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The Lead with Jake Tapper

Trump Pushes For Special Counsels; Biden Nominates Pete Buttigieg as Transportation Secretary; Trump Science Adviser Pushed Herd Immunity?. Aired 3-3:30p ET

Aired December 16, 2020 - 15:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:00:01]

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: If I had a special counsel into me, why don't we have one into these matters that I care about?

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: All right, Kaitlan Collins, great reporting from you and your colleague. Thank you so much for sharing it with us.

And "THE LEAD WITH JAKE TAPPER" starts right now.

JAKE TAPPER, CNN HOST: Welcome to THE LEAD. I'm Jake Tapper.

And we begin today with the health lead, more hope on the horizon. Assistant Secretary of Health Admiral Brett Giroir today tells CNN he is -- quote -- "very confident" that Moderna's coronavirus vaccine will also be authorized. And, tomorrow, the vaccine is expected to clear the first hurdle. Doses could theoretically be in the arms of the American people starting on Monday.

Operation Warp Speed officials today said 20 million doses of Moderna vaccines will be delivered by the end of the month. So far, distribution of the Pfizer vaccine seemed to be on schedule.

But all this hope does come amid the dark reality. And this afternoon, new e-mails reported by Politico showing a Trump administration official back in July pushing the widely discredited theory of herd immunity, the idea of purposefully infecting as many people as possible.

Wrote the then science adviser -- quote -- "Infants, kids, teens, young people, young adults, middle-aged with no conditions, et cetera, have zero to little risk. So we use them to develop herd. We want them infected and recovered with antibodies."

Experts say the idea of "We want them infected" and herd immunity would be a disastrous course that would cost hundreds of thousands of lives, though this mentality in this e-mail might help explain the refusal of President Trump and the White House to do more to stop the spread, as the virus continues out of control today, with yesterday being the third deadliest day in the U.S. for the pandemic so far, with more than 3,000 dead.

The state of California just ordered 5,000 more body bags. All of New York's hospitals are all shifting to crisis management mode.

And, as CNN's Lucy Kafanov reports from Phoenix now, Admiral Giroir says American still needs a mask up even if vaccines are going out and into arms.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY KAFANOV, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): Here as the coronavirus pandemic rages on, hopes are growing for a second vaccine. Moderna's rollout is expected to be larger than Pfizer's. Distribution of about six million doses to nearly 3,200 sites across the country could begin as early as next week, advisers to the FDA discussing recommendations tomorrow.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And the vaccine was in five, like, pizza box trays that fit right in here.

KAFANOV: While Pfizer's vaccine must be frozen in extremely cold temperatures, Moderna's can be kept in regular freezers, allowing for broader distribution.

DR. PAUL OFFIT, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA: It looks to be roughly 95 percent effective at preventing disease, including 100 percent effective at severe disease.

NARRATOR: Heard the good news about COVID-19 vaccines? Yes, they're coming, but you can do a lot more than just wait.

KAFANOV: Two new radio ads from the Department of Health and Human Services are spreading word about the vaccines and urging Americans to stay safe.

NARRATOR: As long as we keep watching our distance, wearing our masks and washing our hands.

KAFANOV: But health officials are warning the vaccine won't make a dent quite yet.

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, U.S. ASSISTANT SECRETARY FOR HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES: Ultimately, we immunize for herd immunity. And that will happen when 70 or 80 percent of the American people have immunity against COVID.

KAFANOV: The biggest obstacle to reaching that herd immunity? Convincing Americans to get vaccinated.

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, NIAID DIRECTOR: The challenge is the acceptance on the part of various elements in our society, particularly -- and we're working very hard. Minority populations, understandably, have somewhat of a skepticism.

KAFANOV: A vaccine does not mean Americans can let their guard down. ALEX AZAR, U.S. HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES SECRETARY: Even with the emergence of these new tools, we are not at the finish line yet, especially as we approach the holidays.

KAFANOV: More than 198,000 new COVID-19 cases reported Tuesday, more than 3,000 deaths, the third highest number ever, and another record, more than 112,000 Americans in hospitals, almost twice as many as during the peak of spring.

New cases surging in at least 14 states, up by more than 50 percent in Tennessee, California, Pennsylvania, Missouri, Texas and Michigan each reporting more than 200 deaths on Tuesday, California activating its mass fatality program, purchasing 5,000 new body bags. Sixty refrigerated trailers are on stand by as makeshift morgues.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KAFANOV: Now, officials in Alaska confirmed that one of their health care workers suffered a severe allergic reaction to the Pfizer vaccine yesterday. She had no known history of allergies.

And that's a cause for concern as Arizona begins its own vaccinations. The tents behind me may be empty right now, but, tomorrow, this is where hundreds of front-line health care workers, first responders will be getting their shots starting tomorrow -- Jake.

[15:05:08]

TAPPER: All right, Lucy Kafanov in Phoenix, Arizona, thank you so much.

And as the vaccine rollout accelerates, we have some breaking news on the economic side of this pandemic. Americans might also be getting a new round of stimulus checks. Right now, the larger relief package in Congress is $900 billion. It could include individual payments of $600 per person.

Now, negotiations do remain fragile, with stimulus aid tied to a separate government funding bill that must be passed by this Friday.

Let's go to CNN's Manu Raju on Capitol Hill keeping tabs of all this for us.

And, Manu, many Democrats were pushing for these stimulus checks. They had some help from people like Senator Josh Hawley, but it was a mainly Democratic effort. They may be giving up funding for state and local governments, though, Democrats. How big of a concession is that?

MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: That's a very big concession.

Remember, Democrats initially back in May wanted to pass a trillion dollars for state and local governments alone. This whole package they're talking about right now is about $900 billion, and there is not that money for state and local governments, even as Democrats had centered around $160 billion as a last-ditch compromise. Republican said no. And Nancy Pelosi, the House speaker, pointed to

the Republican insistence to include liability protections for businesses and others that have been hit hard by this or that have been threatened by lawsuits. That language was just too far for Pelosi. And, as a result, both of those items have been set aside.

Now, this proposal does have a number of other provisions, particularly helping people who are facing the prospects of losing their jobless benefits in just a matter of days here. It includes an extension of jobless benefits for about $300 a week for individuals. It does have that $600 for individuals for direct payments.

In addition to that, it also has money for vaccine distribution, something that is going to be essential for ensuring that states and localities can carry out the vaccine distribution. And it provides about $330 billion for small business loans that had been a big push on -- particularly on the Republican side to get in there.

And one issue, though, that it does include is $90 billion that is administered by FEMA to give out to states and cities on an emergency basis. There's some Republican unease about that provision. We will see how it's ultimately structured.

But, Jake, we still have not seen the details of legislative language. The leaders are going back and forth trying to finalize this. But they're trying to jam it through Congress here by Friday. And, as you mentioned, they try to tie it to a bill to avert a government shutdown by midnight Friday.

TAPPER: That's right. And there are millions of Americans who are in dire need of this relief money.

Manu Raju, thank you so much.

In our 2020 lead: The former Mayor of South Bend, Indiana, Pete Buttigieg, is officially president-elect Biden's pick to be secretary of transportation, setting the stage for what LGBTQ rights groups are celebrating as the man who would be the first Senate-confirmed openly gay Cabinet member

CNN's Jeff Zeleny joins me now.

Jeff, Biden made a point today of saying, especially with Buttigieg, that he's building a diverse and historic Cabinet, should all of these picks be confirmed.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Jake, that's exactly what president-elect Joe Biden did. He was really going through the list of the barrier-breaking firsts, the first woman to serve as Treasury secretary, if confirmed, the first African-American to lead the Pentagon and several others, clearly pushing back, pretty gently, but also forcefully, against some of the critics who have said that, look, this is just a redo of the Obama administration.

He clearly was making the case that he's making historic, barrier- breaking picks here, but, also Jake, so interesting to see Pete Buttigieg, age 38, standing on stage, a confidant from campaign rival. And his endorsement of Joe Biden was so important to really close down this primary campaign.

And now, as transportation secretary nominee, he clearly is going to be taking the reins, or trying to, of infrastructure. It's one of his favorite projects. He talked about it so much when he was running for president back during the primary. But now, if he's confirmed, he clearly will have his work cut out for him trying to get infrastructure through.

But all of them talked about the historic nature of this. And Pete Buttigieg talked about, as a 17-year-old boy in South Bend, Indiana, watching the idea of a Cabinet secretary being nominated, in fact, an ambassador back in the Clinton administration, openly gay, was not even given a hearing in the Senate, had to go for a recess appointment.

So, clearly, progress is being made in every front, including this one, Jake.

TAPPER: And it's kind of funny to think about the commercial, that ad that Biden ran against Mayor Pete during the primaries where he made fun of them -- fun of him for not really having much experience, except for putting lights on bridges in South Bend.

ZELENY: Right.

TAPPER: Biden also says he plans to take the vaccine publicly. Do we have any idea of when that might happen?

ZELENY: Well, Jake, we're being told that is likely to come next week in the days leading up to the Christmas holiday.

But he was asked that directly at the end of the event today. Take a listen to what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN (D), PRESIDENT-ELECT: We're working on that right now. I don't want to get ahead of the line, but I want to make sure that we demonstrate to the American people that it is safe to take.

[15:10:07]

When I do it, I will do it publicly, and so you all can actually witness my getting it done.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ZELENY: So, saying he's going to take this vaccine very publicly. So, we do expect that next week.

Now, President Trump, for his part, has not said if he will get the vaccine or when that will happen. The vice president, Mike Pence, is scheduled to get it on Friday. But, Jake, one person who is attending this meeting today virtually

was Vice President Kamala Harris. Joe Biden said he told her to stay in Washington because of the snow you can see behind me here in Wilmington. These roads and these conditions out here are pretty brisk and snowy -- Jake.

TAPPER: All right, Jeff Zeleny by banks of the beautiful Christina River in Wilmington, Delaware, thanks so much.

Moderna's COVID vaccine is on the cusp of getting authorization from the FDA. A look at how it may be different from Pfizer's vaccine. That's next.

Plus, turns out President Trump cannot live full time at his own Mar- a-Lago club, all because of a deal that he made. So, where might he go after leaving the White House January 20?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:15:24]

TAPPER: And sticking with our health lead: As soon as Monday, Americans could have a another shot, with Moderna's coronavirus vaccine expected to be authorized by the FDA this week, joining Pfizer's vaccine, which is already in American arms.

With us now is a doctor who just got that Pfizer vaccine yesterday, Dr. Jonathan Reiner. He's CNN medical analyst and a professor of medicine at George Washington University.

Dr. Reiner, thanks so much for joining us.

So, tell us how you're feeling after getting your first dose of the vaccine. Have you experienced any side effects at all?

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: No, I feel great, Jake.

My left shoulder is a little bit -- a little bit sore. But other than that, I feel fabulous. I have been at work all day.

TAPPER: But just the kind of soreness you get from a flu shot every year, nothing -- no big deal?

REINER: No, exactly, nothing at all to worry about.

TAPPER: Moderna claims that its vaccine could prevent infection, not just disease, severe disease. The Pfizer vaccine, they say that it doesn't necessarily prevent infection; it prevents you from getting really, really sick.

How significant would that be, if the Moderna vaccine actually prevented infection too?

REINER: Well, that's what we want all vaccines to do, in reality, is to prevent folks from getting the disease.

We don't really know if the Pfizer vaccine will also prevent the illness. Pfizer has samples that they can use to address this question. My understanding is that they have not yet analyzed it. But we will learn over the next several months whether indeed the Pfizer vaccine also prevents people from acquiring the virus.

There are other vaccines in development, particularly the Novavax vaccine, which in animal studies does seem to suggest that the animals will be resistant to actually acquiring the vaccine -- excuse me -- acquiring the virus -- after they're inoculated.

TAPPER: Politico this afternoon -- I'm not sure if you saw the scoop from Dan Diamond, but they're reporting that a Trump appointee at the Department of Health and Human Services, Mr. Alexander, was pushing this herd immunity theory to administration officials, not from vaccinations, but from infections, pushing infections.

He wrote in an e-mail -- quote -- "We want them infected. Let the kids and young folk get infected."

This theory of letting people get the disease and acquiring herd immunity that way, as opposed to through vaccinations, it's obviously been widely discredited by health experts, who say it would cause hundreds of thousands, if not millions of lives to be lost.

When you see this, when you hear this, what's your reaction?

REINER: It makes my blood boil.

Many of us have suspected for a long time that the administration was prioritizing the economy and, by extension, the reelection of the president, over the health of Americans. Despite protestations to the opposite, multiple high-level administration officials were pushing for herd immunity.

Paul Alexander was one. Scott Atlas was another very prominent adviser pushing for herd immunity, pushing the president to let this virus burn through this country. Another report recently shows that young Americans aged 25 to 40 had basically the deadliest July on record.

And when you look at data between March and July, about 12,000 excess deaths, compared to a comparable period, occurred in young Americans that age. So, we know that this strategy to kind of let the virus just burn through young people had catastrophic effects.

TAPPER: So, just to be clear here, a lot of us have been wondering, why hasn't the administration been doing so much more on testing? Why haven't they been doing so much more to control the spread?

It's obviously not their stated policy, but, as a doctor and as an observer, you believe that this was intentional? You think that President Trump decided to let this virus spread as much as possible because of the economy and because of his reelection, his desire to be reelected on the basis of the economy? That's what you suspect? REINER: I suspect that from the very beginning. I think that was the

primary reason why the president did not endorse masks at the outset, is that he didn't -- he was afraid masking was going to talk down the economy, talk down the stock market.

I think every decision was made based on what it would do for the stock market and, by extension, the president's reelection campaign. I do believe that, yes.

[15:20:05]

TAPPER: There could soon be multiple vaccines on the market.

When the general population is able to get a vaccine, should people be shopping around for which vaccine they want, or should they just get whatever is available?

REINER: They should get the first vaccine that is made available to them.

Now, I will say that, over the next several months, we will start to get some data perhaps that might help us understand whether, for example, older Americans might benefit from one vaccine over another.

But, for now, I would say the vaccine you should take is the one you could get this.

(CROSSTALK)

REINER: Every day in clinic, I ask patients whether they will take the vaccine, because I'm worried about vaccine hesitancy. And I asked a patient today whether he was going to take the vaccine, and he said, of course. He says he wants to write history, not be evicted.

Everyone should take the first vaccine they can get, yes.

TAPPER: Quickly, if you could, there's a new study from "The British Medical Journal" that found that vaccines may not reach a quarter of the world's population until at least 2022.

How will that affect the ability to get past the coronavirus?

REINER: Well, I think this is one reason why the U.S. has to reenter the World Health Organization that we precipitously pulled out of during the pandemic.

And I -- my understanding is that it's a priority of the Biden administration to rejoin the World Health Organization. The poorest parts of this world have always been hardest-hit by infectious disease. And the rich countries, which have reserved the lion's share of the production capacity for the various pharmaceutical companies that will produce these vaccines, need to pull together and protect the developing world.

This is -- this problem, it may go away in the United States over the next 12 to 18 months, but in other parts of the world, it's going to remain and kill a lot of people. We will need to (AUDIO GAP) administration.

TAPPER: Dr. Jonathan Reiner, thank you so much for your time today. And we appreciate the work you do on the front lines there at G.W. University Medical Hospital.

A look at some of the first doses of the COVID vaccine being administered by the National Guard at a nursing home in Florida near Tampa. More on the vaccine ahead.

Plus, President Trump just did something he has not done in seven months, but there were a lot of people missing from it. What am I talking about?

Stay with us.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:27:28]

TAPPER: Turning to our politics lead today: CNN has learned that President Trump is pushing for the appointment of two separate special counsels, one that would investigate voting integrity in the 2020 election, and the other to investigate Hunter Biden, the president- elect's son, who is already under investigation by the U.S. attorney in Delaware for potential tax violations and money laundering.

That's according to sources familiar with the matter, this as President Trump attacks Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Republican from Kentucky, for daring to acknowledge reality, that is, that Joe Biden won the presidential election.

Outgoing President Trump says it's too soon to give up soon.

CNN's Kaitlan Collins joins me now live.

Kaitlan, the U.S. is going to soon have a new acting attorney general, Jeffrey Rosen, replacing Bill Barr in these final few weeks of the Trump administration. Do we know if Jeffrey Rosen is on board with appointing these special counsels?

COLLINS: We don't know. And we don't even know if the president has actually signaled to Jeffrey Rosen personally that this is something he wants. But the president is publicly making this clear. He's talking about it in meetings in the West Wing with his advisers. Of course, now it's being reported in the media.

So, it could complicate things, though, with Barr's departure, how this is going to work or what is possibly going to happen, because what we're told by sources, Jake, is the president is intent on getting these separate special counsels, one for voter fraud, alleged voter fraud, we should say, and one for this Hunter Biden investigation that's already under way.

But we don't know what Jeffrey Rosen would do or if he would try to get Barr to do it before he leaves a week from today. We have heard that the president has speculated about whether he could appoint a special counsel, though DOJ rules are that the attorney general must do it, just like how Jeff Sessions did with, of course, how that chain of command happened that led us to have Robert Mueller as the special counsel.

And so we don't know that he'd actually follow through with it. So then, of course, it raises the next question, which is, would the president fired Jeffrey Rosen if he refused to nominate and appoint these special counsels?

And, Jake, those are still questions that we don't have the answers to. And, typically, the president would probably be advised against that. But sources say right now he is more unpredictable than ever.

TAPPER: And, Kaitlan, President Trump held a Cabinet meeting today, the first one in a long time.

And a lot of people in the Cabinet did not show up. What happened?

COLLINS: Yes, it's not clear how much of a heads-up they got that this Cabinet meeting was happening. It was behind closed doors today.

And, typically, the president likes the cameras to come in. But they did not have as go in today. And so we later learned from the White House that a lot of people did not show up, including anyone from the Justice Department, anyone from the Pentagon, anyone from the State Department, or anyone from the CIA.

None of them were there.