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New Day

Biden To Elect Retired Army General As The Defense Secretary; New Hope For The Millions Of Struggling Americans During This Pandemic; President Trump Still Fighting The Outcome Of The Presidential Election; Angry Protesters Filled With Misinformation Wreaking Havoc; Britain Becomes The First Western Nation To Start Inoculating People Against The Coronavirus. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 08, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:30:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

JOHN BERMAN, CNN HOST: Breaking overnight, sources tell CNN that President-elect Joe Biden will nominate retired Army General Lloyd Austin to be Defense Secretary. Now if confirmed Austin will be the first black Pentagon Chief.

Joining us now CNN Military Analyst, retired Lieutenant General Mark Hertling. He was General Austin's West Point classmate and served under him in Iraq. I guess I'll give the year, I'm not trying to make you feel old, 1975 classmates at West Point. So you knew him then, you served under him in Iraq. Just tell us about General Lloyd Austin.

LT. GENERAL MARK HERTLING, CNN MILITARY ANALYST: Yes John good morning. And yes, it did make me feel old. He -- Lloyd is a superb soldier, a great leader. In fact, right now he's also the Chair of the Leadership at West Point. So, he is seen by cadets and faculty alike as continuing his service to not only the nation but to our alma mater.

As a commander in Iraq, he was my core commander when I had a division in northern Iraq. By the way, interestingly enough, John Kelly was also one of his division commanders in western Iraq. So he -- he knows John Kelly as well. But -- but Lloyd is a very introverted, thoughtful, ethical and courageous soldier and individual. He's smart as a whip.

He's worked with President Biden -- President-elect Biden before on multiple occasions, so I think there's a comfort level there from his time not only in Iraq, but also in Afghanistan and when Lloyd was the commander of Central Command during the Obama Administration.

BERMAN: Now, there is a historic aspect to this nomination. He would be first black Secretary of Defense. Talk to be me about the significance of that in the U.S. Military.

HERTLING: Well, that is significant. You know, the diversity within the military is something we pride ourselves on. That's, by the way, also going to be other edge of the sword because many people thought that the first woman, Michele Flournoy was going to be the Secretary of Defense.

But I think President Biden -- or President-elect Biden is attempting to get a complimentary team. You know, there are many presidents who pick individuals for positions.

What I see President-elect Biden doing is looking at not only the individual qualities, but how they forget together extremely well as a team. And he has some true challenges in the international arena, so this diverse candidate, or the first African-American as the Secretary of Defense is telling.

It also shows that the president -- President-elect is attempting to live up to his promise to make the -- his cabinet picks as diverse as America is and I think that's important to recognize.

BERMAN: Now, the pick is not without controversy because of the National Security Act, which initially required 10 years for active duty service people before they became Pentagon Chief, that was changed to 7 years.

There've only been two generals who have become Secretary of Defense within that time period, George Marshall and then Jim Mattis, who just had to receive a Congressional waver so he could serve.

Why is -- I can actually read you a quote from a guy named Jim Golby who wrote overnight in the "New York Times" about this, it is controversial, it is a real issue having a military leader of the Pentagon.

Golby writes, appointing another retired general to lead the Pentagon will not help return things to normal, even if a retired general like Mr. Mattis was the right person for the Trump era, that era is over.

So, why the concern General?

HERTLING: Yes, I think this is going -- you're going to see a lot of this kind of churn between those who are -- are forwarding the argument about a proper civilian military relationship and the dynamics that are involved between having a civilian Secretary of Defense to control all the generals. And certainly General Austin, who retired in 2016, is going to need that waver. He's only four years, soon to be five years, out of the Army, so it doesn't meet the seven year requirement.

But, I think this is a very different pick than Secretary Mattis was. You remember when Trump picked Mattis he didn't know him. I mean, he knew him by reputation and the Mad Dog nickname and all that other stuff and he picked him out of a crowd not really understanding the dynamics of this.

The difference is, in this situation, is that President-elect Biden knows General Austin very well and I think he's building a team that will be decentralized and address all the -- not only the domestic issues that are involved, but the international issues and rebuilding alliances and that's what I think Secretary -- or Secretary Austin will do for President-elect Biden if confirmed.

BERMAN: Aside from the issue of the waver and civilian leadership, what do you see as the strengths of General Austin and potential weaknesses? I know Republicans will no doubt talk about his record of command during the time that ISIS really did rise to power in Iraq.

[07:35:00]

HERTLING: Yes, that will catch him up in the -- in the hearings I'm sure, because he was in command, the Central Command as Syria started exploding significantly. But what I would say is, General Austin certainly has a feel for the Pentagon. He has been an engager on the world stages. As the Commander of Central Command he dealt with other governments, other armies, ambassadors across the -- the spectrum.

He knows the building, that's for sure. He understands the transformative requirements within the Department of Defense and as a combat veteran he knows the issues associated with putting our young men and women in harms way.

The downsides, I think, and I think General Austin would admit this, he's introverted, he's very quite. I don't think you're going to see the press availability; he may leave that to his Deputy Secretary of Defense or his OSD policy. He is very thoughtful and he will be connected as part fo a team, so those could be strengths or weaknesses.

Some will say because he does have a military background that he will trend more toward obeying the orders of the president. Knowing Lloyd and knowing how he acted in Iraq, that's certainly not the case. He will stand up for what is right.

He's an ethical and conscientious individual and I think even though I'd -- I also would lean toward having a civilian as Secretary of Defense. I think he'll -- he's a good pick and the Biden team is putting a pretty good National Security team together.

BERMAN: Yes, and again, he will have to get away from both the House and the Senate. It's an important issue to discuss and they no doubt will and they'll put it to a vote. General Hertling, thank you so much for your perspective. Appreciate it.

HERTLING: Always a pleasure John, thanks.

BERMAN: So this morning members of Congress inching closer to a bipartisan deal to help struggling American workers. We're going to get the latest update from these relief and stimulus talks next.

[07:36:55]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:41:00] ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN HOST: New hope this morning for millions of struggling Americans who need help from the government. A bipartisan group of senators say they've made progress on key sticking points as they work to hammer out a stimulus deal.

CNN's Julia Chatterly joins us now with more. What we know Julia?

JULIA CHATTERLY, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Good morning Alisyn. One of the keys to unlocking this vital stimulus aid package comes down to liability protection for business against COVID related lawsuits.

Remember, this is something that the Republicans have been pushing for. The Democrats have been saying, look, don't protect businesses at the cost of workers and employees. Well, what we need is a compromise and it seems in talks last night.

Senator Mitt Romney put forward a proposal. He suggested providing one year of temporary liability protection at the federal level before states then take over. However, there's a caveat.

If you were negligent as a business and somebody ended up getting sick you are not going to be protected. So, this is sounding more like it. They don't have an agreement yet, but it does seem that progress is being made and these talks will continue.

I have to say there's expectation this week that lawmakers will vote to extend the negotiating period by a week, both on the stimulus proposal, but also keeping the government funded. And Alisyn, just to keep the pressure up, business leaders are also pushing here too.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce came out last night and said, guys, if you don't reach a deal here we're risking the economy pulling back into what we know as a double-dip recession and that will cost jobs. So, we've got business keeping the pressure up, people clearly, desperately need this cash.

No deal yet, but progress I think being made here. And I have to say, people I've been speaking to are as confident as they have been since that March deal was agreed that actually we can get something done. So, fingers crossed Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That's really good news. I guess the term double-dip recession gets lawmaker's attention.

CHATTERLEY: Hopefully.

CAMEROTA: Yes, Julia, thank you very much for all that reporting.

So, armed protesters gathered outside the home of Michigan's Secretary of State demanding that she overturn the election. What happened next, the state's Attorney General joins us.

(SHOUTING)

[07:43:15]

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[07:47:32]

BERMAN: So, this morning President Trump is trying to overturn the results of the election in public and Republicans largely are either trying to help or standing by and watching silence.

John Avlon here with the reality check.

JOHN AVLON, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: One in 40, that's roughly the Trump legal team's record in court, getting smacked down by judge after judge in state after state because they've pushed ludicrous accusations without actual evidence.

But just listen to the White House Press Secretary lie on the taxpayer dime last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

KAYLEIGH MACENANY, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: A trend we are seeing is, don't let them see the evidence. Leftist lawyers saying, we don't want evidence presented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: That's the opposite of true, but it's almost as a bad as Trump claiming yesterday that he was two and zero in presidential elections. But Trump and his minions continue to push new conspiracy theories. And around a quarter of our country apparently believes them.

At Trump's Georgia rally there were signs handed out that read, defend our democracy. They're doing the opposite. So, let's reality check some of the most recent disinformation.

Trump's been spreading lies about signature matches in Georgia, ignoring the fact that Georgia actually strengthened its signature match requirements for this election and checked them twice. Then after three counts by Republicans Joe Biden has won the state each time.

Also in Georgia a video pushed by team Trump pumped up on Fox News reported to show illegal ballots being added to the count, but the video was reviewed by the Republican Georgia Secretary of State and it showed normal ballot processing.

Finally, President Trump is still pushing the totally discredited Dominion Voting System conspiracy.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: When you look at who's running the company, who's in charge, who owns it, which we don't know. Where are the votes counted? Which we think are counted in foreign countries, not in the United States.

(END VIDEO CLIP) AVLON: These are knowable things and none of them track with Trump's alternate reality. And if you don't want to listen to the U.S. based company's CEO debunking the bizarre claims in a "Wall Street Journal" op-ed, then listen to Republican Georgia Election Official Gabriel Sterling who said, there are no vote flipping machines. So when you hear someone like Newt Gingrich say nonsense like this --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NEWT GINGRICH, FORMER SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES: The objective fact is I believe Trump probably did actually carry Georgia.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[07:50:00]

AVLON: Remember that beliefs are definitionally not objective facts. Now a "Washington Post" survey showed that only 27 Republicans in Congress were willing to publicly acknowledge Joe Biden's win.

Now these folks should be known at the Patriot Caucus, because they're putting country over party, but on the other end of the spectrum are a handful of folks who insist Trump won the election despite all the evidence.

The "Washington Post" identified two, (inaudible) and Mo Brooks. CNN's reporting found at least three others, Jim Jordan, Matt Gaetz and Andy Biggs. So, want the House to debate and presumably overturn the election. Now we could call these folks members of the Cult Caucus, seeing as they've essentially going full dear leader.

And then there's the Coward Caucus, roughly 88 percent of Republicans in the House and Senate who have yet to acknowledge the reality of Joe Biden's big win. And that includes Republican leadership. As belief in the integrity of our elections diminishes and death threats against election officials escalate. But I'm going to let Gabriel Sterling have the last word here.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GABRIEL STERLING, GEORGIA ELECTION OFFICIAL: This is elections, this is the backbone of democracy and all of you who have not said a damn word are complicate in this.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

AVLON: And that's your reality check.

CAMEROTA: John, I'm so glad that you pointed out even to Newt Gingrich that his strongly held beliefs are not objective facts.

AVLON: Facts aren't feelings.

CAMEROTA: Thank you very much for all of that.

So angry protesters filled with misinformation are creating scenes like this one.

(SHOUTING)

This is outside the home of Michigan Secretary of State Joselyn Benson. She says some of these protesters were armed and yelling obscenities while she was inside with her 4-year-old son.

Joining us now is Michigan's Attorney General Dana Nessel. Attorney General, good morning.

DANA NESSEL (D), MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: Good morning.

CAMEROTA: Do you understand what those armed protestors wanted?

NESSEL: Well, it appears as though they wanted the Secretary of State to conduct some sort of forensic audit, which by the way, by law she's conducting an audit anyway. But, moreover it seems as though they want her to overturn the results of the election somehow. And as you know, Joe Biden won the state of Michigan by over 150,000 votes.

But unfortunately this constant stream of misinformation and disinformation that comes from the president and from his allies and frankly from other media outlets has led to this situation where we're not only seeing and undermining people's faith and confidence in the electoral process, but also in undermining of the safety of those who conduct our elections here in Michigan and around the country.

CAMEROTA: She was inside with her family, including her 4-year-old son. They were about to watch "The Grinch Who Stole Christmas" and you've said when you saw this that this is not activism, this is terrorizing. And so, legally speaking what can be done?

NESSEL: Well look, people have a right to, you know, make their grievances known under the First Amendment, but there is a time and a place and a manner. And had they wanted to demonstrate of protest outside of her offices and pull the proper permits to do so, that would have been absolutely fine.

But instead, they chose to disrupt the peace and tranquility of a neighborhood under the cover of darkness and criminal acts are not shielded by the First Amendment. You cannot trespass, you cannot threaten people, you cannot disrupt, you know, noise ordinances or engage in disorderly conduct and call it protected First Amendment activity. And so, I think we see this --

CAMEROTA: But I mean -- yes, but then why weren't any -- why weren't arrests made that night?

NESSEL: Well my understanding is by the time the police arrived the crowd was dispersing. But, you know, I would caution people in the future that obviously we're going to be on the lookout for this kind of behavior and I would encourage police when they arrive on the scene to start issuing tickets and potentially arresting people in the event that they are committing crimes. And as State Attorney General I intend to vigorously prosecute those cases. CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about Rudy Giuliani, the president's

lawyer. He was in Michigan on Wednesday, there are -- you know -- there's also some video and photos of him at this hearing. He's maskless, we also know he was, you know, maskless at other times in close quarters with people.

Two days later after this hearing he began, our reporting is, exhibiting symptoms or feeling symptoms of coronavirus, he tested positive for coronavirus. As far as we know he's in the hospital. So, what does this mean for Michigan health officials? Do you all now have to start contact tracing and figuring out who else is sick?

NESSEL: They closed down the legislature today. There was a very busy day planned with a lot of bills that were going to be heard in committee and voted on. But instead we don't have any of that because -- simply because of Rudy Giuliani's appearance, an appearance by the way that was so comical in nature that it was actually parodied on Saturday Night Live. And when's the last time you heard a committee hearing for a state legislature parodied on SNL? That's how ridiculous it was.

But, it had very serious implications. Not because -- just because it undermined people's faith in democracy because of the ridiculous nature of the testimony that was presented, but because of the health hazard that it posed.

And now, we have, you know, an entire chamber that is unable to meet, unable to do its work simply because he chose to be reckless and to expose people to COVID-19 and not to engage in this simple, simple task of wearing a mask.

And, in fact, he encouraged other people, including witnesses he presented to take off their masks during the course of the event.

CAMEROTA: I mean, and when people put other people's lives in danger that way, are there legal ramifications?

NESSEL: Well, you know, I think that's something that for those of us in law enforcement we're going to have to begin considering, particularly where there is a person who knows and understands that they are COVID positive and they intentionally place the lives of others at risk.

You know, I think that this a last resort for us, nobody wants to be prosecuting people when it comes to these kinds of public health issues, but you look at the actions of Rudy Giuliani, you look at how careless, how reckless he behaved and how -- you know -- who knows how many people now have been infected because of him and have passed that on to others and who have potentially become very sick, very ill and even died as a result of his behavior. And I think it might be something we have to explore.

CAMEROTA: Dana Nessel, Michigan's Attorney General, we really appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for being on New Day.

NESSEL: Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: And New Day continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: Without substantial mitigation the middle of January can be a really dark time for us.

GOV. ANDREW CUOMO (D), NY: If we don't get the rate under control we will have to go back to shutdown.

UNIDENTIFIED MAKE: President-elect Biden is poised to introduce his new health team.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We are accessing how many doses were ordered, what the timeline is for delivery and what the current administration's plans are to deliver those doses.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: There is a summit happening on vaccines here today at the White House. Pfizer and Moderna are not going to be present at this event.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The reason he's not talked about the pandemic is he's not actually interested in doing the job of a president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is New Day with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: Good morning everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is New Day.

And we begin with breaking news. This morning Britain becomes the first western nation to start inoculating people against Coronavirus. A 90-year-old woman, you see here, I can't believe she's 90, was the first to get the Pfizer vaccine.

BERMAN: She doesn't flinch, not a flinch there.

CAMEROTA: No. Look at that. Back here in the U.S. the FDA will consider emergency approval of that vaccine on Thursday. If it is granted Americans could get vaccinated within days. But states say they do not think they will receive enough doses to fully vaccinate top priority people.

The "New York Times" reports that the Trump Administration turned down an offer from Pfizer to buy more doses back in the summer. Dr. Sanjay Gupta will be here to explain why.

BERMAN: One hundred and two thousand Americans are in the hospital with coronavirus this morning. That is a record. That's the population of South Bend, Indiana. The entire population of South Bend, Indiana, the equivalent in the hospital this morning. An average of 2,200 Americans are dying everyday over the last week.

We're talking about mass suffering. But, the outgoing president is consumed with just one person, himself,

almost completely focused on throwing out the results of the election he lost, that as he holds maskless indoor events in small rooms in the White House.

Breaking overnight, CNN has confirmed that President-elect Joe Biden will announce the nomination of retired Army General Lloyd Austin to be his Secretary of Defense.

Let's begin in the U.K. though. CNN's Max Foster live in Wales, where people are getting shots now with the coronavirus vaccine from Pfizer. This is a milestone Max.

MAX FOSTER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: It really is, it's going to plan as well so far, although the next phase is probably going to be the big challenge. I was allowed into a vaccination center here in Cardiff earlier today, I can't tell you where it is, because they're concerned that people might turn up to these centers and try to get vaccinated. There isn't this suspicion of vaccination in this country that you do get in some other countries. There's a huge amount of positivity about it. When I went in there --

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