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Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar Interviewed on Rollout of COVID-19 Vaccine; Two Health Care Workers in U.K. Report Allergic Reaction to Pfizer COVID-19 Vaccine; Sen. Joe Manchin (D-WV) is Interviewed About Congress Negotiating a Stimulus Deal. Aired 8- 8:30a ET

Aired December 09, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And where will they go to get vaccinated?

ALEX AZAR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: So we have the Pfizer advisory committee tomorrow, a completely public process. And then if everything is on track, it could be a matter of days, then FDA approves the vaccine. We would then authorize shipment within 24 hours. It would literally go -- this Pfizer vaccine they're shipping directly would go by FedEx and UPS, directly shipped to wherever the governors have told us they want it to go.

So some governors are leveraging the system we set up, CVS and Walgreens, especially for the nursing homes. The initial focus is going to be health care workers and nursing home patients. So CVS and Walgreens are going to do almost 100 percent of the nursing homes in America, so that's a turnkey operation, but then they will also be shipping to hospitals where they'll do mass vaccination campaigns of their health care workers. And 20 million people should get vaccinated in just the next several weeks, and then we will just keep rolling out vaccines through January, February, March as they come off the production lines.

CAMEROTA: And what month do you expect right now average Americans, meaning the general public, to get vaccinated or to have it available to them?

AZAR: So that's going to be up to the nation's governors as they prioritize within their states, but as we look at the quantities of vaccine that we expect to come off from a multitude of manufacturers, you should start seeing at points in February and March general population vaccinations occurring.

What we've said is we expect that in the second quarter of next year we would have enough vaccine for all Americans that want it, but that's not a moment in time event. As more vaccine becomes available, as we perhaps see AstraZeneca, Johnson & Johnson join the ranks, more will be available, and our governors will keep opening it up, and we'll start seeing general vaccination campaigns also, especially the medically underserved and most vulnerable. CAMEROTA: But February and March is before second quarter. It sounds

like you're saying that there could even be a speedier timeline for the general public.

AZAR: Sure. We'll start seeing -- we might see 5 million, 10 million, 20 million doses coming out per week, and the governors will decide how to prioritize and get that out there. But eventually the image you want to see, and this is what we did in the summit yesterday that the president hosted with CVS, Walgreens, FedEx, UPS, McKesson, and our bipartisan group of governors. We want to replicate the experience you have with the flu vaccine, convenient to you, use a tried and true system that we do hundreds of millions of vaccines through every year. So that's really the backbone of the approach that we're taking.

CAMEROTA: There was reporting yesterday that I know that you are aware of and actually responded to, that the administration was offered more doses from Pfizer back in the summer, but only ordered 100 million not knowing if the Pfizer vaccine was going to work, if it was going to be the first out of the gate. In retrospect, was that a mistake? Do you wish you had ordered more doses?

AZAR: So we guaranteed the purchase of 100 million doses of the Pfizer vaccine before they had even initiated phase three clinical trials. They were not willing to give us a concrete date to commit to produce and deliver additional vaccines, so we secured a 500 million option for additional. We have across six manufacturers the ability to purchase up to 3 billion doses of vaccine. We have over the last couple of months been working with Pfizer to secure their commitment and agreement to deliver additional doses under our options by a date certain. We're very optimistic that will happen, but I want the American people to know we'll use every power we have under the Defense Production Act to make sure the American people get what they need.

CAMEROTA: It's 500 million more doses from Pfizer, is that what you're negotiating for?

AZAR: I don't want to get into the details of how much from Pfizer, but we have options that go up to 500 million. Now, of course, they have limited production capacities here in the United States and around the world, and that's why it was so important that we negotiated with five other vaccine companies, securing those commitments for Moderna, for AstraZeneca, for Johnson & Johnson, Sanofi-GSK and Novavax. So those are in play, and we are actually always reviewing our portfolio and deciding which investments we increase, where we buy more from. We're going to have a whole portfolio of vaccines, we believe, which is really an incredible achievement 11 months into this global pandemic that we're even able to talk about this is as, frankly, it's just historic and what a credit to our biomedical institutions here in the United States.

CAMEROTA: Agreed. It is incredible to watch how fast you have all kicked this into gear. And so when I heard you say you were considering using, if needed, the Defense Production Act, what would trigger that? AZAR: Well, we use the Defense Production Act with our manufacturers,

we can help secure raw materials for them, we can buy equipment that's needed, whether it's bioreactors or otherwise, we can transport materials. We literally had for one manufacturer some equipment that was on a train that the train broke down, the military propelled in, got that equipment, and extracted it and transported it to the plant because we don't want to lose a single hour in our manufacturing processes.

[08:05:04]

The work DOD has been doing is just incredible. What a testament to our military and their logistics capabilities. I've been blown away by everything I've seen General Perna and his team do.

CAMEROTA: I want to ask you about President Trump's lawyer Rudy Giuliani and his COVID treatment. He says that he had mild symptoms and didn't feel the need to go to the hospital, but President Trump's doctor insisted. Here is what Rudy Giuliani said on the radio yesterday.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: His doctor sent me here.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK. So --

GIULIANI: He talked me into it. I didn't want to really go to the hospital, and he said, don't be stupid. We can get it over with in three days if we send you -- he says we send you to the hospital.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So that sounds good, Mr. Secretary. Should everyone with mild symptoms go to the hospital for treatment?

AZAR: So, Alisyn, you actually had some of the visiting nurses on earlier, I was watching that segment, and I want to really thank them for their heroic work, and that's part of what we're doing with our -- we have our hospital system right now, and we want to make sure we maximize its capacity. And part of that is making sure we've got nurses and doctors and health care workers around the country who can move around. Part of it is effectively using their therapeutics Operation Warp Speed has brought to the table.

That means that these monoclonal antibodies, convalescent plasma, it's important we get to those early in disease progression, because those are what we call antivirals, they can blunt the replication of the virus, but that gets to them early. And that's before the hospital, it can help keep people out of the hospital. So we are working with our home infusion clinics, our pharmacy chains, I was just meeting with CVS and Walgreens yesterday about this, how can we get people treated earlier, because we want to keep them out of the hospital rather than arrive at the hospital and have to be treated there and take up capacity that we need for, unfortunately, we need for other patients who are in much more severe condition. CAMEROTA: And, by the way, we're having record hospitalizations this

morning, 105,000 Americans are in the hospital. We're hearing from governors, we're hearing from hospital staff. They are at capacity. They have limited ICU beds. And so, again, to the Rudy Giuliani question, why was he able to be admitted to the hospital when so many other people are sent home with mild symptoms?

AZAR: Well, I can't get into -- I wouldn't know the circumstances of any individual patient. But let me just say we built a data system where we have complete visibility now that we share with our governors across all of our hospitals in America. We know their staffing levels, we know their supply levels, we know their ICU capacity, COVID patients, et cetera, that can be a tool to help move patients around, but also we're proactively reaching out to the hospitals, saying we think you're getting low on supplies, can we point you to your state stockpiles, can we help you arrange supplies from the commercial sector, or as a backstop the national stockpile. Can we help with getting staffing? Are you using the therapeutics the right way to keep people out of the hospital? And most importantly, though, for all of us it's good behaviors, it's wash your hands, watch your distance, wear your face coverings, and please as we enter the holiday season, please look out for those overcrowded indoor gatherings, whether its restaurants or bars or multi-household gatherings.

CAMEROTA: Or White House Christmas parties.

AZAR: Just please be careful. You can engage in things, but wear your masks if you're not going to be socially distant, because we let our guard down oftentimes in social situations.

CAMEROTA: We sure do. Obviously, Rudy Giuliani has been seen not wearing a mask a lot. Are you comfortable with the White House Christmas parties coming up?

AZAR: I actually have already attended one of them, and individuals, most of the individuals around me were wearing masks. we worked to keep distance. There was dramatically lower number of people than in past years. So I felt comfortable there. I felt safe. I wore my mask, of course, at all times, and I encourage anybody in any scenario -- our advice is the same no matter what the setting. It's wash your hands, watch your distance, wear your face coverings if you can't watch your distance, especially do not let your guard down in indoor settings.

CAMEROTA: Will you -- Joe Biden has been announcing his cabinet picks. Xavier Becerra for your job, I believe, HHS. Will you be meeting with him?

AZAR: So, first the processes for that are up to the United States Senate, and we will ensure a full cooperative, professional transition. I have already met with the Biden transition team, we want to make sure they get everything that they need. And, of course, I will be in touch with him as is appropriate. One has to be respectful of the Senate confirmation processes, but I'll be in touch. I want to ensure that any transition is as smooth, as professional as possible, because we are about ensuring the health and well-being of the American people, and that's what matters to me.

CAMEROTA: So, yes -- so, yes, you will be meeting with him, but no date certain?

AZAR: Right. I will be happy to -- I'm going to do anything I need to do to make sure no balls are dropped in terms of protecting the American people.

CAMEROTA: Secretary Alex Azar, we appreciate your time this morning. Thanks so much for all of the information.

AZAR: Thank you. Good to be with you.

CAMEROTA: You, too.

[08:10:06]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Really interesting discussion. And joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. A bunch of news in there, Sanjay. Can I start, though, with the news that broke this morning, because the secretary did address it at the beginning. This is the news out of the United Kingdom that two health care workers had adverse reactions to the Pfizer coronavirus vaccine, and now there's a new warning from health officials in the U.K. that people who have severe allergic reactions to vaccines, medicines, or food shouldn't get the vaccine right away. The news in that interview was that Secretary Azar actually learned it from crack reporter Alisyn Camerota, but said that he does suspect it is something the FDA will look at over the next 24 hours. What did you hear there?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no, exactly that. I was surprised that he hadn't heard that, either. I think it is important news. I don't know that's going to change necessarily the authorization process going forward by the FDA. We do know that adverse reactions, these types of allergic reactions can occur. It's just it's hard to know just with what frequency so far. Thousands of patients may have had vaccinated yesterday in the U.K. What percentage does this represent?

But there's a couple things, as you pointed out. One is we're getting a better idea of who actually developed these allergic reactions. They were two health care workers. We also know that they had a history, a significant history of adverse reactions themselves. And what does that mean? They had a history of allergic reactions significant enough that they carried these EpiPens with them. So that should give you some idea of sort of the types of patients that they are talking about here.

The guidance now coming out of NHS is anybody with a severe allergy to foods, medicines, or vaccines in the past should not be receiving this vaccine. Now, that may just be precautionary guidance, it may change. One thing I do want to point out, we are looking at the Pfizer documents that were released earlier this week. Within the trial they actually excluded people with a previous history of severe allergic reactions to the vaccine. So some of what we're seeing we may be seeing for the first time as these humans are receiving this outside of a clinical trial.

CAMEROTA: I just worry, Sanjay, as I know you do, too, giving people who have vaccine hesitancy any cause or anxiety, since they are already skittish about this, and even if it's one in a million, it's like they fasten on that one. There could be an allergic reaction, something bad could happen. And so, obviously it's our job to keep putting all of this in context.

GUPTA: Yes, I think this is not to be ignored by any means. I think people say allergic reaction, not a big deal. The two workers we should point out, are doing fine. They've recovered completely. But I think it is really important to understand what exactly happened there, and what did they react to? Was it something in the vaccine, was it the way that it was stored, was there an additive of some sort? That's going to be really important, and I think probably that investigation is already sort of beginning.

But I completely agree with you, Alisyn, and I think it will be a big topic tomorrow at this committee meeting for that very reason. Sixty percent of the country right now, only 60 percent, says that they would take the vaccine. You have got to address these things that may lead to increased vaccine hesitancy head-on. I don't think you can shy away from them.

BERMAN: One other piece of news that I think may have slipped past some people as it was happening, Secretary Azar said that he had personally met with members of the Biden transition. Now, I don't think we knew that. I actually don't think that any cabinet secretary has met -- that we are aware of any cabinet secretary from the Trump administration meeting with Biden transition officials. We'll look into that. But certainly, I didn't know that Alex Azar had. That's not uninteresting, Sanjay, because what it shows is that there is a level of coordination all the way to the highest point in terms of this incredibly sensitive area which deals with the pandemic. I suppose that's encouraging.

GUPTA: Yes, it's interesting. I spoke to Dr. Fauci right after he spoke to President-elect Biden about taking this job as chief medical adviser. That day he also met with what's called this action review team, ART, it's part of the transition teams as he described them. He's been through this process a bunch of times. And that was all focused on coronavirus and the vaccine rollout and therapeutics and things like that.

I don't know at what point Secretary Azar met with people from the transition team and with who specifically, but there are these specific subgroups that are happening right now under the transition really focused on COVID. So Dr. Fauci was there but also Jeffrey Zients, Vivek Murthy, David Kessler, people like that all coming together remotely to basically discuss this. And there's a lot of crossover, even with these vaccine rollout plans that are happening this week, states actually having to submit their plans. Perhaps that was the inflection point.

[08:15:10] CAMEROTA: And that is comforting to know that at least the, you know, wheels are churning of progress even though President Trump isn't acknowledging the outcome.

Sanjay, thank you very much for all of the information.

GUPTA: Yeah, thank you.

So, the White House's latest proposal for stimulus checks comes with a catch. We talked to a senator who is part of the bipartisan talks and where they stand, next.

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BERMAN: Developing overnight, a new twist in the talks over economic relief which so many Americans so desperately need this morning just weeks before the holidays. The Trump administration has now proposed a plan of more than $900 billion, but -- and this is big -- it would not include increased weekly payments unemployment benefits, instead it would provide a one time stimulus check to qualified Americans.

Joining me now, really the man at the center of the bipartisan negotiations over a deal, Democratic Senator Joe Manchin of West Virginia.

Senator, thanks so much for being with us.

Let me just start --

SEN. JOE MANCHIN (D-WV): Always good to be with you, John. Thank you.

BERMAN: How close are you to a deal this morning?

MANCHIN: We're close.

BERMAN: How close?

MANCHIN: We really are, John.

Let me just say this -- we are the only group that's bipartisan and bicameral. We have Democrats and Republicans that started working immediately after the election because we could see the desperate need.

[08:20:01]

Things are running out in December. People are going to lose their lifelines, if you will. Unemployment runs out. Food assistance needed now more than ever. Housing and people getting evicted -- all the things that you would think are necessities in life and a lifeline.

So, we knew we had to do something. We're the only bipartisan group that's involved right now.

We've been -- we started out in November 4th or 5th, and we have stayed together ever since. We are very close now. You will be seeing an awful lot of language coming out now that's more particular of how we've been able to do it.

We called a section by section summary. We break the bill down. We are ready to write the bill. And we have two areas that they are still being worked on right now that are the most contentious, which is the liability.

How do we protect the workers but how do we protect the businesses? It shouldn't be one on the other. We give more protection here and not here, and how do we make sure that the workplace is safe?

We have smart people, good lawyers who are working on that. We can come to an agreement unless someone just wants to be against the bill and blow it up, John.

The other is how do we get help to states and localities? This emergency COVID relief package is strictly an emergency relief. It's not a do-all, end-all.

Joe Biden said it best, it's a down payment. He becomes our president, he basically steps in there, he evaluates the situation, he puts something up if we need more to keep the economy from falling apart. Vaccines coming on, we know that.

People are not going to make it from this time forward from December if this all goes for naught until February or March before we can get another package out. They are not going to make it.

BERMAN: There's -- there's a lot of substances here, if I can run down some of the points --

MANCHIN: Sure.

BERMAN: -- here to figure out where things are.

MANCHIN: Sure. BERMAN: Let's start with what the White House proposed yesterday, which was a plan of more than $900 billion, but it doesn't include the increased weekly unemployment benefits, includes one-time stimulus checks to qualified Americans.

Your feeling on that?

MANCHIN: John, the only thing I would say is, you know, first of all, they are at least all agreeing that $900 billion is what needs to be done immediately. So we had come to that conclusion a long time ago. I'm happy that everybody is coalesced around that.

But to say that I'm going to send -- we only have X amount of dollars and I'm going to send checks to people that still have a job, still have a paycheck coming in but I'm going to ignore and not help the people who are still unemployed or becoming more unemployed because this pandemic is ravaging, I don't think that makes any sense to anybody.

There's no compassion. We're trying to help in an emergency way. We want to send stimulus checks if we could. We can't get our Republican colleagues above the 908.

With that being said, we were all asking for a minimum of 1.2 to 1.3. Could not do that. We wanted to stay at 500, or 600 which did not take care of the emergency needs.

So, we came together as Republicans and Democrats working together the way we are supposed to --

BERMAN: Got you.

MANCHIN: -- with a moderate emergency deal.

Now, everyone is trying to figure different ways around it but none are bipartisan --

BERMAN: Got you.

MANCHIN: -- and they have no language at all, John. No language to them.

BERMAN: So, basically what you're saying is you don't like that plan, stimulus --

(CROSSTALK)

MANCHIN: The plan won't work that way.

BERMAN: Okay.

MANCHIN: It makes no sense.

BERMAN: Other specifics, Mitch McConnell has proposed removing those two areas which you deemed as contentious, the aid to state and local governments and also the issue of liability protection, saying do a deal without either of those two things.

Your feeling on that this morning?

MANCHIN: John, here's where we are, if you are a Republican and you think the most important thing needs to be done is to protect our businesses, I'm not disagreeing with you. I want to protect our workers in the workplace, too.

So, Democrats want a liability protection bill that makes sense, that doesn't just throw caution to the wind and allow just immunity -- immunity for whatever, a five-year deal.

We think it needs to be done to protect until we know more of people who are reckless and careless and doesn't care about their workers or their employees or their customers. We want to make sure that's protected so you're not sued out of business. But with that, a reasonable, responsible deal.

So, on that one, if that was the thing he was hanging his hat to, that nothing will pass, and he gets -- he gets immunity, now, he's willing to throw that to the side because they hate helping states and localities.

We have states in emergency situations that have lost their revenue, the pandemic has shut down their businesses, their economy is ravaged, and all we're saying is they have to show there is nothing going to go out the door -- we're not just going to send checks out the door unless you can show that you have a need for it. That you have expenses, that you -- I mean, front-line workers are going to be laid off and basically, your revenues fall far short of where we normally have operated.

So, essential workers don't get laid off. That's the main thing. They don't care about that.

But right now, we do. We have Democrats and Republicans that are looking at a deal and that's the two things we will hopefully work out today, no later than tomorrow.

[08:25:00]

BERMAN: Today, or no later tomorrow. So, that's a time frame there.

Let me ask --

MANCHIN: John, we are putting a lot of language. You're going to see 90 percent of the bill today.

BERMAN: I can't wait. I think we are all looking forward to it and I think Americans are depending on it, Senator.

MANCHIN: Absolutely.

BERMAN: If I can ask you, the Defense Authorization Act yesterday passed the House with a veto-proof majority, the Senate will vote likely with a veto-proof majority today. The president has threatened to veto it because of Internet measures and also because of naming bases or renaming bases that are right now named for disgraced Confederate generals.

What do you think of the president's veto threat here?

MANCHIN: Well, the president needs to look realistically that it was a bipartisan group that wants to rename some of these bases that were named during the Jim Crow area -- Jim Crow era. That's all.

I mean, everyone -- it's pretty evident you just look at the history on how they became named and things that have that sort. And it's time to change. It's time for us to move forward.

BERMAN: Right.

MANCHIN: So, he has to look at that. And I think Democrats and Republicans will stand tall on this one, I sure pray to God they do, and then from that standpoint to threaten to veto the NDAA, the National Defense Authorization which runs our military, which keeps the defense of our country and that's who we are. Now, you can't basically say I'm all for the military, I'm the

strongest president that there's ever been, and I'm going to defend this country and also veto because of your perk against something that you think has not been -- has not been flattery to you.

Two -- Section 230, I want to change 230.

BERMAN: Right.

MANCHIN: I don't think -- I don't think Internet companies should have this type of protection that they are not held accountable and responsible for the stuff they allow on their platforms.

BERMAN: Let me -- let me ask you very quickly about the presidential election which was over a long time ago and the Supreme Court refused to weigh in on it yesterday saying the results in Pennsylvania effectively stand.

The only people unwilling to say it's over are apparently the president of the United States and Republicans in Congress.

"The Washington Post" reached out to all 249 Republicans in the House and Senate, only 27 acknowledged Biden won the election, only 32 said they will accept Biden as a legitimate president after the Electoral College votes, which is Monday. Two said no and the rest declined to answer.

So what do you say to your Republican colleagues who refuse to say this is over, Joe Biden won?

MANCHIN: You know, I think all of us at one time or another in our life had to confront a bully and a bully basically you regretted going to school, you knew it was going to be a difficult day, you knew that this misery and just -- just kind of avoided it, avoid it had and did everything you could.

Then one day you had the courage to say, okay, enough is enough. If I get a bloody nose today, I get a bloody nose, but my golly, I'm going to stand up and stop this once and for all.

That's exactly where my Democrat -- my Republican friends -- and I really consider every one of them to be a friend -- this is where they are. It's time to stand up to the bully. It's time to basically say, enough is enough. If I get my nose bloody that means if you lose in the election then you lost it defending the oath that you took to defend the Constitution. That's all. That's all I'm saying.

This is not right and you can't let anybody get by with it. Whether it's a Democrat or Republican, this is not right. Stand up and say enough is enough.

The worst that can happen is a bloody nose. That's it. And usually more than not, you're going to swing back and they're going to say, oh, my goodness, here is 240 coming at me, I can't take those all on, so I'm going to take another approach.

I think that's what needs to be done. But we'll see. We'll see if they're strong enough to do it.

I think they are. I really do.

BERMAN: Senator --

MANCHIN: And you know what? They've all been certified, John. It's over. It is over.

Joe Biden is going to be our president and that's going to be soon. So let's go.

BERMAN: Senator Joe Manchin, please keep us posted as to these relief negotiations because, man, does this matter for so many people. We appreciate it.

MANCHIN: Watch today, John. We'll send everything out. We'll post it and get it to you.

BERMAN: All right. Come back on and we'll talk about it more. Thanks, Senator.

MANCHIN: Sure thing. OK, bye-bye, thank you.

BERMAN: So people in nursing homes could get the coronavirus vaccine just days after it is authorized. How will that work exactly? Much more on that, next.

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