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New York Governor Blasts Supreme Court Ruling On Coronavirus Restrictions; Rep. Lucy McBath (D-GA) Discusses Georgia's Senate Runoff Race; Black Friday Shopping Begins Amid Worsening Pandemic. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired November 27, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00]

BISHOP NICHOLAS DIMARZIO, DIOCESE OF BROOKLYN (via Skype): Looking at what's happened is that we've been restricted to 10 and 25 people at churches that can seat 500 to 1,000 people.

So it will look unreasonable when we don't see that businesses deemed essential, like liquor stores or box stores or other places don't have any limit on the number of people when the space perhaps is even smaller.

So that's basically -- it's a -- it's a change of opinion but the Supreme Court, many times, reverses itself.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Do you see a distinction in -- I know you bring up liquor stores and that was brought up as well -- in some of the -- in what we saw from the Supreme Court if you just go into a liquor store to buy something versus going into a church?

Do you see a difference with someone who will spend time at a mass in terms of the amount of time that they're there and how they may potentially interact versus going in to buy something in a store?

DIMARZIO: A store, you could be there for an hour and usually, our services are 45 minutes.

So, we also -- that you cannot enter the church without a mask. We have the little saying -- no mask, no mass. We make it clear to people that we have social distancing within the church. That's why our capacity is already cut in half because we use every other pew. And then we have all of the other safety features of disinfecting the church, disinfectants for the people themselves for their hands.

So it's safe. We have had no incident where anyone said they felt that they got sick because they went to church.

HILL: Justice Roberts basically cited the science behind decisions that public officials are using to make these public health decisions.

The Pope, of course, with an op-ed in "The New York Times" yesterday, and part of what he seemed to signal was support for some restrictions. So, he writes this. "Yet, some groups protested, refusing to keep their distance, marching as if travel restrictions -- as if measures" -- I think we can maybe put it up on the screen here for folks at home -- "as if measures that governments must impose for the good of their people constitute some kind of political assault on autonomy or personal freedom!"

I'm curious your reaction to the Pope's words and how you strike that balance.

DIMARZIO: Well again, we have accepted restrictions. We believe that we have to be very careful. We're not looking for absolute freedom to do whatever we want in our church buildings. We want to follow the guidelines and we have, except that when we got to the red and orange zones, their limiting us to 10 to 25 people seemed very unreasonable.

And so, again, we are trying to --

HILL: Yes.

DIMARZIO: -- have the ability to make sure that the safety things are taken care of.

I closed the churches 10 days before we were asked to by the state, recognizing at the beginning of the pandemic we didn't know what we were dealing with. I wanted to protect people. That's a preeminent role -- the safety and health of our people.

But at the same time, their spiritual health is important. They should be able to come to church if they wish. We have and end-all (ph) in effect right now so people are not obliged to come to church as Catholics are to come every Sunday.

HILL: Yes.

DIMARZIO: So we have now accommodated that issue.

HILL: If Brooklyn slips back into a red or an orange zone what measures would you take, and what will influence that decision?

DIMARZIO: Well again, we have to go to the Second Circuit. This is not completely decided. So we have a hearing on December the 18th.

Again, we --

HILL: But I'm thinking about for you personally because you have taken these measures. As you said, no mask, no mass --

DIMARZIO: Right.

HILL: -- in addition to other health measures for your parishioners.

So as you look at it, if you do slip back in there, from your perspective, what would be the best measure to keep folks safe if they are continuing to come in-person for mass? What influences that decision and how you make it? DIMARZIO: Well again, we have to make sure that everything is followed properly and then we know we're safe. We have not had any incidents saying that we were spreading the virus there. After people leave church, they're asked to go home directly, not to mill around -- not to talk to one another. So I don't know what more we can do.

Again, the capacity --

HILL: Would you limit in a different way for capacity? I know you said your -- a number of your buildings are very large so they can accommodate -- in your view, safely accommodate more than 10 people. So what would that look like for people who aren't familiar?

DIMARZIO: Well, because we would be at -- 50 percent usually is what's happened now because we're using every other pew and keeping six feet between people. And the same pew -- only a family can be in the same pew. Unrelated individuals go to different pews at one end or the other, so there's plenty of space between them.

[07:35:05]

So we will continue those safety measures and make sure that we're not crowding the church.

Yes, we understand that the transmission now basically is through the droplets from people talking to one another or coughing. So this is the main way that it has been transmitted and I think we have a check for that.

HILL: Bishop Nicholas DiMarzio, appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

DIMARZIO: You're welcome. Thank you.

HILL: President Trump is planning to campaign for Republican incumbents in two Georgia Senate runoffs -- he confirmed that. So the question is will that drive more voters to the polls in a state Joe Biden just flipped, and just which voters will it bring to the polls?

We'll ask Democratic Congresswoman Lucy McBath, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:06]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Speaking of Georgia, I'll be going there.

REPORTER: When?

TRUMP: I spoke with the two great senators -- they're great senators. We're looking for a site. We're going to have a tremendous turnout. And maybe I'll go twice. It's very important that we win those races. These are two great people. And I just want to tell my people don't be disappointed yet because this race is far from over.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump announcing overnight he is heading to Georgia next Saturday. That's a month before the two Senate runoffs that will determine control of the U.S. Senate.

Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Lucy McBath from Georgia. She just won her election to a second term there.

And she's the author of "Standing Our Ground: The Triumph of Faith Over Gun Violence." And we're going to talk about that book, Congresswoman, in just a minute and also this week, which I know is an emotional time for you.

First though, politics. The president announcing he's on his way to Georgia next week to campaign. How much of a difference do you think that will make?

REP. LUCY MCBATH (D-GA), AUTHOR, "STANDING OUR GROUND: THE TRIUMPH OF FAITH OVER GUN VIOLENCE: A MOTHER'S STORY" (via Cisco Webex): Well, you know, Georgia delivered the presidency to President-elect Biden, so we're so excited here on -- in Georgia. We have been so energized in this state.

And nothing that the president does is going to change the fact that Jon Ossoff and Rev. Warnock are really going to win those seats.

BERMAN: The president also, last night, attacked the Republican Secretary of State of Georgia, Brad Raffensperger, and I want to play this for you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: Well, I read this morning where Stacey Abrams has 850,000 ballots accumulated. Now, that's called harvesting. You're not allowed to harvest.

But I understand the secretary of state, who is really -- he's an enemy of the people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: All right, two things. Number one, he's lying about Stacey Abrams. What Stacey Abrams said was that 750,000 people had applied for absentee ballots, which is legal and is not harvesting. So he was lying about that.

Second of all, to call a public official who has been trying to safeguard the elections in this state and whose safety has been threatened an enemy of the people, which is something the president has sort of done throughout the country with election officials -- what's the impact of that not just in Georgia but across the nation? MCBATH: Of course, when we heard those statements we had no idea what the president was talking about. And the president's attacks on our democracy continues to be appalling.

Georgia has been very upfront. We've run clean elections. We've had clean politics, particularly after what we saw happen with our June ninth primary. And so, the secretary of state -- we do have to give him some applause for making sure that he ran clean and safe, and fair elections.

And if the president is not happy with that -- you know, we've done what we were called to do and we've done it fairly. And now, we have a new president-elect and that is President-elect Joe Biden.

BERMAN: You are, in some ways, the embodiment of the new politics in Georgia. And to illustrate what I mean by that and just so people understand, you represent the district that was held, in part, by Newt Gingrich for 20 years. You, when you ran for election the first time, won by a smidge.

You just won by nine points -- we can throw it up. You just had an easy, in a way, reelection bid there -- nine percent. It just shows, in a way, where Georgia is headed and how it's drifted.

How do you explain the change in your district?

MCBATH: Well, as I've often said that this is the new south and that I really believed that Georgia would be on everyone's mind. And I have to say -- now, it was not easy to win by this margin but we've been very, very invested in our district -- very invested in the people of Georgia.

And I showed voters just how I would work for them -- health care, veterans -- protection for our veterans -- gun safety, protecting our children, our small businesses. We just worked on behalf of the people.

And I think at this point -- at this juncture, politically, people not only within my district but across the nation just want people they recognize who are going to go to bat for them in Washington.

And I know that people -- you know, of course, not maybe everyone voted for me, but the thing that I do recognize is that my politics, it's not partisan. I have always reached across the aisle to work for everyone in my district whether they voted for me or not. Because that's what democracy truly looks like and that's how it really works.

BERMAN: I shouldn't have said the election was easy. I know that no election is easy when you're in it. So that's a fair statement right there.

So, you have a book out, "Standing Our Ground," which is about your personal journey. And it was eight years ago this week that your son, Jordan, was killed -- was murdered at a gas station. And that's what vaulted you into this political life and you've written about in the book. [07:45:04]

And what I didn't realize until I was reading your Twitter account was that every year at this time, which has got to be such an emotional time, you actually write a letter to your son. You write a letter to Jordan.

How does that help you?

MCBATH: Well, it's very cathartic and it helps me with my healing. You would think that each and every year that it gets easier but it really doesn't. And this is my way of just kind of reconnecting with Jordan as I continue to evolve, as the work that we do continues to evolve. Because I truly do believe that everything that I have become is somewhat what I expected or was hoping my son would do and be.

And so this is a way of me just kind of giving him a snapshot of where we are, who we are together now, and what we still have to do going forward for the sake of the people that we love.

BERMAN: What did you tell him this year?

MCBATH: Well, this year, I just basically said, you know, we never expected that we one, would have been in this seat the first time, but now the second time, but there's still so much more work for us to do. And that I miss him and that I know that his spirit I carry with me everywhere and that's what truly allows me to be able to work on behalf of the people that I love and care about in my community and the nation.

BERMAN: You're such an advocate for gun safety measures. The fact the Democrats lost seats in the House and the fact that the Senate is up for grabs, it might make it very difficult -- maybe even unlikely for Joe Biden to be able to get some of the gun safety measures I know that he wants and campaigned on and that you want and have campaigned on.

What's your plan?

MCBATH: Well, of course, we're going to continue to work as hard as we always have, my colleagues and I, with this new administration. And we do know that this administration has said candidly that gun safety is a top priority for them.

Red flag laws -- of course, the Charleston gun show loophole, federal background checks for gun sales. I mean, there are a lot of pieces of legislation that we have actually on the books and on the floor in committee right now that we really have to champion moving forward. We'll continue to work as hard as we can.

There are so many people around the country -- over 90 percent of the American population believe in gun safety legislation. And so, I know that we will make a difference. I know it will happen. It's going to take time but we know it's the right thing to do -- just preserving life, saving lives, and keeping people safe so that no one has to be me. BERMAN: Congresswoman Lucy McBath, thanks so much for being with us.

Congratulations on your not-easy reelection. Congratulations on the book.

MCBATH: Thank you.

BERMAN: And we really appreciate you being with us.

And like I said, I know this has -- this has got to be an emotional time for you every year at this week. And just reading those letters, it was moving. It was very moving to see the things that you write your son every year, so I appreciate it.

MCBATH: Thank you so much. Happy holidays.

BERMAN: You, too.

The pandemic changing the way retailers are trying to attract consumers this Black Friday. Details in a live report, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:52:20]

BERMAN: So, the holiday shopping season officially underway on this Black Friday, but what exactly does that mean this year in the middle of the pandemic. Are consumers going to shop in-person?

CNN business correspondent Alison Kosik live at the Palisades Center, the second-largest shopping mall in the New York area. Really interesting to see -- or interested to see, Alison, if it's starting to fill up behind you.

ALISON KOSIK, CNN BUSINESS CORRESPONDENT: It is a little bit, John, but I'm not seeing the Black Friday frenzy that I've seen in previous years.

What I am seeing, though, are those safety protocols put in place. Almost in front of every store inside this mall you see here the stickers out in front. Just in case big enough crowds come and there's a line outside the door, they'll stay six feet apart.

Plus, once you go inside, you have to wear a mask. If you don't have one at this Abercrombie & Fitch, they will provide a mask for you. And there's a limit on how many can enter the store. In this store, it's 65 people.

So there is a big adjustment for consumers when they go shopping this Black Friday. Not just an adjustment for consumers but for retailers as well because it's a balancing act. They want to keep their workers, they want to keep customers safe, and they still need to bring in revenue at a time when the economy is struggling as it is and many businesses are struggling as well.

We've seen Black Friday turn into not just one day of shopping in previous years. We've seen it extend out to one week. And that's a transition that's really being accelerated during the coronavirus pandemic.

We've seen retailers extend those deep discounts over the past couple of months. So, October, November, and December. They've all become Black Friday, both to bring in revenue but also to keep that crush of crowds that we usually see come into malls.

And surprisingly enough, that's one of the reasons that people came in here into this mall early, early this morning, to avoid crowds. Listen to what some shoppers had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LUIS SANTAMARIA, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: I'm not really in a risk category. Usually, like older people. But I would say it's not really worth it for some people but for us, it doesn't really make a difference.

FRED KNOX, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: I feel good. I feel safe. I feel comfortable.

I like it. There's nobody out here. It's perfect. Perfect for shoppers like me.

DAMIAN GNECCO, BLACK FRIDAY SHOPPER: I figured the earlier you go, the less crowd you're going to have to face. And I don't know about you, but I think I'm right in terms of the crowds here. There's very few crowds here.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KOSIK: And the expectation is that this holiday shopping season will be a good one. The National Retail Federation predicts that we'll see an increase in sales in November and December anywhere from three to five percent versus last year, Erica. So it seems like where people didn't spend on entertainment or travel, they're spending on holiday gifts -- Erica.

HILL: Alison Kosik live for us this morning, thank you.

[07:55:00]

Communities across the country are bracing the ripple effect of college students returning home. Most campuses have now closed for the remainder of the year and health officials fear this could compound the already surging cases that we're seeing in terms of coronavirus.

CNN's Bianna Golodryga joining us now with more. I guess just sort of holding their breath in some cases at this point, Bianna.

BIANNA GOLODRYGA, CNN SENIOR GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, Erica, we anticipated this. Last week, we visited colleges across the country. Remember, without federal guidance, without a universal plan, each school was on their own in debating how they were going to handle students leaving campus. Many mandated testing, many did not.

So when we visited colleges we came across one student, Elliot Boz, who said that he was going to take extra precaution going home because his grandparents were going to be at home. So this week, we decided to visit him and his family in California to see what those precautions are.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): University of Michigan sophomore Elliot Boz took an extra test before leaving campus and reuniting with his family in San Mateo, California for Thanksgiving -- a negative COVID test.

We first met Elliot on campus last week.

ELLIOT BOZ, UNIVERSITY OF MICHIGAN STUDENT: My family is at home and grandparents are back, so I want to make sure that I'm cleared before I come back home.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Despite a late plea from the CDC advising people to stay put, he's one of the hundreds of thousands of college students who traveled home for the holiday because staying put wasn't an option.

The University of Michigan and many other universities nationwide ended all in-person classes for the semester this week.

E. BOZ: But I think everybody's kind of in the same situation. I'm not unique in any way in that sense. It's just an extra level of thoughtfulness. So I had to go out of my way to get the test and be diligent about wearing a mask, washing my hands, and so on.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): These are the scenes health experts desperately wanted to avoid. Some 4.8 million travelers passing through TSA checkpoints since the CDC guidance came out last week.

E. BOZ: It's pretty tough because I think -- I think students kind of around the country are -- might be thinking differently about this and everybody wants to see their family. So I think in terms of travel, everybody's trying to do their best about how to travel safely.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Universities across the country set their own COVID testing protocol before students left campus. There are no federal guidelines in place, leaving health officials frustrated.

A. DAVID PALTIEL, PUBLIC HEALTH PROFESSOR, YALE SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Young, asymptomatic individuals -- the so-called silent spreaders -- are fueling the epidemic in this country. And so, colleges have a responsibility to ensure that they don't unwittingly unleash ticking time bombs into the nation's airports, train stations, and Thanksgiving dining tables.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Elliot's dad, Mike, says the family is comfortable with his son's decision to come home.

MIKE BOZ, FATHER OF ELLIOT BOZ: He is a responsible kid and he -- so he got tested and so, that alleviates the concerns. So, you know, overall, like there's always a risk but the risk is minimized as much as possible. GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Elliot's parents and his 81-year-old

grandparents will be together this Thanksgiving. But his older brother, Shurre (ph), a college senior in Los Angeles, is not coming home from school.

GOLODRYGA (on camera): So what is this Thanksgiving going to be like for you? I bet a little bittersweet having your younger son home but obviously, the full family can't be together.

M. BOZ: It's going to be kind of a partial family. We've had other family members who were planning to come and they're not coming anymore because of the spike in COVID. And so, it's not just my older son, it's other family members.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): It's exactly the kind of holiday precautions Dr. Fauci and other experts are pleading with Americans to make.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: To the extent possible, keep the gatherings -- the indoor gatherings as small as you possibly can. We all know how difficult that is because this is such a beautiful traditional holiday, but by making that sacrifice you're going to prevent people from getting infected.

GOLODRYGA (voice-over): Sound advice that will extend far beyond Thanksgiving for families with college students home for the rest of the year.

E. BOZ: In terms of the grandparents, it's really being thoughtful about when I see them and how I see them. Talking with them sitting apart. Or when I'm giving them a hug just being thoughtful.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

GOLODRYGA (on camera): So, Erica, that's a real complicated situation, right? Thanksgiving has passed but these college students are going to be home, many of them for the rest of the year through mid-January before they do go back to campus.

So the focus will be on them remaining vigilant about controlling their behavior, about being extra cautious around elderly and family and loved ones, and remaining in that family bubble. It's not just a couple of days. It's going to be a couple of months now.

HILL: Yes, that's for sure and that's the hard part, as we know.

Bianna, appreciate it. Thank you.

GOLODRYGA: Sure.

HILL: NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world.