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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Continuing to Push False Claims of Rigged Election; Vaccine Distribution; Bipartisan Group Releases Details on $908 Billion Stimulus Plan; Fauci: If the FDA Says Vaccine is Safe, I Will Take It. Aired 4:30-5p ET

Aired December 09, 2020 - 16:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[16:30:46]

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Back with our health lead.

If the FDA grants emergency use authorization for the Pfizer vaccine this week, the next big challenge will be distributing it. That challenge is made all the more difficult across vast rural areas of this country, where hospitals and clinics and those all important ultra-cold freezers could be literally hundreds of miles away from the nearest COVID patient.

As CNN's Omar Jimenez found out, the solution includes a network of planes, vans, and coolers.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

OMAR JIMENEZ, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): When the backdrop is windmills and open fields, you can see how getting a COVID-19 vaccine to actual people turns into a challenge.

It involves literally loading cold packs into a minivan that eventually will be part of keeping this vital medicine cold as it travels tens, even hundreds of miles to clinics and hospitals that need them.

JESSE BREIDENBACH, SANFORD HEALTH: Each state will receive its own allocation of vaccine. And so we planned for that accordingly and strategically placed freezers like this across our four-region footprint.

JIMENEZ: At Sanford USD Medical Center in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, they're ready for whatever amount of vaccine they get.

BREIDENBACH: Latch on the side, and then there are inner doors as well.

JIMENEZ: Months ago, they bought these ultra-cold freezers, at least negative-70 degrees Celsius, or negative-103 degrees Fahrenheit, required for the Pfizer vaccine, negative-20 degrees Celsius for Moderna's.

BREIDENBACH: Right now, the freezers are empty. JIMENEZ: The Pfizer vaccine can only survive for up to five days in

typical refrigeration.

BREIDENBACH: And when we get orders from our clinics to distribute that vaccine, we will pack it in coolers on ice, and then monitor that temperature to make sure it's at that point maintaining refrigerator temperatures until it is given to the patient.

JIMENEZ: But the actual distribution is complicated. Sanford's coverage area encompasses more than 200,000 square miles over multiple states. That's almost comparable to the size of Texas. They have to rely on hubs that have the ultra-cold storage facilities in key regions of these states.

And that's because each state gets its own allocation of the vaccine. So, Sanford can only take supplies across state lines, not the vaccine itself.

And then, from the hubs, they transport just enough vaccine to even more remote locations to get people what they need, but not leave anything wasted in clinics or locations that can't store it properly.

DEAN WEBER, SANFORD HEALTH: Delivering multiple times over many days to move the vaccine, we will continue to do that, rather than moving big portions of vaccine to a small clinic or a critical access hospital, so that we don't run into that temperature dilemma.

JIMENEZ (on camera): What is the most difficult part about administering and distributing a vaccine in a rural setting vs. a city setting?

KELLY HEFTI, SANFORD HEALTH: The geography itself, just the miles that separate us, making sure that resources can reach all of those areas.

DR. JEREMY CAUWELS, SANFORD HEALTH: I think worrying about when you're going to give a vaccine within six days of taking it out of the freezer and within six hours of reconstituting it is really something we hadn't -- I don't think anybody has done before.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

JIMENEZ: And something to keep in mind for some of these rural areas, especially as we head deeper into the winter months, is, if there's bad winter weather and the roads are impassable, vaccine just isn't going to get delivered to some of these locations.

And then there's the next hurdle. Once we get past this initial vaccination phase, it's about trying to actually get people to get these vaccines, which is something one Sanford Health doctor told me has come up every single time he has spoken to a family about the prospects of a vaccine -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Omar Jimenez in Sioux Falls, South Dakota, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Nursing homes and other long-term care facilities are also trying to

get ready to receive the first doses of the coronavirus vaccine.

Dr. Richard Feifer is executive vice president and chief medical officer of Genesis HealthCare, which is the largest nursing home chain in the United States, with 30,000 residents and 45,000 employees.

And he joins us now to discuss.

Thanks so much for joining us.

So, CVS and Walgreens have partnered with the federal government to deliver these first doses of the vaccine to vulnerable communities. How is this going to work for your facilities?

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DR. RICHARD FEIFER, CHIEF MEDICAL OFFICER, GENESIS HEALTHCARE: At Genesis, we have decided to work with CVS across the country.

And they're going to be responsible for the supply chain, for bringing the vaccine out to all of our nursing homes, for providing vaccinators, pharmacists and technicians coming in, working with our staff, our nurses and others, to go around the facility to vaccinate residents, to vaccinate staff, and also to take care of the reporting requirements.

So, it's going to require a lot of teamwork. But getting through this quickly is absolutely critical, so that we can begin the last phase of this deadly pandemic that's wreaked so much havoc in nursing homes.

TAPPER: Have you received the vaccine yet?

FEIFER: We have not yet because the vaccine has actually not received its authorization yet from FDA. We're hopeful that tomorrow's meeting at FDA will lead to that and that the vaccine will begin to be brought out to nursing homes for vaccination as early as late next week or the following week.

TAPPER: OK, because we were told that, in anticipation of the FDA approving emergency use authorization, they were already, Operation Warp Speed was already getting the vaccines into place. You're expecting it early next week.

Are you worried at all about your workers or your residents having the flu-like side effects that have been reported, only about 10, 15 percent of people taking the vaccine, and potentially your employees might need to call out? Are you staggering them so, if that happens, they don't all happen at once?

FEIFER: The concern about side effect rates is a very significant issue. It's an issue that we need to be careful about, because we want to make sure that our front-line staff, caregivers, in fact, everyone knows that mild side effects indicate that the vaccine is working, that the vaccine is stimulating the immune system to generate immunity. So it's not necessarily a bad thing to have mild to moderate fatigue

or muscle aches or headaches or even low-grade fever. But people are concerned about that. So we want to make sure that everyone's prepared and people don't get worried and they don't panic.

Certainly, some people are going to develop symptoms that are significant enough for them to not want to work the next day. That's concerning in a health care setting. We need to make sure that we're adequately staffed at all times. And so we're making contingency plans right now, so that some percent of people who get vaccinated, they can be out and we can cover that.

We're also talking to CVS, as well as CDC and Medicare, about the possibility of staggering this in different ways. It's a real challenge. We realize that, because CVS and Walgreens and the other large pharmacies, they need to get the vaccine to 15,000 nursing homes in America...

TAPPER: Yes.

FEIFER: ... in record time really quickly.

So, we're trying to work through those issues right now with them.

TAPPER: And just to clarify and correct something I said, the Operation Warp Speed is getting vaccine supplies out ahead of time, syringes, that sort of thing, not the actual of vaccine.

Are you going to require your workers to get vaccinated?

FEIFER: This issue of mandating vaccination is a really sensitive, but important subject.

And there's a question of whether the federal government or different states may choose to mandate that health care workers get vaccinated. And we will see how that plays out.

From our standpoint, as a large operator of nursing homes, our goal is to generate high levels of vaccine acceptance and vaccination among health care workers and among residents voluntarily. We think that's the best way to go. And so we're focusing a lot of energy right now on teaching, educating, engaging, addressing any concerns that people have, unanswered questions, so that, when the vaccine gets to them, they voluntarily receive it, they realize that it's important to them, their safety, their loved ones, and those in their care.

TAPPER: Earlier in the year, New York Governor Andrew Cuomo issued a mandate in his state, which has since been reversed, that required COVID patients to go into -- be admitted into assisted living facilities, even after they'd been diagnosed.

What was your reaction to that ruling at the time, that decision? Do you think it caused a lot of problems?

FEIFER: That was a very concerning decision. It was a tough time, and everyone was trying to react quickly. This was very early on in the pandemic.

One of the things we learned quickly at that time was the need to protect the most vulnerable among us. Nursing home residents are the most susceptible to catching a virus because of their care needs and their living situation. And they're also the most vulnerable to dying from the virus. And so keeping the virus out of nursing homes was critical.

That's why our approach at that time was actually today to create dedicated facilities and dedicated units to care for COVID-positive patients separate from the long-term care population that hadn't been exposed to it yet.

Keeping COVID out of a building is really important.

TAPPER: All right, Dr. Richard Feifer, thank you so much. Appreciate your time today.

All in. The ridiculous request one Republican lawmaker is asking his Republican peers to fulfill.

Stay with us.

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TAPPER: We're back with our politics lead.

And with exactly six weeks left in the White House, outgoing President Trump showing absolutely no signs of letting up on his flailing legal fight to challenge and overturn the election results, the outgoing president insisting today that the U.S. Supreme Court will ultimately believe the lies and deranged conspiracy theories being pushed by his supporters and will overturn the election and declare him the winner, even though he lost.

And, as CNN's Kaitlan Collins reports, even members of the Trump administration are accepting reality. Some are leaving the administration. Others are even meeting with the Biden/Harris transition team.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Out of public sight, but still in denial, President Trump pushed his false claims of a rigged election again today, while tightening his grip on the GOP.

[16:45:02]

After the Supreme Court rejected a Republican attempt to overturn the results in Pennsylvania, Trump distanced himself from the setback claiming on Twitter this case had nothing to do with me even though his legal team had touted it.

RUDY GIULIANI, TRUMP ATTORNEY: I think it's a very good case.

COLLINS: Trump has moved on and is now cheering a long-shot lawsuit filed in Supreme Court by Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton, asking to extend the deadline for certifying the election, claiming that Georgia, Michigan, Pennsylvania, and Wisconsin engaged in, quote, election irregularities.

Trump tweeted: This is the big one -- as Michigan's attorney general dismissed it as a publicity stunt.

DANA NESSEL, MICHIGAN ATTORNEY GENERAL: I go back where the taxpayers in Texas that have to finance this ridiculous and frivolous lawsuit.

COLLINS: Trump GOP allies are trying to validate it. Louisiana Congressman Mike Johnson emailed Republicans today asking them to sign on to an amicus brief for the case saying Trump, quote, specifically asked me to contact all Republican members of the House and Senate today and request that all join on to our brief.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We won in those swing states.

COLLINS: As Trump and his allies deny reality, some of his cabinet secretaries are preparing to accept it.

Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar became the first to confirm he's met with President-elect Joe Biden's transition team.

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: I already met with the Biden transition team. We want to make sure they get everything that they need.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

COLLINS (on camera): Now, Jake, today, we heard from outgoing Republican Senator Lamar Alexander who said he does believe that after the electors meet and vote on Monday to make Joe Biden's win official, that the president should call Biden and put the country first, he said. Though if you look what the president has been saying, that he wants to intervene in this Texas lawsuit that we're talking about earlier today, it does not appear that is going to be coming out of Donald Trump's mouth on Monday.

TAPPER: I don't think he's ever going to concede it. Frankly, it doesn't matter. He doesn't need to concede for President-elect Biden to become President Biden which will happen on January 20th.

Kaitlan Collins, thanks so much.

In our money lead, a lot of ideas on the table, but still no stimulus deal. A bipartisan group is trying to bridge the divide between the Democratic and Republican proposals. A snapshot of that group's proposal include funds for enhanced unemployment benefits, another round of small business loans. Sticking points include Republicans want liability shields that would protect companies from workers who sue them for bad health as a result of going back to work. Democrats want more funding for state and local governments.

CNN's Manu Raju is on Capitol Hill.

And, Manu, time is frankly running out for any sort of deal to be reached. Where are things right now?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah, and those two sticking points have been the same sticking points for months and they still continue to be. This hour, we -- there are a group of senators on both sides of the aisle that are sitting down and meeting to try to discuss if there's any sort of deal that can be reached on the liability protections. The liability shield has been pushed by Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell and others who are concerned about lawsuits that may occur from businesses and others reopening during the pandemic.

Democrats have pushed back and offered their own language that Republicans aren't there yet on. And also the push for more money for state and local governments, roughly $160 billion worth which is part of a bipartisan proposal right now. Republicans are scoffing at that proposal.

The thinking is we need to get a deal on both of those issues if they want a deal on anything. And just today, bipartisan group of senators are central to this negotiation has released more details about their overall $908 billion plan and as part of that, it includes enhanced unemployment benefits of roughly $300 a week, as well as money for vaccine distribution and the like.

But, Jake, that is just a rough six-page outline. There are so many other details, including detail bill language that needs to be introduced and leadership need to sign on it, the White House need to sign off it, and it needs to get done by the end of next week if Congress wants to get this done, and a lot of questions about whether that will happen, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Manu Raju on Capitol Hill, thanks so much.

What Dr. Fauci is most concerned about less than a day before the FDA meets to approve the coronavirus vaccine from Pfizer. That's next.

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TAPPER: Breaking news in our health lead, one day before the FDA is scheduled to vote on vaccine authorization for the Pfizer vaccine, Dr. Anthony Fauci told CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta just moments ago that if the FDA says a vaccine is safe, the American public needs to trust them.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: If the United States Food and Drug Administration says that a vaccine is safe and effective, I can promise you that I will take that vaccine myself and I will recommend that my family does that. So I think the authority should be the United States Food and Drug Administration.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, joins me now.

So, Dr. Fauci also told you that even after this vaccinated, people still need to wear masks and social distance?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yeah. And there's -- there is a reason behind this, Jake, and I think it's an important nuance. What we know about this vaccine is that it seems to be very effective at preventing people from getting sick with this COVID-19. What we can't say for sure if it prevents them from being infected or still being able to spread it, transmitting the virus. So you could have taken the vaccine and essentially protected yourself but possibly still spread the virus if you had it in your system to other people.

[16:55:07]

So, nuance point, Jake, but I think it's really important. Until you have enough people vaccinated, that 60 percent to 70 percent herd immunity number we probably still to need to wear masks for that reason.

TAPPER: So not until the summer at the earliest. Dr. Fauci also talked to you about how the U.K. government is now warning people who suffer extreme allergic reactions not to take the vaccine.

Now, it's not just any allergic. It's people that have a specific type of allergy, and what was his take on that?

GUPTA: You know, it was interesting. His take was -- first of all, he wasn't that surprised having -- that this happened, that you had people who had these severe allergic reactions. He thought that maybe it was possible for people to still take it, who've had this history of allergic reactions, as long as they were aware, and they could have, you know, the EpiPen or Benadryl or something close by. As you know, the two health care workers in the U.K. did recover well.

What is sort of interesting, Jake, when we were looking at the data from Pfizer, they excluded patients in the trial who had previous serious allergic reactions. So, they weren't even in the trial. So, some of the first patients that we saw in the U.K. yesterday how had these allergic reactions, had a history of allergic reactions, and then, you know, had a reaction to this vaccine as well.

So, we will see. I think this is going to be a point to watch tomorrow during the FDA committee meeting about whether or not they say people who have had serious allergic reactions to foods, to medicines, to vaccines in the past, if they should still get this vaccine or not. That's going to be one of the things we'll be watching for. TAPPER: I wanted to ask you. the president's personal attorney Rudy

Giuliani was diagnosed with COVID. He went to the hospital and he got access to this highly sought-out monoclonal antibody treatment. He said he feels 100 percent better. We're obviously all happy that he's feeling better.

But my impression is that these drugs are in rather short supply. How is it that Rudy Giuliani was able to get access to them? Is there any sort of decision being made that just because he is politically well- connected, he can get it?

GUPTA: Yeah. Jake. I think that, you know, the reality is what is unfair is that some of these medicines aren't more widely available to everybody. I didn't -- I didn't know specifically if the former mayor got monoclonal antibodies or if he received Remdesivir and dexamethasone. These are all medications that have been used to treated.

Remdesivir we looked into, and that is a medication that the makers, Gilead, say they have enough supply at this point. Dexamethasone, the steroid, there's actually shortages right now.

So, we know that, you know, on behalf of cabinet secretary Ben Carson, the president called in a favor to get him monoclonal antibodies. The same may have happened with Mayor Giuliani, we don't know.

But, yeah, look, I mean, the system is gamed in favor of people who can get access when other people can't.

TAPPER: We're averaging more than 200,000 new cases per day in the U.S., more than 2,000 deaths. I know we go through the numbers every time we talk, but the state of the pandemic is continuing to worsen at a rapid rate.

GUPTA: You know, it is. Jake, the thing that sort of strikes me is that if the country were a human body, the body would have these compensation mechanisms that would go into effect basically trying to blunt the damage. The country is not really doing that. If you look at these models that say, by the way, as bad as things are now, if they stay just the way it is, you could get to 500,000 people becoming newly infected every day and that counts on the fact that states would start to put in stay-at-home measures again but there's no evidence that they're doing that, Jake.

TAPPER: All right. Dr. Sanjay Gupta, thanks so much.

More than 288 thousand to you people have died in the U.S. from COVID, 288,000. We want to take the time right now to remember just one of those lives that of a Houston doctor who worked trying to keep other COVID patients alive.

Dr. Carlos Arajuo-Preza. He was the ICU's critical care doctor at HCA Houston Healthcare. His daughter says his father lived the American dream. He was born in El Salvador. He came to the U.S. for medical school, and became a top respiratory doctor. For weeks, he slept at the hospital so that he could be ready for any

emergency. His family says Dr. Araujo-Preza believed that medicine was his calling. His daughter tells CNN: He was our dad, he was our hero.

May his memory and the memories of all of those we have lost to this horrific pandemic be a blessing and in a special thank you in recognition to health care workers around the world, risking their lives literally to protect us.

Our coverage on CNN continues right now. I'll see you tomorrow.

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