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Cuomo Prime Time
Electoral College Cements President-Elect Joe Biden's Victory; Biden Delivers Strongest Rebuke Yet Of Trump's False Election Fraud Claims After Winning Electoral College Vote; First Vaccinations Underway As U.S. COVID-19 Death Toll Tops 300,000. Aired 9-10p ET
Aired December 14, 2020 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
ANDERSON COOPER, CNN HOST, ANDERSON COOPER 360: Chris?
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST, CUOMO PRIME TIME: Remarkable indeed! We're making the right kind of history, here, making some progress, democracy in work, and now comes, the vaccine, our first good chance to really limit the exposure here. So, Anderson, thank you very much for carrying the coverage.
I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
Big day for our country, you heard Coop, he's right, and on two of the most important fronts. America's big win in court Friday meant that our democracy could advance today.
And, so, today the Electoral College met. The electors cemented President-elect Biden's victory. Re-Trump-lican threats to stall it amounted to nothing, once again. 538 electors from all 50 states and Washington D.C. reaffirming the votes cast by you, more than 150 million Americans.
And with this validation of the victory came the vindication of a leader who wants to actually lead through hard times, his call to common concern, Biden's call to coming together.
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JOE BIDEN (D) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: What beats deep in the hearts of the American people is this: Democracy, the right to be heard, to have your vote counted, to choose leaders of this nation, to govern ourselves.
In America, politicians don't take power. People grant power to them. The flame of democracy was lit in this nation a long time ago. And we now know nothing, not even a pandemic or an abuse of power can extinguish that flame.
It is my sincere hope we never again see anyone subjected to the kind of threats and abuse, we saw, in this election. It's simply unconscionable.
Even more stunning, 17 Republican attorneys general and 126 Republican Members of the Congress actually, they actually signed on to a lawsuit filed by the State of Texas.
Democracy prevailed. We, the people, voted. Faith in our institutions held. The integrity of our elections remains intact. And now it's time to turn the page, as we have done throughout our history, to unite, to heal.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: A sense of history and hope. Gone are the days of histrionics and things that seem like they could only come from a dope.
Biden was in his strongest voice to date, clearing the deck of BS attempts to keep us off-course, a promise of a steady hand at the helm and best efforts to focus on getting us to calmer seas.
And his call came, as the country took another huge step toward getting better, we hope. Vaccines started today, the same day that we passed 300,000 dead. Painful reminder of the price we've paid!
Now, I know you're used to morbid milestones being ignored by the people in charge. But they are in the past. Biden today changed course from "Us versus them" to just "Us." And he did what our leader should do in the face of so many lost. He grieved.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BIDEN: 300,000 deaths due to this COVID virus, my heart goes out to each of you in this dark winter of the pandemic.
My heart goes out to all of you who have fallen on hard times, through no fault of your own, unable to sleep at night, staring at the ceiling, weighed down by the worry of what tomorrow will bring for you and, equally important, for your family.
But we've faced difficult times, before, in our history. I know we'll get through this one, but together, that's how we get through it together. So, as we start the hard work to be done, may this moment give us the strength to rebuild this house of ours upon a rock that can never be washed away.
As in the prayer of Saint Francis, "For where there is discord, union. Where there is doubt, faith. Where there is darkness, light," this is who we are as a nation. This is the America we love.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: It is a blessing during these hard days, to hear "We" more than "I" from the person in charge, to hear his faith at least as a motivator of loving mercy, not as a separator.
The best sign, though, of better days to come is that the news of progress and unity is at the top tonight. Not the noise, not the non- troversy of Republicans like Senator Lindsey Graham.
He is where he belongs, at the bottom, still refusing to acknowledge Joe Biden as President-elect tonight because he claims Trump still has a narrow path to victory, a claim that is pathological.
[21:05:00]
Trump's contribution to the day? Chasing out another minion who dared say something true, tweeting that his Attorney General wouldn't be back because he wouldn't back his fraud claims. So now, he's stepping down before Congress.
That of course is A.G. Bill Barr, lowered the bar on any notion of good service to you, basically just did Trump's bidding. He should be remembered for trying to squash the impact of the Mueller report and other misfeasance.
Just one time he sided with the truth, and he's gone. The Re-Trump- licans now call him a Deep-Stater. Well their last stand will be January 6th. Now, that is the next day to watch. That's when Congress meets to certify the electors' vote.
If you need one final measure of Biden, against who he just ousted, we all know what the loser has been up to for the last few weeks, right? How did the winner handle it when it was his time to swallow a transition he did not like?
We know, because Biden was the one who oversaw the count of Trump's victory on January 6th, 2017. It was Biden who quieted down Democrats, on Trump's behalf, and read the final numbers aloud.
Remember this?
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. PRAMILA JAYAPAL (D-WA): Mr. President, the objection is signed by a Member of the House but not yet by a Member of the Senate.
BIDEN: Well, it is over.
(APPLAUSE)
BIDEN: The whole number of electors appointed to vote for President of the United States is 538, of which a majority is 270. Donald Trump, of New
York, has received for President of the United States 304 votes; Hillary Clinton, of the State of New York, has received 227 votes.
The Chair declares the joint session dissolved.
(GAVEL BANGS)
(CHEERS AND APPLAUSE)
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: He did his job. Biden got a standing ovation from Republicans then when he did his duty.
Will Pence even show up? Will Re-Trump-licans do anything to salvage a whisper of dignity amid the insane cries of conspiracy? On one level, who cares? But in times as hard as these, the more hands on deck, the better.
And let me be very clear about something. Trump tweeted that Barr isn't coming back after Christmas. I am saying we don't know why from him, but I think we do know why, right?
Because the only thing that's changed is that one thing that he said about there being no fraud in this election, and all the sudden, all the knives were out, and now sure enough, he's leaving. Trump didn't say it, but all the circumstances do.
Let's bring in power players about what today means, and where we are going forward, David Gregory, Michael Smerconish, good news, both.
The idea, Michael, of a narrow path, that would have to be a manipulation on a political level because I can't see any path legally.
Even though I got to tell you that Wisconsin Supreme Court going 4-3, I had to ask for the dissent. It's hard to see how it went 4-3. I don't see how the three dissented. Even reading the dissent, it didn't make sense based on the record.
But what is the path?
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN HOST, "SMERCONISH," CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR, HOST, "MICHAEL SMERCONISH PROGRAM" ON SIRIUSXM: There is none. The goalposts keep moving, right?
It was November 3rd. And then it was today. Now it's January 6th. And trust me, Chris, when we get to January 6th, it will be "Well, you know," Stephen Miller actually said this today. The only date referenced in the Constitution is January 20th.
There is no conclusion I can reach other than, at this stage, it's a cash grab. It is a fundraising tool, to provide him, on his way out the door, with enough of a financial base that he can continue to dominate the Party going forward, influence elections, establish a shadow presidency, hire a staff, travel, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Right now, it's all about the money. Maybe not up until today, but from this point forward, it surely is.
CUOMO: That special election also looms large, but that's obviously going to happen before the 6th date. But I take your point.
Now, David, interestingly, haven't heard Biden go after the people going after him, like he did tonight. However, he did not put a consequence on the 126. He did not put a consequence on the group I call the Re-Trump-licans. He just said it shouldn't have happened. We should be better than this.
What do you make of the play?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": I thought it was strong, you know?
I think that he's got to focus on a couple things right now, getting America's attention focused on a better response to the pandemic. And he's got a political base to stand up for, and a democracy to stand up for. And that's what he did tonight.
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The people voted. Democracy was protected. Our judges, appointed by President Trump, other Republicans and Democrats, they did their job the way they were supposed to. They stood up as an institution for our democracy and for the will of the people.
He had to come out there and defend that today, and I think he did that, and that's important. He probably remembers what former Vice President Dick Cheney said during a divisive time in 2000, which is, "It's go time."
"You got to lead like you mean it," I'm paraphrasing here, but you've got to full-steam ahead, and that's what the Bush-Cheney administration did at that time, after a disputed election. And that was - it was a much different situation.
There is room now for Biden - first of all, there's a special election. He wants to reach out to Republicans over time.
He's got an obligation, I think, Chris, to say to his own Democrats, "Look, we have to stop delegitimizing people, too. We tried to delegitimize Trump. And we have to deal with that, if we want Republicans to do the same." I think he's got room to do that. He's got time to do that.
Now, he had to stand up for the fact that we had a very successful election that it was fair. It was free. It was during the pandemic. It was a triumph of democracy that ought to be celebrated, despite the interference that came from our existing president.
CUOMO: It was interesting celebration, Michael, to use David's word.
Arizona, the electors met in an undisclosed location. Wisconsin, they met and used an unmarked entrance, and a police escort to get there. Michigan House and Senate Offices were closed to the public after credible threats of violence.
This is a tough situation Biden is coming into, not to mention pandemic.
SMERCONISH: Yes, sad the way it was carried out. But, in the end, I'll take solace, in the fact that it was remarkably routine.
I mean weren't we told that there would be alternative slates of electors put forth in several battlegrounds? None of that materialized. So, it was interesting to watch and to observe.
I paid close attention today. But, in the end, beyond the way it had to be done in the shadows, there really wasn't any kind of a revolt that had been anticipated.
CUOMO: So now, it's all about, I think, for Biden, it's got to be all about the vaccine, right? Let me get your take on, from each of them.
Michael, I'll start with you. The vaccine starts going out today. I mean that really is the main measure of progress for us going forward. He's got to change his messaging. He's got to get PPE available to people. Testing is going to take a backseat because it's very hard to show success with it, seems to be all about the vaccine.
SMERCONISH: I agree with David in terms of the remarks that were made by the President-elect today. I thought they were spot-on. I don't think that they'll move the needle with people who didn't vote for him. Frankly, I don't think that any words are going to change the dynamics.
What could change the dynamics, and the President-elect, you know, spoke of a unifying moment, distribution of that vaccine, because, Chris, in a matter of, what, 40 days now, the ball gets tossed into his lap, and this distribution effort, which needs to continue for the next six months, is a massive undertaking.
And if it doesn't go well, you know we're going to blame the individual at the top. So, he's got to deliver, through his actions, and he's going to be presented with that opportunity.
CUOMO: And Biden is not going to be able to play every card that Trump did. I mean that guy is a master at getting himself out of responsibility. Biden is not.
GREGORY: But you pointed to it Chris earlier.
SMERCONISH: Well there's no doubt - yes.
GREGORY: I'm sorry. Go ahead. Go ahead, Sir.
CUOMO: No. Go ahead. David, make the point, because I got to jump.
SMERCONISH: No. I was simply going to say--
GREGORY: Yes.
SMERCONISH: Go ahead, go ahead, David.
CUOMO: Well now it's a mess.
GREGORY: I was just going to say - I was going to say--
CUOMO: Hold on a second. Now it's a mess!
Michael, make your final point, and then David will pick it up, and end the segment. Go ahead, Michael.
SMERCONISH: My final point is you're not going to see the President- elect holding rallies for 20,000 people, getting his message out, and working the Twitter account. I think, frankly, that's part of the reason why so many did vote for him.
CUOMO: Good point!
Go ahead, my Gucci brother. What do you have?
GREGORY: I think, you know, what Anthony Fauci talks about uniformity, right, in the response, we haven't had that, you know? And we haven't had it for a number of reasons.
One of those reasons has been the guy at the top, the President, who was only talking about the vaccine being around the corner, and a bunch of happy-talk, and not doing what Biden did, which is to talk about the darkness that people feel if they lost someone.
So, this is where coordination matters between the federal government and the states. I think that's what can move the needle, is if all the sudden, we kind of slide back into something that looks a little bit more like normal government.
And this is going to be a big test, how well we roll this out, how fairly it's rolled out, the access to it, and the messaging around the safety of the vaccine, so people take it in large numbers.
CUOMO: Well here is what we know for sure. Biden has to do what is easy to do because this vaccine is going to be a bear.
It's amazing that it exists. But in our next segment, we're going to go through all the things that need to happen for it to be something short of a disappointment, and it's fairly daunting.
Michael Smerconish, David Gregory, thank you, fellas. Be well.
GREGORY: Thanks.
SMERCONISH: Thank you.
[21:15:00]
CUOMO: OK, so this is it, man. And we are all over the vaccination effort.
We have to be, just like we were with cases, man. We showed you where we were on the way down with this, and we needed to because you had to be aware, especially with the person at the top lying to you and saying that it was a hoax.
But now, we have to start showing what this vaccine does, showing the distribution, where is it right? Where is it wrong? What states are being made? What choices are being made? Who's getting it? Who isn't?
Is the distribution right? Is the distribution from the Fed to the state right? Is enough of it being made? Is the money getting where it has to be? Are the states and localities getting the money they need, in order to get the vaccine to the people who do need it?
I'm telling you, this is a sticky wicket. This is tricky business. And we're going to bring in former Acting CDC Director because he knows what it takes. It is amazing we have the vaccine. Without that, nothing, but the logistics are a nightmare. Next.
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TEXT: CUOMO PRIME TIME.
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TEXT: LET'S GET AFTER IT.
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CUOMO: What a day, such profound reason for hurt today, just as we finally get reason for hope. The vaccine is here, and we have news on how we're going to get you inside the effort to distribute this all over the country. And we'll share that in a bit.
But the ray of light of the vaccine comes in some hell of a shadow, 300,000 COVID deaths now. 300,000! And there's no sign of that rate slowing. Cases new high tonight, hospitalizations new high, more than 110,000 are now in hospital beds. Daily cases just broke the record again, 250,000 for the first time.
Doctors, nurses fighting this, the vaccine finally gives them something that feels that they have a chance to keep fighting.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DR. STELLA OGAKE, PULMONARY & CRITICAL CARE PHYSICIAN: I would say this is a very exciting moment. It's very surreal as well. But for us, who are in the front lines, taking care of these patients, it is such a moment of hope because we can see the light.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This is hope. This is hope that we can start to really flatten the curve and really turn things around for us.
DR. LENA NAPOLITANO, ICU DIRECTOR: Most, of our staff, including me, as Director of the ICU, are fearful. You know, we are exposed to it every minute of every day. So, I can't tell you how much this means to me.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
CUOMO: And it's so sad on one level that they need to have this kind of desperation. Can you imagine all the people who do that job, and the families who love them, who've had to watch as people parade around this country, not wearing them as a sign of defiance?
Hope is good, but it can be defined as, as yet experience disappointment, if we don't do things that we need. Now that involves how you roll out this vaccine, which is a bear, and the things that you need to keep doing, in fact, more than ever or the vaccine won't do what it can.
Dr. Richard Besser joins me now. No better guest to have on this.
Always good to see you, Doc.
DR. RICHARD BESSER, FORMER CDC ACTING DIRECTOR, PRESIDENT & CEO, ROBERT WOOD JOHNSON FOUNDATION: Great to be here, Chris.
CUOMO: So, big day! Give me a sense of what you think this means.
BESSER: Well, I mean this is a monumental day for us.
It's something I never would have imagined that within a year of identifying a new infectious agent, a new virus, we would have a vaccine that is being administered to people that is safe and is effective and it gives up hope.
On one of the darkest days in this pandemic, we finally have a ray of hope towards the way out of this.
CUOMO: The big threat, and I'm already hearing, you know, I do a radio show on Sirius. I do the show here at night.
There are so many people who believe "It is over, the vaccine is here. We can finally breathe a sigh of relief, and not worry so much about all these crazy restrictions. I hope the restaurants will stay open now."
None of that is living in the reality that we're actually in, is it?
BESSER: Yes. I mean, we have to drill home the message that this vaccine, as wonderful as it is, is not going to change the trajectory of what we experience this winter.
It's not going to change what we need to do. It's not going to change the need for us all to wear masks and social distance and wash our hands.
And it's not going to change the reality that if Congress doesn't put money in people's pockets, doesn't protect people from eviction, doesn't provide the means for people to stay home, if they're sick, or they've been exposed, we are going to continue to see the devastating impact on communities of color.
And we're going to see hundreds of thousands of people lose their lives, lives that - lives that could have been saved, if Congress had done their job, and the American people had come together.
CUOMO: Now, let's take the tail end of that, which is the money that they are going to give out, assuming they ever make a deal. It doesn't look like they're going to break out, as a one-off, the money for the vaccine. So, there are two bundles of cash we have to watch in there. One is money for manufacturing. And, like I said, again, they have two
competing issues right now for relief, but there is no stand-alone just for that money. That's unfortunate.
The second one is they don't want to help local governments and states. They see it as a Blue-state bailout. How important are the local governments and states? They keep saying, "Well, the military is doing all the work. It's all the Fed and the military."
BESSER: Yes.
CUOMO: "The states and locals, they don't really matter." What's the reality?
BESSER: I mean it's absolutely essential.
[21:25:00]
I am on the New Jersey Restart and Recovery Commission and the seven- state commission for the northeast. And states are desperate. States have to balance their budget. And, right now, states need additional money for vaccine distribution.
And, in particular, they need money to be able to work at the local level, to engage trusted voices, because if we have a vaccine that's safe and effective, and if the communities that are most affected by the pandemic don't trust that it's safe, because of generations of maltreatment by the health care system, and the public health system, then that is a true calamity.
So, we need money at the local level to be able to address that with trusted voices, whether they, be faith leaders, or local medical people, or community organizing. That costs money to get that done.
CUOMO: So, I started making a list today, of what are the variables here, logistically, in terms of getting it done. And I talked to some procurement people in the private sector, in the public sector.
I came up with 25 things fast that started with the "How you make it? Are the doses uniform? Are they packaged the right way? Are they transported the right way? Are they logistically handled in a right amount of time that deal with the packaging sensitivities that both of these Pfizer certainly, but Moderna also, have in terms of temperature."
Then you get to the states, and it's a whole new thicket of what choices they make, and how quickly they execute those choices. No matter what the military does, it's almost over for them once they drop it off. How big is the logistical task here?
BESSER: Oh, it's absolutely enormous. We've never, in our country's history, attempted to do something on this scale, at this speed. And it's all about saving lives. And so, it has to be done quickly.
And each state - CDC has given guidance in terms of what should be the first two groups to get the vaccine. But this first vaccine coming forward has requirements in terms of temperature that have never been there before for a vaccine.
And, so, imagine a rural community, and the idea of being able to keep a vaccine, at minus 94 degrees Fahrenheit, that's not possible. So, states have to be creative. They have to either get the vaccine to people, or bring people to the vaccine, if they want to save lives in each community.
CUOMO: One other quick thing and it's going to be huge, OK?
You're in a population center. It's a pain in the ass to get the thing, right? There's a long line. You got to get an appointment. The appointments all the way, you know, you got to work. You don't want to do it. You don't even think you're going to get this thing.
You get the vaccine. Now you need a second one. That in of itself is a universe we've never handled here before, let alone leaving it to all the different states to do.
So, what do we know about how to track that second dose, because we know how important it is. The curves on how strong this thing is, if it's just one dose, is not very promising.
BESSER: As a pediatrician, we know that kids need multiple doses to be fully protected. But we've never had to do this on this scale for the entire nation.
And the idea that we're going to be tracking this all with cards is going to make it very challenging. Each person who gets vaccinated will get a little vaccine card to record it on.
We have underinvested in our public health system over generations. And because of that, we don't have in place the tracking systems to be able to track across states as people move, as they have, different products, and we're going to pay the price of that.
But states are going to get it done. And they need the resources to be able to enact the plans that they've laid out.
CUOMO: It's just they've never done this before, calling up people, and saying, "Hey, man, you got to get your second dose. It's about to expire." And "Yes, I don't want to come. It hurt the first time. I feel fine."
This is going to be hard, even contact tracing, the stories that we haven't covered of how many people lie, and they don't want to answer the phone, and they don't want to tell you things, and they don't want to give you information. This is all really hard, and we've never done it before at this scale.
Dr. Richard Besser, I will be relying on you, early and often, to help us through the situations that arise. God bless and be well, brother.
BESSER: You too, Chris.
CUOMO: All right, now, look, I know it seems like we're a little obsessive about this. I am, OK? And I'll tell you why. The vaccine is an extraordinary struck of good fortune for us. We should have never had it this fast.
Operation Warp Speed, they're going to write books, and probably make movies about it because we don't even understand how they made it happen this fast. I'm not questioning the safety. The data is what it is.
But how do you keep track of all these things? They say people aren't going to want to take this. I think we're going to have the opposite problem. And because of that - it's not a problem. It's a challenge. It's good that people want to be protected if it's safe.
We are launching an important new segment here on PRIME TIME. And I think I'm going to be doing it every night, OK?
We're calling it "Vacci-Nation." You know the way we do "Ameri-CAN?" It's Vaccination but Vacci-Nation, right, because it's all over the nation. That's the idea I want, in your head, about this, OK?
It can't be trust but verify with this. Trust can only come after we verify. The hard truth is we've never done anything like this ever. And what a shame to have something that could make a difference, and then it doesn't get where it needs to be.
[21:30:00]
The sight of those first vaccines, going into the arms of Americans, it's beautiful. It's beautiful, all right? More are heading to every corner of this land, but how much? Is it right? Is it proportionate?
Do some people get too much? And what about those then don't have enough? Is there any kind of sharing? How do you figure it out? Which communities is it going to? What type of people in those communities? Are we exacerbating problems of inequality here? See?
So, to break the chain of transmission, we're going to need 200 million people to be vaccinated in this country. That's 400 million doses.
Remember, you need two, right? You need two of the same vaccine. Does that mean you can't get one Moderna and one Pfizer? I don't know. Right now, they're saying it's got to be the same one. I don't know.
Compare it to the flu, all right? This season, 194 million to 198 million doses of the flu vaccine were expected in the United States. Go back to polio. It took three years to get 100 million Americans the vaccine. We're better now, but how much?
The only way forward is something we've not seen enough from too many who sit in places of leadership. Transparency, OK?
The hard data that you've become used to with this virus, it matters more with the vaccine than it does with the cases, see, because the cases, it's really just a roadmap for you, to understand the urgency. And by and large, it was ignored, OK?
But we used all the maps of "States are up. And here's it down. Here's how much. Here's the color coding. Here's the thing," why, because we wanted you to get it. We wanted an interconnectedness, an interdependence.
We failed, OK? Our case load is way higher than it was supposed to be because we failed.
Place-by-place hospitalization numbers, confirmed cases, to try and take the doubt out of it, we were forced to do that because we had this bizarro situation of the person at the top of the food chain telling you that we were lying about the urgency. We've never had to deal with that either, and hopefully we never have to again ever. Ever!
The bottom line is we don't have enough information to make those kinds of graphs yet. But we will, OK? We're going to need it.
Information about where the vaccine is, and where it isn't, and in what percentages, is going to be more important than it was with cases, why, because you weren't worried that there weren't enough cases in your area.
You will be worried there isn't enough vaccine. People will start to see the changes in communities because of the vaccine. They're going to want to. We'll see that it is safe. We're not, you know, we got to be honest about it.
I care as much as you do. I don't know where I am on the list because even though we maybe, be considered essential workers, I don't know, I had it. I have the antibodies. They still say I still need it. But I don't need it as soon. So, we'll figure it out. We'll figure it out together.
But you're going to want to know where it is. And you're going to want to know why you don't have it. And you're going to want to know why some people, where you live, have it, and you don't. You're going to want to know, all right?
And it is our job to help you know. So, here's what we know tonight, OK?
In Ohio, hospitals in Columbus and in Cincinnati, those two cities got their first supply of 975 doses, each, this morning, OK? Now, that's nothing. It's going to be something to the people who get it though, right? Those are two big population centers.
But it matters that Cleveland wasn't first. Why not? It's the biggest. Because they're seeing more hospitalizations than Cincinnati or Columbus. The good news, two hospitals in Cleveland are on the short list to get shipments tomorrow. But see, that's the kind of thing we have to analyze.
If Cleveland's seeing more cases of hospitalizations, why didn't they get it first? You see what I'm saying? That's the question that is relevant. And we could now follow up and go and we'll ask. And that's exactly what the hell we're going to do. Illinois, the trend of new case is lower than Ohio, got a lot more doses today. 43,000 arrived this morning compared to less than 2,000 in Ohio. Is that fair? Seems so! Does it play out that way? Are there competing interests? We would investigate.
Right now, on day one, it's too early to say what's behind that discrepancy other than what I just told you. But we have to be able to track it every day. We have to be able to trace things down.
The problem is there is no national system. There is no Big Brother watching this. There is no better mind. There is no better answer. There is no "Don't worry, they know." There is no "They."
We, the interconnectedness, the interconnection, you coming online, telling me what you heard, having us track it down, we rely on this being done piecemeal state-by-state, and them being honest.
[21:35:00]
We're already seeing cracks in the system. The Kaiser Foundation says just over half of states plan on having database systems described as comprehensive and reliable.
Why would you want to hide data on this? Think about a good reason, and then think of Florida, OK, and everything we're learning about Florida and cases. Nobody wants to hide data for good reason. Not like this!
A strong day, for America, OK, that's what this is with the vaccine. But remember the context. 300,000 dead we mark today, and it matters. We have ignored those milestones for too long at the top, and everything starts from the top.
A strong day, for the health of our democracy as well, electors bypassing the assault on our election. So where are we? And what does it look like three months, five months, seven months from now?
Tom Friedman takes on that difficult task of perspective where we are and where we might be heading, next.
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(END VIDEO CLIP) CUOMO: All 50 states now have at least some Pfizer vaccine. Not all states are using it yet, but they all have it. Why not? It's part of the story. We're going to have to find out.
There are going to be variables all over the place. But let's, look, let's not fight progress. This is a big step in overcoming the fear that surrounds not only on this virus, but also just our mutual existence.
I'm joined now by "New York Times" Columnist Tom Friedman, Author of much, including "The World Is Flat."
Good to see you, brother.
TOM FRIEDMAN, FOREIGN AFFAIRS COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "THE WORLD IS FLAT": Good to be with you, Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: You sat down with Biden. What was your sense of his grasp of exactly what he is getting into and his mindset in terms of how to get through it?
FRIEDMAN: He is, first and foremost, Chris, focused on the pandemic, obviously, and now getting the vaccine out, and trying to address really a lot of the problems that you've raised, a lot of the challenges.
He's got a great team, people like Vivek Murthy, the former Surgeon General. I have a lot of confidence in these people. They're going to be laser-focused on this.
And today, Chris, you alluded to it. This was - we've been at war with this pandemic since last March. Today was D-day. Today was D-day. We landed on Normandy Beach with the vaccine. And it was an amazing achievement.
It's so sad that we aren't all celebrating that today, as a nation coming together, celebrating that UPS and FedEx people who delivered it, the vaccine designers and manufacturers and the scientists. This is an amazing achievement for America and for the world. This was D- day.
At the same time, you also alluded to this, Chris it was an amazing day for our democracy. The Electoral College voted.
We had a record number of votes in a pandemic, and we went out and voted, and our friends and neighbors counted those votes. And our courts and electoral judges affirmed them as valid.
This was an amazing day for American democracy. And so, it's unfortunate we have a President who can't celebrate that, who can't organize, who can't elevate to the moment.
But we shouldn't lose sight of, you know, help is on the way. And I have a lot of confidence that when Biden and his team get there, I think you'll see some real substantive change. CUOMO: So, the expectation of change is now. If it's going to change, it has to change right now. That's not going to happen here, except in tone and message. Tone and message will start right away. He will be doing the mask and the social distancing.
Bad days are ahead. Things are going to shut down again. People are going to get sick in numbers that we haven't seen. And we know that we're numbed by the numbers, but they're going to be bad, and the vaccine won't be making any discernible difference any time soon. That can create doubt about it.
How do you counter?
FRIEDMAN: Yes. Well there is no question this is going to be hard. We're now probably suffering a lot of the spread from Thanksgiving. Who knows what will happen over Christmas!
But, I think, Chris, you know what we've forgotten?
We've forgotten what it's like to have normal people in government. We've forgotten what it's like to have people who work together as a team. We've forgotten what it's like to have a president who tells the truth every day, and a team that tries to model the right behavior.
I have no illusions about how hard this is. We're up against Mother Nature. This is hard. But at least we have two things now going our way. We have a vaccine and we have a team coming in that will be focused on getting it to the American people based on truth and science. For that, I'm hopeful.
CUOMO: I'm hopeful that that will help me get to answers on hard questions better because the hard questions are going to come. There is zero chance that the military just makes this happen. They are logistical geniuses, as you and I both know.
But there are too many parts here that we've never seen run together, from their ability to manufacture, with Congress holding up money that they need for manufacturing, with Congress not wanting to give money to local and state governments that need it, to procure, and then make available this vaccine, where they need to, all the way through did it get there right, who is tracking that, what decisions the states make, how long it takes, the inequities that are almost unavoidable here.
I believe that I'm going to need to take it on as almost a full-time task on this show. That's how big, I think, it's going to be, once we get anywhere near scale. What's your thought?
FRIEDMAN: I hope you do it. I think all of the media is going to have to do that, all the responsible media. Identify where the gaps are, where connections aren't happening, where people aren't following up with vaccines. No question about it.
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But I do think that, as I said, we forgot what it's like to have a normal government. And I don't think that's a miracle cure. This is a huge logistical challenge, one of the biggest in our history.
But I am confident that we are going to have people who are at least up to the task, who will be working together.
CUOMO: We got enough going on, and it's a different enough day that I didn't have to ask you about the A.G. leaving because who cares. I didn't have to talk to you about Lindsey Graham and the Re-Trump- licans because who cares.
We got bigger fish to fry and people who are at least willing to cook. Tom Friedman, you're one of them. Thank you very much for being part of the solution.
FRIEDMAN: Always a pleasure, Chris, thank you.
CUOMO: All right. I am not in the mitigation of good news business, OK? We do not have enough to share with you.
Having the vaccine after this amount of time is unheard of. But why was it able to be made so fast? You know why? As I learned today, from another great scientist, science builds on science, and that's how we got to where we are tonight.
We have a scientist who played a crucial role in this remarkable achievement. If not for her work, we would not be talking the way we are tonight. She deserves our attention for doing something that made a difference, and no one made it easy for her.
Here she is, a true Ameri-CAN to be celebrated tonight. Next.
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CUOMO: 11 months to get a COVID vaccine, amazing, breathtaking speed, why? Usually takes many, many years. So, why was it faster this time? Science, scientists, who pioneered a type of research that I can't even explain to you but, it paved the way for Pfizer and Moderna's vaccines.
Now, one of the people who you just can't leave out of this conversation is everything that we need to hold dear tonight. Dr. Kate Kariko joins me now. And the story of American success, if ever, Hungary-born, came here with nothing, desperate for a better life, and to teach, everything was made hard, because of where she was coming from, and being a woman in a field that is very hard on women. Had to leave her family, had to work all the time, but she made research happen that nobody thought was possible.
Thank you for being with us, Doctor. Thank you for making hope possible in our country tonight.
KATALIN KARIKO, SENIOR VICE PRESIDENT, BIONTECH, PIONEERED COVID-19 VACCINE TECHNOLOGY: Thank you for having me, Chris.
CUOMO: So, when you heard that the trial had been successful with Pfizer, and Moderna, I read that you were not really surprised that the vaccines were proving effective even after such a short time. Why? What did you know that we had to learn?
KARIKO: I expected that it will work because we already had enough experiment, and I was confident that it will work. And I am very happy that it really had worked.
CUOMO: I heard you celebrated with an entire bag of chocolate-covered peanuts?
KARIKO: Yes, it was Goober, yes, that's my favorite. But I am not the kind of exuberant person, who - yes, this was - this was nice.
CUOMO: Well, I think that's exactly what a scientist should be, is that you are all about the next achievement, and figuring it out, and that you're not surprised by what you've already shown.
Now, people need to know this almost didn't happen. How hard did you have to fight for this type of methodology of science in using RNA to be used that way? How hard was the fight?
KARIKO: It was difficult, because the people did not believe that messenger RNA can be a therapy.
And together with my colleague, Drew Weissman, at the University of Pennsylvania, we developed this method, where we changed the one component in the RNA, which made it less immunogenic, and it is possible to use it for different kind of therapy, and also it turned out that it is better for vaccine.
And so, it's took for a while that people were - discover our discovery and then of course, eventually now that we are very excited that it became a vaccine, part of this vaccine for both companies.
And really, we will celebrate when, you know, when this human suffering is over, when the hardship and all of this terrible time will end. And hopefully, in the summer, when we will forget about virus and vaccine, then I will be really celebrating.
CUOMO: How confident are you that the vaccine will make that big a difference? KARIKO: I am very, very confident.
I myself will get the vaccine, on Thursday, at University of Pennsylvania, together with Drew Weissman, as, we are together getting the vaccine that some of our discoveries incorporated into, and it is very historic and very important for us to get the vaccine.
CUOMO: What does it mean to you personally with what you've gone through that you will be remembered for this, maybe much more as well, you still have long to go, but what does it mean to you that you helped get us to where we are tonight in the middle of a pandemic that's eating up this world?
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KARIKO: It probably didn't register yet, you know, the importance. It is just this media attention is very worrying to me, because nobody really cared. And a scientist's life is being in the laboratory, and thinking, and quiet time, and with - so, I don't know.
CUOMO: Did you ever think, when you were working on this, this is what it will be used for some day? What was your dream?
KARIKO: No. I never imagined that this would be such an impact, that the discovery will have such an impact.
I wanted to treat diseases that are mostly acute, like pain and ache, and which would require, to deliver an RNA coding for some therapeutic proving (ph), and which would be used for once or twice.
And I imagine that everybody, and one day, will have messenger RNA in their freezer, or refrigerator, that if they have some problem, they can just use it.
CUOMO: Well Doctor, thank you so much for making science into a reality for us in such a difficult time. God bless you and the family, thank you.
KARIKO: Thank you very much. And believe me so many scientists are working on it. And just saying me, you know, there are many others that are accompanying me (ph) all over the world.
CUOMO: Understood, but it's good to talk to one nonetheless. Be well.
We'll be right back.
KARIKO: Thank you.
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