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Cuomo Prime Time
CDC Panel: Health Care Workers & Nursing Home Residents Should Get COVID-19 Vaccine First; Biden To Struggling Americans: "Help Is On The Way"; Justice Department Investigating Presidential Pardon Bribery Scheme. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 01, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: On-demand.
The news continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: All right, thank you, Coop.
I am Chris Cuomo and welcome to PRIME TIME.
Today is Giving Tuesday. I ask you to reach out in any way that you can because the need out there is great. And I have two important items to give to you.
First, breaking tonight, we've just learned who may get the first access to a life-saving COVID vaccine.
A CDC advisory panel voting, a short while ago, 13-1 to recommend health care workers and residents of long-term care facilities be the first in line to get the shots when the FDA authorizes one for emergency use. That may be later this month.
Now, the single vote against the recommendation came from a Doctor concerned vaccine effects hadn't been studied yet in residents of long-term care facilities, only one vote.
But concerns about the vaccine's safety and readiness are shared by many in this country, and most measures say we are about split on taking the vaccine, so there's work to do on proving the safety.
However, for those anxious for prophylaxis, according to Operation Warp Speed, and a document taken by CNN, the first shipments of Pfizer's vaccine, for FDA consideration, will be delivered on December 15th. And the Moderna vaccine's estimated delivery is December 22nd. That's just two weeks and three weeks away.
But it will be many months before we have enough herd immunity to make that vaccine really work. The period between now and then could be the worst of this pandemic.
Cases are only growing, more than a million new cases per week. More than 2,300 deaths, that's from today, 2,300 in day. Do you remember when 1,000 seemed unimaginable that we had that many. Now it's more than double that. So, forget your fatigue. Face the reality. The worst is likely yet to come.
What do we need? Leaders and money. We need people to be told the truth. That's leadership. They have to be given tests and resources to stay safe. That's money. But most of all, they need cash in their pocket to survive the rest of this pandemic.
Can you believe today was the first meeting between lead negotiators on a relief bill for you since October? Shame on them all!
We pledge, on CUOMO PRIME TIME, we will stay on this process, soup to nuts, most importantly, not just the big developments, the spaces in between. Who is resisting, and on what basis? Is it a good argument or is it a bad one? This will be a platform for them to make the case to you, because it matters.
Here is the latest offer from the Senate, $908 billion. That sounds humongous. But it doesn't include a second round of stimulus checks, why? We have one of the key senators behind the plan, in a moment, to make the case.
One good sign is that our President is no longer just tweeting about hunger and poverty and passing. And by President, I mean President- Elect Joe Biden. He is directly pushing Congress to make a deal while unveiling his Economic Recovery team, earlier today.
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JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: The full Congress should come together and pass a robust package for relief to address these urgent needs.
My transition team is already working on what I'll put forward in the next Congress to address the multiple crises we are facing.
Our message to everybody struggling right now is this: help is on the way.
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CUOMO: The scale and the scope is the biggest we've seen since the Depression. And I argue to you, the motto of that time, of the new deal, applies every bit as much as today. Do you remember it? Relief, reform, and recovery.
Families need money, in pocket, in addition to programs. That's the relief. We do need to reform the response to this pandemic. Testing, figuring out the best way to keep our kids in school. It can't be that one class is shut down by one case. It doesn't make sense.
There has to be a better, smarter way. Nobody's even talking about it. That must be reformed. And then, and only, then, will we be able to start recovery once the vaccine cuts the spread. Now, what does this take? Well it takes a deal. Can there be a deal with the Party of Trump? Re-Trump-licans, like McConnell, still won't acknowledge that Biden will be President in just 50 days.
He literally refused to do so, again today, and also, said this.
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SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): We don't have time for messaging games.
We just don't have time to waste time.
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CUOMO: How does he say it with a straight face? That's the part I admire. How? He has done nothing but slow-walk the relief, and he knows it. He's told people there would be no deal. And then with a straight face, he just lies to you.
Remember, remember, who did and did not do what mattered in this moment.
Now, our second big development today may remind McConnell that he was once a man, not just a mannequin. That development is that as we saw in "The Lion King," the hyenas are starting to circle President Scar.
The Attorney General, who just weeks ago, lent credence to the ballot BS that Trump is conning you about, and be clear, that will be a big part of Trump's legacy, OK, with this con-job to sabotage this transition that may solidify his place as arguably the greatest Ameri- CON President we've ever had.
Now, however, even Barr is trying to re - what would you call it? Maybe resurrect a modicum of morale leadership. He told the AP today, there is no evidence to support the widespread fraud lie, no evidence that could have changed the result of the election.
Again, Attorney General B. Barr, defender, par excellence, of this President, in every bit of piffle that comes out of his mouth, says "No evidence of fraud that could have changed the election." Do you hear that?
On the same day that Barr said that a Judge forced his Department of Justice to tell us something else that it had been keeping quiet. They are investigating allegations of people seeking to bribe their way into pardons.
That comes out just as we hear that Rudy Giuliani and others are asking for exactly that, pardons. Question is "For what?" Talk about a guilty conscience! There's not even an investigation yet. You want a pardon? And you're telling me everything you do is legit, but you want a pardon?
"The New York Times" is reporting tonight that along with the potential Giuliani pardon, Trump has discussed with advisors whether to grant preemptive pardons to his kids, Ivanka, Don Jr. and Eric, and also to his son-in-law, Jared. What does that say that he wants to excuse them for things before anybody's even saying there is an investigation?
Now, bad news for Trump translates into good news for the drama, finally ending, around this transition, so we can now finally focus on the pandemic that Trump has all but ignored. What do you say? Let's get after it.
For more on the breaking vaccine vote, from the CDC, let's bring in former CDC Acting Director, Dr. Richard Besser.
Good to see you, Doc.
DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER CDC ACTING DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT & CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: Good to see you, Chris.
CUOMO: The priority going 13-1, health care workers and nursing home recipients, that second group new. We had been told hospital workers, essential workers, then the medically-fragile, then them. So, what do you think of those first two decisions?
BESSER: I think it makes a lot of sense. I have worked with the Advisory Committee on Immunization Practices, this group that advises CDC on immunizations, and who should get them. And as a pediatrician, I've always looked at them for guidance.
What they've done here, in selecting these two groups, the first, looking at health care workers, we need to make sure that our health care workforce is safe in order to take care of all of the people who are - who are coming down with COVID and all of the people with medical issues unrelated to COVID who need care.
In addition, if you look at, at who has borne the greatest burden, in terms of mortality, 40 percent of the deaths during this pandemic have been among people in long-term care facilities.
So, one of these is helping keep society going, keeping our health care system going, and one is addressing the issue of who is dying from this pandemic.
CUOMO: It's interesting. One, of the 14-person panel, one Doctor, said "We don't know enough about how this works on old people." To you - they are right. We haven't seen testing of any vaccine that we know of on that population. Is a reservation warranted?
BESSER: Well normally, Chris, what would happen is the FDA would do their work first. They would review all of the data coming in from industry.
Then their Advisory Committee would look at the report from FDA and make a decision "Do we license this or not? In which groups are we going to - are we going to license this vaccine," and then CDC would do their work, their Advisory Committee. They've reversed that here because states need to know "Look, vaccine is likely going to be coming soon. We don't know for sure that these are going to get approved. But there's a good chance they will. Who should get that?" And so, that's what happened here.
It may be in the work that FDA does that they're able to look, and say, "Well look, when we look at these studies, they gave the vaccine to X thousands of people over a certain age. We think that this will be good in that population."
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Or they could come back to the companies, and say, "We really want you to conduct additional studies, among medically-fragile people, in long-term care facilities." But you know?
CUOMO: OK, so let's say--
BESSER: Yes?
CUOMO: Let's say they do the due diligence the right way. It rolls out. It's fine. Now, let's take it a step deeper than we've seen in the coverage of this headline moment about the decision. And that is "OK, so that's what the federal guidance is."
Now you get to the state level. And I did some digging around in the Tri-state area here, New York, New Jersey, Connecticut, because you've had so many cases here.
They may well not get enough doses, the expected 40 million doses this month that's enough to immunize 20 million people, remember you got to divide every number, because you need two shots here, that won't be enough to cover the estimated 24 million health care workers and nursing home residents in Phase 1a.
So, just because we've been given a determination by the CDC, who gets it, doesn't mean you can fulfill the entire population. What kind of onus--
BESSER: Yes.
CUOMO: --does that put on states? What kind of choices will they have to make?
BESSER: They're going to have to make tough choices. And because there clearly will not be enough vaccine to reach those two highest-priority groups.
States have been working on this, now that they know the recommendation from the federal government. It is only a recommendation. There is nothing legally that binds them to that.
But as we have seen, throughout the pandemic, there's been a desperate need of leadership, from the top, in terms of recommendations. So, this will give them work in terms of planning. One of the critical things, I serve on the Restart and Recovery Commission, here in New Jersey, and they are talking about the importance of equity, and making sure that as you look at distributing vaccine, to people in health care, or people in long-term care facilities, are you going to be making sure that it's getting to communities of color that have been hit so incredibly hard--
CUOMO: Right.
BESSER: --by this pandemic? Or is it going to be to those health care facilities in the wealthier neighborhoods, those that have better connections?
CUOMO: We're going to have to keep an eye on that, and that won't be easy. We're going to need state consideration. This is going to be a big reporting job, this vaccine.
And that on the initial level, I understand Operation Warp Speed is legendary in terms of the speed of doing this, and the commitment by government, putting the money up front when it could have failed, was a ballsy move, to use indelicate language, for an indelicate situation.
However, there are complaints that the FDA is taking too long to approve the vaccine, since Pfizer applied for their EUA, their Emergency Use Authorization, on November 20th.
What do people have to understand about the timing of authorizations?
BESSER: Well the naming of this as "Operation Warp Speed" may have been a challenging name because a lot of people are concerned that things are going too fast.
CUOMO: Too fast, right.
BESSER: And one of the things about FDA is that they are known for doing due diligence, and really carefully looking through data.
A lot of countries will take company data, and just go with that on their approval. Here in the U.S., FDA scientists will do their own analysis of the data, and sometimes they don't agree.
So, we need to let FDA do this because you could end up with a vaccine being approved, but if people think the process has been politicized, no one's going to want the vaccine and it's not going to have any impact.
We need FDA to look at it carefully. We need their Advisory Committee to let us know the honest truth. And if some people there feel there is additional data that are needed, or if the companies are unable to show that they can manufacture these vaccines, to scale in a way that's safe, then we have to go a little slower than we're currently going.
CUOMO: Well look, luckily, Trump didn't poison the vaccine the way he did masks, because this hasn't been politicized other than some people have misgivings about whether if Trump was behind it, you know, can we trust it.
But this is more about the Operation Warp Speed, and the FDA, and we'll take that one step at a time based on the data, which leads us to the science.
Now, in terms of the real challenges, going forward, the idea of "OK and great, and then we'll just distribute it," I keep being told, on the state level, and even on the federal level, "Yes, we give out about 80 million vaccines a year here for different things, so the government knows how to do things of a certain scale."
But we have never done anything like this, Doc. What are the challenges that come, front of mind?
BESSER: Well there are - there are a number.
These vaccines have storage requirements that are very different from the vaccines I give as a pediatrician. The Pfizer vaccine requiring temperatures of minus-90, requiring new technology to be able to move those vaccines around, in a way, so, that they stay effective.
We're going to need to be able to track people to make sure that somebody who starts with the Pfizer vaccine gets the second dose in four weeks, and it's the same vaccine. They're not mistakenly given the Moderna vaccine.
And as you have a population that be - may be moving around, logistically that's all really, really challenging, and it's some of the planning that states have to do. And then, as this is going on, there are going to be more vaccines likely that come on market. How do you ensure that people are getting the right products?
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CUOMO: What happens if you get the first one, and don't get the second one within the four weeks for whatever life brings?
BESSER: Well typically, a company will be able to look at that because they'll have people in vaccine trials, who, for one reason, or another, only get one dose, and you can look at protective levels.
I would expect that with one dose, there is some level of protection, and then with the second dose, you get more protection that lasts longer. But that's one of those unanswered questions because of how fast these are being done and how short the period of follow-up is.
CUOMO: Last question.
BESSER: One of the things, I know, FDA is going to ask for is following the people who are in these trials for many, many months, if not years, to look for longer-term issues and side-effects, and how long the protection lasts.
CUOMO: How long the protection lasts, one question. The last question is how soon does it start working? BESSER: Well the initial results, again, it's company data, so we'll be looking to FDA, but the initial results were showing protective levels, seven days after your second dose. So, there is probably some level--
CUOMO: Second dose.
BESSER: --yes, second dose. There is probably some protection after your first dose.
But my biggest concern right now Chris, is that people are hearing all this news, and they're thinking "We're out of the woods, and the vaccine release that may come means we don't have to do the things that are driving everyone nuts."
CUOMO: Yes.
BESSER: Like wearing masks and keeping apart from friends and loved ones.
And I hope it doesn't take pressure off Congress because, as you were saying before, if you are not putting money in peoples' pockets, if you're not extending eviction protection, and the home foreclosure protection, and keeping peoples' utilities on, this pandemic will be an absolute debacle this winter, as more and more people get affected, and they don't have the supports they need.
CUOMO: Dr. Richard Besser, thank you very much.
BESSER: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: All right.
A breakthrough on the horizon, economically. How about that piece that the Doctor was just talking about, relief to millions of Americans? Remember, more people, hungry, and in fear of going hungry in this country than at any time, since the Great Depression, almost one in six of us, 50 million people.
We have one of the senators behind the new bipartisan bill in the Senate. Not a sure thing, but Joe Manchin, Senator from West Virginia wants to make the case, next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT. (END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: We haven't seen anything like it in a generation. I can't believe it's not all that people talk about.
Look at the number of people that are going hungry in America. I mean, how do you explain it? You can't pass it off as "Oh, those poor people, you know, they don't want to work the way we do." It's not what it is.
It's families that have been displaced by economic hardship from this pandemic, all across the country, Red and Blue states, White families, every color, every creed, people just like these.
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REGINA STATUS: Just surviving. That's all I can say. You just have to survive it.
CYNTHIA CUTLER: I haven't been working since December.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: March maybe.
CUTLER: Can't find a job. They cut - cut off my unemployment.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We have kids and they don't know that we don't have money to support them.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Failure as a parent, as a man, to know that you can't provide for your family.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Kids like him.
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CUOMO: It's all of us.
For the first time, in too long, those elected to take care of the people that you see there, are talking about doing something. That includes a word we haven't heard in a while, bipartisanship. You need two sides to make a deal, in a culture that seems to reward opposition more than anything else.
Can they get a deal done? Democratic Senator Joe Manchin, from West Virginia, joins us now.
Good to see you, Senator.
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Good to see you, Chris. How are you?
CUOMO: Better than I deserve. Is it true that--
MANCHIN: Enjoy.
CUOMO: --the lead negotiators here haven't talked since October? MANCHIN: Well, I am not going to speculate on what they haven't done or what has happened. Nothing has gotten done. We don't have anything in front of us.
And about three weeks ago, there was a group of us, came together, and said, "Listen, we're not going to go home during the Christmas break, if we have to face the people," who you said are hungry, having a hard place, keeping a roof over their head, all of the hardships they're going through.
And we've committed ourselves to making a difference and changing things. So, we started working. We didn't condemn or curse the darkness. We just said, "Let's start working guys. Let's look at what the needs are."
So, this is truly an emergency relief COVID package. It's an emergency relief, through April to April 1st, so December 1 through April 1st. And I think we are entering, Chris, of the most difficult, challenging times of this COVID pandemic than we have ever seen.
CUOMO: So, your Party says "No, Joe. We're only going to get one bite at this apple."
MANCHIN: Yes.
CUOMO: And even though $900 billion is a ton of money, to the rest of us, it's less than the White House offered in October. It's way less than the Democrats need. It doesn't have money for checks directly to families. It's not enough. And that's why there is only five of you, behind this bill, and not 45.
MANCHIN: No, no, Chris. On the Senate side, we have - we have about 10 senators evenly split. We have many more now that are coming on board that want to be involved in there. We need everybody. And this thing is really getting a lot of momentum because we looked at all of the critical needs we had.
When you look at everything that people are going to be losing, as of December, whether it be unemployment checks, food assistance, all the different types of support, lifelines we've had, those are eliminated as of December.
Now, you tell me somebody in the right mind or someone that has a heart and soul can go home, and they're responsible for making a difference, and letting people be in that type of misery. We're just not going to do it.
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And if they're telling me that it's not enough, let me tell you, we're doing all that we can right now to find that middle ground, and find the necessities we need.
$908 billion is what this bill is. We have $26 billion for nutrition. And these aren't just the people that are on food stamps, or the SNAP program. These are people that you've never seen in a food hunger line before.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: A food bank. Look at all the - I've been watching your show. You are showing lines and lines of people.
CUOMO: Yes.
MANCHIN: And these are not your typical people that are going hungry.
CUOMO: But why not checks to families?
MANCHIN: They are hungry now.
CUOMO: You did it last time. Why not checks to families?
MANCHIN: Well here's the thing.
CUOMO: That worked well.
MANCHIN: No, no. And it might work again. But don't you think we're doing - we're trying to get something that we can get everyone to agree on, which is the emergency needs we have right now.
Joe Biden will be our President-Elect. He'll be our President as of June - of January 20th. And when that happens, he can come back and determine we need to do that. But right now, we are just trying to get things out the door.
We've got our Republicans stuck around $500 billion, repurposing the money that's not been spent from the first CARES package, about $560 billion. We're putting another $348 billion to it, to make this work, and we have people having a hard time with that.
CUOMO: Why wasn't the money spent?
MANCHIN: $300 billion is what it takes - $300 billion is take - was what it takes for an extension to the stimulus package as far as checks to everybody. Joe Biden might decide to do that.
Right now, we are just trying to get a group of Democrats and Republicans that can meet the emergency needs of America.
CUOMO: I hear you. Let me just go through what the needs are, so we can understand it. You said there is a lot of money that hasn't been spent.
MANCHIN: Sure.
CUOMO: Why not?
MANCHIN: Well basically there was $128 billion of, what we call, PPP money, that's the time--
CUOMO: Payroll Protection. MANCHIN: --in August. So we can - Payroll protection. We'll re- appropriate that, and we've put another $100 billion - and I think a $160 billion or - the total amount, it will be $300 billion when we're done, back up to $300 billion.
CUOMO: But you understand what I'm asking, Joe? A lot of people say--
MANCHIN: So we can re-appropriate the $128 billion--
CUOMO: A lot of people say "Hey, it was too hard to get that PPP that I tried to get online. I couldn't get online. The software didn't work. I couldn't get connected."
MANCHIN: Right.
CUOMO: "I couldn't file it." So, they never got the money. So that need still exists.
MANCHIN: Well there's a lot of people did--
CUOMO: And now there's even more need.
MANCHIN: But a lot of people that did.
Well, first of all, what we're doing, we're forgiving all the loans, basically $150,000 or less will be forgiven. And next of all, what we're doing is we are changing the things that we know that we made mistakes. We saw the problems that people had.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: We saw the hardships they went through. We saw a lot of people getting money that really didn't - shouldn't have gotten it.
CUOMO: There's going to be fraud. There are going to be grifters.
MANCHIN: We heard about that, the large corporations.
CUOMO: Right. But you know the pain is real.
MANCHIN: Right. So, we're basically trying - we're trying to close all those loopholes, Chris. We're doing everything we can to make sure the small needy businesses - we've got restaurants that can't make it.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
MANCHIN: And the outdoor dining, you can't do outdoor dining in the North.
CUOMO: True. It's too cold.
MANCHIN: OK? We're having that. We have a lot of people. We've got stages. We've got basically, entertainment.
CUOMO: Yes.
MANCHIN: They're not going to make it.
CUOMO: Not going to make it.
MANCHIN: We can't wait till February, till Joe Biden comes in, and trying to save us. We can't wait that long.
CUOMO: Agreed.
MANCHIN: They won't - they won't make it.
CUOMO: Agreed. One thing though, Joe, and you know I respect you, trying to get deals done, and trying to be a fair broker. But I wouldn't--
MANCHIN: Yes.
CUOMO: --I wouldn't sleep all together on the shame game because when you say "This is an emergency. We have to get it done," that's true. But it's been an emergency for months.
MANCHIN: Yes.
CUOMO: And the Head of the Senate said "We don't have any time to waste." You know that he has refused to do anything on this. He slow- walked it all along. Why is it an emergency now?
MANCHIN: Well I understand--
CUOMO: You know 200,000 were dead.
MANCHIN: Here I understand as soon as we--
CUOMO: Crazy unemployment. Generational poverty.
MANCHIN: Yes.
CUOMO: That wasn't enough, but now it's an emergency.
MANCHIN: Well leading up to the election, everything was Trump, forget the pun, by politics. The election was coming up, and everybody was playing "OK, who does it help more? Who would it harm more? How can we blame somebody else?" Maybe that's the way that politics were played.
Peoples' lives are at stake right now. We haven't done anything for quite a while.
CUOMO: Yes.
MANCHIN: I think July was the last thing we did anything with the CARES package, and everyone has talked about we need more relief that all the economists have said it.
Every bill that you've seen introduced since then, the House has passed $3.2 trillion, which was the HEROES Act. They accommodated and went down and adjusted to $2.2 billion. And then basically they got stuck, they negotiated with Mnuchin in the White House. They were stuck at the $1.8 trillion this and that.
Mitch McConnell put the HEALS Act down at $1.1 trillion, at the end of July. We are excused, and go home for August, which we should have never left here, Chris. We come back and he starts over at $500 billion.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: Now, you tell me, he went from $1.1 trillion to $500 billion, and that's supposed to be in good faith? I don't think so.
CUOMO: Some bad faith.
MANCHIN: And nothing has happened since then.
CUOMO: I know. That's why I told bad faith.
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MANCHIN: And you know I've talked - I've talked to - I've talked to Chuck Schumer about this. Chuck says "Listen, if you can get some people together, do it. We're running into an impasse here. But if you all can do it, do it."
So, I appreciate that. And we did. And we've got Republicans and Democrats truly, truly trying to get something done as quickly as we can before the Christmas break.
CUOMO: So you got 10--
MANCHIN: We're just not going to go home.
CUOMO: I hear look--
MANCHIN: We're just not going home.
CUOMO: Good. You shouldn't go home. They are going to tell you not to travel anyway. It'll be good.
MANCHIN: Right.
CUOMO: You will be - stay there and do something. But Senator, I appreciate you doing this. You are right about the urgency. And I make you this offer that's guaranteed. No need to counter.
I will give you a platform on this show every week until it gets done, between now and Christmas, to come on, and just tell us the state of play. What's helping, what's hurting, what are the sticking points, so people know, OK?
MANCHIN: Let me tell you this, Chris. For the last three weeks, all through our Thanksgiving break, we were on the phone five hours, six hours, seven hours, a day, trying to make something happen.
We were trying to work through our differences. It was a - it was a monumental task just to get to $908 billion. People were saying, "Well it's too small, it should have been $1.2 trillion, $1.5 trillion." I know it should have been. Couldn't get there.
Some people said "Too much. Should be at $500 billion." It's not enough. You are not taking care of the people that are hungry, people that are losing basically their place of inhabitant. They're getting thrown out, eviction, things of this sort.
We are trying to bring all of this together to meet the truly suffering and needs of the people of America.
CUOMO: Keep telling them.
MANCHIN: And I think we've done it.
CUOMO: Keep telling them, Joe.
MANCHIN: And we need more and more help.
CUOMO: Keep telling them, Joe, because not having checks is going to be a tough--
MANCHIN: We will. We're not giving up.
CUOMO: --sell on the Left.
MANCHIN: We'll get it.
CUOMO: The number is going to be a tough sell on the Right. But keep telling them, "Remember, you know, imagine it was your family. Imagine it was your family," keep saying that to them.
And you will have this platform, every time you want it, to tell us the state of play.
MANCHIN: Chris, we are not ruling the checks out. Hopefully they will come after Joe Biden is our President and leads us into a better time. Right now, we're just trying to get through the most challenging times this country has faced, in many, many, many years.
CUOMO: Well, on that, everybody can agree. Senator Joe Manchin, again, I will invite you on, every week, to tell people how it's going.
MANCHIN: I will come, Chris. Thank you.
CUOMO: Thank you, Sir, and be well.
Look, you got to work all different sides of the situation because you have to give the platform, so that they can get the attention for what they are trying to motivate. That's OK.
Somebody has a different deal, a better deal, doesn't like the deal? Come on. Make the case, because the status quo is killing us, you know? "Not enough, too much money." People are hungry in this country.
Also developing, in Washington, an alleged bribery for presidential pardon scheme. Did someone try to pay off the White House? And why did a Judge have to force this information out of the hands of the Department of Justice, so the rest of us could know it?
Former U.S. Attorney, for the Southern District of New York, Preet Bharara, next.
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CUOMO: Interesting bit of news, the Department of Justice was forced to tell you about something that is as troubling as it is timely.
The DoJ is actively investigating a bribery scheme focused on obtaining a pardon from the President. A Judge ordered the release of about 20 pages from the case. A lot of it is redacted. But this is a clear indication from the court that people need to know that this is afoot.
What can we tell? There is a "Secret lobbying scheme" and a "Bribery conspiracy" that offered "A substantial political contribution in exchange for a presidential pardon or reprieve of sentence."
Let's dig into this with former U.S. Attorney, Preet Bharara.
One, interesting, that the Judge wanted it out, when the DoJ wanted to keep it quiet. I thought that meant the case was over. But this has been going on since the summer. And how does this conflate or combine with what we are hearing about Rudy and Trump's plans for his own family?
PREET BHARARA, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY, HOST, "STAY TUNED WITH PREET" PODCAST: Well I'd be surprised if they're directly related to Rudy. Trump has relationship with Rudy Giuliani. He has other reasons, perhaps self-interested reasons, why he might want to give a preemptive pardon to Rudy Giuliani.
This scheme that you are describing, about which we know some stuff, but a lot of it has been redacted, as you said, is on behalf of a person, who needs to pay, and needs to offer up some other incentive for the thing to get done.
Look, as you see from the redacted document, the order from the Judge, this thing was written in August - on I think - on or about August 28th of this year. I think it's the case that because the Department of Justice thought
it was sensitive, and it related to people who have not yet been charged, and perhaps, I don't know, because I haven't seen the motion to seal, perhaps because there was a concern that such a revelation in the days before the election would be bad in some way or violate traditional Justice Department policy.
That convinced the Judge to allow this to remain under seal. But I think the Judge was just doing her job. And she is a very well- respected Judge in D.C.
But it will help (ph) in making sure that in America, to the extent possible, unless someone's rights are being prejudiced, or someone's right to a fair trial is being impeded in some way that documents filed in court are public, and get publicly known.
So, I wouldn't read more into it other than that she is doing her job as a person who's defending the openness of our courts.
CUOMO: Right. Well Barr all but pulled the "Comey" during this election, in terms of him saying he was opening an investigation, right in the final weeks and days of it, so I don't know how sensitive they are about that.
But what did you make about his disclosures today? This man has bent over backwards to protect the piffle that came out of Trump's mouth. And today, he says "No, no proof of anything that is fraudulent that would have changed the outcome of this election."
BHARARA: Well he did two things today.
So, that's one thing he did, which interestingly it was a deliberate choice. He has to have known that the President was not going to like it. You see allies of the President are attacking Bill Barr all over the place because it's seen as a betrayal.
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This is the same man, Bill Barr, who on this network, on CNN, with our colleague, Wolf Blitzer, a few months ago, basically said, "I expect, because common sense tells me so, that thousands and thousands of ballots will be fraudulently filled, and sent to the United States, from abroad," with no proof or evidence whatsoever.
And for him to say, in the face of what he knows the President wants, and what the President's other lawyers are doing, Rudy Giuliani and et al, I think it's a deliberate thing for him to have done, and I think it tells you how weak the President's arguments are about fraud in all these states.
The other thing he did, and I don't know if you want to get into it, was reveal, for the first time, another thing that was secret, before the election, that he has appointed John Durham, in Connecticut, to be of Special Counsel status, in connection with the investigation of the origins of the Russia investigation, giving him presumably some additional ability not to be relieved of that duty when the White House changes hands in January.
CUOMO: Why? Why is he not able to be relieved?
BHARARA: Well I think this makes it a little bit harder. I think people are still trying to figure out exactly, if he did it correctly, under the regulations.
There's one regulation that appears to have been violated, which is that a Special Counsel is supposed to come from outside of the Department of Justice. That's what happened with Bob Mueller when he was appointed to be the Special Counsel.
CUOMO: Right. But this guy is an employee.
BHARARA: Yes. He was outside the government. I think there are ways in which you can do it this way. I haven't fully nailed down if it was a proper thing to do or not. But it just - it makes it little bit harder if it was done appropriately.
A Special Counsel is entitled to remain in office, to serve on the job, unless there is good cause to remove, and the Attorney General have to give reasons, written reasons, to Congress and the public as to why that person is being removed. So, it gives an extra measure of protection--
CUOMO: Right.
BHARARA: --presumably, in Bill Barr's head, with respect to John Durham, which is probably something that makes the President happy.
CUOMO: Do me a favor. I don't have time. But I want to just a quick take. Is there an innocent reason to ask for a preemptive pardon?
BHARARA: That's a - that's a great question.
Presumably someone like Rudy Giuliani, who has disparaged his former office, also my former office, knows really well that the Southern District of New York, in its great tradition he led it well, once upon a time, is not going to bring some, as he calls it, BS charge that they can't prove, or don't have a good faith reason to believe they can prove.
And so, someone like Rudy Giuliani who knows that office, and has been a lawyer for a long time, and a prosecutor before that, has to understand that to have a need for a pardon, a preemptive pardon, must mean you feel you are in some jeopardy.
And if he's doing that analysis, and believing he's in some form of jeopardy, there's something to that. I mean he knows what he's done, and he knows what kind of peril he's in.
And knowing those two things, if the reporting is correct, he is asking for a preemptive pardon, an extraordinary thing to ask for, from the President of the United States, you know, do the math.
CUOMO: Lucky for him he is asking the right guy. Preet Bharara, thank you very much for the analysis.
BHARARA: Thanks, Chris.
CUOMO: These are remarkable times. And I keep saying #Remember because the names of these Re-Trump-licans, it's not about hurting them, save the threats, and the "Shoot and go pull him out, and shoot him," save that for them, OK?
For the reasonable, I am just saying if you want things to get better, you can't turn a blind eye to an outgoing president, waging war, and trying to sabotage democracy. So, what's my job? How do we do this, as an agent for you?
Sam Donaldson, my mentor. He has lived through and covered all kinds of catastrophes. I don't know anything like this. Let's talk about the right way for us to do the job, next.
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CUOMO: Some breaking news out of the White House tonight.
Outgoing president, Trump, just held a Christmas reception during COVID. He doesn't care. Many attendees not wearing masks. That's going to be his legacy, somewhere actually coughing, reportedly. That's not even the headline. That's who he is.
Now, what matters, Trump delivered this line to his guests. "It's been an amazing four years. We are trying to do another four years." That's the sabotage of the election con. "Otherwise, I will see you in four years."
Now, that's very important, because even if hyperbolic, even if it's a tease, it gives you a window into why these Re-Trump-licans are so afraid to say anything about his con that they all know is exactly that. So, what do we do about it?
Let's bring in legendary former ABC News Anchor, Sam Donaldson.
How are you, Sir?
SAM DONALDSON, FORMER ANCHOR, ABC NEWS: I'm fine, Chris, as far as I know. A smart alec answer would be in 14 days, we'll know. But as far as I know I am OK.
CUOMO: Good. I'll take it.
So, what are we to do after an unprecedented period of perfidy by people in this Party where they sat silent? How do you cover that going forward?
DONALDSON: Well you have to cover it the way that good reporters, men and women, have done for the past four years, increasingly towards the end of this Trump era. And that is, call a lie a lie. Ask him why he lies. Ask him to explain it. Come, be very aggressive.
I was once known as aggressive. I was a pussy cat, and I could be, because the presidents I covered were gentlemen. They never said, at least to my face, "You should be fired. You're a disgrace to your network." They may have thought it, but they didn't say it. And we, both sides, the press, and the presidents, knew what their roles were, and tried to fulfill them.
But the men and the women who have had to deal with Donald J. Trump, they have had something as unprecedented in our history. I compliment each and every one of them.
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So, give it to him, and give it to his enablers. They've got to come to the Lord if this Party, the Republican Party is going to be reconstituted, and I hope it will be.
CUOMO: But when you hear that line from him tonight, "I'll see you in four years," doesn't that explain why we're going to be in just mired in--
DONALDSON: No.
CUOMO: --opposition?
DONALDSON: We can't be. And, first of all, I don't think he will be back. Oh, he'll be back in the sense that he'll be talking - he'll be talking about the lie that he was elected this time, and he was cheated out of it, and he may say, "I am going to run again."
But don't you think that Tom Cotton, don't you think that Senator Hawley, don't you think that Marco Rubio, don't you think that all those young men of the Party are going to say "Oh, yes. We will wait." No, no!
Now, this Republican Party can reconstitute itself. I hope it is because we need two strong parties. But the first thing it has to do is cut its ties with Donald J. Trump. That will be difficult because the Republican base is his base though it has to be done delicately.
But you've got to keep this man away from any influence from the standpoint of reconstituting your Party, which should go back to its principles, fiscal integrity. Yes, the Republicans were very anxious to make certain we didn't spend
too much money, particularly on safety that unfortunately. But they made deals with the Democrats. And the Democrats made deals with them. And they moved the country forward.
And when Jimmy Carter left office, we had less than $1 trillion of national debt. Now what do you think has happened since? Both parties, but principally the Republican Party in power has cut the taxes, and the Tooth Fairy is not available to pay for it, folks.
You want highways? You want bridges? You want an air system? You want defense? You and I have to pay for it. It's called taxation. But none of the Republican Party has called it in the way, but they're not interested in fiscal integrity. They are interested in, well, money for the rich.
CUOMO: But Sam? Don't you see in McConnell's going so slow right now?
DONALDSON: And this Republican Party needs to be reconstituted.
CUOMO: Don't you see McConnell and his slow-walking right now?
DONALDSON: McConnell--
CUOMO: And not wanting to do relief. Isn't that just a nod to not doing anything the boss doesn't tell him to do?
DONALDSON: I don't think so. I think McConnell is playing a very interesting game called "Georgia," called "Let's get those two Republican senators back. If I don't get them both back, I am no longer the Majority Leader."
So, that's one of the reasons he's not calling out Trump. He's not even acknowledging formally that Trump is not the President-Elect. And the same thing goes for the stimulus.
Now, you would think that McConnell would see if we have a stimulus bill that amounts to something, maybe people in Georgia will say, "But that Trump administration isn't bad. I should support these two senators." That would - might be my tactic. But then no one's asked me.
CUOMO: I asked you because you are the man. Sam Donaldson, I need you back on this show, on a regular basis, so people can understand the right way forward, because that still matters, doing it the right way.
DONALDSON: I'll come when called. I will come when called, my son.
CUOMO: Thank you, Big Brother, be well. Be well.
We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: Today is Giving Tuesday. More than 50 million Americans are going hungry. We haven't seen anything like it since the Great Depression. It's a struggle that we're seeing everywhere, all over the country, even in your backyard, even in mine.
Let me show you something. In the very church where Cristina and I got married, OK, in that basement is where "Heart of the Hamptons" does its work. It's a not-profit organization in South Hampton, where we got married, where we lived for so many years. Volunteers work it, and they've been hit with waves of need, the likes of which they've seen.
This is what they do here. The food comes down the chute. I've sent food down that chute, turkeys, they store all kinds of food, canned goods. And then they pack food bags for people.
In 2019, they gave out 65,000 meals. As of this year, right now, they are already at a 175,000. Just imagine how many more will need help in the coming weeks with the holidays.
Along with food, they get loaded backpacks for school, if they need them closed, utility assistance. These non-profits are being stretched thin, and they need help from us so they can keep giving to others.
The Executive Director for "Heart of the Hamptons" sent me a video. I want you to see the work they are doing. The music in the background, it's all part of there, just keeping spirits up.
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HILTON CROSBY, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, HEART OF THE HAMPTONS: There is so much of a need out here that we are having to purchase a tremendous amount of food.
Previous to pandemic, we were serving about 350 unduplicated households. And then now, we are serving a 1,100. So, we've seen a 300 percent increase in demand for our services.
We have not had to turn anybody away that has come for food just to get. So, the important thing is that we need the funds to be able to keep up this pace for our community.
And the folks that are getting this food are not, you know, toothless, like homeless people or whatever. It's every day Americans like us. And we are all just one tragedy away from needing services such as that Heart of the Hamptons provides. And part of the reason that we don't have photography or video of our food lines or drone images or whatever is because we live in a very small community.
Sometimes, it's hard for people to come here. And we don't want to have one person think that we would exploit their need, to be able to garner more support. So, we really appreciate a video like this, so that we don't have even that one person shy away from our services, and suffer more.
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CUOMO: I love that. I love that. He wouldn't put people who come there on video. He doesn't want to play a shame game. He doesn't even want to play into that stigma. I love that. That's my brother from another, Hilton Crosby. Can't fish worth a damn but because he is always working, doing God's work in our community.
And I'll tell you what. There are people like him all over this country. So, learn more about how you can help. You can go to their website, heartofthehamptons.org. I'll tweet out the link as well. Check it out on my social media.
You can also visit the CNN Impact Your World page, to find other ways to help, OK? That's at CNN.com/impact. Remember, when you give, you always get more.
