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President-elect Joe Biden Announces Health Team; Interview with Rep. Cedric Richmond (D-LA; Director of NIAID Dr. Anthony Fauci Interview on Growing Numbers of Coronavirus Cases Across U.S. and Measures That Should Be Taken in Preparation for Distribution of Coronavirus Vaccine; Rudy Giuliani Hospitalized with Coronavirus. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 07, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We knew it was coming. You will stay on as the director of the Institutes of Infectious Diseases and Allergies, and to be the chief medical adviser on COVID-19. What does that mean? How will that be different than the role you're playing right now?

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: It will be essentially being involved in all the aspects of the response coming up as we get into 2021 for COVID-19. Obviously, this is an enormous challenge that we're all going to be facing throughout the country as we emerge into and from the winter months. So there's going to be a lot of activity both from a fundamental science standpoint, vaccines, therapies, understanding the disease better, as well as the public health response. So I will be part of the team that the president-elect has put together to respond to this extraordinary challenge that we'll be facing.

BERMAN: Any difference in the role you're playing right now?

FAUCI: I don't think it's going to be substantially different. I have been involved and am involved right now as of this day with the coronavirus task force. I'm not exactly sure what the precise structure that will be put up, but it certainly will be something similar in the sense of a daily monitoring and involvement of this extraordinary challenge that we're going through.

BERMAN: The president-elect has said he will nominate Xavier Becerra to be secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Vivek Murthy to be Surgeon General, a role he played at the end of the Obama administration, and Dr. Rochelle Walensky to lead the Centers for Disease Control. Your impression of the picks? I know you've obviously worked with some of them before.

FAUCI: I worked with all of them before. They're excellent choices, all of them. Becerra has been in the Congress for a considerable period of time, a very experienced person. I know both Rochelle Walensky and Vivek Murthy very well. I've been working with Vivek for years when he was the Surgeon General during the Obama administration, and Rochelle Walensky has been a colleague of mine. She's an infectious disease expert from Harvard Medical School and Massachusetts General Hospital. So I've had considerable interactions with all of these individuals, and they're outstanding.

BERMAN: So we are tracking all kinds of statistics here this morning, and one of the things we look at is the number of new daily deaths we're seeing across the states, and we have a map which shows the rate of deaths over week to week periods. And I don't know if you can see this, but basically it's all red. Almost every state in the country is seeing at least a 10 percent increase in week-to-week deaths. Some states are seeing more than a 50 percent increase. What's going on here? Why is this happening now, Dr. Fauci?

FAUCI: John, it was predictable. This is the thing that we were saying, that we had a very high baseline of cases to begin with. Even at the time when things seemed to have been calming down, it never got down to a low baseline. Then we had a combination of a bunch of things, all of which synergized to put us in the difficult position we're in now. First of all, we entered into the cooler weather of the fall and the upcoming colder weather of the impending winter. That gets people driven indoors, which is much more amenable to the spread of respiratory disease.

Then you had various events, things like holiday season, the traveling for Thanksgiving, which we still probably are just going to start seeing the brunt of what it means when you have people traveling and congregating in seemingly innocent settings like family and dinners with friends and family and colleagues. Those are the kind of things when the weather gets cold and you're indoors and there's a lot of community spread, it just compounds itself one after the other.

And the situation is that as we enter now from the Thanksgiving holiday season into the Christmas holiday season, it's going to be challenging. And John, I don't want people to get despaired about that. There is something we can do about it. In the same breath that you say these are really very, very disturbing numbers, that's not the time to throw our hands up and say, well, we're helpless. We're not.

There are things that we know for sure that we, other countries, various cities and states have done, the fundamental simple things of the uniform wearing of masks, the physical distancing, the avoiding crowds and congregate settings, particularly indoors. If we did that across the board, John, we would be able to blunt the surges we're seeing now. We're not helpless, and as all of us have said, help is really right around the corner. We're going to start distributing vaccine doses to health care providers and people in nursing homes and other facilities literally within a week or two. It will be in the middle or end of December. And then as we get into January, there will be more doses for more people, so now is the time to really hang in there and double down.

[08:05:08]

BERMAN: You're talked about the fact that this was predictable. You know who predicted it? You did, Dr. Fauci. I want to play you some testimony that you gave in June, June 30th, on your concerns about cases when the average daily case rate was 40,000. Listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

FAUCI: When you have an outbreak in one part of the country, even though in other parts of the country they're doing well, they are vulnerable. We can't just focus on those areas that are having the surge. It puts the entire country at risk. We are now having 40,000- plus new cases a day. I would not be surprised if we go up to 100,000 a day if this does not turn around.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So you said you wouldn't be surprised by 100,000 cases in June. Are you surprised by the 200,000-plus we're seeing many days now?

FAUCI: No, John, unfortunately I'm not surprised by it, because all the indicators and parameters pointing in the direction of that happening have occurred. and the thing that is also of concern, which is what you're seeing in California, is that when you reach a certain critical point of the flexibility of hospital beds, and you see more cases of COVID coming in, you could have a real challenge and maybe even a crisis with regard to beds and personnel to take care of the people in those beds, and that's the reason why California and certain sections is looking at the possibility of a lockdown.

BERMAN: They have new restrictions in place as of this morning in several regions.

FAUCI: Right.

BERMAN: Those restrictions make sense to you this morning?

FAUCI: Oh, absolutely. In fact, I have been in discussion with the health authorities from the state of California who called me and asked, they said we feel we need to do this. What do you think? And I said you really don't have any choice. When you have the challenge to the health care system, you've got to do something like that.

BERMAN: What about playgrounds? There are questions about why playgrounds should be closed. What do you think about that?

FAUCI: It really depends, John. I don't want to be diving into a local situation and making a comment when I don't really know what exactly is going on there. The health authorities in places who are making those decisions, they're there on the ground. They know what's best for their local situation. So I'd be backing them based on what I know is good experience that they have.

BERMAN: What metrics or what have you seen in terms of results or aftereffects of the Thanksgiving holiday so far? What data have you seen?

FAUCI: It's tough to decipher it out because the slope that you see, and you pointed that out on the map, everything is lighting up in red. What we likely will see is either a blip upon a blip or what I referred to last week as a surge upon a surge. How large it's going to be is really going to vary from region of the country to region of the country. Certainly, there are going to be some sections of the country where they're anticipating this and are doubling down a bit on some of the restrictions. That may blunt it, because when you get to that point, it's usually a two to three week lag, so we're probably just on the beginning of seeing the effect that might have occurred from Thanksgiving. I hope it's not a substantial blip. I hope it just levels off and starts to come down when people realize that there are things they can do about it, and they do it.

BERMAN: What are your concerns about Christmas, Dr. Fauci?

FAUCI: My concerns, John, are the same thing of the concerns that I had about Thanksgiving only this may be more compounded because it's a longer holiday. With Thanksgiving it was the end of the week and then you go back to work the next week. With Christmas, it starts several days before. It goes through Christmas. The week after Christmas into new year's and the new year's holiday. I think it could be even more of a challenge than what we saw with Thanksgiving. So I hope that people realize that and understand how difficult this is, nobody wants to modify if not essentially shut down their holiday season. But we are in a very critical time in this country right now. We've got to not walk away from the facts and the data. This is tough going for all of us.

BERMAN: President Trump is holding a vaccine summit tomorrow. What will your role be in that summit?

FAUCI: I'm not going to be able to be there for reasons that we have something here at the NIH, but obvious I'm a player, as it were, since our institute was very much involved in the development of a vaccine. So what you're going to be seeing is the rolling out of what is a very successful effort. I think you have to really recognize that, that Operation Warp Speed and the development of a number of vaccines has really been a very successful effort that has gone on over the last year.

[08:10:09]

BERMAN: When will we see an impact on the mortality rate with the vaccine? If there is emergency use authorization granted at the end of this week, the beginning of next week, people start getting shots in their arms soon, when do you think we'll start seeing the impact on mortality?

FAUCI: It's not going to be immediately, because if you just look at the timeframe, John, if you say at this point in time, when you vaccinate people, not only the health care workers but vulnerable people, for example, in nursing homes, that by the time they get an immunity, which would be you have a prime and then you have a boost and then you have seven to 10 days after the boost, it's likely you're not going to see a measurable diminution for at least several weeks if not longer. But it will come, I'll guarantee you. If we get the appropriate people vaccinated, we do it on time, and then we go to the next level, there's no doubt that vaccine is going to be able to turn this around. BERMAN: One of the questions I know people have asked is if you get

the vaccine, even if it makes you immune from symptoms, even if it doesn't mean you'll get the symptoms of COVID, can you still be infectious when vaccinated? What's your current thinking about on that?

FAUCI: That's possible. We're going to know the answer to that as we follow people out longer. It's certainly conceivable because the primary, the prime end point of it, as we call primary and secondary end points of a vaccine, was clinically recognizable disease. We will ultimately find out if it prevents clinically recognizable disease, but there's still some virus in a person's nasopharynx. That is conceivable, maybe likely. We don't know.

But the interesting thing is that it could be even that if you do have virus in your nasopharynx, the immune system boost you get from the vaccine might bring the level of virus in the nasopharynx so even that though you may be infected, it might be much more difficult for you to transmit that infection to someone else. That's a possibility. We don't know the answer to it now. But we will find out the answer. That's part of the follow-up of the vaccine trials.

BERMAN: Fascinating, so much still to learn there. You mentioned you have an event tomorrow which is going to keep you from the White House. Any plans? The president-elect plans to roll out his health team tomorrow. Will you be at that event?

FAUCI: I will not physically be there, no. I have something that cannot take me away from here, so I won't physically be at that event.

BERMAN: One other event that happened overnight, or development that happened overnight is Rudy Giuliani, the former mayor of New York City, we know is hospitalized now with coronavirus. Have you been consulted at all about his condition?

FAUCI: No. No, I have not. I'm very sorry to hear about Mayor Giuliani getting ill. That's obviously something you don't want to see anyone. I hope that he does very well. I understand he's in the hospital so he likely will be getting good care, but I'm giving him my best wishes for a fast recovery.

BERMAN: As we all are. It is unusual that he was hospitalized given that he was on television yesterday morning. Is there anything we can discern from the rapidity with which he went from walking around doing things to being in the hospital last night?

FAUCI: No, I don't know enough about his own personal health history. He may very well have done that just as a precaution. I don't know anything about his health history. But there's nothing, I think, unusual about someone who feels they may want to just make sure they're in the right location in case something does go wrong. I wouldn't make that much about that, John. You just have to wait and see.

BERMAN: I have to let you go soon, Dr. Fauci. But one question I did want to ask. I now you've been an avid runner your whole life and lately a very active walker. What are you doing as the colder weather sets in?

FAUCI: I'm doing everything that I was doing when it was a bit warmer. I'm working about 18 hours a day. When I get home, I feel stressed, as we all do. I'm not alone in this. And the best way I relieve stress is just do a power walk for three or four miles with my wife. When the weather was good and it's OK and the time element allowed it to be lighter, but now I seem to be doing it in the dark as opposed to in sunset.

BERMAN: Dr. Fauci, we appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for joining us. Enjoy your walks over the next several weeks if you can.

FAUCI: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: Appreciate it.

FAUCI: Thanks, John, good to be with you.

BERMAN: All right, we were just talking about it right there, President-elect Joe Biden rounding out the rest of that team that will help Dr. Fauci fight the coronavirus pandemic. A top adviser to the president-elect joins us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:13]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, breaking this morning, President- elect Joe Biden announcing the members of his health team that will help his administration battle the coronavirus pandemic.

He will nominate California Attorney General Xavier Becerra to be the Secretary of Health and Human Services, Dr. Vivek Murthy to be U.S. Surgeon General and Dr. Rochelle Walensky to be the Director of the Centers for Disease Control.

Joining me now Democratic Congressman, Cedric Richmond. He is set to be senior adviser to the new President and the Director of the White House Office of Public Engagement. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

We just talked to Dr. Fauci who heaped praise on all these selections. I should ask though, Xavier Becerra to be Secretary of Health and Human Services. There have been some people calling for a doctor or a physician or a scientist to hold that role. What's the thinking for why not?

REP. CEDRIC RICHMOND (D-LA): Well, I'll tell you, typically, a doctor does not hold that role. That is a large agency that deals with so many things, and so we have a Surgeon General and we have a bunch of medical professionals all over the administration. But here we need Xavier's unique expertise and that is fighting for the Affordable Care Act, fighting for fence-line communities, environmental justice, all of those things that are part of President-elect Joe Biden's agenda that fall under H.H.S. We needed someone with a lot of experience managing a large department

and he comes from the second largest Department of Justice in the country behind the U.S. Department of Justice, and he spent 20 years in the United States Congress on the Ways and Means Committee that ushered in the Affordable Care Act.

So his experience is unique, and I think his life experiences which we don't talk about enough as a minority is going to be very important in H.H.S. as we tackle health disparities across the country.

So I think it's a phenomenal pick and it's what President-elect Biden said he would do.

[08:20:11]

BERMAN: I'd like to ask you a question about your current colleagues, "The Washington Post" reached out -- and I'm going to read this -- they reached out to all 249 Republicans in the House and Senate, only 27 acknowledged that President-elect Biden won the election, 32 said they will accept Joe Biden as legitimate President after the Electoral College votes, two said no, and the rest declined to answer.

What do you think of those numbers there? The unwillingness of Republican Members of Congress to step forward and say, Joe Biden won.

RICHMOND: I don't. And I think the -- I think the American people should just see it for what it is. It's a party skate of their President, a President who only cares about himself, and a Republican Party that has been absolutely neutered.

And the truth is, we shouldn't even be talking about them. We should be talking about the 13 million people that are about to lose unemployment benefits and paid family leave or the eviction moratorium that's about to expire.

And so I would hope that those Republican Members of Congress will focus on the American people, and that's what's so important right now as we head into these Holidays.

I mean, the stress on families is tremendous. And one of the reasons why I supported Joe Biden very early, is because he cares about other people more than he cares about himself, and I think that's what we need.

BERMAN: Talk to me about that stimulus right now. There's this $908 billion plan put together by a bipartisan group of legislators. President-elect Joe Biden says he is supportive of that as a first step. How hopeful are you that there will be action on that this week?

RICHMOND: I'm very hopeful. It is desperately needed by the millions of families out there that this pandemic is wreaking havoc on their financial stability.

If you look at our food pantries, you look at unemployment, all of those things, the American people are hurting and that means Congress should act. But it also means when we come in in January, we have to make another investment into the American people and their futures.

BERMAN: You are on the House Judiciary Committee. You have been on that for a long time. The Attorney General Bill Barr, CNN is reporting this morning, is considering leaving the administration early, not waiting the 44 remaining days. There has been some kind of a spat, a tense meeting between the Attorney General and the President.

The Attorney General, of course, said he saw no evidence of widespread fraud in the election. What do you think of the Attorney General leaving early?

RICHMOND: Well, I'll answer this in my personal capacity as a member of Congress and the members of the Judiciary Committee, I would say, good riddance.

He was an embarrassment as Attorney General. He did the President's bidding, not the people's bidding. And the Attorney General of the United States should be independent, and justice should rule the day, and that's what Joe Biden has committed to in an Attorney General.

But this Attorney General and all the ones under Trump acted more like his personal attorney, and they have really damaged justice in America and the rule of law.

So the fact that he is leaving does not bother me one bit.

BERMAN: Right. Back to your role in the Biden transition, there are still a number of Cabinet officials to be named, to be nominated. You know, that members of the African-American community have somewhat been disappointed.

Jim Clyburn has stated in some ways that he'd like to see more African-Americans nominated to senior positions in the Biden Cabinet. There are a few members of what is called the Big Four Cabinet position still available: Attorney General and Department of Defense. What is the likelihood that an African-American will be nominated to fill one of those roles?

RICHMOND: Look, I'll go back to the campaign. Joe Biden promised to have the most diverse campaign that he possibly could, and he delivered on that. He has promised to have the most diverse Cabinet in the history of the United States, and so far, he has delivered on that. There are three African-American females in the Cabinet already, and we've only picked somewhere around 10 positions, and that's historic.

You see how Xavier Becerra coming in today. So he is living up to his promise.

But for the civil rights community, for my dear friend, Jim Clyburn, who I eat dinner with every night, they're supposed to push. They're supposed to push and push an advocate for as much diversity as they possibly can.

I'm a lifelong member of the NAACP, so the fact that the NAACP is pushing us is what they're supposed to do. And Joe Biden is supposed to do what he is supposed to do and that is, deliver on his promise. Put a cabinet together that's diverse, that is experienced and ready to lead this country on day one.

And at the end of the day, I am very comfortable sitting here with you this morning, saying that I believe Joe Biden is going to deliver on his commitment to have a historic Cabinet and African-Americans, Hispanic AAPI, everyone all over in key positions to help lead this country out of this disaster.

BERMAN: Congressman Cedric Richmond, we look forward to speaking to you in your new role as part of the Biden White House. Thanks so much for joining us this morning.

You talked about Jim Clyburn, and we should say that moments ago, President-elect Biden announced that Jim Clyburn and will be one of the co-chairs of the inauguration. So that was just in moments ago.

Thank you so much, Congressman.

RICHMOND: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right. A lot going on this morning, including that reporting on the Attorney General William Barr. Why would he quit the administration now? As some people are suggesting he might do. We know he is thinking about it? What does that tell us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:29:22]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR AND NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Developing this morning, a source telling CNN Attorney General Bill Barr is considering leaving his post before President Trump leaves office, and that source telling us Barr is not happy with the President and is quote, "not someone who takes bullying and turns the other cheek."

Barr and the President held a lengthy contentious meeting last week after Barr told The Associated Press, the Justice Department had found no evidence of widespread election fraud.

Joining us now, Natasha Alford. She is Vice President of Digital Content and senior correspondent of theGrio. Also with us, CNN political analyst David Gregory.

Good to see both of you this morning, David. I'm just curious, your thoughts on this. We get to the point that now Bill Barr is apparently so unhappy he may leave before the President leaves office.

[08:30:09]