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States Face Deadline for Vaccine Plans; Trump Supporters Hold on to Hope; Biden Faces Pressure on Picks; Students Suffering from Shutdowns. Aired 9:30-10a

Aired December 02, 2020 - 09:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[09:30:00]

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: This close to overcoming the first hurdle. That is developing and improving a vaccine. But how are states going to get it into the arms of people who need it and those particularly who need it first. They're facing a Friday deadline to have their vaccine distribution plans ready, but it's really not going to be simple. Hundreds of millions of people we're talking about.

With me now, Dr. Eric Toner, senior scholar at Johns Hopkins Center for Health Security, and Claire Hannan, she's the executive director of the Association of Immunization Managers.

Thanks to both of you.

Simple question to you, Dr. Toner, to begin, are states ready to distribute these vaccines?

DR. ERIC TONER, SENIOR SCHOLAR, JOHNS HOPKINS CENTER FOR HEALTH SECURITY: Well, I think states are getting ready. They've been working on their plans now for a couple months. They've been waiting for guidance from the CDC, which they've now gotten, at least for the very first phase of the rollout. So they're working through it but there are a lot of details they have to work through.

SCIUTTO: Claire Hannan, you make the point that states need more than $8 billion to get the infrastructure in place, the staff, et cetera, to reliably distribute this to hundreds of millions of Americans, right, eventually. Do they have that money and, if not, is it coming?

CLAIRE HANNAN, EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, ASSOCIATION FOR IMMUNIZATION MANAGERS: They don't currently have the money. We hope that it's coming. We do have strong support on both sides of the aisle, both the Senate and the House, the funding's just been held up. So we do hope that the funding is coming.

You know, states -- we need all hands on deck to do this. We need all the providers we can get. We need staffing to enroll the providers and to run the clinics. Yes, when we get to that point where we've got robust supply, we want to make sure we get it to every American that wants it as efficiently as possible and the states need the funding to do that.

SCIUTTO: Dr. Toner, is there any precedent in this country for quickly and reliably vaccinating tens of millions of -- I mean there are 300 million people in the country, more than 300 million people in the country. Is there any precedent for doing this well?

TONER: Well, probably the best precedent to look back to is the 2009 influenza pandemic where we rolled out a vaccine to that new strain over a relatively short period of time. And it -- it was complicated and it was complicated particularly by the fact that there were delays in the vaccine manufacture and delivery. So by the time the vaccine was delivered, the pandemic had already peaked.

So it was a complicated issue. It was very difficult for the states, for the hospitals, for health care providers. So I think there are going to be a lot of issues that come up as we do the distribution at the ground level, getting the vaccine that last mile as we say.

SCIUTTO: Claire, we have a problem in this country, right. You really have two worlds, two realities as to the seriousness of this pandemic. You have many states taking it seriously. You have other states, run chiefly by Republican lawmakers, who are denying the seriousness of this, who are refusing to take steps like mask mandates, et cetera.

I wonder, do you see a difference among those states in their plans for now distributing the vaccine given that so many have just dismissed the seriousness of this?

HANNAN: I really don't. I mean in our community we work together, red states sharing with blue states, planning to get this vaccine out. And, you know, the good thing about the vaccine is it's not political. It's meant for everyone. It saves lives, you know, no matter which political party you affiliate with. You know, vaccination has never been political. So I think states are working hard.

It's really an unprecedented collaboration between the federal government, states and locals and the private sector. We have pharmacies, CVS and Walgreens going to be vaccinating in long term care facilities. There's really nothing political about the vaccine. So that's good news.

Well, you know, I appreciate your hope there, but, Dr. Toner, I wonder if you agree because what is political -- I mean facts have become political in this pandemic. I mean you have leaders, including the president, who continue to cast doubt on the seriousness. And that's been reflected in the percentage of people who say they're willing to take the vaccine. Are you worried, Dr. Toner, that participation rates will suffer as a result of that disinformation?

TONER: Well, I think it's important to realize that when those -- when people are asked that question in polls, vaccines were still a theoretical construct and not an actual product that they could take. I think there will be less vaccine hesitancy than we are afraid of right now, but it's all about communication. We have to communicate consistently and broadly and with many different voices. SCIUTTO: Claire, for folks watching right now who are not health care

workers, who are not living in a nursing home, which are going to be the first two groups to get these vaccinations, when can the rest of us expect to reliably have this available to ourselves and our family?

[09:35:14]

Your best guess at this point.

HANNAN: Yes, I mean that's the question everyone's asking. And it can't come soon enough, right? I know that.

I mean my best guess would be in the spring. I mean it really depends on the supply that's coming out, but everything looks so good right now, the safety and the efficacy of the vaccine and, you know, production will continue. We could have additional candidates getting authorized. So my best guess is in the springtime that the vaccine would be available for every American.

SCIUTTO: Well, from your lips to God's ears. It does look that way. And it's a remarkable, positive development.

Well, Dr. Toner, Claire Hannan, thanks so much for the work you do.

HANNAN: Thank you so much Jim.

TONER: You're very welcome. Thank you.

SCIUTTO: A top Georgia election official, a Republican, pleading for the president to, quote, stop inciting acts of violence. If you haven't seen this -- these comments, you really should. But the president's claims of election fraud are resonating with his supporters in that state. We're going to hear from some of them.

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[09:40:42]

SCIUTTO: President Trump lost the election by a margin now nearly 7 million votes, but he is clearly not losing confidence, or at least showing it, telling a group gathered for a White House Christmas Party last night, quote, we are trying to do another four years, otherwise I'll see you in four years.

But the bottom line is the president's attacks on our democracy and claims of voter fraud are having a real impact with some Americans. Here's one of Georgia's top election officials, a Republican.

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABRIEL STERLING (R), GEORGIA VOTING SYSTEMS MANAGER: This is the backbone of democracy and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicit in this. Stop inspiring people to commit potential acts of violence. Someone's

going to get hurt. Someone's going to get shot. Someone's going to get killed.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

SCIUTTO: Complicit.

The president and the vice president are set to visit Georgia just days from now as the state closes in on two critical Senate runoff races. And for some Trump supporters in the state, this presidential election isn't over either in their minds.

CNN's Gary Tuchman spoke to some of them.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GARY TUCHMAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice over): In many American neighborhoods, the beginning of December still looks like the beginning of November. Trump campaign signs, flags, banners, on houses, on barns, on fences, on trees. All left up by Trump voters who in many cases believe giving up on their signs means giving up on their president.

Julie Darnell lives in Cherokee County, Georgia, just north of Atlanta.

TUCHMAN (on camera): You still have up a lot of signs and flags for Donald Trump and Mike Pence. The election was November 3rd. How come the signs are still up?

JULIE DARNELL, TRUMP VOTER: And they're going to stay up to the end, to the very end. I think he's going to come through, you know?

TUCHMAN: What's going to come through?

DARNELL: I think he's going to turn it around. I think he's going to turn it around. I think we got cheated out of the election and I -- and I'm sticking with him.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Donald Trump has a lot of loyal supporters here. He received 69 percent of this county's vote. So you will find a lot of signs here that are still up. J.D. Ortega says during the campaign some of his Trump signs were stolen, so he put other signs high in trees and that's where they will remain for now.

J.D. ORTEGA, TRUMP VOTER: Well, they're still up because I'm hopeful, you know, I'm hoping that something's going to come out of these investigations. I'm hoping that something will turn the tide and I'm just -- I'm a big supporter and --

TUCHMAN (on camera): You think Donald Trump can still be president?

ORTEGA: And I'm hoping that he can still be president, yes, I absolutely am. TUCHMAN (voice over): But then there is reality. The formal

certifications of the results in battleground states, the Trump attorney's failures in courtrooms throughout the country to prove what the president claims was a fraudulent, rigged election.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Does it concern you, though, that the president and others say there is evidence but it's not being presented in the courtroom?

ORTEGA: That does concern me. I definitely --

TUCHMAN: Why do you think that is?

ORTEGA: I don't know. I don't know all the ins and outs of what he's got going on. So it does concern me that it hasn't come to light yet.

TUCHMAN (voice over): The lack of evidence presented by the Trump lawyers is not comforting to many still flying the Trump flag, including Roger, who didn't want his face shown, but did want to tell us he nevertheless feels Donald Trump could win the election.

TUCHMAN (on camera): And why? Other than him saying it.

ROGER: Just anecdotally, like I said, it's -- it's -- it's hard to say. We have so many --

TUCHMAN: But isn't it maybe -- is it may be wishful thinking on your part as opposed to --

ROGER: Sure. Sure. Absolutely.

DARNELL: America voted Joe Biden in, then Joe Biden should be in. But I think it all should be fair. I think it all should be fair.

TUCHMAN: Does it bother you that you haven't seen any evidence of it, that it hasn't been presented, and that maybe you're being tricked, that maybe this man just wants to stay in office so badly he's going to keep saying it but not show any evidence proving it?

DARNELL: Bother me? I don't -- I don't know why he would want the office the way they've done him.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Many people still sporting the signs look at post-election Trump as a political martyr.

TUCHMAN (on camera): Each person we've talked to here recognizes that for every day that goes by, things get more complicated for Mr. Trump. But these are true believers who refuse to stop believing.

Do you think, though, it's possible that America elected Joe Biden to be the next president? I mean, I know you don't want that to have happened.

DARNELL: Possible. Possible. Not probable. Possible.

TUCHMAN (voice over): Gary Tuchman, CNN, Cherokee County, Georgia. (END VIDEOTAPE)

[09:45:04]

SCIUTTO: Well, just weeks into his transition and President-elect Joe Biden has come under scrutiny for who he is picking and not picking to join his team. The president-elect facing some pressure to appoint more minorities to senior roles in his administration.

Jessica Dean joins me now from Biden's home base in Wilmington, Delaware.

Jessica, are those criticisms landing?

JESSICA DEAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning to you, Jim.

Certainly Joe Biden said all along he wanted a cabinet that looks like America. And we have seen him roll out the beginnings of his cabinet nominees, his appointees. But "The New York Times" is reporting that seven civil rights groups are reaching out to Biden and his transition team. They want to talk with President-elect Biden and put pressure on him to name African-Americans to the remaining high profile cabinet posts.

This also comes as we're hearing from one of Biden's most ardent supporters and arguably the man who did turn the tide for him, he did turn the tide for him in South Carolina. Congressman Jim Clyburn has expressed that he wants to see more black people filling the roles at the top tiers of the Biden administration. He is on the record saying that as well.

And we're also hearing that the Congressional Hispanic Caucus has sent a letter to the Biden transition team imploring them to select New Mexico Governor Michelle Lujan Grisham to head up Health and Human Services. Of course that's going to be a key agency as they look to get their arms around the coronavirus pandemic. And we do know that she is in contention for that role.

But all of this as we look to see who Biden will be filling these roles with. Jim, a lot of pressure from the outside. A lot of people wanting to talk to the transition team, wanting to talk to the president-elect himself. We will see if that happens.

SCIUTTO: Jessica Dean, there's always jockeying, thanks very much.

Well, President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris will join Jake Tapper for their first joint interview since winning the White House. CNN's special event tomorrow night, 9:00 Eastern, only here on CNN.

Well, racial and economic disparities have long existed in America's schools. Now new research shows that the coronavirus pandemic has made those divisions worse.

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[09:51:46]

SCIUTTO: A sad cost to this pandemic, marginalized students are falling even further behind academically because of remote learning during the pandemic. A new study by the national nonprofit group found black and Hispanic children and those from low-income families suffered the most when schools shut down as a result of the outbreak.

Evan McMorris-Santoro is live in New York with more details on the report.

And, Evan, there was great concern about this going in and now the data is bearing it out.

EVAN MCMORRIS-SANTORO, CNN CORRESPONDENT: That's right, Jim. I've been talking to educators and parents and students since this pandemic began about education and the big fear was that those who were already having trouble, those who were already on the downside of the opportunities available to school students, would be in worse shape after the pandemic and during the pandemic. And now we're seeing some data that is bearing that out.

Let's talk about this study. It's done by the NWEA, which is a non- profit organization that administers this thing called the MAP test to millions of students between the ages of like K-12. And this new data is for students between the ages of third and eighth grade in 46 states, about 4 million students.

And, overall, students performed about the same in reading as they did in the previous year, but we saw that those black and Hispanic students had a dip in some of their scores. And also we saw that all students had been struggling with math a bit.

Now, some of these numbers are not as bad as people thought that they might be when they were preparing for this school year, but one of the dangers of this study that the researchers will tell you is that it's not just what numbers are in this study but what numbers are not in this study, that there are millions of students who just didn't take these tests and so they don't have the data.

And researchers don't really know why those tests weren't taken. Was is because students weren't logging on, couldn't get on, just aren't showing up to school anymore? They don't really know. And it's those students, that extra data that we're looking for as we try to find out more about how this school year has been going. But this early data suggests that we're going to be dealing with the fallout from this pandemic on education, especially on the hardest-hit students for a long time, Jim.

SCIUTTO: Yes. Yes, and I know there have been indications about no- show data being really alarming in some districts.

What about grades? I mean are we noticing -- is that a good measure of the effect of all this?

MCMORRIS-SANTORO: Just another one of those areas where we are starting to see data finally come in. Another one of those areas where anecdotally people were worried about what would happen this school year. And we're seeing, in a number of large districts across the country, huge increases in fs, in failing grades from students.

Now, a thing that you need to keep in mind about that is that this particular semester was very different than the first part of the pandemic when students were kind of in an emergency situation, it was basically an extended snow day. They went to school from home but the grades didn't really count. There's a lot of pass/fail. They weren't doing the same amount of grading as they were in the rest of the school year.

When this semester began, the idea was that you could do normal school. That was the hope. That was what schools were trying to do is get back to some of those grades and get back to some of those performance measures. And those numbers are coming in.

And particularly for high school students, we're seeing in some districts like in Fairfax County, Virginia, and in -- in St. Paul, Minnesota, we're seeing a rise in fs that teachers are hoping they can turn around but they're having -- they're planning on dealing with when the school year gets back to normal, maybe after a vaccine, Jim.

[09:55:14]

SCIUTTO: Oh, just so sad. Lasting impact for so many families.

Evan McMorris-Santoro, thanks very much.

Well, days from now, the U.K. will begin vaccinating its citizens and they become the first western country to approve a coronavirus vaccine. We'll have news coming up.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

SCIUTTO: A very good Wednesday morning to you. I'm Jim Sciutto. Poppy has the week off.

There is some good news today. The same day we are learning the Coronavirus Task Force is warning states the country's in a dangerous place, there is a breakthrough and it's bringing new hope in this pandemic. The U.K. has just approved Pfizer's corona vaccine for emergency use.

[10:00:05]

Hundreds could begin receiving that vaccine as soon as next week.