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New Day

President-Elect Biden Condemns Trump and GOP Attempts to Overturn Election; Democrats Face Tough Choice on Stimulus Deal without State and Local Aid; Soon, FDA to Release Scientific Evaluation of Moderna Vaccine. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 15, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

And after apparently biting his tongue for weeks, President-elect Joe Biden is speaking out and condemning President Trump's efforts to overturn the election.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: This legal maneuver was an effort by elected officials and one group of state to try to get the Supreme Court to wipe out the votes of more than 20 million Americans in other states. And to hand the presidency to a candidate who lost the Electoral College, lost the popular vote, and lost each and every one of the states whose votes they were trying to reverse, it's a position so extreme, we've never seen it before. A position they refuse to respect the will of the people, refused to respect the rule of law and refused to honor our Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So, this morning, some Republicans are admitting what they've known for weeks, that Biden will be president in 36 days, but Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell is not one of them. President Trump is still trying to distract from his loss, announcing Attorney General Bill Barr's resignation just moments after the final Electoral College vote.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: All right. Such remarkable images of Americans receiving the coronavirus vaccine, more on track to arrive this morning. We will watch some be administered shortly.

Now, Moderna's vaccine will be reviewed later this week by an FDA advisory panel. This is a big deal as well. And we're getting new data about this vaccine this morning.

The horrifying march of the pandemic continues, a record 110,000 Americans are hospitalized. It's so important when you keep seeing the hospitalization go up. It means we haven't turned any kind of corner and it means we can expect deaths to continue to rise over the coming weeks. More than 3,000 Americans have already died in this pandemic.

CAMEROTA: Okay. But let's start with President-elect Joe Biden.

Joining us now, CNN Political Correspondent Abby Phillip and CNN Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson. Ladies, thank you so much for being with us.

So that was an interesting speech that he gave, Abby, last night, because -- I mean, I said this last hour, but I think it bears repeating. He's just not pulling any punches. He's not doing the verbal gymnastics that we've heard certainly from Republicans for the past four years, but also from Democrats who knew that they couldn't alienate President Trump. They needed him, governors, Democratic governors, needed him during this pandemic. You know, other people in Congress needed him if they were going to get things passed. And Joe Biden, it just sounded like, just doesn't need him anymore.

ABBY PHILLIP, CNN POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: And he doesn't. Joe Biden knows that he's going to be inaugurated on January 20th. But I do think that this moment last night represents a real change in gear for Joe Biden, because weeks ago, shortly after the election, you would hear from people in the Biden campaign that they were not going to dignify all of these lies, frankly, around the election by giving it a lot of oxygen, by talking about it too much, by making it a part of Biden's speeches or his public comments. He certainly answered questions about it from reporters. But, by and large, he was trying to give, perhaps, the president, but more importantly Republicans that he knew that he needed to work with on Capitol Hill a little bit of space in order to do what they needed to do, come to terms with the situation, and move on.

What you saw last night was Joe Biden saying, enough is enough. It's time to move forward. And it's a real change of strategy from Biden that represents this process going into a new phase. It is no longer at a point where any of this is reasonable. The president has lost almost 60 cases now, and the Electoral College has voted. So now is the time, I think, from the Biden perspective, and also from perspective of reality, for everyone in Washington, the president included, to basically let go of some of this nonsense that they've been talking about for weeks now.

BERMAN: As I noted last hour, there's an Arabic word to describe what Joe Biden said last night, and it's halas, which is enough, it's done. And then Alisyn pointed out, there is --

CAMEROTA: An Italian word.

BERMAN: Yes. That's what we saw last night from Joe Biden.

And, Nia, he also made a historical reference to himself. Joe Biden was vice president of the United States in 2017, January of 2017, which meant he was president of the Senate, which meant it was up to Joe Biden to preside over Congress declaring the election went to Donald Trump and this is what Joe Biden said last night.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: Four years ago when I was a sitting vice president of the United States, it was my responsibility to announce the tally of the Electoral College votes in joint session of Congress that voted to elect Donald Trump.

[07:05:09]

I did my job. And I'm pleased but not surprised by the number of my former Republican colleagues in the Senate who have acknowledged already the results of the Electoral College. I thank them. And I'm convinced we can work together for the good of the nation.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Some words there, very deliberate, Nia. I did my job. The implication is, now it's time to do yours, Republicans.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: That's right.

BERMAN: Go ahead.

HENDERSON: Hint, hint, Vice President Mike Pence, hint, hint Mitch McConnell as well, who I don't believe is one of those Republicans who has publicly acknowledged that Vice President Biden -- former Vice President Joe Biden, now President-elect Joe Biden, has won this and will ascend to the presidency come January 20th.

One of the things I think Biden also did last night with that speech that was so necessary was to plant a flag for the Constitution, plant a flag for what is right, plant a flag by saying what the Republicans did, 126 of those folks who signed on to those ridiculous lawsuits, as well as 17 state attorneys, was to say, this was un-American, it's undemocratic and it can never, ever happen again in this country. This is, you know, a delusion in Donald Trump's mind and, unfortunately, Republicans either believed those delusions or acted in support of him because they fear a retribution from him. That was the scenario and this can never happen again.

I thought that was Biden's goal last night, to really speak for the majority of Americans. I think their polls say 60 percent of Americans or so believe that their vote was counted fairly, that other people's votes were counted fairly, and, by and large, can disagree with this idea that somehow 20 million votes don't count in these states, that came up in the Supreme Court, court case and, of course, it was just dismissed by the Supreme Court.

What we don't know about Vice President Biden, President-elect Biden, is whether or not he actually will have a good relationship with those Republicans, some of whom he called out, people like Mitch McConnell, people who have been, by and large, silent in terms of what has been going on over these last many weeks with this president.

He ran saying that he has a good relationship with those folks, that he had worked with them in a bipartisan manner, but these last few weeks didn't really give people, I think, a lot of hope that that would actually be the reality once he gets into office. CAMEROTA: But it sounds like he, President-elect Joe Biden, is not bent on a vendetta or vindictiveness for this treatment that he's received since election and before, like I would be. But sounds like he's a better man than I.

But I want your account, Abby, on what was just says about delusion. Axios is reporting, and we have some of this reporting as well, that up until 5:30 last night, President Trump believed the state electors would still overturn Biden's victory and hand it to him. That's the definition of delusion.

So, I mean, we have been wondering if all of this is just a ruse to, you know, raise money, which he has done quite successfully, since Election Day, millions and millions of dollars. But if he is telling the people around him, if he truly believes that's what was going to happen yesterday, that's really telling.

PHILLIP: Well, you know, I think it is definitely possible for President Trump to both know that he lost this election and believe that he can somehow strong-arm Republicans across the country in states where he thinks that they ought to be loyal to him into doing his bidding. I think he thinks he has that power. That's why he's -- he's trying to -- you know, he's picking up the phone and calling officials in Arizona and in Georgia and in Michigan, and bringing them to the White House and trying to convince them to do things that they're not willing to do, and it's not for lack of trying.

I mean, in Michigan yesterday, the Republican speaker of the Michigan House had to put out a lengthy statement explaining that he was a staunch Trump supporter but would not risk the norms and the institutions of this country to do what the president wanted him to do, which was retroactively change that state's electors to Trump from Joe Biden. So there were people who were under enormous pressure. I think the president believes he has that power.

But what has happened is that people, like that Michigan House speaker, had decided that it's not worth it to them. There are people out there -- I think this is maybe the positive moral of the story. There are people out there doing the right thing and we saw that happen yesterday.

BERMAN: Mitch McConnell, do you want to join that group?

I'm going to give one more quote. This one is from Spinal Tap.

[07:10:00]

It's not your job to be as confused as Nigel, right? So, Mitch McConnell, it is not your job to be as confused as the president. Whatever the president believes is irrelevant at this point, frankly. He lost, it's over. What Mitch McConnell says is important, Nia. And I wonder -- this is it. I mean, today is the day. If not today for Mitch McConnell, what does that tell you?

HENDERSON: Listen, I think McConnell is who we thought he was, to quote the late great Dennis Greene. This is how he's been. He's been largely silent. You ask him about something that the president has done, whether it was lying or whatever it was, he kind of, you know, didn't respond, or pretended like he didn't know what was going on. So that's what you have seen there.

Unfortunately, he's the leader of the Republican Party on the Senate side and they are taking their cues from him. He is giving their silence and maneuvers a cover as well. And that's who this Senate majority leader has been for this president.

And that's how the Republican Party has been. They have been Donald Trump's defenders. They have been his cheerleaders. They have been his supporters either through their silence or through their direct action.

So, listen, we'll see what Mitch McConnell does, but in some ways, it's sort of too late. I mean, he's let Donald Trump go out there over the last many, many weeks with these delusions, with these lawsuits, saying nothing, and allowing folks in his party to do the same without facing any retribution, without facing any criticism.

So, in some ways, maybe he'll finally accept reality. Today, maybe he'll kick the can down the road and say, listen, we'll see what happens January 6th. So far, no profiles in courage for Mitch McConnell in terms of his dealings with Donald Trump, and I don't expect that even if he comes out now, he deserves any credit because of what he's allowed this president to do and say without condemnation over these last many weeks with this election.

BERMAN: Nia, Malika Henderson, Abby Phillip, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

We have some new developments this morning, last-ditch negotiations under way in Congress over a coronavirus relief bill. CNN's Sunlen Serfaty is live on Capitol Hill.

So who is giving up what at this point, Sunlen?

SUNLEN SERFATY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that really, John, is the key question up here on Capitol Hill. And I can tell you, as these negotiations are taking place, this week and, of course, today in earnest behind closed doors, there is a growing sense that Democratic leaders may have to abandon their long-held insistence for state and local aid. That certainly is a sense where all this is going on Capitol Hill.

Now, there has been a bicameral, bipartisan group of members of Congress that have put forward their proposal. They essentially took one large bill, split is into two parts. One part is $748 billion proposal. That essentially are things that are non-controversial, things that can garner a lot of bipartisan support, like aid to small businesses, jobless benefits and, of course, money for vaccine distribution.

Then they have a second part of this bill. That is $160 billion there and it's money for state and local aid. That's what Democrats have been pushing for, and it's money for liability protections for businesses. That is something Republicans were pushing for. That bill, that proposal, that $160 billion, that essentially includes all the contentious issues, the thorny issues that have constantly bedeviled essentially negotiators every step of the way.

Now, the sense up here on Capitol Hill, the expectation is that they likely will be able to move forward on the first part of that proposal, essentially that second part of the proposal with those controversial issues, that falls by the wayside.

But so much of that, how this ends up, hinges on will Democratic leaders drop their insistence for local aid? Now, the speaker of the House, Nancy Pelosi, talked to the treasury secretary, Steve Mnuchin, last night and she did -- important to note that she did continue to push for state and local aid but she did not draw a red line at all. And that's an important distinction. A lot of hope, of course, that this potentially is the path forward but a lot to do with so little time, of course, left in the week, John?

BERMAN: See if they can get it done. Sunlen Serfaty, please, keep us posted on any developments.

So, new data expected any minute on what could be a crucial second coronavirus vaccine. We will speak to one of the doctors reviewing this, next.

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BERMAN: This morning, I think we're all still basking in the glow of America's getting the first doses of the coronavirus vaccine, the Pfizer vaccine. And this morning, we're standing by for brand new information about Moderna's vaccine ahead of a meeting with a key FDA advisory committee that meets this week.

Joining us now is a member of that committee, Dr. Paul Offit. Also with us CNN Chief Medical Correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

And, Dr. Offit, I want to start with you. The FDA, what they do is they put out a big report, a data dump on the Moderna vaccine, which will be discussed at length when you all meet officially as a panel. I understand you've seen some of this data about the Moderna vaccine. What have you learned? What can you tell us about this?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, PEDIATRICS PROFESSOR, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: Right. It's remarkable. What you have is, you have apparently a vaccine that's roughly 95 percent effective, including highly effective against severe disease across all sort of racial and ethnic backgrounds. And I think what's important about this is, is these are two different products. Even though they're both messenger RNA vaccines, they're really different messenger RNA molecules, they have different so-called lipid delivery systems, meaning the sort of fatty droplet in which the messenger RNA is located. That's why they have different storage and handling characteristics.

And they're given at different doses. One is 30 micrograms, the other is 100 micrograms, and they're given at different dosing levels (ph). Despite all those differences, you still have a phenomenal level of efficacy, which I think, again, sort of underlines the fact that Pfizer's data were what they appear to be, like an independent proof in a way. It's very good news.

CAMEROTA: So one more question, Dr. Offit.

[07:20:01]

You're on the advisory council. And so what questions do you still have having read that report now? What do you have -- questions about the Moderna vaccine?

OFFIT: Right. So, for example, in the patients, the 11 or so patients that, despite getting vaccine, still had illness, you'd like to know why that's true. What are the characteristics of those participants? Do they have a lesser immune response? In which case, there would be an immunological correlation protection with a specific racial or ethnic background, whether they have specific medical co-morbidity, because sort of teaches you a lot about this vaccine when you see not only who is protected but who isn't protected.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, I don't want to take for granted what we saw yesterday because remarkable and historic and all that. But I do want to ask you, what now? Now that people have starting receiving the Pfizer vaccine, what are you looking for either in that or in the coming days with Moderna?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, you know, it's funny because I don't know if Dr. Offit remembers, but we were together at the end of last year working on a documentary about vaccine hesitancy, as it turns out, and this is a question that -- this is an issue that we discussed.

I think one of the biggest things as we trial from tens of thousands of people in these clinical trials to millions of people who -- hundreds of millions of people who are going to get it in the United States and around the world, there's these reporting systems that stay in place, these vaccine adverse event reporting systems.

That's part of I think what you want to see if there's something that wouldn't typically show up in a clinical trial. But as you apply it to larger and larger populations, you start to see some signal or something, whether it's adverse event or, as Dr. Offit was saying, you start to see it works really well across the board but it's clearly working in people of this age or of this background.

It was interesting when I looked at some of the data from the Pfizer trial even, and you looked at the side effects, you tended to see them more commonly in people under the age

of 55, for example. People over the age of 55 did not have as high a rate of these sort of side effects, you know, the sore arm, the fatigue.

It could be that their immune systems weren't reacting as robustly, which could be good in terms of side effects but maybe a signal that maybe the durability of the vaccine may be less. Totally, totally hypothesis at this point, but those are the sorts of things that you'll look for. You just get more data as you go out wider and wider.

Of course, you want to see things like what happened in the U.K. happen here in the United States as well, whether you see any of these allergies, for example.

And I'm curious, maybe if I can ask Dr. Offit for a second, just hearing you describe the difference between these two vaccines, does anything lead you to believe that one may be better for groups people, certain groups of people versus the other?

OFFIT: Not in the data we've seen, no. They appear to be roughly equivalent.

CAMEROTA: And, Dr. Offit, about those side effects, we know from the Pfizer, there were those two allergic reactions. I don't know if the report suggests that that exists also with the Moderna vaccine. And also, there's still a question for women about if you can get it when you're pregnant, if you can get the vaccine if you are considering getting pregnant, if it has any effect on those things?

And I know that there were some women who got pregnant after getting the Moderna vaccine. I don't think it was a side effect of getting the vaccine, but, I mean, you're the doctor. Does the vaccine cause the pregnancy or are you just heartened that they were able to get pregnant?

OFFIT: First of all, thank you for inviting me onto a program that managed to, within 30 seconds, mentions Spinal Tap and Dennis Greene.

CAMEROTA: You're welcome.

OFFIT: So, it's an honor.

CAMEROTA: That's New Day.

OFFIT: Yes. So I think that the CDC on Saturday, they gave very clear recommendations on people who had severe allergic reactions. If you remember, tens of millions of people in this country carry EpiPens with them because they've had a severe allergic reaction, say, to peanuts or to eggs.

So I think what they recommended was that if you've ever had a severe allergic reaction to an injectable medical product you shouldn't get this vaccine. On the other hand, if you have severe allergic reactions to non-injectable products, like food, that you can get this vaccine. You just have to wait for 30 minutes at the site where you've gotten it to make sure that you don't have an allergic reaction.

And for all other people, you should wait for 15 minutes, which is what we always recommend for vaccines, because one out of every million people who get a vaccine can have a severe allergic reaction.

Regarding pregnancy, what the CDC has said on Saturday was that you can get this vaccine if you're pregnant, which was interesting, because, obviously, there were not much data on this. There were a couple dozen women who got pregnant during the trial with Pfizer's vaccine, didn't appear to be any untoward effect for them or their pregnancy, although, obviously, those pregnancy haven't been carried to term.

Similar with breastfeeding, they recommended that one could choose to breastfeed while getting this vaccine.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, you brought up vaccine hesitancy, and there's some glass half full news about that coming from the Kaiser Family Foundation. They have a new poll out this morning where 71 percent of people in December say they will definitely get the vaccine, definitely or probably.

[07:25:07]

That's up from 63 percent in September. The glass half empty part of this is that 49 percent of Republicans say they won't get it, and 35 percent of black adults say they won't get it.

So what do you see here? How can the message get out to these groups?

GUPTA: Well, you know, it's -- the reasons people don't get it differs for different groups. You know, for black Americans, it's more about the concerns about side effects of the vaccine, whereas for Republicans, it was more because they think that the overall pandemic is still exaggerated. So I think it is different messages in different groups.

And we were talking about yesterday, there was some talk that President Trump, for example, would get the vaccine. I think that would be a -- probably a good idea in terms of actually signaling that if he's willing to get it, people who may be falling into this 49 percent of people who say they won't get it may start to change their minds.

I think with black Americans, we saw so many pictures of health care providers getting the vaccine yesterday, people who cast a scientific eye to this, look at the data and say, yes, I'll go ahead and roll up my sleeves. That seems to make a difference.

One thing you find is that, you know, the numbers have been steadily going up and I think that they may continue to go up. Obviously, if you're starting to hit 70 percent, those are good numbers. Things that can sort of derail that is if there's a significant concern about side effects or some reports of people having side effects, you know, things that people will hear about and, you know, we'll sort of track that along.

But, overall, I think as the rollout continues, the hesitancy seems to be going down and getting to that 75 percent number that Dr. Fauci talks about seems more and more attainable.

BERMAN: Sanjay, thank you very much. Dr. Offit, we just want to say, you go to 11:00. Thank you. Thank you very much for being with us this morning. CAMEROTA: Okay. Russian hackers suspected of penetrating several U.S. government agencies. We have new details on the scope and the severity of this massive cyber attack, next.

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