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Experts Fear Students May Add to Surge; Fars that Thanksgiving Gatherings Will Increase Numbers; Pandemic Relief Set to Expire; Biden Picks Yellen; Hackers Target AstraZeneca. Aired 9:30-10a ET

Aired November 27, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[09:31:00]

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN ANCHOR: Many college students had no choice but to go home for Thanksgiving. The CDC didn't release its own guidance against holiday travel until just last week, too late for many students to change their plans. Experts were baffled by the lack of nationwide guidance over recent weeks as schools prepare to send students home to their families.

I spoke to one student who vowed to take extra precautions before leaving campus.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (voice over): University of Michigan sophomore Elliot Boz took an extra test before leaving campus and reuniting with his family in San Matteo, California, for Thanksgiving. A negative COVID test.

We first met Elliot on campus last week.

ELLIOT BOZ, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN STUDENT: My family's at home and, you know, grandparents are back, so I want to make sure that -- you know, that I'm cleared before I come back home.

GOLODRYGA: Despite a late plea from the CDC advising people to stay put, he's one of the hundreds of thousands of college students who traveled home for the holiday, because staying put wasn't an option.

The University of Michigan and many other universities nationwide ended all in-person classes for the semester this week.

E. BOZ: I think everybody's kind of in the same situation. I'm not unique in any way in that sense. It's just an extra level of thoughtfulness. So I had to go out of my way, get the test, be diligent about, you know, wearing a mask, washing my hands and so on.

GOLODRYGA: These are the scenes health experts desperately wanted to avoid, some 4.8 million travelers passing through TSA checkpoints since the CDC guidance came out last week.

E. BOZ: It's pretty tough because I think students kind of around the country are -- are -- might be thinking differently about this and everybody wants to see their family. So I think in terms of travel, everybody is trying to do their best about how to travel safely.

GOLODRYGA: Universities across the country set their own COVID testing protocol before students left campus. There are no federal guidelines in place, leaving health officials frustrated.

A. DAVID PALTIEL, PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Young, asymptomatic individuals, the so-called silent spreaders, are fueling the epidemic in this country and so colleges have a responsibility to ensure that they don't unwittingly unleash ticking time bombs into the nation's airports, train stations and Thanksgiving dining tables.

GOLODRYGA: Elliot's dad Mike says the family is comfortable with his son's decision to come home.

MIKE BOZ, ELLIOT BOZ'S FATHER: He is a responsible kid and so he got tested and so that alleviates the concerns. So, you know, overall I -- there is -- there is always a risk, but -- but the risk is minimized as much as possible.

GOLODRYGA: Elliot's parents and his 81-year-old grandparents will be together this Thanksgiving, but his older brother Shura (ph), a college senior in Los Angeles, is not coming home from school.

GOLODRYGA (on camera): So what is this Thanksgiving going to be like for you. I bet a little bittersweet having your younger son home but, obviously, the full family can't be together.

M. BOZ: It's going to be a -- kind of a partial family. We had other -- other family members who were wanting to come and they're not coming anymore because of the spike in COVID. And so it's not just -- just my older son, it's other family members.

GOLODRYGA (voice over): It's exactly the kind of holiday precautions Dr. Fauci and other experts are pleading with Americans to make.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NIAID: To the extent possible, keep the gatherings, the indoor gatherings, as small as you possibly can. We all know how difficult that is because this is such a beautiful, traditional holiday. But by making that sacrifice, you're going to be -- prevent people from getting infected.

GOLODRYGA: Sound advice that will extend far beyond Thanksgiving for families with college students home for the rest of the year.

E. BOZ: In terms of the grandparents, it's really being thoughtful about when I see them and how I see them, talking with them, sitting apart, you know, or when giving them a hug, you know, just being thoughtful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:35:02]

GOLODRYGA: And joining me now is Joseph Allen, a public health expert and the director of Harvard's Healthy Buildings Program. He's also the co-author of the book "Healthy Buildings."

Joseph, great to have you on. Happy holidays to you.

JOSEPH ALLEN, DIRECTOR OF HARVARD'S HEALTHY BUILDINGS PROGRAM: Good morning, Bianna.

GOLODRYGA: So as you heard from that piece, we have hundreds of thousands of college students who are going to be back in their communities until January, if not later.

In your view, should they have stayed on campus? Was it wrong to end the semester early by Thanksgiving?

ALLEN: So I don't think it was wrong to end Thanksgiving -- the semester early by Thanksgiving. I mean many universities have done a really nice job at keeping spread down on the campus, largely through -- or through testing, the universities that have relied on a testing strategy in addition to these other controls.

There is a light at the end of the tunnel here. We've seen great news on the vaccines, therapeutics and rapid antigen testing, but in terms of getting kids back at home, we have agency. There is a right now strategy and it's these non-pharmaceutical interventions. So when we -- the kids are back home, or I should say young adults are back at home, there are still things they must do and it's the basics, right? It's mask wearing, it's distancing, limiting your social circles, opening up those windows. These are simple and boring, but boring is good and boring works.

So there are things, you know, it's not just the responsibility of the universities, but it's this responsibility of the individuals, too, as they go home and back to their community and their homes and their life away from the school.

GOLODRYGA: Absolutely. And as you say, there's light at the end of the tunnel. It's now we're seeing the ramifications of what has happened this year with remote learning and students not being at school. We have 74 million kids under the age of 18 in the United States, a large percentage of which are learning remotely, and we're beginning to see data from major school districts showing a spike in failing grades. More than 40 percent of students are failing at least two classes in Houston, Texas, middle and high school students in Fairfax, Virginia, saw an 83 percent increase in fs. The list goes on and on.

How damaging are these trends?

ALLEN: This is a national emergency. That's the only way to think of this. It's really unconscionable that we have these tens of millions of kids who are outside of school. The risks from COVID-19 in schools are manageable. The risks of kids out of school are escalating rapidly every single day. You mentioned a few of these here. We have reductions in kindergarten enrollment, decreases in literacy. This is happening around the country.

In addition to these academic impacts, we see things like missed meals. A billion missed meals this spring alone from kids out of school. We see impacts on these virtual dropouts. Hundreds of thousands of kids who just -- we don't know where they are. They're lost in the system. So we have these massive cost of kids out of school yet we know how to keep both kids and adults safe in school. This is the number one most urgent priority we have in this country right now is getting kids back into schools safely.

GOLODRYGA: And you have promoted and published examples of how to do just that. And yet even today we're seeing schools closing where there doesn't appear to be much spread, New York City, most recently. Meantime, you look at what's happening in Europe, their priority is keeping the schools open.

Why aren't we seeing that here?

ALLEN: Yes, it's been shocking. I wrote an article on this in June. My team at Harvard released a 60-page report on risk reduction strategies. We had evidence from Europe from the spring that schools are not driving community transmission. We now see the same thing in the U.S. data. We knew the cost of school closures would be enormous and devastating. We are seeing those costs.

We can get kids back in school. There's actually some simple things, masks, number one, this is going to be the most effective strategy you can put in. Schools can open windows, even a couple inches, increase the amount of outdoor air coming in, a little better filtration. These are actually really actionable things that nearly every school can do. I've been very careful not to make recommendations that take months and millions of dollars to implement. There are simple strategies we can do to keep kids and importantly adults safe in schools.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, you can understand the concern from teachers, but like you said, there are some solutions, and this is what President-elect Biden has said is going to be a top priority for him as well.

Joseph Allen, always great to have you on. Good to see you. Thank you so much.

ALLEN: Nice to see you, Bianna. Thanks.

GOLODRYGA: Well, holiday season is officially here, but for millions of Americans it's a stark reminder that their unemployment benefits are just weeks away from running out. So where is Congress?

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[09:43:48]

GOLODRYGA: The pandemic is forcing many to rethink Black Friday shopping this year. Millions of Americans remain out of work as coronavirus unemployment benefits and eviction protections are set to expire by the end of the year. Getting the economy back on track will be a task for the incoming administration. So far, President-elect Biden has named Janet Yellen for Treasury secretary with more names on his economic team set to be revealed next week.

Here to discuss is CNN political commentator and opinion columnist for "The Washington Post," Catherine Rampell.

Catherine, we picked the right color today. Both got the memo.

CATHERINE RAMPELL, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: We did.

GOLODRYGA: Good to see you.

So let's get down to this important subject. Can a stimulus deal be reached in Congress with the little time left and how bad will it be if they don't reach a deal?

RAMPELL: I am very concerned that they will not reach a deal. It seems like there is very little interest even in governing until a new president comes into office in January, which is just not an acceptable outcome. But, look, the two parties have been negotiating for months now and still have not reached a deal. Mitch McConnell has indicated his openness to having a deal, to having some sort of additional round of fiscal relief, but has not actually made the movements necessary to get that to happen.

[09:45:07]

And if it doesn't happen, there are dire consequences for Americans and for small businesses. Something like 12 million people are expected to lose their unemployment benefits the day after Christmas. Already 26 million people have said that they did not have enough to eat in the previous seven days according to the most recent census data. And there's a lot of suffering out there. This deal needs to get done now, not two months from now but now.

GOLODRYGA: Yes, the lines around the food banks just kill you when you consider this is the richest country in the world and you see so many people that are in need of just food.

But it really does appear to be a tale of two economies because businesses across the country are on the brink of closing their doors, but we're expecting retailers to see a 3 percent to 6 percent spike in holiday shopping this season.

Is that going to give Republicans pause on pushing forward on any sort of deal?

RAMPELL: It could very well. As you point out, the experience we've seen so far is this sort of tale of two economies, or some people have called it a k-shaped recovery, that you have people who are in white- collar jobs, more highly educated, can still work from home, that sort of thing, they're basically OK. The jobs that they had lost have been, if not entirely recovered, somewhat close to it. And they have a lot of savings that they have a cushion -- that they have as their cushion that they can use to, you know, go out and buy a bunch of Christmas presents.

Meanwhile, you have a large segment of the economy that has been left behind, that hasn't been able to recover those jobs. Businesses that have permanently closed and that even if -- you know, even when there is a vaccine may not be around to rehire people. And I think if you have politicians only looking at the segment of the economy that's doing well, they're not getting a complete picture and they're not feeling the sense of urgency that Americans who are hungry, who are facing homelessness, who are facing bankruptcy, eviction, et cetera, are -- you know, that those fears that they're feeling every single day.

GOLODRYGA: Yes.

RAMPELL: Congress really needs to look at the entire picture here.

GOLODRYGA: And instead of hearing more on that, obviously the president has been touting Dow hitting 30,000, which for millions of Americans means absolutely nothing.

Let's talk about President-elect Biden's pick for Treasury secretary, Janet Yellen. She is a strong advocate for a big economic relief package, but there are some progressives who are worried that her past record, focusing on the country's growing debt, could mean things like student loan forgiveness may be off the table. We know she is highly qualified, obviously. She's the first female at the Fed as well to run the Fed. But are there any indications of how Yellen would tackle this particular crisis?

RAMPELL: I'm not worried about her ability to synthesize the data, to figure out what exactly is the most -- what are the most effective tools available to address the need that's out there and what's the most equitable way to do that as well. If you look at her actual economic research, one of the things that she has focused on, both when she was at the Fed and prior to that was about equity, fairness, you know, things that I would consider American values, right? How do you -- how do you use economic tools to achieve those ends?

In terms of her actual weaknesses, I'm less worried about, you know, is she going to push student loan debt forgiveness, which a lot of economists have argued is maybe not the most equitable way to, you know, to deal with this recession. But more so, does she have the political chops because this is a more political job.

GOLODRYGA: Well, she is a proponent of getting women back into the workforce as well. This is something she advocated prior to this recession. And, obviously, we know that women have been impacted even more than men during times of COVID.

Catherine Rampell, thank you so much. Really appreciate it. Have a great weekend.

RAMPELL: Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Well, it's a place where all are welcome. Another powerful season of "This Is Life" with Lisa Ling premieres with back to back episodes Sunday night at 9:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

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[09:53:35]

GOLODRYGA: And this just in to CNN, North Korean hackers are suspected of targeting vaccine maker AstraZeneca.

David Culver joins me now.

David, what do we know about this?

DAVID CULVER, CNN INTERNATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Bianna, I think this speaks more than anything else to the desperation coming out of North Korea and trying to tap into any of the information surrounding coronavirus vaccines.

As you mentioned, this is dealing with British drug maker, this is AstraZeneca. And as they've been moving forward with their vaccine production and research more than anything else, it appears, according to "Reuters," that North Korean hackers tried to get some information from some of the staff working at AstraZeneca.

So how did they do this? Well, according to "Reuters," they used things like Linked In and What's App and they would send links to some of those working on the research, purporting to look like job offers, trying to entice them. When they would then engage with some sort of communication with those staff members, they would send, according to "Reuters," links that were laced with malware essentially that would then allow them potentially access into AstraZeneca's internal system.

Now, according to "Reuters," the North Korean hackers were not successful. But, again, this speaks to what's happening perhaps more than anything else in North Korea and their determination to try to figure out how to curb the outbreak within that country.

And what we do know is that there has been an extreme level of desperation there because, quite frankly, while there's not a lot of transparency, we do see through actions, such as what we've just heard of today, and that is the execution of a North Korean official for their lack of ability to control the outbreak.

[09:55:17]

So it shows you what they're doing there to try to curb all of this. But more than anything else, the determination to try, Bianna, to get ahold of these vaccines is becoming increasingly apparent here.

GOLODRYGA: And, look, I have to say, David, this had been something that many had feared and perhaps even anticipated throughout this year, so many countries have been -- companies have been trying to quickly get a vaccine together. So this shouldn't necessarily be a surprise. Nonetheless, this does show you the determination of the North Korean regime.

CULVER: That's right.

GOLODRYGA: Obviously, a bad few days for AstraZeneca as well. Their reports say that they'd released in their research so far had not been as promising they had initially expected.

David Culver, thank you so much. Well, as we gather with family and friends, coronavirus is not stopping. Hospitalizations and deaths are spiking. And retailers desperately need people to start shopping.

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