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Cuomo Prime Time
Supreme Court Rules Against Trump 9-0, Denies GOP Effort To Block Election Certification In PA; Biden Details Plan To Combat COVID-19 In First 100 Days; Florida GOP Appointee Quits Over Raid On Former State COVID-19 Data Tracker's Home. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 08, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST: You can catch it streaming live at 6 p.m. Eastern at CNN.com/FullCircle, or watch it there, and on the CNN app, at any time, on-demand.
News continues. Let's hand it over to Chris for "CUOMO PRIME TIME." Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Two things, Coop. First, that William Shakespeare guy is from the place where Shakespeare was born.
COOPER: Is he, really? I didn't know that.
CUOMO: Yes, so that's interesting.
And two, you don't even know, my brother, this Christmas is going to bring out feels in you that even your blue blood will boil, when you are going through all of it with Wyatt--
COOPER: Yes.
CUOMO: --and seeing everything through his eyes, those beautiful cerulean blue eyes, looking at you, you will experience everything anew--
COOPER: Yes.
CUOMO: --in a way that you never imagined. Love is going to come to you like you've never imagined. You'll see.
COOPER: I believe - I believe you.
CUOMO: The color may come back to your hair.
COOPER: Well that would be a blessing, yes, I'll go for that.
CUOMO: Actually, you're getting a - you're getting the reverse start. Most parents, you get grey hair because of your kid. You went into it that way. Maybe it'll turn out better for you. Anderson, you are the man.
COOPER: Thanks. CUOMO: Thank you for everything tonight, as always.
Everybody, I'm Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
The big news, 9-0, SCOTUS kicked the idea of election fraud in Pennsylvania to the curb.
Not one Justice on the high court, including the three nominated by Trump, could justify reviewing the errant trumpery before them. No conservative could offer even a word in support, not even newly-picked and prized Justice Amy Coney Barrett. The order was one sentence that ended with "Denied."
Guess Justice Barrett wasn't swayed by the bizarro tweet that Trump put earlier, of a doctored photo of her, straight out of poltergeist, or by this.
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DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Let's see whether or not somebody has the courage, whether it's a legislator or legislatures, or whether it's a Justice of the Supreme Court or a number of justices of the Supreme Court. Let's see if they have the courage to do what everybody in this
country knows is right.
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CUOMO: "Everybody," he means him.
We now know the highest court in the land with a conservative majority does not see it the way Trump does. Other judges, all across this country, conservative and liberal don't see it that way. The Republicans in charge in the relevant states don't see it that way.
Only him, the "Gang That Couldn't Sue Straight," as Jake Tapper brilliantly coined, and the Re-Trump-licans, in Congress, who, once again were defined by their silence in the face of this decision. You heard nothing from them saying enough. So much for law and order, right?
And to paraphrase Inigo Montoya, character from one of the greatest movies ever, "The Princess Bride," "Courage, you keep on using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means."
Mr. Trump, courage is in rare supply around you because no one seems to do what is courageous, to stand up for what is right, even when afraid of being attacked.
But he doesn't mean courage. He means cowardice. Trump wants fear of him and of his base to motivate judges and others to do the wrong thing. And, by the way, it's not a crazy notion. It has worked for him politically.
88 percent of Republicans in Congress still will not admit who won this election. 88 percent! Just hours ago, Head of the Senate, Mitch McConnell punted on calling
Biden President-Elect, again, despite the fact that his home state of Kentucky, and as of tomorrow, every state that any of those Republicans represent, they've all will have certified their votes.
We're waiting on West Virginia. 49 of the 50 states did so by today. West Virginia is expected to do it by tomorrow. That will mean the race is over. And if the electors vote, as they should, next week, Biden will be the winner, if inaugurated.
Why am I saying "If, if, if?" Because I have a hard time trusting half of Congress to do anything that Trump doesn't like. I honestly do. They've shown zero spine. Zero!
Now the law requires the electors to be submitted by the states as part of the certification process, which means, as of today, technically, "Safe harbor day," we should know if a state wanted to play at anything that Trump is suggesting, putting up other electors.
However, even under the law, there is a loophole. Congress can count whatever comes their way before they meet next week, and it is hard to see the Republicans, the Re-Trump-licans standing up to Trump.
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But that's OK, because America has stood up to Trump. 81 million of you outright and the institutions that back them up, namely the courts, all over this country, even the DoJ, even Bill Barr said, "No, this isn't about fraud."
I will keep arguing that the danger we face does not exit with Trump. The Re-Trump-licans who fear his return, and covet his base, are all in on the animus he harnessed. Listen to the Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee fanning exactly those flames.
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SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): There is a Civil War brewing in Georgia for no good reason. It's not unreasonable to ask the legislature to come back in and order an audit of the signatures in the presidential race to see if the system worked. What is unreasonable is to sit on your ass and do nothing when you got a chance to save the country.
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CUOMO: No, you don't mean "Save the country." You mean save your ass! Georgia certified that vote three times over. Civil War, seriously, Senator? Do your words still come from your brain, or just some reservoir of bile?
And, by the way, Graham has got plenty of company among the Re-Trump- licans. Did you see the tweets from Arizona's Republican Party?
It's calling on Americans to die for Trump, literally inciting violence on its official Twitter account, positing a clip from Rambo, the scene where Stallone threatens to shoot another character in the face with an arrow, along the line - with this line from the movie, "This is what we do, who we are. Live for nothing or die for something."
It was stupid in the movie. It is absurd and embarrassing as part of political dialog. And you know what it sounds like? Exactly what Joe McCarthy was pushing against the boogeyman of Communism.
We have been here before. Then it was called "The Red Scare." McCarthy would have been a Trumper, I argue. He was a diluted demagogue who justified lies for leverage.
His toxic brew was xenophobia, right, fear of others outside the country. It was the "Cold War" in the '50s. "The Reds, they were infiltrating us, infiltrating our institutions." His enemies within speech sparked nationwide hysteria, conspiracies.
Trumpers have taken it a step further now. Now it is that the enemy within actually comes from within.
"We have seen the enemy and it is us." Remember that line? Borrowed from the military, the War of 1813, but made famous by Pogo, a cartoon character. He in the cartoon was about identifying the source of all this littering in nature.
But now, we're destroying everything that holds us together, not just the forests. And our question is how do we stop it?
Now let's look to history. The McCarthy hearings, OK, people were growing tired of the act, tired of being scared for no good reason. And McCarthy went too far. He questioned loyalty in the U.S. Army. That's when someone with true courage stepped in, Army Counsel Joseph Welch in 1954.
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VOICE OF JOSEPH WELCH, UNITED STATES ARMY LAWYER: You've done enough. Have you no sense of decency, Sir, at long last? Have you left no sense of decency?
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CUOMO: It worked. It's what people were feeling and thinking. They praised that moment. Republicans went bad on McCarthy, censured him. But that was then. Now Trump has the whole Party in a place that is far scarier than anything McCarthy ever mustered.
What will shake the Re-Trump-licans free from their frenzy? Reality doesn't seem to be enough, record numbers in the hospital from COVID, COVID itself, the record number of dead, the record number of poor.
Maybe the restoration of decency, because that's what we need, right? It's not about Left or Right. It's about reasonable. Being reasonable is about listening, being open, maybe that will come in the act of faith by one man, the man at the top. That's what Joe Biden, President-Elect of the United States, is banking on.
Today, he announced his plan for the first 100 days, and showed the optimism, the decency that we need right now.
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JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: My first 100 days won't end the COVID-19 virus.
But I am absolutely convinced that in 100 days we can change the course of the disease and change life in America for the better.
We didn't get into this mess quickly. It's going to take time to fix. But we can do this.
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CUOMO: Is his plan enough? Are his first three big things that we'll discuss tonight with experts, to stop COVID, are they enough? I don't know. They warrant scrutiny.
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But the bigger question is whether or not he will be enough. What will be enough to shake these Re-Trump-licans free? Will this SCOTUS 9-0 negation of the nugatory nonsense from Trump about the election be enough?
Let's consult with better minds. David Gregory is here. And Michael Smerconish, out with a new documentary, "Things I Wish I Knew Before I Started Talking."
Gentlemen, thank you. It's good to see you both.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: Thank you.
CUOMO: Michael, let's go macro. What changes the state of play? First, do you accept my premise that Trump being gone does not mean Re-Trump- licanism is gone?
SMERCONISH: Absolutely. I agree with that premise. And here's the big picture you are asking, the big picture question. How can they possibly still stand with him?
The votes have been tabulated. The President-Elect Joe Biden has a margin of about 7 million. The Trump campaign lost 50-plus litigation efforts. The Supreme Court rebuked today.
How in the world in defiance of all this evidence can they stand with him? And the short answer, Chris, is he's good for them. I mean this is hard to wrap your head around. But the only Republican that Donald Trump did not drag over the finish line is himself.
They picked up seats in the House, arguably, maintained control of the United States Senate, gained the Montana Gubernatorial Mansion, held on to their advantage with state legislatures, so there is no merit, there is no ethic involved in any of this.
It is pure partisan winning, losing, self-preservation. He brings out the vote, and that's why they're not prepared to walk away.
CUOMO: David, is there any sense within that phalanx of the Right that "Yes, we won those seats. Smerc is right. But we won them despite Trump, not because of him. It was the fear of the Left. It's being more reasonable. It's being balanced. It's our policies. It was his bluster. It was his way that was rejected by all those people?"
Is there any sense that that could manifest itself?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": Maybe eventually, but you are not seeing it yet. And even--
CUOMO: No.
GREGORY: --an unpopular president, which Trump was, didn't cause that because he had such a chokehold on the base of his Party, his version of the Republican Party, and that's what he's got now.
I spoke to somebody, this week, who is familiar with this thinking, a senior Republican, who said, "Look, this whole election fraud business has been part of the kind of the firmament of the Republican Party for a long time, but not to this extent, not this level of absurdity. But it's always been there, especially in the grassroots. Whether Trump even believes it, I think is irrelevant. I don't think he does," according to this person that I spoke to.
But what's clear is that he, just like Birtherism, claiming that our first African-American President wasn't born in the United States, which was a lie, it was a racist lie, that, propelled Trump into a position to run for the presidency.
Now, this idea of "Oh, the election was stolen from us. It's all part of the Deep State and the Democrats," that is setting up his potential run in 2024, if it rather in - yes, 2024 if it happens.
CUOMO: Yes, 2024.
GREGORY: At least giving an opportunity to freeze the Party, and what Smerconish said, which is to keep a chokehold over the Party, those in power, and those who want to seek the presidency again.
CUOMO: So what is the--
GREGORY: I don't see that changing unless he just fades away.
CUOMO: So, how bad does it get, though, Michael?
I mean, you see this thing from the Arizona State Party, and people are saying "Oh, it's just Twitter." Now, I don't buy that. A State Party puts out a tweet echoing the sentiment that, you know, "Go full Rambo," on this, I didn't take it as a joke. I don't think they intended it as a joke.
SMERCONISH: Yes, I think that's vile. I mean it's one thing to go and pursue every legal remedy. I'm for that. If they think that they have got something that they can assert in a court of law, go do it. That's what the process is there for.
But what you referenced with regard to Arizona is the sort of thing that makes me worried somebody is going to get hurt, because there are a lot of folks out there, who are not playing with a full deck, who listen to this sort of thing, and may act on it.
Look at what happened with Governor Whitmer in Michigan. So, that's really the troublesome aspect to this.
CUOMO: So, David, now we look at well what's the counter? The counter is Biden.
GREGORY: Right.
CUOMO: Now, if they lose these seats in Georgia, if the Republicans win them, this is it, state of play stays just as it is right now. Or, what? What could Biden do if he doesn't have control of both Houses, David, to get something done? Even on the pandemic?
GREGORY: I think it's very difficult. I think we can spend a lot of time talking about Biden's experience in the Senate, and being a Washington insider, and having relationships with McConnell. But I think Republicans are playing a much shorter game.
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And that game is, "Look," Kevin McCarthy said it. We talked about it on this program. "If you've got a majority of Republicans who believe that Trump was cheated that the election wasn't on the up and up, then Biden is going to have a hard time."
Obama faced this among Republicans, who wanted to block him at most every turn. And they did it. And Biden saw that first hand. And I think he's going to face that now.
I think he'll face it again. I think that's one of the reasons, I think, he is being careful on some of these picks for his cabinet, thinking about who he can get through. May have a problem over at the Department of Defense with his pick.
So, I think, on the pandemic, what he's got to do, he's got an opportunity here to work with Republicans because they really got legitimate light at the end of the tunnel. And I think that's different. I think the power of the presidency to bring people around to behavior is greater than moving significant pieces of legislation.
CUOMO: Could the pandemic be his best leverage, at least early on, Michael?
SMERCONISH: I don't think anything is his leverage.
I have to say this way, Chris. If Mitch McConnell, having known Joe Biden, for four decades, doesn't have, the decency, to pick up the telephone, and say "Known you a long time. Congratulations. You got it done. You ran several times. Godspeed," even if you add a qualifier, and say, "You know, if you are sworn in on January 20," but to not even make that call tells me that we're headed for Merrick Garland on steroids.
I don't think anything gets done if Republicans maintain control of the Senate, except perhaps a continued funding of the government, very bare bones. And I hope I'm wrong.
CUOMO: I hope you are wrong, too.
David Gregory, Michael Smerconish, thank you very much. Appreciate you setting the table for us tonight.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
GREGORY: Yes.
CUOMO: Well look, here's something we can all agree on, right? This is killing us. This is killing us. It's literally making us sick. It's literally taking away from our ability to control a pandemic. 15 million cases today, I know the numbers are noise. But this has never been worst, never been worse.
It's also the day that President-Elect Biden rolled out his 100-day plan. Now, like I said, it is open to criticism. Is it ambitious enough? Does it do what we wanted to hear on COVID? Did it learn the lessons of what we've seen with Trump or not seen?
Thoughts from a former CDC Director, next.
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CUOMO: As the U.K. became the first nation of vaccinated citizens today, the U.S. had its own first as well, but they were devastating milestones.
We have now topped 15 million COVID infections. The spread is accelerating. It took us five days to reach 1 million cases. Back in September, it took almost a month. Five days versus a month!
Hospitalizations, deaths are soaring. Yet the President insists on lying to you about why COVID is spreading. It's not that we're testing more. That's just a lie, a deadly lie. And he's lying about the election. And what was supposed to be about the vaccine, Joe Biden is on task. He named a health team to combat the pandemic, beginning with a three- point plan.
In the first 100 days, Biden's focus will be on widespread mask use, issuing 100 million vaccine shots by mid-April, and getting more kids back in school. Part of that means getting teachers vaccinated as soon as possible.
All right, let's bring in someone who is going to be able to analyze this like nobody else, former CDC Director, Dr. Tom Frieden.
Good to see you, Doc.
DR. TOM FRIEDEN, FORMER CDC DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT & CEO, RESOLVE TO SAVE LIVES: Good to speak with you again.
CUOMO: What do you think of Biden's plan? What do you think of the big three points?
FRIEDEN: I think it's definitely right in the right direction. And I was really encouraged to hear the President-Elect level with the American people. "This is not going to be quick. We didn't get into this mess quickly. We're not going to get out of it quickly."
And we are focusing on the right things, protecting people with masks, getting our kids back to school, and when the vaccine becomes available, getting people vaccinated, so that we can begin to really end this pandemic.
CUOMO: All right. I get the vaccine part because that's about ramping up production, make sure it's there. I get the masks part, because that's messaging. "Back in school" seem to leave out a huge piece for me, testing.
For all the trumpery surrounding testing, literally defined as the nonsense around that word, we don't have enough. You still can't get them. They take too long to get processed. The ones you get quick are not accurate enough. They won't be accepted by employers or by hospitals or by schools.
So why wasn't testing one of the first big three? Doesn't it matter as much as anything in terms of how we keep track of this?
FRIEDEN: Testing is important. But it's only important as part of an overall strategy. And first off, if you've got test - if you got cases running rampant, you are never going to have enough tests.
You have to take this really with the one-two punch. First, you knock it down with closures, mask-wearing and measures that keep it from spreading, so you get it down to manageable levels. Right now, in much of the U.S., it is just way out of control.
As it gets down to those lower levels, then you can come in with a more strategic attack, to stop cases from becoming clusters, and clusters from becoming outbreaks, and you keep it at a low boil, a low simmer until the vaccine can come in, more and more people can get vaccinated, and we can reopen society. And while you do that, you protect our kids and our kids' education, because that's so important.
CUOMO: One more beat on that last point. The testing in schools is fundamental. One case in too many places shuts down an entire classroom, if not an entire grade, if not an entire school.
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Him saying "I want more kids in school," that's great. But it's all about the how. What can be done to get our schools looking at it more strategically, to use your word, because you've got cases among people, 18-22 is one of the highest growing populations of case load. So, what do we do?
FRIEDEN: Well, first off, let's get specific. If you are talking Pre-K through 8, there is less spread.
CUOMO: Right.
FRIEDEN: You keep kids who have underlying conditions out, and let them learn by distance. You look at your staff and teachers and others. And if they've got underlying conditions, you may need to allow them to participate by distance or put them on leave.
But for the other kids, you make sure that they can participate in- person, because we're exacerbating terrible inequalities in educational outcomes in our society, it's not just about COVID. It's about all of us moving forward together, protecting our kids, protecting our healthcare workers, protecting our future, by working together, staying apart.
Now, for the high schools, and for universities, more complicated. But you can operate safely. You then have a little more flexibility to participate by distance, to have more tele-school in those places, and lose less of that educational progress that we need to be having.
CUOMO: Yes. We got to get more of the best ideas from around the country that are working, more resources, and that all speaks to oversight by the Fed. Let's see if they do it.
Now, you wrote a brilliant piece, I will direct people to, in "The Wall Street Journal" about the vaccine hurdles. There is a lot in there about what Frieden sees as the good news, but also how you manage the vaccine will make the difference in terms of time and depth of its effectiveness.
What are the high points?
FRIEDEN: Well big picture is vaccine is coming. The news is better than we could have hoped. The level of efficacy is terrific. Tens of thousands of people vaccinated. No serious adverse events. So, that's the good news.
But it's not here yet. So, for the time being, we've got to double down on protection protocols, so that as many of us are still here, when the vaccine becomes available.
And Congress has got to pass the package that provides funding for the programs that are keeping our economy going that will allow vaccination programs to proceed because there is a need for at least $6 billion to get the vaccine out.
It would be just pathetic if we got this great scientific discovery, this strategic investment of the government, to get these new vaccines, this fortune that our bodies are pretty good at fighting COVID, and the vaccine can really protect us, and we don't have the wherewithal to get it out to people, that would just be tragic. It would be a crime.
So, we really need the Congress to pass the new package, so that the program can go quickly, and get to people, so we can recover our health and protect our economy as well.
CUOMO: Dr. Tom Frieden, thank you so much for the insight. Appreciate you.
FRIEDEN: Thank you.
CUOMO: All right, so now, what we need to do on COVID obviously plays into the congressional relief bill. Schumer, right, the Senate leader for the Democrats, is accusing McConnell, of course, the Republican leader of the overall Senate, of negotiation sabotage.
A key negotiator takes us behind the scenes. Senator Joe Manchin said he would come back, keep us in the loop, so that we can help motivate change, and he's here.
A follow-up also, coming up after Joe Manchin, remember the raid we showed you last night, the home of that Florida COVID data scientist? She says she wasn't fired for doctoring state numbers. She said she didn't send that message.
Guess who agrees with her? An official, who worked for DeSantis, in Florida, he just resigned after that happened. And he is here to tell you why. An exclusive interview you don't want to miss, ahead.
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(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: To answer your question from social media, yes, Frieden did say the money we need for the vaccine to get out where it has to go is tied up in this relief bill. It is. So, if it doesn't get done, that part doesn't get done.
There are three big economic sticking points within this COVID relief fight. Let's go through them right now, OK?
Money for state and local governments, that's first up. Now, the Re- Trump-licans will tell you this is a Blue state bailout that liberals are just using the pandemic to cover up for wasteful spending.
Look, revenue problems are going to hit harder in California and the Northeast. There is no question about it. But they're also huge economic engines. They got hit harder. They're tax pockets. And they're population centers.
So, if you look, in the interior of the country, the density is difference, which means you're going to have less depth of devastation. It doesn't mean that the people there aren't going hungry as well. And the proof of that is that governors of both parties, Red and Blue, are arguing for it.
Why? Primarily, because of where the money goes, jobs. 13 percent of all jobs in this country, state and local government. It's not all faceless bureaucrats. It's not that Deep State BS. These are the people that teach your kids, pick up your garbage, plow your streets, protect you; cops, firefighters, first responders.
In terms of dollars, we're talking about 9 percent of the GDP, the gross domestic product. More than airlines, automaker - more than airlines and automakers combined, OK? So they matter.
The so-called Party of lower taxes is fighting this. But the reality is, without it, the pandemic will be followed by massive tax hikes. That brings us to sticking point number two, direct payments. Why not get rid of the middleman and just give the money directly to you?
The White House is playing games with this, offering a one-time $600 check, in exchange for ending the $300 a week that people are getting in unemployment help. Why? One is obviously cheaper. But then the argument is that you are incentivizing people not to work.
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Two things. The idea that people would choose to not work, can only be made by those who have never known any other option, OK? And we know, for millions of Americans, the last stimulus check was the difference between poverty and survival.
Survival is exactly what the third main sticking point comes down to, workplace liability protection. Now, in other words, this is about making sure that you can't sue your employer, if you get Coronavirus at work.
"Got to have it," McConnell & Co. say, why, because they're protecting the businesses. Otherwise, we're back to what we've seen early on, massive food shortages and eventually skyrocketing prices.
They'll tell you without some protection, it's just too risky, for plants and manufacturing facilities to stay open and keep the economy moving. They're right. Whether it's meat-processing plants, farm workers, healthcare heroes, too many are being asked to put their lives, on the line, just by going to work.
But this protection does nothing for them. This isn't about how you keep the people who are keeping us safe, safe. It's about protecting profits. The amount of money a company has to expect it's going to have to deal with in claims and litigation. They're big problems, big problems.
And that's before you get to this bizarre like why Senate Republicans want to include a tax deduction for business lunches? We have more people going hungry in this country than any time since the Great Depression, and you got to take care of business expenses for entertainment?
That's the reality facing leaders like my next guest, West Virginia Democratic Senator, Joe Manchin.
Joe, thank you, Senator, for keeping your promise to come back and let us know the stay of play. Did I get it right --
SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Absolutely.
CUOMO: --in terms of the sticking points?
MANCHIN: You know what, I don't know if I can say anything else, Chris. You've covered it all.
CUOMO: You're in the room.
MANCHIN: You did heck of a good job too.
CUOMO: You're in the room.
MANCHIN: Well I'll tell you, I'm in--
CUOMO: So, where do things stand?
MANCHIN: --I'm in the room.
Well, basically, you've painted really a good synopsis of what we're dealing with. And, first of all, this is an emergency. It's an emergency. Emergency means you need to do something now.
At the end of December, we lose all the lifelines for people, unemployment and then they come back with an offer tonight that we're not going to give you any unemployment assistance. We're going to go ahead, and the money we have, we'll give it to the people that already have a job and a paycheck.
I want to help stimulate everything I can. But if I've only got X amount of dollars, don't you think the person that has nothing, and their job is not there for them, and we made them close down their businesses, need a little bit more help, during an emergency, to get through the first quarter of the next year, which is going to be the most challenging time?
We're just trying to put common sense. This is not hard. But basically, if you put politics involved, with egos on top of that, it makes it extremely difficult, and we've got to take that out. Quit playing the games.
We've got Democrats and Republicans that have been working together day and night for the last three-and-a-half to four weeks. We're ready to go. We're putting out language tonight, section by section that you can see how we're trying to address.
And basically, the two big sticking points right now, is you've got state and local aid, state and local assistance. And then, you have liability. We need both. We need both.
I'm a Democrat telling you, you need to protect the businesses to a certain extent. But you got to make sure that the people responsible for safe workplace, that the workers have safe working conditions. But on top of that unemployment - workers compensation takes care of most of that Chris.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: If you work at a meat-packing or food processing, you've got workers comp, which prevents all of these wild schemes they're saying about just wild type of suits, lawsuits to go on.
What we're trying to protect from is the person that might have walked into the store, and you get a class action suit.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: So there'd be some basically basic things that this person has done in their establishment that they're not going to say "I've got to pay $50,000 to defend myself, but yet I haven't done anything wrong. I did everything the CDC told me to do. I've lived by OSHA standards. I've done everything right. But we just didn't know with this pandemic what this scenario was. So, it's a kind of a moving target."
CUOMO: Why?
MANCHIN: There is a way to protect them and a way to - yes, go ahead.
CUOMO: No, no, no, go ahead. There's a way to protect--
MANCHIN: We just - we've got to do some commonsense.
CUOMO: There's a way to protect them, and what?
MANCHIN: There's a way to protect them.
CUOMO: Please, finish your point. MANCHIN: And we're coming - those lawyers we have, very smart people, Democrats, and Republicans, are working, as we speak right now, forming language that does exactly what we need to do. But you can't give just blanket amnesty. You know that.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: Then basically, you lose all protections, and all people's rights in the country.
CUOMO: You also don't have to do it right now.
MANCHIN: But what that means--
CUOMO: You know what I mean? That litigation is going to take time.
MANCHIN: No.
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CUOMO: Those classes have to form. You have to see it. In terms of what is an exigent circumstance, what's the emergency, what you have to do now, giving the businesses--
MANCHIN: Well--
CUOMO: --protection from litigation is not a "Now."
Now is giving people that $600 check, getting people who are looking for food, money, dealing with unemployment, those are the exigent circumstances. I don't understand McConnell's urgency here, like why is that something that has to happen now?
MANCHIN: It's--
CUOMO: But giving checks--
MANCHIN: He--
CUOMO: --to individual families doesn't have to happen now?
MANCHIN: Well, I think, right now, he's saying that he might never get another opportunity to do any of this. I think he will.
Joe Biden is the most reasonable person that will look and see. He's not going to let people sue the bejesus out of people with frivolous suits. No, the Democrats aren't going to do that.
We're going to basically make sure that there's a balanced judicial system that protects, makes the work place safe, and makes sure people were held responsible. But we're just not going to let our businesses collapse. That is not going to happen.
But this is exactly what he's thinking right now, I believe, that if we don't do it now - and I'm telling him, if they don't make a deal with us now, if they believe that, they're never going to have a chance to fix it later.
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: Now is the time to work with us in a most compromising way. And we're willing to do that. And I think we'll get there.
The other thing is basically, they say, we don't want to help any of the states, because you - you mentioned Blue state bailout. They're saying - I said an emergency is an emergency.
If a state basically has shortfalls that they can't now provide basic services, I'm talking about frontline services, essential services, 911, police, firemen, all the essentials we depend on, they can't even hire them, and make sure that they're employed, you've got a big problem on your hands.
And we're saying that has to be protected. And all we're doing is making sure that there is a need. If they haven't had revenue loss, and they haven't had excessive expenses, on COVID - on the COVID pandemic, they're not going to get the money. If they have, and they can show it, and prove it, and they're going to be held accountable--
CUOMO: Right.
MANCHIN: --for fraud and abuse.
CUOMO: Is there any chance that you guys break out--
MANCHIN: So, we're doing that based on need.
CUOMO: --the vaccine money, so that we can ramp up production of that? Is there any chance that that gets done as a stand-alone?
MANCHIN: Vaccine is not going to have a problem. I don't think there is a Democrat or Republican, no matter what their politics are that would prevent the vaccine from getting out the door with the $16 billion. There's still--
CUOMO: But it's caught in this other bill.
MANCHIN: It's caught in this bill here. But basically, we're going to get this done. You've got to be a supreme - you just can't give up. Be a supreme optimist. We're going to get this done. We're not going home.
Can you imagine a U.S. Senator or a Congressman going home, and says "Well sorry. Merry Christmas to you, if you can have one, we're going home for Christmas." If they do that - I just can't believe it. I don't think anyone's that callous to do that. We're going to get something done.
CUOMO: I hope you are right. I hope you are right. Senator Joe Manchin, again--
MANCHIN: Well it's got - it's got - we can't walk out, Chris. You can't do that. CUOMO: Listen.
MANCHIN: You can't leave people that they have no - no pay. They have no - no unemployment. It stops in December. Food assistance, we got people on food lines longer than we've ever seen before.
CUOMO: Yes.
MANCHIN: And these are not the network people that you see in food banks. We've got people that are losing their rent. They're losing. They're being evicted. All this is happening at one time.
And the $900 billion, what I'm happy to see is, first of all, following the President, Mnuchin, everybody has said, "OK, that's the right number, $900 billion." We came to that agreement about two weeks ago. When found the spots where we thought everyone could agree on.
We've got to move forward now. And now we're putting the language to it. You'll be able to see tonight, or tomorrow, exactly how we want it to be spent.
CUOMO: Well, look, our time is your time. So, if you want to come here, to make the case, of what it is, what the sticking points are, what the last point is, you want to bring somebody else on, whatever you want, this has to get done. We're here to inform.
MANCHIN: Chris, you're doing a good job basically of evaluating what's happening. You were spot-on when you mentioned at the front, it's basically now down to two items. It's basically on state and local aid and they need it. If there is an emergency, they need it.
CUOMO: I hear you.
MANCHIN: As well as the people who need protection against just frivolous lawsuits.
CUOMO: I got you. Senator Joe Manchin, thank you very much.
MANCHIN: We're going to fix both of them. OK.
CUOMO: Good luck.
MANCHIN: Thank you.
CUOMO: Good luck. We'll stay on them.
MANCHIN: OK, thank you.
CUOMO: All right.
MANCHIN: We'll get it done. We'll get it done.
CUOMO: I hope so.
Look, one of the reasons it has to get done is we have to take care of the people who are taking care of us, OK? We have to do that with the vaccine. We got to make sure we take care of them, and we got to make sure there's money for all the stress and strain.
They are not doing the normal job. Being at this kind of capacity, against the pandemic, for a year, that breaks you down, physically and mentally. Mental healthcare for professionals, OK?
You remember Dr. Lorna Breen? What just a beautiful example of humanity in action! Top ER physician, New York City, crazy pedigree, everybody thought she was amazing.
[21:45:00]
She was helping. She was vivacious. She was doing it for the right reason. She was putting purpose to passion. And then she dies by suicide out of nowhere in the frenzy of this fog of war against COVID. Her family says this should have never happened.
The address on your screen is a place to go to learn more about a bipartisan bill that's been out since the summer. Will they make this part of the COVID relief package? Will they give money to our heroes to make sure they get the help they need for their head, for their heart, and their body, in this war to keep us alive? That's for you.
Now, I want to stay on this story, about what happened in Florida, because I think it's a window into a kind of muscle-up politics that is bringing us down. Has there been a COVID cover-up in Florida?
We showed you that raid last night on a fired data scientist's home, a whistleblower who thinks the Governor has been trying to silence her and others. There are developments tonight, on that Rebekah Jones incident.
We have a Florida official who just resigned over that raid and, and, the pandemic response by Governor DeSantis. Why? An exclusive, next.
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CUOMO: I want to bring in - you remember this. This is the video from the raid.
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(VIDEO - RAID ON FORMER FLORIDA COVID-19 DATA TRACKER REBEKAH JONES' HOME)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Jones, come down the stairs, now.
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CUOMO: Was the raid emblematic of political strong-arming by Governor Ron DeSantis, and a cover-up of what is actually going on with COVID in that State? These have been - allegations have been going on from the beginning in terms of how they do their accounting.
Now let's get an insider's understanding of what's happening in that state and in that government, OK?
We have with us now Ron Filipkowski, OK? He has worked for the state for a while. He was an appointee by Governor Scott twice, now of Governor DeSantis once, lifelong Republican. He resigned over what you saw, and joins us exclusively.
Counselor, thank you very much. You were Vice Chairman of Florida Judicial Nomination Committee. Why was this too much?
RON FILIPKOWSKI, RESIGNED FROM FLORIDA STATE COMMISSION OVER RAID, FORMER MEMBER, 12TH JUDICIAL CIRCUIT JUDICIAL NOMINATING COMMISSION, ATTORNEY: Well, I watched the video when she tweeted it out right after the incident happened. And I just couldn't believe what I was seeing.
I knew who she was. I've been following her as sort of an independent source of data after she was let go by the state. And I saw what was happening and I couldn't believe it.
Then I read the search warrant, the - and I'm a criminal lawyer, and I couldn't believe what I was reading in the search warrant, about how broad it was, about what they were alleging, as a supposed crime. And so, I was just really outraged by the whole situation.
And then the final straw was really hearing Governor DeSantis' spokesman, Fred Piccolo, come out and say he didn't know anything at all about the raid. He had no knowledge of it. And no one told him anything about it, which I found just to be fantastical, you know, just not credible.
CUOMO: You don't think there's any way that the Florida Department of Law Enforcement does something like this, and the Governor's office doesn't know?
FILIPKOWSKI: Rebekah Jones has been a thorn in Governor DeSantis' side for throughout the whole pandemic. I mean she's a pretty, relatively high profile person in Florida. Most people know who she is, and what she's up to. I can tell you that she is not his favorite person.
CUOMO: Right.
FILIPKOWSKI: So, FDLE has to know when they're going to do a raid on her, like this, it's going to make news. It's going to be big news. So, the idea that a small law enforcement agency like FDLE, which
reports directly to the Governor, would do a raid like this, on a high profile person, without clearing it through Governor's office?
CUOMO: Right.
FILIPKOWSKI: There's just no way.
CUOMO: And she says she didn't send the message that they're calling the cybercrime that somebody accessed the emergency communications system within the Department of Health, and said "Speak up now. You know that they're not telling the truth about COVID. You know it's going to mean more deaths. Speak up now." She said she didn't send it.
But in terms of the meaning of that message, as an insider there, within the government, you are aware that there have been suggestions about how reporting was handled from hospitals about cases, how reporting from schools was handled about cases, and there have been allegations that this government has not been straight with the people there or with the country.
What is your experience?
FILIPKOWSKI: Well, that's what we've seen. We've watched Governor DeSantis in his press conferences be incredibly abrasive and short with the media on any COVID-related question. It's just - it's been incredibly frustrating.
And so, we're really looking to people like Ms. Jones and like the media, here in Florida, to give us the facts, to get us the facts. And so, when something like this is done, I think it's not only meant to intimidate and silence Ms. Jones, but more importantly, to intimidate and silence people inside the administration right now and to send a--
CUOMO: Do you believe--
FILIPKOWSKI: And that's why they seized her phone.
CUOMO: Do you believe - well that's another angle on this story that they didn't take the router and other things they would have wanted to look at, to see what IP addresses were communicating through her system. But they took the phone, which would be a window--
FILIPKOWSKI: Right.
CUOMO: --into her sources which is a very dangerous--
FILIPKOWSKI: Exactly.
CUOMO: --examination of somebody's First Amendment rights.
Do you believe that your Governor has been dishonest about the COVID realities in your state?
FILIPKOWSKI: Yes, absolutely. No question about it. I mean, in May, he was looking for an apology from the media because he had - he had conquered COVID in Florida, when we all knew that that wasn't the case. He's also claimed that if there is a death with somebody who dies of COVID, and they have a pre-existing condition, it shouldn't really count as a COVID death. He said a lot of things like that.
And then, you know, I always had a very high opinion, to be honest with you, of Governor DeSantis until COVID.
[21:55:00]
And his approval ratings in Florida were, I think, in the low 70s, when COVID happened. And they've taken a nosedive. And it's simply because of the way he's handled this pandemic, which just baffles all of us here.
CUOMO: Well, Ron, I know that speaking out against a member of your Party, especially the Party you're in right now, is not only an act of courage but some would say an act of lunacy. But I think if you're going to stand up for the right things, it's worth taking whatever comes along with it.
Ron Filipkowski, thank you for telling the truth of this situation down there, and what your concerns are about COVID, and how the state government is handling it. I respect it and I appreciate you. If there is - if there is backlash on this, let me know, and I'll take on the fight with you.
FILIPKOWSKI: All right, Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: All right. Be well.
We'll be right back.
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CUOMO: Thank you for watching. "CNN TONIGHT" the big show with the big star D. Lemon starts right now.
DON LEMON, CNN HOST: How are you holding up? Are you living in reality tonight?
CUOMO: I am always in reality, my brother. I am on the real, 24x7, Hundo P, all day. My concern is that this relief bill is showing all the politics at its ugliest.
