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Key Model Projects U.S. Deaths Will Double To Nearly 540,000 By April; CNN Reality Check: President Trump Raising Millions While Refusing To Concede; Jewish Doctor's Dilemma Treating Patient With Nazi Tattoos. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 04, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:38]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: And when Dr. Fauci says we have a vaccine that is safe, that's the moment in which I will stand before the public and receive it.

Look, part of what has to happen Jake -- and you know as well as I do, people have lost faith in the ability of the vaccine to work. Already, the numbers are really staggeringly low. And it matters what a president and a vice president do.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: That was President-elect Joe Biden telling CNN's Jake Tapper that he will roll up his sleeve for a coronavirus vaccine when Dr. Fauci says it's time to do so. He will join three past presidents who are pledging to do the same thing.

Thursday was the worst day yet of the pandemic. The U.S. again smashing every record for reported deaths, hospitalizations, and new cases. A key model that the White House relies on that we report on a lot is now forecasting the death toll in the U.S. will nearly double to more than half a million people by April.

Joining us now is CNN chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, good morning. Great to see you.

And so, the vaccines are coming and yet, the death toll will be doubling by April. Explain that.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean, part of the issue is that it's going to take some time for these vaccines to get out there. You know, we've been talking about the -- celebrating the idea that there's probably going to be an authorization of two vaccines.

But, you know, it's one of these things that typically, you'd build up a supply of the vaccines and then start distributing over a period of time. They're going to distribute as quickly as possible. But for the vast majority of people, they're really not going to be able to get vaccinated until next summer. So that's part of the issue.

But you've also got to conceptually think about how vaccines really work in the general population. You try and vaccinate more and more people and that makes it harder for the virus to find willing hosts -- vaccinated person, vaccinated person, unvaccinated person. As you get more and more people who are vaccinated to that -- what we call herd immunity -- 60 to 70 percent, that's when you start to see the really dramatic impact of vaccines on a society.

And that's, again, really June, perhaps July until you get that. It takes a while to get vaccinated. It takes another week or so to actually become immune.

When I looked at the models, there is some impact of the vaccines that about 30 percent of the country being inoculated, but it doesn't happen right away. It's not like a surgical strike on this, as would be masks or stay-at-home orders -- things like that.

[07:35:08]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: And, in fact, the model gives a hard number as a projection. If the vaccine is rolled out really well, they say 11,000 lives will be saved by April first. I don't want to suggest 11,000 lives. Eleven thousand lives is a lot of people to be saved but it may not be as many as people thought by April first.

They do say that increased mask-wearing could save more than 60,000 lives by April first, which just goes to show how important mask- wearing is. And it comes at the same time that we heard the president- elect, Sanjay, say that he's going to ask all Americans for 100 days to wear masks.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: What kind of impact do you think all that has?

GUPTA: I think -- you know, we have plenty of evidence on this now. And, you know, I mean, I've always been the first to say that we're learning together over this last year about all these things, including the benefit of masks on a large society in the middle of a novel coronavirus pandemic. I mean, we didn't know for certain when people -- when it became clear that people could spread this even if they didn't have symptoms, I think the idea of masking became very clear.

But, you know, I've looked at this data globally, I've looked at this data nationally, hyper-locally. We've seen that in places that got into trouble in Arizona and Delaware, once they put mask mandates into place you had a pretty dramatic change.

I can show you Columbus, Georgia. This is another place that got into trouble. They had a mask mandate that went into place at one point. And you saw -- I don't know if we have the graph -- you saw how the numbers of daily cases came down for a period of time. They took the mask mandate off and the cases went right back up.

I mean, it is very clear now in communities or across nations that blue line in the middle is where they took the mask mandate off. That's the one to really pay attention to. And within a few weeks, you see it going back up. At the far left, as soon as the mask mandate went into place, you see the numbers coming down.

My point is it's a much more directly and quickly impactful sort of thing.

So the 100-day -- you know, 100 days is a little bit of a political thing -- the first 100 days of office. You'd see impact, as we see in all these models, within a month -- within a few weeks.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, "The New York Times" has this interactive exercise that you can do on their Web site where you plug in your details of where you live, your age, your job, your health, and then it tells you where you are in line.

I'm 269th million in line for the vaccine, OK? Two hundred sixty-nine million people are in front of me, OK? But that's OK because if I have to wait until June, the case levels are still going to come down. I mean, it's still going to benefit me that people are starting to be vaccinated this month.

GUPTA: Right, right. And I'll give you my place in line for sure, Alisyn -- if you want that -- in case I'm ahead of you.

CAMEROTA: Thank you.

GUPTA: I don't -- I don't even know that I am.

But, yes, you will see -- because, you know, once you get to that 60- 70 percent or even earlier -- that 30 percent -- you are going to see impact. I mean, I hope people can sort of understand this visual.

We talk about herd immunity. It's the idea that the people around me are protecting me. I've got enough people around me who are vaccinated, that's going to protect me. We think about that a lot with children. And actually, the term comes from livestock.

But you're absolutely right, Alisyn. There is benefit for you getting the vaccine, to you -- but there's also benefit to you from those around you getting the vaccine. Obviously, it decreases daily infections, it decreases likelihood of hospitalizations and deaths, but it also protects the herd.

BERMAN: You better not let Sanjay give you his spot in line if he's ahead of you.

CAMEROTA: I can do that -- yes. You think --

BERMAN: He's a brain surgeon.

CAMEROTA: You think Sanjay has given more to the world that this -- BERMAN: I think we need Sanjay -- I'm not saying we don't need you, I'm just saying we need Sanjay more --

GUPTA: I love Alisyn.

BERMAN: -- is what I'm saying.

GUPTA: I love Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Sanjay -- thank you. You see John elbowing both of us out the way, OK?

BERMAN: What are you thinking?

CAMEROTA: He's already told me he's going to elbow us out of the way in line.

GUPTA: It sounds like give me your spot.

BERMAN: Sanjay, so Dr. Fauci did meet with Vice President -- with President-elect Joe Biden yesterday with the transition team. What do we know about that meeting and what the future looks like for Dr. Fauci in the Biden administration?

GUPTA: Well, I spoke to Dr. Fauci right after he had this meeting with the action review team, it's called. It's a transition team where they start to actually go through what is known institutionally and how to apply that going forward.

Dr. Fauci met with -- it was via a Zoom call with Jeffrey Zients, who is this new coronavirus coordinator; Vivek Murthy, former surgeon general who is on this new task force; David Kessler, to name a few. So there were several people on the call.

You know, he's been asked, as you know, by President-elect Biden to stay on as chief medical adviser and continue to sort of be the head of infectious diseases for the country.

It was interesting. You know, when I was talking to Dr. Fauci, he reminded me that he's been through -- you know, he's worked for six presidents. He's been through five presidential transitions.

[07:40:04]

And he said, quote, "This transition process at this point now is exactly the way transitions should happen."

It sounds like there's a real sharing of knowledge that's going on -- obviously, people who are going to be transitioning from one administration to the other who carry a lot of institutional knowledge. So he seemed -- he seemed quite pleased with how things were going.

BERMAN: You know -- and I know there are a lot of people who want to be a fly on the wall for a conversation between Dr. Anthony Fauci and Sanjay. They can get that chance tonight because Dr. Anthony Fauci will join Sanjay and Anderson Cooper to answer your vaccine questions. So the new CNN "CORONAVIRUS TOWN HALL" tonight at 9:00 p.m. eastern on CNN.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, do you like that photo of yourself in that promo?

GUPTA: You know, I've actually asked for it to be changed several times.

CAMEROTA: (Laughing).

GUPTA: I -- but no one's really listening to me on these things. I think --

CAMEROTA: Because I'm also lobbying for it to be changed. You look a little nefarious in it.

GUPTA: Right. Apparently, it's the only one where I'm actually staring at the -- at the camera. I always have a tendency to move my head and they don't like that. So there you go.

CAMEROTA: OK, thank you for the backstory.

BERMAN: The other thing, you look like you're hiding something, which makes it even more interesting. I like it.

All right, Sanjay. We'll see you next hour if you agree to come back.

GUPTA: OK.

BERMAN: Are President Trump's --

GUPTA: You got it.

BERMAN: -- challenges to overturn the election results all about raising millions of dollars? We have a reality check, next.

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[07:45:40]

CAMEROTA: Why is President Trump fighting so hard to stay in the job of president when he doesn't seem to be enjoying it anymore? Maybe he has a different motivation.

John Avlon has our reality check.

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JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): As our nation suffers through the surreal spectacle of a president refusing to accept election results while some of his supporters threaten election officials because they believe baseless conspiracy theories more than established facts, only one thing could make the situation even more twisted -- if it was all a grift.

Now, Trump's true believers would never believe they're being played this way but there's plenty of evidence to suggest it.

Get this. The Trump campaign sent out nearly as many fundraising e- mails in the three weeks after Election Day as the three weeks before. Some 400 e-mails, 125 texts, essentially demanding supporters donate to an election defense fund, bringing in more than $170 million in four weeks.

Now, if the term "grift" seems unfair or unkind, you might want to read the fine print because it says that most of your donation doesn't go to the recount effort at all. It goes to a new political action committee that can use your money to pay down any Trump campaign debt, finance Trump's future political adventures, including staff and travel, and a possible 2024 run.

You'd have to give $5,001 before $1.00 goes to the president's recount effort. So no wonder Trump isn't conceding. It turns out the business of losing can be very lucrative.

But wait, there's more. A new lawsuit alleges the Trump campaign funneled more than $170 million through firms headed by former campaign manager Brad Parscale. The accusation is that it was effectively laundering the money to mask payments to contractors and advisers, including presidential daughter-in-law Lara Trump and Don Jr.'s girlfriend, Kimberly Guilfoyle.

KIMBERLY GUILFOYLE, ADVISER TO PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP: The best is yet to come.

AVLON (on camera): Yes, it is because we haven't even gotten to the $800 million "The New York Times" reports the campaign torched in 18 months, including $11 million on Super Bowl ads and six figures on a copy of Don Jr.'s book, "Trigger," which help propel it artificially to the top of the best-seller list.

As Republican consultant Mike Murphy says, "You could literally have 10 monkeys with flamethrowers go after the money and they wouldn't have burned through it as stupidly."

This is just par for the course in Trump land. Remember Trump's former chief strategist Steve Bannon, arrested in August on a Chinese billionaire's yacht, indicted for raising and then allegedly misdirecting donations for a campaign called We Build the Wall.

Ivanka Trump now giving a deposition in a case alleging the Trump inaugural committee abused more than $1 million of the non-profit's money by grossly overpaying for event space at the Trump's Washington hotel.

And newly unsealed court documents showing that the DOJ's investigating the possible sale of presidential pardons.

We know they've made a ton of money off the presidency, including at least $1.2 million of your tax money to Trump properties since 2016.

So there's every reason to believe they'll continue to try to profit off political divisions in the years to come because for this outgoing president, it's always been about the dead presidents.

And that's your reality check.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

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[07:53:10]

BERMAN: A California emergency room doctor admits he faced an ethical dilemma while treating a possible coronavirus patient who had swastikas and other symbols of hate tattooed on his body.

Joining me now is that emergency room physician, Dr. Taylor Nichols. Dr. Nichols, thanks so much for being with us.

Let me make sure I get the story right. So, this patient comes into your E.R. with difficulty breathing. He has multiple Nazi tattoos on his body and he says to you, don't let me die, doc.

So you're Jewish -- and not only that, your whole team is racially diverse. So what was this moment like for you?

DR. TAYLOR NICHOLS, EMERGENCY MEDICINE PHYSICIAN (via Cisco Webex): Yes, thanks so much for having me.

So, it was a difficult situation, obviously. I mean, the patient was particularly ill and in those circumstances you really don't have time to talk to the patient all that much.

You know, I've faced these situations a number of times before so far in my career and some of my favorite conversations with patients have been just about that -- about talking to them about their tattoos, about how they're feeling, and really being able to sort of lean into my compassion for them and make sure I take the best care of them that I could.

And with this patient, I really didn't have an opportunity to talk to him. I was only left with the impact that that symbol had on me, which is -- you know, it's a symbol of hate and it's -- it challenged me a bit. It challenged me in a way that I didn't really expect and I think part of that is because of the stress that we're all under right now. And I know that other members of my team felt similarly.

BERMAN: Yes. As you say, you've had situations like this before. And you say you have a mantra that you tell yourself whenever your empathetic core wanes. So what is that mantra and why did it feel different this time?

[07:55:05]

NICHOLS: Yes. Whenever I've found myself sort of in an ethically difficult situation I always just lean into the fact that I'm the doctor there. I'm there to take care of them. I'm not there to judge them and I'm not there to make assumptions. I'm just there to do my best by everyone who comes through our doors and that's always been the goal. That's always been easier to do when you're not facing the same sort of stresses that we're under now.

BERMAN: You know, you tweeted this, which I have to say really struck me. You wrote, "The pandemic has worn on me, and my mantra isn't having the same impact in the moment. All this time soldiering on against the headwinds, gladiators in the pit. And I realize that maybe I'm not OK."

What do you mean when you say that -- I'm not OK?

NICHOLS: Yes. I was struck by the impact that this had on me. I've never really faced that kind of hesitation before in my career.

I -- you know, I felt fortunate, though, that I was able to recognize that. That I was able to recognize that this has really worn on me and that maybe I'm not doing as well working through this as I normally do -- that I pride myself on that I want to be able to provide towards all my patients and sort of reach and dig into that well of compassion.

And I felt fortunate having that moment, but I know that not all of the other frontline workers are having that experience. And so, my fear is about our mental health and how we're all doing right now.

BERMAN: Talk to me about that. How is this wearing on you? How is it wearing on the people --

NICHOLS: Yes.

BERMAN: -- you see around you?

NICHOLS: You know, all of us are under a lot of stress. It's been frustrating at times to know that we're approaching the finish line. As vaccines are starting to be rolled out, we see the finish line in sight. And we know that if we just all lean into this together we can get through it and we can save lives. And so, every case, every death is just that much more heartbreaking at this point.

BERMAN: Do you ever let yourself think about what if the situation had been reversed? What if this guy with the Nazi tattoos was the doctor and you were the patient -- what he would have done?

NICHOLS: Yes, I had that thought, sort of, fleetingly.

I would say that when we go into this job we all know that we're going to do our best by everyone and we're going to provide the best care to anyone who comes through our doors. It's sort of a mantra of emergency medicine is anyone, anything, anytime that we'll take care of them. That's what we're here for, and we'll continue to do that no matter what.

And so, I know that whether the roles were reversed or not, I would expect the best care to be provided and I know that we will do that going forward regardless. But I just really hope that everybody does lean into their compassion and really know the impact that this is having on all of us.

BERMAN: Dr. Nichols, thanks so much for being with us and sharing this story. I really appreciate it.

NICHOLS: Absolutely. Thanks so much, and stay safe and be well.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.

And this morning, we have a CNN exclusive. A window on what America might be like in 47 days. Jake Tapper's exclusive conversation with President-elect Joe Biden and the vice president-elect, Kamala Harris.

The president-elect, Biden, announced he will ask all Americans to wear masks for the first hundred days of his presidency. He will make masks mandatory in federal buildings. And he's calling on Congress to pass a compromised relief package before he takes office.

CAMEROTA: Also breaking overnight, the U.S. again shattered all coronavirus records. Two thousand eight hundred seventy-nine American deaths were reported yesterday, the most ever. More than 100,000 Americans are hospitalized this morning. More than 217,000 new cases were reported.

And an influential model now projects deaths will nearly double to 538,000 in the U.S. within the next four months.

So here is Jake Tapper's exclusive interview with President-elect Joe Biden and Vice President-elect Kamala Harris. This is their first joint interview, since winning the election, on all of these subjects.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JAKE TAPPER, CNN CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT, ANCHOR, "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER": The U.S. is entering the dark winter that you warned about with the highest death rate.