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Many Americans Traveling for Holidays Despite Continued Rise in Coronavirus Cases; Supreme Court Rules in Favor of Religious Groups that Sued New York Governor Andrew Cuomo over Coronavirus Restrictions; President Trump Reportedly Considering Lifting Travel Ban between U.S. and Europe. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired November 26, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is special edition of NEW DAY, as you can tell. Erica Hill is in for John Berman, making a special appearance on this Thanksgiving. It's great to have you here.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: It's nice to be with you for the girl power edition.

CAMEROTA: That's exactly right.

The holiday, of course, will obviously look and feel very different this year. Nearly 90,000 Americans will spend Thanksgiving in the hospital. That's a record, and it's a record that has been broken every day for 16 straight days. More than 262,000 Americans have died. That's an unimaginable number of empty chairs at Thanksgiving tables today. And 2,297 deaths were reported just yesterday. Health officials think all of the signs are there that as bad as it is today, if we don't change our behavior, it will get worse by Christmas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR OF INFECTIOUS DISEASE RESEARCH, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: I worry that the Thanksgiving Day surge will then just add into what will become the Christmas surge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Also, we're just getting some information in from the CDC. There's a study, a new study that estimates that the number of actual coronavirus infections in the United States may be eight times higher than the reported cases. We'll get into that in a moment.

HILL: Also this morning, breaking overnight, Amy Coney Barrett changing the dynamic of the U.S. Supreme Court, her voting handing a five-four victory to religious groups who sued New York Governor Andrew Cuomo over his coronavirus restrictions. Governor Cuomo, you may recall, tried to limit the number of people who can attend religious services during the pandemic, but the justices ruled that violates the Constitution. We'll have more on that ahead as well.

CAMEROTA: But we begin with the pandemic. Joining us now is Andy Slavitt, the former acting administrator at the Center for Medicare and Medicaid Services for President Obama. Happy Thanksgiving, Andy.

ANDY SLAVITT, FORMER ACTING ADMINISTRATOR, CENTERS FOR MEDICARE AND MEDICAID SERVICES FOR PRESIDENT OBAMA: Happy Thanksgiving to you both.

CAMEROTA: We really appreciate you spending some time with us this morning. Can we just start with that CDC, that new study that says that there might be eight times, basically, the number of infections or cases than we know about, than have been reported. What do you make of that?

SLAVITT: That's what we've all been trying to figure out and estimate for some time. We know that there are a lot of people that don't get tested. We know that there was a long period of time early on when there weren't enough tests. So what that tells us is that we've got tens of millions of Americans now who have had this.

Unfortunately, while that's a lot of people, that's not so many people that we're approaching anything like herd immunity. And so it is not a great idea to take that and say, oh, that means if we just get more people, then that will help us arrest this virus. We're seeing the fact that it is not making a difference at all. In fact, community spread is as pervasive as ever, even with those larger numbers. I expect, by the way, that a lot of college kids might be in that list.

HILL: You think they may be in those cases that we don't have documented. How concerned are you about those college kids -- look, many of them had to come home. They had to travel, right. And they want to be home, and they're probably going to be home for the next several months based on what their university or colleges have decided. But how concerned are you about what else they've brought home?

SLAVITT: I'm concerned. Hopefully they brought home some good grades, but I'm concerned that they brought home some coronavirus. And particularly if you got have a grandparent that is visiting, it's not a great idea. I've talked to a few university presidents and professors, and one of the things that they've said to me is, at this point, so many kids have had coronavirus that kids just don't -- because they just assume that other kids they see might or might not have it, or might have had it, so they are almost completely in many respects letting their guards down, because it's just a general assumption that it goes around.

And I think we're going to hear, unfortunately, lots of stories of kids coming home and spreading it not just in their own family, but starting new hot spots in new cities. And I think we just need to be exceedingly careful.

CAMEROTA: Andy, can you help us understand President Trump's Thanksgiving Day proclamation from the White House? He says, quote, "I encourage all Americans to gather in homes and places of worship, to offer a prayer of thanks to God for our many blessings." I know that President Trump, considers -- prides himself on bucking conventional wisdom and ignoring it, but this is so subversive, and such a message that is counter to any doctor we've ever had on. Why would he say that?

SLAVITT: It would be a great message for 2019. But unfortunately, it's 2020. And why the president is obstinate and refuses to say something that will care about the health of the people who listen to him, because, let's be honest, there are tens of millions of people that do hang on his words.

[08:05:10]

And when he says things like that it has an impact. I hope the speech we saw from Joe Biden yesterday, President-elect Biden, where he said this is not political. Let's work together. Let's help each other. We will only solve this together. I hope at some point people start listening to that message and understand that it is not a Democratic message. Far from it. And that he breaks through and connects to people who have been listening to other messages, because we only solve this together. That's true without the vaccine. That's true with the vaccine. We have a huge role to play. And if we don't play it, the virus keeps circulating.

HILL: Do you think we can make real significant changes here in the next couple of weeks to avoid yet another surge? We're likely going to see one leading into Christmas, right, because of Thanksgiving. But the last thing we want to do is build upon a Thanksgiving surge with a Christmas surge.

SLAVITT: I really want to sound hopeful. I would love to tell you that we can. And the reality is, there will be some adjustments, because, as happens in every state, when there's a lot of spread, eventually people do slow it down a little bit. But do I think we can make the kind of adjustments that will not just start to flatten the curve but reduce it? No, I don't think so. I don't think the country has been willing to do that. I think we've decided we want to be rescued by science, and fortunately, great science that's been doing great work. And so we're very close to vaccines.

But it's not -- if that wasn't the case, I would worry such a great extent that we're not behaving any differently. We don't think this is a problem we can solve. Whereas around the world, people understand this is a problem that they as citizens can solve for one another and save lives.

CAMEROTA: Right, science is our superhero, but we're hanging onto the side of the skyscraper, like waiting for science to descend and pluck us off of that, and that's going to be a long, a long time. A month, at least.

Andy, thank you very much. We really appreciate you taking time on this holiday to talk to us.

SLAVITT: Happy holidays, guys. CAMEROTA: The United States, of course, is not alone. The situation

in Europe is also growing more dire, a staggering 4 million cases there in the last week alone. Despite that, a source tells CNN that the White House is considering lifting European travel restrictions. So let's figure out what that means.

Joining us now is Maria Van Kerkhove. She is the coronavirus technical lead at the World Health Organization's Health Emergencies Program. Ms. Van Kerkhove, happy -- I guess I can still say happy Thanksgiving to you. We really appreciate you taking the time to talk to us today. Can you help us understand what's happening in Europe? Because it's a confusing picture. If I put up the map right now, you see lots of countries in green. And so you see Spain, Portugal, Italy, that are still in green, meaning going in the right direction in terms of cases in the past week. And then you see some that are bright orange and red, up 50 percent, such as Sweden. So what's the status report right now?

MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, INFECTIOUS DISEASE EPIDEMIOLOGIST: So thanks for having me on the show. And you can say happy Thanksgiving. So happy Thanksgiving to you and to all of your viewers.

There's a mixed picture. Europe has gone through quite an intense activity in terms of transmission, increases in hospitalization and ICUs, and many of our ICUs and hospital beds are full right now. But we are starting to see the corner turned. We are starting to see in a number of countries that transmission is reducing. But this has come at great costs because many stay-at-home measures have been put in place, many restricted movements have been put in place. But it does help in the sense where this virus needs people to transmit between. It's driven by contact patterns. And if we change those contact patterns, we can change the course of the way the virus spreads.

So they're starting to see some improvements in several countries across the world. But I think what the lesson is here is that we have to put in the work. We have to put in the hard work in the individual measures. I just heard your last guest, we absolutely can turn this around with the science we have right now, with the tools we have right now. And the superhero is not just science. The superhero is each of you. Each of you have a role to play. And these individual measures that everybody can take in terms of limiting our interactions with others, especially in really high transmission areas, will make a difference. Our actions have consequences either good and bad. And if we make the right choices right now, we really can drive down transmission.

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CAMEROTA: I was so struck by reading the comments of health leaders in other countries that seem baffled by what's going on, baffled and concerned by what's going on in the United States. I'll just read a few for you. This is from Australia. He says, "From Australia, this looks like a mind-bogglingly dangerous chapter in the out of control American COVID-19 story." Then from the U.K., "America is bracing for the danger this week. Here we have time to encourage safe Christmas alternatives rather than family Russian roulette." From Cameroon, "On one hand, you see the people dying. On the other hand, you see that the vaccine is close. Why can't you wait despite, of course, the mental challenge?" They just are watching America with, I assume, sympathy and just confusion about what's happening here. Is there a country whose model we can follow? Who has done it right?

VAN KERKHOVE: Well, there are dozens of countries, models that you can follow. In all of the -- all of these countries have really used public health tools. You've heard many people say this isn't rocket science, which shouldn't sound condescending. It just means that there are tools that are in place that work. It's really about active case finding. It's about having strategic testing to know who has the virus and who does not.

And then, really importantly, having the public health actions that follow. If someone is infected with this virus, they need to be isolated. If someone is a contact of someone who is infected with this virus, they need to be in quarantine. It is making sure the public knows what to do, clear communication, consistent, honest, humble. We are learning about this virus all the time. But the measures that are in place, the tools that are in place, you can look across a dozen countries, across Asia, across the Pacific, several countries in Europe showed us how to control this virus over the summer. There were many countries that removed some of these restrictions, and the virus resurged.

But the point here is that we can control this virus and we will do it again. I know America, I'm an American myself, as you know. And I know the resilience of the American people. I know the scientists that are there. And you will turn this around. I do think you're going through a different period and it will be difficult for quite some weeks. But the decisions that are being made now, I hope that there are many individuals who will enjoy this holiday virtually with people outside of their homes. These decisions really do matter because the virus does need people to move through. But I am confident that America will turn this around, confident.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about a little bit of CNN reporting, and that is at the White House, President Trump is considering lifting the travel restrictions from Europe to the U.S. And it's interesting because one of -- President Trump has made sound as if it's his crowning achievement trying to combat this virus was the travel restrictions that he put in place at the end of January on China. And so do you understand now why, while this is raging in the U.S., while we're seeing cases spike in places like Europe, why he would now lift the travel restrictions?

VAN KERKHOVE: Well, I can't comment specifically on what the policies would be in the U.S. But what I can say is for travel, is that there really is no zero risk at the moment as it relates to travel. There have been many ways in which traveling has been de-risked, or the different stages from leaving your home through the way that you travel to your destination, we've reduced risk in terms of exposure and in terms of infection, in terms of transmission. But there is no zero risk at the moment.

What many countries are considering in terms of lifting travel is looking at the destination you're traveling from to the destination you're traveling to, looking at the intensity of transmission in each of those locations, looking at the capacities in the countries to be able to detect a case, to be able to care for that case and carry out contact tracing at the points of arrival. But it really does depend.

The thing that I would ask everyone is, at the moment, depending on where you live globally, because the situation is different in many parts of the world, is, is it essential travel? Do you need to travel right now, or can it be postponed? If you do need to travel, do this in a way that minimizes your risk going forward. But I think we have a lot to learn about how we are going to start to resume safe travel, but there are so many factors to consider when making those policies.

CAMEROTA: Maria Van Kerkhove, thank you very much, and happy Thanksgiving. Really appreciate it.

VAN KERKHOVE: Thank you. Happy Thanksgiving.

CAMEROTA: Breaking news, overnight a ruling by the U.S. Supreme Court that could have an impact on state and local restrictions as the pandemic worsens. We'll dive into the details next.

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[08:18:22]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Breaking news, overnight, the U.S. Supreme Court siding with religious groups in a dispute over coronavirus restrictions in New York that tried to limit attendance at religious services during the pandemic.

Joining us now to talk about this and more, we have CNN political analysts Toluse Olorunnipa and Margaret Talev.

Happy Thanksgiving, guys.

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Happy Thanksgiving.

CAMEROTA: Great to have you share part of it with us.

So, Margaret, this is interesting, on many levels, particularly for court watchers who can now see the influence of Amy Coney Barrett.

TALEV: Alisyn, I think that's exactly right. This was a split decision with the chief justice siding with the liberal wing of the court. I think we'll be looking to see how often that happens now. Roberts is a moderating force and Amy Coney Barrett's influence.

It's also important I think because it's raising questions that the country is going to be grappling with and I guess the Supreme Court is going to be grappling with in the months to come that are about the pandemic and the balance of restricting people's individual freedoms or in this case religious freedoms against public health and kind of public safety. And this is an issue that Roberts and I think the rest of the court

really grappled with, right, which is, is it the job of government to balance public health against personal freedom? Is it the job of judges or justices to do that?

And how does your right to express religion or gather with people with whom you share religious belief balance against -- it's not whether you get sick, it's whether you go into your community and make other people beyond your house of worship sick.

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ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: To get to your point, Robert saying it's a significant matter to override determination made by public health officials, concerning what's necessary for public safety in the midst of a deadly pandemic.

We have reached out to Governor Cuomo's office, still no response from them in terms of the reaction. So, we'll continue to watch for that.

Meantime, the contrast I think on this Thanksgiving morning could not be more stark between the current president and the President-elect. President-elect Biden and his wife, the incoming first lady, Dr. Jill Biden, writing an op-ed for CNN this morning talking about the empty chair at that Thanksgiving -- at their Thanksgiving table and noting just how difficult it is for their family and so many others this year, writing, like millions of Americans, we're temporarily letting go of the traditions we can't do safely. It's not a small sacrifice. Noting these monuments with our loved ones can't be returned, but saying we know it's the price of protecting each other.

Toluse, as we go through these next 55 days or so, I will say, not only will we see more of a contrast, but frankly, we sort of expect what we're seeing from both Joe Biden and Donald Trump. There isn't actually a lot of surprise in what they're putting out.

TOLUSE OLORUNNIPA, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yeah , for the past year and a half, Joe Biden has talked about empathy, he's talked about the fact that he would turn the page for what he called an aberration in President Trump's four years in office and President Trump has been a turbulent president. He's not shown much empathy.

He's made a lot of issues about himself, including the coronavirus pandemic. He's sort of made himself the victim of this pandemic, saying that he would have won re-election easily if not for the fact that this virus came over from overseas and it's clear that he has given up on the idea of trying to control the pandemic, trying to be the wartime president showing national leadership, even as this pandemic has really reached extreme levels, and the infection rate has gotten so high that hospitals are starting to be overwhelmed. We're losing thousands of Americans on a daily basis, and as Joe Biden wrote in that op-ed, there are many empty seats at the table this Thanksgiving. People who couldn't travel, as well as people who unfortunately died because of this pandemic and will no longer have a future Thanksgiving. So this is a very clear contrast between a president who is just sort

of ignoring the fact that America is going through this level of trauma and an incoming president who is trying to level with the American people and focus on the fact that there are hard days ahead. He's talked about the long winter that we face. He's trying to show the American people that we do have a lot of struggle ahead and we will need to hunker down to get through this very trying time. So, two very different messages from two very different kinds of people.

CAMEROTA: Margaret, I can't stop marveling at the contrast. It's so stark. I mean, the split screen couldn't be any more vivid.

You know, this is -- here is Joe Biden also leveling with the American public, sort of not underestimating their intelligence saying, candidly, we are going to have to redouble our efforts, we're going to have to steel our spine, we're going to have to recommit to the fight. We can do that.

Like trying to marshal us and our strength for the next however many weeks, months, this is going to be, and you just compare it to President Trump who obviously told Americans that maybe we should inject bleach or that it was going to magically go away, or today's Thanksgiving proclamation where President Trump says, I encourage all Americans to gather in homes and places of worship, to offer a prayer of thanks to God for our many blessings.

I mean, just not a single doctor -- well, okay, maybe Scott Atlas, in the country could say this is wise advice today.

TALEV: Yeah. It's not the guidance. In fact, it's the opposite of the guidance of every public health official.

But the president really has not devoted the days ahead of Thanksgiving towards any messaging about how the public should approach the holiday and it's been much more focused, again, on the pardon of Michael Flynn, on the messaging about the election. In fact, there was -- he did plan to go to Gettysburg to join what happened yesterday effectively, a rally of Pennsylvania Republican legislators, he did plan to go in person.

I think some of it was just political advice not to go. There were health concerns since one of the advisers around Rudy Giuliani who has been a close supporter of the president did also test positive for coronavirus. So, maybe not safe to go.

HILL: Yeah. Says a lot.

Margaret Talev, Toluse Olorunnipa, good to see you both. Happy Thanksgiving. Thank you.

TALEV: Happy Thanksgiving.

HILL: Two runoff elections in a state that Joe Biden just flipped blue. So, just how important will black voters be to deciding control of the U.S. Senate?

That's next.

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[08:28:54]

CAMEROTA: The 2020 elections will go down in history as a year of great political mobilization by activists. They're rallying cries helped galvanize the black vote, especially in key battleground states. Most voted for Joe Biden, but President Trump increased his share of the black vote this year.

What does this mean for the future and for the Georgia runoffs?

Joining us now two comedians who take politics seriously, hosts of the podcast "Politically Reactive", W. Kamau Bell, political comedian and host and executive producer of CNN's "UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA." And Hari Kondabolu, a comedian, writer and podcaster.

Great to see you, guys.

HARI KONDABOLU, COMEDIAN: Thank you.

W. KAMAU BELL, CNN HOST, "UNITED SHADES OF AMERICA": Thanks for having us.

CAMEROTA: Let's start with the Georgia runoffs since those are coming up.

Kamau, why are those so critical?

BELL: You know, as much as it's great that the Democrats won the presidency, you know, without those two Senate seats in Georgia, a lot of the big work that the activists who put the Democrats in position to win the presidency, they won't be able to get that stuff done.