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Vice President Mike Pence, Surgeon General to Get Vaccinated Soon; Tucker Carlson Fans Flames of Vaccine Skepticism; Michael Flynn Suggests Trump Could Invoke Martial Law on Key Swing States to Rerun Election. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired December 18, 2020 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: In just a matter of minutes, Vice President Mike Pence, his wife and the Surgeon General will receive their coronavirus vaccine. It's going to happen live on TV. You can see the Surgeon General there on your screen. The man with his back to you, Dr. Anthony Fauci and Marc Short there, I believe, as well. Everybody preparing for this moment. Joining us now is CNN political analyst, Maggie Haberman, White House correspondent for "The New York Times", Maggie, good morning.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES: Good morning --

HILL: Great to see you as always. As we look at this moment that is about to happen, it's so important that we're seeing the vice president and the second lady get their vaccinations. It's so important that we're seeing Jerome Adams get his as well.

Especially if we look back at this Kaiser Family Foundation survey that came out just a couple of days ago that found those most hesitant to get a vaccine include black Americans, people living in rural areas, and Republicans. And Republicans said because the major reason was the risks of COVID-19 are being exaggerated.

HABERMAN: So, this is why, Erica, it's really important that the White House is modeling the need to get this vaccination. We have not seen the president make a move toward getting it. We have not even seen the president really talk about it, other than his push before the election to make sure it was done in time for his re-election effort. It is important that Mike Pence is showing people, as a top Republican in the party, that this is something that he considers safe, something that he considers important. Same with Jerome Adams.

It is important for him, because so many black Americans have expressed concern about this virus. And it is going to take a while to change public sentiment, but these kinds of gestures from the federal government are really important towards sending a message about the safety and efficacy of this. And the efficacy in terms of the fact that the disease, is, in fact real. JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: As they say, vaccines don't save lives,

vaccinations do. You have to get the shot for it to make a difference. And Maggie, I've been waiting for this moment, what we just saw with Sanjay, what we're about to see with Mike Pence, because it makes a big difference.

But I was also waiting for a political moment that happened last night. Which is that Tucker Carlson on "Fox TV" went on TV and he questioned the validity of the vaccine. He questioned whether it was necessary. He threw shade on vaccinations.

I'm not going to play it again because I don't think it's helpful to Americans. But you can see right there what it says on the screen, you know, bad vaccines, and then he also said, "it all seems a bit much. It feels false because it is. It's too slick."

Now, the reason that I'm highlighting this is because President Trump has the opportunity to make a huge difference. He has the opportunity to save a lot of lives. There are people who listen to him. There are people who watch what he does and what he says. If 50 percent of Republicans are hesitant to get the vaccine, he can make a difference there.

Yet, clearly, part of his base, Tucker Carlson, is willing to throw shade on it. So why doesn't the president --

HABERMAN: Yes --

BERMAN: Do this? What's the thinking behind this?

HABERMAN: I think you actually laid it out very well, John. The president for whatever reason over four years, he burrows back into his base of supporters at almost every opportunity when he has the chance to try to lead them in a different direction. He could have done it with masks at various points over this year, and his followers for the most part would have listened, despite concerns about freedom and so forth.

[07:35:00]

He could have made a difference there. He certainly can make a difference on the vaccine. It is notable that some of his allies are trying to throw shade on this, given the fact that there was so much protestation from the White House about Democrats raising concerns about the science over the course of the year. There seems to have been some flip now. You now have the medical community making clear that they consider this vaccine safe. The president has a real role to play here. The first lady has a real role to play here.

Neither of them is playing that role. The first lady did do some stuff around masks, but basically, there has been a total absence at the top, which is why Mike Pence doing this is so notable. In a normal world, you would not have this much attention toward the act of a vice president getting a vaccine that his own government had worked on, trying to push out for much of this year. It is a big deal because the president isn't doing so. And to your point again, John, he does have an obligation, it's just not one he's meeting.

BERMAN: I just don't get -- what I don't get, Maggie, is he wants to take credit for Operation Warp Speed.

HABERMAN: Right --

BERMAN: He wants to take credit for the development of it. But the --

HABERMAN: Right --

BERMAN: Development doesn't matter if people don't get the vaccine. I just don't get the logical disconnect between -- he's not saying a thing. I mean, he hasn't done a thing --

HABERMAN: Right, so --

BERMAN: To get people to take it.

HABERMAN: I have a theory, John, and again, it's a theory, but I don't think that he wants to be jabbed with a needle on live television. I just don't. I think that he considers that to be some kind of an act of weakness. And again, this is one of those moments where none of us particularly want to roll -- you know, most of us anyway, we don't want to roll up our arms and then have our arms jabbed on television, necessarily. But it is important. And he is choosing not to do something that could help save lives.

HILL: Which also goes back to -- as much as the president wants to say America first, it has been Donald Trump first. And this is another example. He doesn't want us to see his arm. He doesn't want us to see him get stuck with a needle. That's about him. It is not about the country. It is not about the job that he holds.

HABERMAN: Right. I mean, I think that he has constantly acted as if he is both bystander of his own administration, and the leader of it who should deserve credit. And I think that this is just another example of that. I think it is going to make the job of the incoming president harder to try to convince people that this vaccine is safe, and that they should be taking it. But again, that's another thing I don't think is of concern to a president who has spent most of the last six weeks insisting the election was stolen from him.

BERMAN: Again, Mike Pence, Surgeon General Jerome Adams, the second lady, they will receive the vaccine. We will bring that to you live. It will be a very important moment. It's terrific the vice president is willing to do that live on television for America to see.

You mentioned what the president has been doing the last six weeks, which is questioning the validity of the election that he lost. Former National Security adviser Michael Flynn, who the president pardoned, went on TV last night and fomented this notion that the president should declare Martial Law. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER UNITED STATES NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He could order the -- within the swing states, if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities and he could place them in those states and basically re-run an election in each of those states. I mean, it's not unprecedented. I mean, these people out there talking about martial law, it's like it's something that we've never done. We've done -- martial law has been instituted 64 times.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: We've had martial law rerun elections? I want people to fully appreciate the madness, the sheer madness of what Michael Flynn just said. And he's out there in his mind speaking on behalf of the president.

HABERMAN: Right, or speaking to the president, right? I mean, and trying to appeal to him on what he thinks he should do. But it is -- to your point, it is a breathtaking statement to declare that actually the president should just go send in the military in key states where he didn't win and redo the elections there. It's breathtaking.

This is a person who is the National Security adviser under President Trump. He also worked for the Obama White House, although the Obama White House fired him after a couple of years in his role and tried to warn the president -- current president about him.

This is something that has become a self-fueling circular ecosystem with the president and some of his allies on television where they are putting these ideas out there that are dangerous and that are not grounded in the history that he's claiming. And that, again, do not make it easier as we march towards inauguration day.

BERMAN: Maggie Haberman, thank you so much for being with us this morning, as always, have a terrific weekend.

HABERMAN: Thanks, you too.

BERMAN: So Congress has a job to do, and they're just not doing it. And if they don't act, thousands of Americans could be evicted in the new year. We'll bring you the stories of some single mothers who are desperate for help, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:00]

HILL: Since really the beginning of the pandemic, fear of eviction has been a widespread problem across the country. But it is about to get worse. Come January, payments will be due for thousands of renters and for many people who are still out of work, the hold on evictions was their only saving grace.

Minorities, communities of color tend to be hit the hardest in this moment. CNN's Nick Valencia is now with us live in Atlanta with more. And Nick, these are stories -- you know, these stories are symptomatic of people that I think many of us know in our own communities, and this is the reality and the countdown they're facing. NICK VALENCIA, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think we've all heard the

stories and we've seen the numbers. And just like with COVID-19, Erica, it's people of color who are disproportionately at risk of being evicted during this pandemic. You mentioned that federal moratorium that's expected to end on December 31st. We wanted to see the real stories here on the ground, so we spent the day yesterday with single mothers who are expecting to be out on the streets if that moratorium isn't extended.

[07:45:00]

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Like even the case only.

VALENCIA (voice-over): Like so many others behind on their rent, Jasmine Cruz says she's living on borrowed time. A federal halt on evictions is set to expire December 31st. Cruz, a single mother, who owes her landlord two months of rent, was recently issued a warrant to pay it. Every day, she wakes up expecting to be evicted.

JASMINE CRUZ, RESIDENT WITH EVICTION NOTICE: I'm 25 years old, I'm a single mother, and I try on my own, off of like one income, it's not easy. I've been struggling.

VALENCIA: Now, with a 2-month-old son, no job, and unable to pay for child care during the pandemic, she looks after her son full-time. With nowhere else to go and no one to count on, Cruz came here to the Thrive Resource Center. Operated out of a makeshift office in an apartment complex, Monica DeLancy helps those in Atlanta who are at risk of being evicted. All are either black or Latino, and DeLancy knows their story well.

MONICA DELANCY, FOUNDER, THRIVE RESOURCE CENTER: They put you out, they put me out last year, year to the date, with a Christmas tree, on a cold day like this, with the Christmas tree. We don't want you to get to that point, if you have to move, we want you to move with dignity. We want you to move and pack your things up, and we'll find you a place, but we don't want to be forced out because kids do not know how to get over that. Adults can, kids don't know how to.

VALENCIA: Kids like 9-year-old Fantasia, who lives with her grandma, Garnell Hodge. Hodge lost her job in the service industry because of COVID.

(on camera): You got this on your door --

(voice-over): Last week, Hodge says Fantasia started to realize how bad things were when the family got an eviction notice.

GARNELL HODGE, RESIDENT WITH EVICTION NOTICE: I don't feel -- I don't have anywhere to go, we've got places that's so high and I don't have much income.

VALENCIA: Black and Latino families consistently report low confidence in the ability to pay rent during the pandemic, according to the National Low-Income Housing Coalition, communities of color are the hardest hit by the eviction crisis and represent 80 percent of people facing eviction. In Atlanta, the United Way says 95 percent of the families they help who are facing eviction are black.

PROTIP BISWAS, VICE PRESIDENT FOR HOMELESSNESS, UNITED WAY OF GREATER ATLANTA: Thus, like I said, 2,500 applications in process. And there are thousands more --

VALENCIA (on camera): I mean, you're getting --

BISWAS: That went out --

VALENCIA: To the point where you can't accept, you can't help everybody that needs help.

BISWAS: Not returning that help, the funding expires end of December. That is the biggest plea we have. There's some way we can extend it, so that we can keep helping families.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

VALENCIA: The sad reality is not everyone is going to get help. Here outside of the United Way, they're only able to help people who live within the city limits. Thousands had been turned away during this pandemic. That's thousands who are either unaware or unable to find resources. And Erica, I've got to tell you, our crew really got some perspective here on just who is the hardest hit by this pandemic.

HILL: Yes, absolutely --

VALENCIA: Erica --

HILL: Great reporting, Nick, so important. And what we really stuck with me is what Monica DeLancy said, it's about being able to move with dignity. Dignity matters.

VALENCIA: Yes --

HILL: And so many people in this country who are facing these issues, they deserve to have their dignity intact. Nick, thank you.

VALENCIA: That's right.

HILL: Well, with that, we know there's still no stimulus deal. Congress not getting it done. And now a threat of a government shutdown tonight if Congress can't come to an agreement. We'll speak with a top Democratic congressman, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

BERMAN: This morning, congressional leaders scrambling to finalize a $900 billion Coronavirus Relief Bill. But it's growing increasingly likely that Congress won't be able to get the long-awaited plan through both chambers ahead of a government shutdown. Joining me now is Congressman Hakeem Jeffries, he is the chair of the House Democratic Caucus. Congressman, thanks so much for being with us. What's going on?

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): Good morning.

BERMAN: I mean, how close are you to a deal?

JEFFRIES: Well, I think we're extremely close, and we hope to be able to get this done if not today at some point, tomorrow or over the weekend. We will remain in Washington for as long as it takes to provide the American people with the relief that they need. This is a once in a century pandemic, it requires a once in a century congressional response that is meaningful, comprehensive and continuing.

BERMAN: What's the hold up?

JEFFRIES: Well, it's a $900 billion deal, and so we want to make sure that we dot every 'I', cross every 'T' to address the pain, the suffering and the death that the American people are experiencing from our perspective.

We want to make sure that we obviously extend out unemployment insurance benefits, that we have direct payment checks to the American people, that we provide assistance for child-care needs, for housing needs, extend out the foreclosure and eviction moratorium, and also make sure that we're dealing with the food insecurity issues that so many Americans across the country are confronting at this moment.

We expect that an agreement will be reached, we've heard that from Speaker Pelosi and Mitch McConnell. We expect that this will be a down payment on what needs to happen moving forward under a Biden administration.

BERMAN: One of the hold-ups we understand from reports is that there now seems to be an effort among some Republicans to limit the ability of the Fed to put more money into the system to help people, a decision that could have an impact into the beginning of the Biden administration. Is this something that concerns you? What impact would that have?

JEFFRIES: It definitely concerns me. We should not put the incoming administration into a straitjacket, particularly when the response of the current administration has been an unmitigated disaster, and the president has been missing in action for weeks now as the American people suffer. And so why in the world would we limit the ability of the next president of the United States and his administration to crush the virus, to provide direct assistance and relief to the American people and to revive our economy?

[07:55:00]

It's irresponsible, and I don't expect that we will allow it to happen.

BERMAN: Possible the government shuts down? JEFFRIES: There's no circumstance where the government will shut

down. If there is a need to pass a short-term 24-hour or so, continuing resolution in order to allow the negotiations to come to a close, that will happen. But as I mentioned, John, we are here until we get this done for the people.

BERMAN: You are chair of the House Democratic Caucus. Your caucus will be -- have a much narrower majority than ever before. Now that Deb Haaland if she is confirmed to be the Secretary of the Interior, you will have a majority of just three votes. How will that complicate your life?

JEFFRIES: Well, we're going to remain unified. And first of all, I think it's important to acknowledge and recognize the historic significance and importance of this nomination of Deb Haaland, she's been an extraordinary member of Congress, she will be an extraordinary Interior Secretary for Indian country and for all of America. We're going to operate in a unified fashion, we're going to proceed with precision on behalf of the American people, and we'll have a president who we can work with to build back better for the people.

BERMAN: Yes, precision, a euphemism for no margin of error. I could see the smile on your face as you were saying that. Listen, congressman, I want to ask you about the vaccine. We're waiting for Vice President Mike Pence to get the vaccine, he will receive it in just minutes along with the Surgeon General Jerome Adams.

The attending physician of the capitol made clear that all house members are eligible to receive the vaccine. It's about continuity of leadership. It's something that could be an example to the American people. When do you anticipate that you will get the vaccine?

JEFFRIES: Well, I'm not sure, I am waiting for guidance from the public health officials. We want to make sure that the first responders have gotten vaccinated in my home community throughout the city and beyond the country. It is my understanding that there is some sort of national security directive that the congressional physician has made reference to in terms of continuity of government.

It's also important for us to set an example, particularly in the African-American community where there is a great deal of skepticism about being vaccinated, that the vaccine is safe, effective and necessary in order to help us crush this virus and move beyond the pandemic. But I do want to be respectful of the first responders here in D.C., in my home communities and throughout the country.

BERMAN: Yes, I get that, and I think everyone is sensitive to that. Dr. Sanjay Gupta who just received the vaccine a few minutes ago on our air, he wanted to make clear to the people that he is not skipping the line. No one is talking about skipping the line.

Sanjay got it because he is in the operating room every week. In theory, you would get the vaccine because you are a member of Congress and a leader in the African-American community and can set an example. When you talk to the members of your caucus, is this something that you will encourage them all to do? JEFFRIES: Well, you know, it's not an issue that has really come up

yet because I think we're all focused on trying to arrive at this agreement to be able to provide the relief to the American people that they so desperately need.

You know, we acted in the house on May 15th with a $3.4 trillion package, the Heroes Act, then we acted again on October 1st. Now, we're here on the eve of Christmas almost still waiting for our Republican colleagues in the Senate and the president to get their act together. Hopefully, we can get this done this weekend and then we can proceed to addressing these issues connected to the vaccination.

BERMAN: Look, I know the American people, people who are unemployed, people in need right now are looking at Capitol Hill, saying there is no reason it needed to take this long. So, please, on behalf of them, get it done as quickly as you can.

JEFFRIES: That's the plan --

BERMAN: Congressman Jeffries -- Congressman Jeffries, we appreciate your time this morning, thanks so much for being with us.

JEFFRIES: Thank you, John.

BERMAN: And moments from now, you're looking at live pictures, we will watch the vice president, the surgeon general receive the coronavirus vaccine live. NEW DAY continues right now.

All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world, this is NEW DAY, Erica Hill in for Alisyn today. What a morning.

HILL (voice-over): What a morning is right.

BERMAN (voice-over): It really has been remarkable to see. It has felt historic, you probably just watched it live moments ago, CNN's Dr. Sanjay Gupta getting the coronavirus vaccine live on TV. That was the moment it happened. He didn't wince at all.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: It's done, you are really good.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Thank you, oh, yes, that's good.

HILL: Despite --

GUPTA: Thank you very much.

BERMAN: I've got to say that was just such an amazing moment.

HILL: Yes --

(END VIDEOTAPE) BERMAN (on camera): And just moments from now, we're going to see the vice president of the United States, Mike Pence, his wife, Karen Pence and the Surgeon General Jerome Adams, they will be vaccinated live on TV. This is something people need to see. This is something that's good for all of us to see. Obviously scientists say that the vast majority of Americans need to get vaccinated in order to crush the virus.