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United Kingdom Approves Pfizer Vaccine and Plans for Distribution before U.S.; CDC Recommends Frontline Medical Workers and People in Nursing Homes Receive Coronavirus Vaccine First; CDC Lowers Quarantine Period for Coronavirus Exposure to Seven to Ten Days; Source: Trump Discussing Preemptively Pardoning His Children, Kushner & Giuliani. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 02, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: The vaccine first in the United States with the head of the CDC advisory board that just voted on the recommendation.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Also breaking overnight, a potential pardon spree in the final weeks of the Trump administration. CNN learning the president is considering preemptive pardons for his immediate family after his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani also unsealed court records revealing the Justice Department is investigating a potential crime related to the funneling of money into the White House or a related political committee in exchange for pardons. And Attorney General Bill Barr breaking with the president, shooting down claims of widespread voter fraud in the 2020 election.

A lot to get to this morning, obviously. Let's begin our coverage with CNN's Max Foster who is live in London with this breaking coronavirus vaccine news. Max, good morning.

MAX FOSTER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT: Erica, huge excitement here in Downing Street. The British equivalent of the FDA approved this vaccine from Pfizer earlier this morning. That allows the government to start rolling the vaccine out here in the U.K. So 800,000 doses currently on their way from the Pfizer factory in Belgium to the U.K., millions more in the pipeline we're told. Once they get here, they will be taken to hospitals and injections will start.

There's a list of priority that was published today. At the front of the line for this vaccine are residents of care homes, workers in care homes, and then the over-80s and frontline health workers. A big test, though, Britain will be testing for the first time the transport system, because the Pfizer vaccine has to be kept at minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit all the way over, so they developed these special cases carrying dry ice. Will it work? Won't it work? The world will be watching.

Also Boris Johnson warning that it will take probably six months for the entire nation to be vaccinated, so at the moment people have to stay safe and stick to the rules. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

BORIS JOHNSON, U.K. PRIME MINISTER: I think it is very important at this stage for us all to recognize that this is unquestionably good news, it's very, very good news. But it is by no means the end of the story. It is not the end of our national struggle against coronavirus, and that is why it's very important that the package of moderate but tough measures that the House voted for last night, the tiering system, is followed across the country, because that's how we will continue to beat the virus.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOSTER: So hope is there, but keep wearing a mask, and keeping your distance, that's the message from the British government.

BERMAN: Good advice for everyone in the world at this point, especially as the United States is seeing some of its worst numbers yet. Max Foster, thank you very much for that report.

Joining us know is Dr. Jose Romero. He is the chair of the CDC's advisory committee on immobilization practices, which just issued its recommendations for who gets the vaccine first here in the United States. But first, Dr. Romero, I just want to ask you, you're waking up like the rest of us to the news that the United Kingdom has granted emergency authorization for the Pfizer vaccine. You're in the middle of this. What's your reaction?

DR. JOSE ROMERO, CHAIR, CDC ADVISORY COMMITTEE ON IMMUNIZATION PRACTICES: I'm very pleased that they will be receiving vaccine. I think it's an important aspect in bringing this pandemic under control. We're interested to see, I'm personally interested to see how well they can deliver it, and how their transport systems, the dry ice trays that hold this vaccine, function in the real world.

BERMAN: I was going to ask you that, because they are about a week or so ahead probably of where the United States is. So what specifically do you think we can learn from them over the next 10 days?

ROMERO: I think what we'll learn principally is how this transport system works, the dry ice transport system. Does it keep the vaccine cold? Are there any issues involved in getting the vaccine out from a central point into the public sector? We can learn from that and adjust our plans as necessary.

BERMAN: So obviously you made the decision yesterday to recommend that the frontline medical workers and people associated with treating people with coronavirus get the vaccine first, also people in nursing homes. That's been pretty well covered. I guess what I want to ask is about the next group of people. How much discussion was there about who gets the vaccine next?

ROMERO: So, yes, yesterday a group of 14 members of the ACIP made a vote and, as you said it's approved for those groups. We have not yet begun our in-depth discussions about the next groups, and the next groups that we have scheduled for discussions are essential workers, those workers that keep our society going, and that includes postal workers, that includes individuals in meat packing plants, grocers, things like that. Then other groups are individuals 65 and older, and those persons with multiple comorbidities, multiple conditions that we know are associated with adverse outcome if you are infected with COVID.

Our deliberations will begin starting this week, as a matter of fact, tomorrow we have another meeting.

[08:05:3]

We have a very intense schedule before us in order to given to make recommendations for this and other issues related to COVID vaccines.

BERMAN: So that's the who will be in group 1-b, if you will. When would those people, in theory, begin to be able to receive the vaccine?

ROMERO: Yes, I think that is going to depend on when the FDA licenses the vaccine. We know that the FDA is scheduled for a meeting next week on the 10th. There will be a vote from their advisory committee, and then that vote will go forward to the director of the FDA for approval. And then from there we think that we'll see shipping within 24 to 48 hours after that. And then once it's in the states, the states will need to make the decision when to begin to immunize. So somewhere around 10 days to 14 days.

BERMAN: That's for group 1-a. That's for the frontline medical workers in the nursing homes. What I guess I was asking is beyond that, beyond that group maybe receiving it the middle of this month, when might the next group anticipate being able to get the vaccine?

ROMERO: The plan that we have been told is that we will try to immunize everybody in phase one, 1-a, 1-b, and 1-c, that is that immediate high-risk groups, and from then go on to other groups. So I believe we would probably move on to a 1-b somewhere next month if enough vaccines are available.

BERMAN: Dr. Romero, we appreciate the work you're doing. I know the nose is to the grindstone, there is so much to do. This is all happening so fast. In some ways this is a miracle of science, it really is. We've never seen anything quite like this, and I appreciate you being with us this morning.

ROMERO: Thank you. My pleasure.

BERMAN: Erica?

HILL: Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. It is, as John just pointed out, this really is a medical miracle, the fact that we have gotten to this place in a matter of months, a process that normally takes a matter of years. One of the things that stood out that Dr. Romero just said, Sanjay, is one of the things he's going to be looking at is he'll be watching to see how this transportation, this transport plan works in the U.K. and whether adjustments will be needed here in the U.S. This is actually a really delicate endeavor.

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think that that's one of the advantages, I guess, of having somebody else go first. There are going to be some kinks, everyone is anticipating, in this whole process, because we're talking about a type of vaccine that has never been used outside a clinical trial in humans before. And we're talking about a really, really remarkable distribution process in terms of what it's going to need for cold storage.

So there's all sorts of plans in place. We've been reporting on that for some time now. But we're going to see this unfold for real. It's going to go from the theoretical to the real in just a matter of days, obviously, in the U.K. and probably a matter of weeks here in the United States. So it's going to be really interesting.

I can tell you even, if you look at the first two groups to be in line, people who live in long-term fair facilities and health care workers, they both are in institutions, right. They are in places that may be able to accommodate the vaccine as opposed to having the general population go and get vaccinated in other places, that may seem like a very procedural pragmatic sort of thing, but it makes a difference in terms of actually getting people vaccinated. How will it roll out after that? We're all going to learn this together.

BERMAN: Sanjay, I'm so glad you said that, because I think one of the basic questions people have is where do I go to get the shot, and I don't think there is a clear answer to that necessarily yet, is there?

GUPTA: No, there really isn't. We've been talking to a lot of these pharmacies about their plans for cold storage, whether they're going to create their own infrastructure or they're going to use the Pfizer cold storage systems within pharmacies, within hospitals, within clinics. And we're hearing different things from different folks.

And I think that wasn't surprising because even based on what Dr. Romero was saying, ACIP, the committee that he was talking about now makes these recommendations, and states now take these recommendations and basically figure out what they're going to do with it. For example, even at the hospital where I work, once Georgia makes a decision on terms of how they're going to distribute vaccine, the Emory Healthcare System may say, well, OK, here is how we're going to triage that vaccine within our institution. So there's lots of sort of sub-decisions that need to get made that may vary not only by state but by institutions within those states.

HILL: And just to follow up on that, correct me if I'm wrong, but the way I understand it, we know that Walgreens and CVS are going to be a big part of this when it comes to those residents in nursing homes, so they will actually be sending people into the nursing homes, is that correct?

GUPTA: That's right. That's what it sounds like. It may vary in different places because some long-term care facilities may have different resources available, but I do think you're right. For the Pfizer vaccine in particular, which requires an entirely new cold storage system, that's likely to be the case. [08:10:01]

With Moderna, you may be able to rely on more of the existing infrastructure. And then other vaccines that may be coming. We still talk about Johnson & Johnson and AstraZeneca, for example. My sources tell me that possibly in January we could have authorization on those. Obviously, that's some time away, but they don't require as significant the cold storage, more normal refrigeration. So I think it may vary depending on where you are in the country and what your capabilities are right now.

BERMAN: So Sanjay, the vaccine is still days away and weeks away, and for most of us, months away, let's be clear about that. But there are things happening right now that have a direct impact on our lives. First of all, the pandemic is an awful place right now with hospitalizations reaching a record level, but also, we're getting new recommendations about quarantine restrictions, shortening the period which you have to stay home from 14 days to either seven or 10 days. Explain what's going on here and explain the significance.

GUPTA: I think this is potentially very significant. I'm glad this isn't getting lost. You keep in mind at the beginning of this, you know, people were being conservative, how long between the time of exposure between the time someone would actually develop the COVID -- develop COVID, what was the time frame. And 14 days was sort of being a conservative estimate, trying to get everybody, encompass as many people. But we have known for some time that typically if people are going to develop symptoms, it typically occurs within five days. That's when they would develop symptoms or test positive.

So what the CDC is now saying, these guidelines I checked this morning are not yet on their website but are likely to be there sometime soon, they're saying that, look, we can shorten that time period. If you have had an exposure, you still need to quarantine, but it can be as short as seven days now if you've had a negative test, 10 days if you haven't had a test.

So this is important. You think about kids in school who may have had a known exposure, you get a call, and what kids in school are typically told is 14 days is how long you need to now quarantine. People at workplaces and all these various places in our society. If you can shorten that to seven days that's obviously significant for all those various members. Obviously some of that is going to be predicated on testing, otherwise it would be 10 days. Still shorter, but this is where we've been headed for some time.

HILL: Sanjay, always appreciate t great to see you this morning. Thank you.

GUPTA: You got it.

HILL: And Sanjay will answer more of your coronavirus questions at a special coronavirus town hall with Anderson Cooper. They're tackling your vaccine questions specifically. That's right here on CNN, Friday night, 9:00 p.m. eastern. There is more breaking news this morning, a source telling CNN

president trump is discussing preemptive pardons for some of his children, his son-in-law and Rudy Giuliani. Why? We'll discuss next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:16:22]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, a source tells CNN that President Trump has discussed with his advisers preemptive pardons to several people close to him, very close to him, his children Don Jr., Eric and Ivanka Trump, son-in-law Jared Kushner and then, of course, his personal attorney Rudy Giuliani.

The story was first reported in "The New York Times."

Joining us now CNN political analyst David Gregory. Also with us, CNN senior legal analyst and former federal prosecutor, Laura Coates.

Laura, the president has broad powers when it comes to a pardon. But when you pardon someone -- we say he's considering preemptive pardons -- do you have to pardon them for something? Do you have to pardon them for an allegation that has already been made or can you pardon them in advance of any allegation?

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST: Well, you know, the odd thing for people to know and, of course, we're talking about federal pardons only, federal crimes that could be committed or conduct that could lead to it, the president actually has power to preemptively do it, but there has to be a temporal time constraint here. You can't just get a get out of jail free card for the rest of your days.

When Gerald Ford pardoned the resigned President Nixon, it was for conduct that occurred during a specific window of time, from the time of his inauguration to resignation, period. So, a preemptive pardon is about conduct that has not occurred but not prospective conduct even if it has not charged yet.

And so, you have that time constraint there that must be followed.

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: So, there's a time constraint. The other thing that was remarkable and we were talking about this morning, David, with Maggie Haberman, you know, who broke the story -- why? Why Donald Trump's adult children would be considered for these preemptive pardons?

And as she pointed out, really what they're learning in their reporting is this is about the president's fear of retaliation from a Biden administration, David. That this is -- I guess this is the way maybe the president does business in terms of retaliation, so he's expecting to come back. And I think that is remarkable in itself.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I think his mindset is that there was retaliation for him winning the presidency and, again, in his mind, you know, that they were illegitimate investigations into Russian interference, the Mueller probe, going into impeachment, and that the Biden administration would play by those same rules.

Now, those are not -- there is no basis for that level of paranoia that the president has, but that's clearly how he's thinking about it. Let's also be clear this is not someone who has been concerned about the political ramifications of pardons, or -- you know, if you think about Mike Flynn and you think about Roger Stone, you know, pardons generally tend to create a lot of reactions of, oh, that's a disgrace and that was horrible politics and how could they, you know, do that. But again, this president has not been worried about that, even when he was, you know, in the middle of reelection.

BERMAN: So, Laura, just a couple legal questions here, again, just to follow up very quickly and precisely. When the president grants a pardon, he doesn't have to say I pardon you for doing this, he can say I just pardon you for being alive for four years and anything you did while you were alive for the previous four years, you're off scot-free from a federal sense, yes?

COATES: Well, not in so many words, but in essence, yes, John, in the sense that he can pardon behavior that can lead to criminal charges being made. He can pardon somebody for really any reason. It's what you know about is being as good to be the king.

But again, it's not a get out of jail free card for the rest of one's days.

BERMAN: Sure.

COATES: He couldn't get a pardon preemptively for conduct and 20 years from now to exhaust the statement he has made shoot someone on Fifth Avenue and get away with no accountability.

[08:20:06]

It's about conduct during the time which the president has power to pardon and it has to be -- of course, puts him at a disadvantage, John, because he may have no idea what conduct is being investigated at all.

BERMAN: Well --

GREGORY: John, I have a question.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

GREGORY: I wonder if this is kind of analogous to what President Carter did with servicemen from Vietnam or draftees who evaded the draft because it was saying here is a blanket immunity essentially for a period of time, you know, if you were in the White House, you were doing business. Would that be more analogous here?

BERMAN: It would be except that's for evading the draft. That's for doing something.

GREGORY: Doing something, correct. BERMAN: As opposed to saying, look, maybe you j walked, maybe you did

shoot someone on Fifth Avenue having it be a federal crime, whatever you did during this time, whether it was evade the draft or j walk or murder someone, you're pardoned for.

So, I think that's the subtle difference but I think the point Laura is making the answer is yes you can do it, you just can't do it in advance.

As for Rudy Giuliani, Laura, that's a whole others separate issue because we do know there has been a federal investigation that has involved Rudy Giuliani. We also know from reporting, Maggie Haberman has reported, CNN has reported, Rudy Giuliani has talked about being pardoned with the president of the United States.

And I guess, yes, it might be legal, the president might have the power to do it, but man, oh man, you're talking about a guy right now that is arguing that the election should be overturned to help the president at the same time he is talking about being pardoned by that president. That's something.

COATES: I mean, talk about a form of pay-for-play here. I mean, the idea that we thought with Michael Flynn was no longer to be cooperative, we wondered, would he think there may be a pardon on the horizon and he was going to go all in full throttle? You think about the same things like Rudy Giuliani to a certain extent.

But remember, Giuliani also has a connection to current actual investigations in the SDNY with Lev Parnas and the like, about different relations with Ukraine.

And so, you have things that are actually on the legal horizon for him and could have a direct relationship to the president wanting to pardon.

The children of Donald Trump as well, of course, as a part in the Trump organization the New York state and, of course, SDNY potentially has investigations that could have tentacles that reach as far as there. So, it's not quite as perspective as total guesswork in saying, I'm just going to pardon you just because you respirate.

I think the issue here is, what does the president really know? And the real connection here for everyone to look at is, I don't think this president is going to have a smooth sailing experience following his administration because even if he could extend his pardon power willy-nilly at his leisure, that only relates to the federal crimes and we already know that the state prosecutors have been chomping at the bit to investigate him, tax returns issues and anything else that may occur.

And so, he is not going to be able to evade state-level prosecutions if they are out there for himself or anyone in his inner orbit if they so choose to do so.

HILL: You know, there is also this other reporting about the DOJ now investigating a potential bribery scheme, right, for a Trump pardon. I just want to read a part of this from the judge.

A bribery conspiracy scheme in which redacted would offer a substantial political contribution in exchange for a presidential pardon or reprieve of sentence for redacted using redacted as intermediaries to deliver the proposed bribe. This bribery for pardon scheme, you know, as was pointed out earlier on the broadcast, there is only one person who can grant that pardon and so, it's fascinating that we not only have access to these unsealed documents even though they are redacted, but only the president can grant that pardon, David.

GREGORY: That's right, and, you know, that's quite a charge that's being investigated, particularly in light of the fact that one really only needed to demonstrate loyalty to get the president's pardon up until now, but this is a level of illegality that would be beyond that and would suggest that there were perhaps signals sent that, hey, you know, we're open for business here. But we don't know the nature of the allegations yet, but again, I think it's worth underscoring that the president has been very willing to pardon people just by being kind of loyal foot soldiers in his political army. This goes way beyond that.

BERMAN: David, can I ask you quickly about William Barr, the attorney general who yesterday we learned from A, he appointed John Durham as special counsel but, B, he told the "Associated Press" he hasn't seen any evidence, the DOJ has found no evidence of widespread voter fraud and specifically nothing to substantiate the president's bogus claims that these machines somehow reversed votes.

GREGORY: It's -- look, it's quite significant and I think at the end of this administration, the fact that the president has turned on his attorney general, complaining that he hasn't come through for him tells you something. I think that, you know, the road that Barr has followed where he has been a guy who has been loyal to this president and has done his bidding in many instances.

[08:25:09]

Also in some of these crucial areas has stood up for the institution and not gone any farther, much to the disappointment of his number one -- not his client, but his president.

BERMAN: David Gregory, Laura Coates, thanks so much for helping us understand this news barrage we woke up to this morning. Appreciate it.

GREGORY: Thanks.

BERMAN: So, President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris sit down for their first joint interview and they do so with our Jake Tapper. Be sure to catch a CNN special event tomorrow night at 9:00 p.m., only on CNN.

All right. A lot of people suffering this morning, what is Congress going to do about it? There has been a bipartisan proposal for a new relief package. Mitch McConnell so far not biting. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking this morning, pharmaceutical giant Pfizer and its German partner BioNTech received approval from the United Kingdom for its coronavirus vaccine. The U.K. government says it plans to begin vaccinations next week.

Obviously, this is a major development, the United States could be just a week or so behind.

CNN's Frederik Pleitgen live.