptured possibly with President Trump out of the picture.

So, this is a battle that will certainly (AUDIO GAP) through the Cabinet picks, but also well into the start of the administration and as Biden tries to push through his priorities on everything from economic relief for the virus to the immigration -- possibly immigration legislation.

BALDWIN: We will watch for it in the coming weeks and see if he does choose anyone who is a bit more left-leaning.

Lisa and M.J., thank you both so much for all of that.

President Trump pardons Michael Flynn, a man who admitted to lying to the FBI on more than one occasion. And the president reportedly is just getting started.

We will be back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:25:48]

BALDWIN: We're back on this Thanksgiving. I'm Brooke Baldwin. Thank you for being with me.

In what may be a signal that Donald Trump is accepting that he will be a one-term president, he has pardoned Michael Flynn. Like most of his major announcements, it came via tweet.

Quoting the president here: "It is my great honor to announce that General Michael T. Flynn has been granted a full pardon."

Leading Democrats called it an abuse of power, but they may have to get ready to say that again.

CNN legal analyst Elie Honig is with me now.

Elie, happy Thanksgiving. Thank you for being on with me.

What do you think of the Flynn pardon? And, again, just to remind everyone, this is a guy who pleaded -- admitted guilt, pleaded guilty on more than one occasion to lying to the FBI.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, for sure, Brooke.

Look, I know we all saw this coming. And I know this pardon happened by tweet on the eve of Thanksgiving. But it's worth pausing for a second to appreciate just what a wild abuse of power this is.

I mean, law school students 20, 30 years from now are going to be studying this. This is going to be high on the list of most dubious pardons we have ever seen in our history. And I will give you two reasons.

First of all, Michael Flynn was a political ally, a close political adviser, as you said, the national security adviser for the president. We have had a few that arguably fall into that category.

Number two, though -- and this is what makes it really a unique abuse of power -- Michael Flynn was in the process of cooperating with prosecutors, with Robert Mueller, when the president started floating this possibility of a pardon. Here we are a couple years later. Flynn has been paid in full. He did not cooperate.

And I think that's what separates this from other historically dubious pardons that we have seen.

BALDWIN: Who else, Elie? I mean, he's supposed to be -- Flynn is expected to be the first of several.

What other names are you watching for?

HONIG: Oh, boy, all right. Let's see.

We have got -- you got to look at the other people from the Mueller case, Paul Manafort. Roger Stone, his sentence was commuted. Now he's lobbying for the full pardon. Why not? Trump's handing them out like candy.

George Papadopoulos, other political allies. Family members, potentially Don Jr., potentially Ivanka. Jared Kushner's father was convicted of federal crimes a few years ago here in federal court in New Jersey.

And then, of course, Brooke, the big question, will the president have the gall to try to pardon himself?

BALDWIN: What do you think?

HONIG: Look, he has said by tweet, I have the absolute right to pardon myself.

And just the other day, he retweeted something suggesting he could do that. If he does, we could end up with a major constitutional battle here. We don't know the answer. No one's ever done it before. If he does it, he will be the first. He would probably argue, well, the Constitution doesn't limit the pardon power. I can do what I want, including give one to myself.

The countervailing view, though, is the framers hated this stuff. The one thing the framers of the Constitution hated was self-dealing. You can't be a judge in your own case. DOJ actually looked at this issue in 1974 and gave an opinion, not binding law, but an opinion, that a self-pardon would not be valid.

So we may find out if he tries it.

BALDWIN: While we wait for that potentially to happen, I want to get you on some of the SCOTUS news.

HONIG: Yes.

BALDWIN: The Supreme Court ruled last night in favor of religious groups who had argued that they were unfairly singled out by COVID- related restrictions here in New York. The decision was 5-4, with the new Justice Amy Coney Barrett on the majority side, but the chief justice siding with the minority liberal justices.

Do you think this is a sign of things to come? Is this a decision that we should expect going forward?

HONIG: I do.

Look, this is a whole new court. We were talking about it as Justice Barrett was being confirmed. This is a whole different lineup. Here you go. I mean, you see the difference one justice makes. A very similar case came up to the Supreme Court back in July involving restrictions on religious institutions based on COVID restrictions in California and Nevada.

And the Supreme Court, in that case, upheld those restrictions 5-4. Now you change out Justice Ginsburg, who voted to uphold the restrictions. You fill in Amy Coney Barrett. That's the only vote that changed. But now it's 5-4 the other way.

And so I think this is the beginning, the harbinger of a whole new era in the Supreme Court. They're going to elevate First Amendment, religious freedom over even potentially emergency public health concerns, such as COVID restrictions.