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Emergency U.K. Meeting Underway as Concerns Grows over New COVID Variant; Attorney Who Has Promoted Conspiracy Theories Pushing Trump to Seize and Inspect Voting Machines; House to Vote Today on COVID Relief Package. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 21, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: All right. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

We have breaking news this morning, an emergency meeting underway in the United Kingdom where a new variant of coronavirus spreading beyond control. Health officials say it could be up to 70 percent more transmissible than the current variant. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson just imposed major new restrictions. London is in close to lockdown.

Overnight, a growing number of countries, including Canada, banned travel from the United Kingdom. This morning, as of this morning, the United States not one of these countries. Why?

And this morning, there are new efforts to determine whether vaccines, the two vaccines that we have right now, work against the new variant. We do have more vaccine news this morning, the first, doses of Moderna's vaccine expected to be administered today. And President- elect Joe Biden receives his first dose of vaccine in just a few hours.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEW DAY: As for President Trump, he remains largely absent when it comes to the virus. Instead, he's spending his final days in the White House scheming to steal the election he lost. Former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell was spotted at the White House again last night. The New York Times reporting Powell is actually pushing the Trump administration to seize and inspect voting machines.

Now, this comes just days after a heated Oval Office meeting with the president involving Powell, his former national security adviser, Michael Flynn, on hand, where the idea of martial law, using the military to redo the election was actually discussed. It's not clear whether the president endorsed the idea. We did, learn though that others in the room pushed back forcefully and shut it down.

BERMAN: We're going to have much more on that in just a moment. Maggie Haberman will be joining us.

But joining us first, Dr. Celine Gounder, she is an infectious disease specialist and a member of the Biden team's coronavirus advisory board. Dr. Gounder, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

We just learned that Russia is now added to the list of countries that have banned travel from the United Kingdom, nation after nation overnight, and saying, we're not going to let flights in from the U.K. Boris Johnson has enacted new restrictions on travel within the country, London and all but a lockdown, because of concerns about this new variant of coronavirus.

Let's start there. Explain what that means. When we say a new variant, what does that mean?

DR. CELINE GOUNDER, BIDEN TRANSITION CORONAVIRUS ADVISORY BOARD MEMBER: John, this is what viruses do. They spread, they multiply, they mutate. And every time the virus spreads from one person to the next, you're giving the virus the opportunity to mutate. So the best way to prevent viral mutation is by preventing spread.

Now, the real question here is, is this mutation really important. And so, what we're going to be looking at very carefully is whether the vaccines will still protect against this new variant and whether the monoclonal antibodies, so the cocktail, for example, that the president received when he was sick, whether those still work against this variant.

BERMAN: There are three possible questions, right? One, do vaccines work? We think probably, we're looking into it, but probably. Number two, is it more deadly? The answer to that right now, probably not, but you want to learn more. But then the third question, which remains unanswered, completely unanswered, and maybe answered in the positive is, is it more easily transmissible?

In the United Kingdom, we are hearing that they think it might be up to 70 percent more transmissible than current strains. Why would that be?

GOUNDER: Well, this has to do with the way the spike protein, so that's on the surface of the viruses, is mutating. And it appears to bind more tightly to the human cells that it infects. Now, again, we still don't know whether what we're seeing on that micro level translates truly to this virus being -- this variant being more easily transmitted. And so that is something we're going to be looking at.

BERMAN: If it is more transmissible, even if it's not more lethal, that would be of concern. Because, still, very few people have received the vaccine, obviously, we know that it's a dangerous virus to get and if more people are getting it, particularly in the United Kingdom right now, but maybe in other places around the world, what concerns do you have about that?

GOUNDER: Yes, and I think you're making an important point, which is that this is not a more deadly variant. We have seen this virus circulating in the U.K. for at least a few months now. And we have not seen an increased rate of severe illness or death as a result of this. So I do think that's important to emphasize.

The other thing here is that because this virus has been circulating for some period of time in the U.K. already, the cat is out of the bag. It has spread elsewhere, including the United States. You know, some people have talked about the -- whether we should have travel bans ourselves here, for example, our own governor here in New York State has said, why don't we have a travel ban while Canada next door has one? And I'm not sure that's really going to help, because that new variant is very likely already here.

So I think what we really need to be doing is focusing on the things that we know will prevent spread of this new variant, which is the same thing that works against spread of the coronavirus, in general.

[07:05:09]

So, again, that is masks, social distancing, if you're going to be around other people, do it outdoors. And with the holidays coming up, this is really not the time to be traveling.

BERMAN: You just answered my next question, but let's hit it again here. There are countries, country after country, overnight, and Russia has just joined that list, has banned travel from the United Kingdom. The United States has not.

Andrew Cuomo, the governor of New York, would like to see it. He says there's six flights a day coming in from the United Kingdom from to New York alone. Why wouldn't that be helpful?

GOUNDER: Well, as we saw when there were efforts to ban travel from China before, people rushed to travel. So you're actually -- the likelihood that that could backfire, that people will actually travel more all of a sudden in advance of impending bans, you know, I think that, in and of itself, is also very dangerous.

So, you know, you kind of have to weigh the risks and benefits here and given that this new variant is in all likelihood already here, I don't really think that a ban at this point would really help us.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about one policy decision that was made yesterday, the CDC voting to recommend the next group of people, after the current group, to receive the coronavirus vaccine. They say essential workers, frontline essential workers, people who work in the food industry, police, firefighters, but also seniors, people 75 years and older. And that's actually pushing that group, seniors, closer to the front of the line than had been expected. Why was that move made and what do you make of it?

GOUNDER: Well, big picture, the CDC is trying to vaccinate people who are at high-risk for death, at high-risk for exposure, and at high- risk for disease. And so the seniors, those over 75, in addition to those living in nursing homes, they're the ones that are at the most risk for severe disease and death. So if you're right to reach that group, then it makes sense to be vaccinating over 75. If you're right to reach the group that's most highly exposed, most likely to be infected, then you're looking at essential workers. And so they're trying to plans those two priorities here.

BERMAN: Dr. Gounder, thank you so much for being with us. I think you've explained a ton to us this morning, maybe eased some concerns, but obviously a lot to look at over the next few days, so thank you.

GOUNDER: My pleasure.

BERMAN: Erica?

HILL: Joining us now, Maria Van Kerkhove. She's the World Health Organization's Technical Lead for COVID-19 and an infectious disease epidemiologist. Dr. Van Kerkhove, great to have you with us this morning.

As we're all trying to, you know, really just make sense of what we're hearing about this variant, when you hear that it could spread up to 70 percent faster, what should we take away from that?

DR. MARIA VAN KERKHOVE, COVID-19 TECHNICAL LEAD, WHO HEALTH EMERGENCIES PROGRAMME: Yes, thanks, Erica, for having me on the show again. It's nice to see you.

Yes, I mean, we are hearing that it could spread up to 70 percent faster. But what that means is that there are scientists in the U.K. that are evaluating the surveillance data, the genomic sequencing data, and looking at the spread in parts of England and across England.

What they're seeing is that the reproduction number, so this is the number of individuals that an infected person transmits to, has increased from 1.1 to 1.5. And I say that and it may -- because I just want to put into context this up to 70 percent increase, these are in the presence of interventions that are put in place across England. So it does mean that we have to work a little bit harder about preventing this spread.

But what we do know is that the interventions that work about preventing the spread for this variant also work for the viruses that are circulating around. So this is physical distancing, it's making sure we avoid crowded spaces, we do things outdoors as opposed to indoors, and look at ways that we can reduce our risk every single day. And I think that's a really important message to get across.

Viruses mutate and they change all the time. We have a strict process in place, working with colleagues in the U.K. and all over the world to really evaluate what these mutations are and what they mean. So far, we don't see any increase in disease severity or clinical picture, but those studies are underway. And there are a number of studies that are looking at the body's ability to develop antibodies.

The U.K. scientists are looking at those studies now. As we speak, the studies are ongoing. We don't anticipate any impact on the vaccine and on vaccination. And I think that's really important, as well. But the studies need to be done. We need to make sure we follow the science. And we will report -- the U.K. and the WHO will report information as soon as we learn it.

HILL: So to that point, reporting information as soon as we learn it, so it's my understanding that this variant was first known some time back in September. For a lot of people, I think, waking up this morning though, it's going to feel like it came out of nowhere. And all of a sudden, we're seeing more than 20 countries with these U.K. travel bans, even if it's for a short period of time.

[07:10:04]

And that can feel really concerning. Should there have been more measures in place earlier to prevent this variant from spreading? It's already in a number of countries, as we know.

KERKHOVE: So this variant under investigation, as the U.K. is calling it, this is Lineage 117, was detected through routine surveillance activities through genomic sequencing. That's occurring across the country. What they noticed in the southeast of England, there was still increasing transmission as they were moving from their tier 2 to tier 3, these so-called lockdown measures that were put in place. And what they did is they retrospectively went back and identified that some of these individuals had this lineage back in September.

They alerted us on the 14th of December of this variant under investigation through some of their phylogenetic analysis. This is analysis of the full genome sequences as well as their detailed studies around the surveillance data. Over the last week, we've been working with scientists in the U.K. through our regional office in Europe as well as European Centers for Disease Control to better understand what the studies are that are under way.

But, again, these viruses mutate all the time. What is interesting about this one is that it's a combination of mutations and it's more than one. And that's why it was alerted in the southeast of England.

HILL: All right. Dr. Van Kerkhove, I appreciate you joining us this morning. Thank you.

KERKHOVE: Thanks for having me.

HILL: Just head, new details about the crazy and, frankly, flat-out dangerous ideas President Trump is reportedly now considering in his efforts to overturn the election. Trump's own advisers now sounding the alarm, which should tell you just how serious this is. Maggie Haberman broke the story and she joins us, next.

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[07:15:00]

BERMAN: Developing this morning, President Trump's former lawyer and conspiracy theorist, Sidney Powell spotted at the White House again last night days after this heated Oval Office meeting where the possibility of declaring martial law in an effort to overturn the election was discussed. Let that sink in. they talked about martial law inside the Oval Office.

The New York Times reports that Powell met with White House staffers last night about her pitch for some kind of an executive order to seize and examine voting machines.

Joining us now, New York Times Reporter, The Times reporter who initially broke this story, CNN Political Analyst Maggie Haberman.

Maggie, I am thrilled you are here this morning, because when you speak this sentence out loud, that there was a meeting inside the White House where the possibility of declaring martial law was discussed, I don't think we can let that wash over us. That seems like a really big deal.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Even the mere possibility that the president was asking about military intervention is, of course, a big deal. You know, we have had several mini fire alarms over four years and I think, frankly, people have become numb to what they hear about this president doing.

This meeting was different and it was different in part, John, because of what he was saying and in part because a number of people who are typically, you know, in the president's camp, who have been for a long time, who have favored a lot of his loyalty perches and so forth, were alarmed by what he was talking about. And that, I think, is something else that viewers ought to understand of what we're talking about.

He also was pitched on this executive order that came up again at the White House last night about seizing voting machines to examine them and he considered appointing Sidney Powell, who has made all kinds of wild and baseless claims about widespread fraud in the election as a special counsel serving inside the White House.

This was a many-hours-long meeting, people were screaming at each other. Basically, everybody was opposed to what Sidney Powell and Michael Flynn, who I should also mention, the former national security adviser, who called on the president to invoke the military on T.V. last week, was also present. This was a wild moment.

HILL: Wild, I mean, it almost feels like an understatement, I have to say. I've just been reading the details and hearing you speak about it. The fact, too, that the president was really serious about some of this, including the part about appointing Sidney Powell as a special counsel. Now, I know your reporting is he may have moved away from that a little bit, but the fact that he was all in on this, at least at one point, I think also points to the seriousness of where we're at and the fact that 30 days is a long, long time, Maggie.

HABERMAN: That's exactly right, Alisyn. We are -- excuse me, Erica. That's exactly right. We are entering a fraught and potentially dangerous period of time because the president is running out of days, he is increasingly desperate to try to overturn the results of the election. He is looking for people who will sign on to his argument that this was stolen from him.

And he is finding it in people like Sidney Powell, in Michael Flynn, in Rudy Giuliani, and these are the folks who have been around him. But even Giuliani, I should point out, was against this idea of Sidney Powell as special counsel. He was against this executive order. He was against these questions about the military.

Nonetheless, the president is very good at waiting people out and asking same questions over and over again. Sidney Powell did not meet with the president last night is my understanding. But the mere fact that she was back at the White House, you can't just walk into the White House. You have to be allowed in. Somebody let her in to talk about her ideas.

BERMAN: There seem to be three ideas that are floating out there. Number one, Michael Flynn's idea of bringing the military, declaring martial law, number two, appointing Sidney Powell some kind of special prosecutor, and number three, seizing the voting machines, having Homeland Security seizing the voting machines.

Ken Cuccinelli, who is no shrinking violet, apparently says, you can't do that. Homeland Security can't do that. The states own the voting machines. Maggie -- go ahead.

HABERMAN: That's exactly right.

BERMAN: One of the things you said is that people are alarmed, that people are alarmed inside the White House by what's happening. I guess I want to ask, which people and how alarmed? I mean, what are they willing to do about this now?

HABERMAN: I think that's the question, John.

[07:20:00]

Look, we'll see if people -- if you see people quit, it could have some relevance to what they're hearing from the president. It also could be that there's only four week left and lots of people are looking to leave, regardless. But it's basically people don't want to be associated with the kinds of ideas that he is talking about. You are seeing silence at the moment, for instance, from some of the people who have been the most vocal in supporting some of the president's ideas.

And I just want to make clear, John. Those are the three that we know about. This meeting went on for several hours, started in the Oval Office, continued up in the residence at some point. People were drifting in and out. There were all kinds of things discussed. Those are just what we're aware of.

People are concerned about what he's doing. I know there's lots of eye rolling and these are people who are trying to launder their reputations. If they were doing that, they would try to attach their names to it. There are people that are afraid that the guardrails that had existed before simply aren't there right now. And that all of the reasons that people, I believe, he would get this out of his system and move on have yet to appear, John.

I should add one note, the president is supposed to go to Mar-a-Lago, his private club in Florida, on Wednesday. I think whether he goes ahead with that is a big question. He's been leaning toward it, but he's gone back and forth several times.

HILL: Why wouldn't he go, Maggie?

HABERMAN: Well, he wouldn't if he wanted to stay and try to look as if he is continuing to exert whatever pressure campaign he can do undo the election results. Most of his advisers would like him to go. They think he needs a change of scenery. They think among the problems that's happening is that he's got cabin fever. He had not wanted to go for a while.

And, again, part of it is, I think, wanting to look as if he's focused on this self-given task at hand, Erica, of trying to overturn the election. Part of it is that the first family knows that their days in the White House are waning and I think that they are reluctant to lose too many of them.

BERMAN: Where is Mike Pence in all of this, Maggie? Because it was interesting, on Friday, when he received the vaccination and gave that speech, there were a couple of lines about President Trump there. But to me, it seemed like much less of the dear leader, you know, Pence just heaping praise on President Trump every third word that we normally get. Do you have any sense of where he stands in some of these machinations?

HABERMAN: Look, I don't think that he is in favor of these machinations. I think there's a reason you're not seeing him as part of these meetings or talked about as part of these meetings. And to your point, he did what the president won't do on Friday, which try to instill vaccine safety and make clear that this is something that the public should do as President Trump has raised questions in people's minds about whether speed was being prioritized over the science.

Mike Pence is somebody who wants to run for president in the future. Hitching his wagon to this is not a good way to do it. I think you can say that about basically everybody who wants to run in 2024.

HILL: As all of this is happening, what is not happening is the job of president. What is not happening is the running of the country, as we know. And as we're looking at this cyber attack, not surprising that the president is pushing back on even Secretary Pompeo, who's been pretty clear at this point that Russia is behind it.

But that's one of the few things, right, that he is taking time away from his, I need to steal back the election plan, to actually talk about on Twitter, to push back on the idea that Russia could be behind this. And I think that speaks volumes too, Maggie, that that is one of the few things getting attention.

HABERMAN: That's exactly right, it's one of the few things getting attention in part because he's seeing it on television, pushed back at him. And there is this sort of self-feeding loop with him in terms of news content coming in and then coming back out of his mouth.

But part of the thing is that anytime he hears Russia, his reflex is to defend Russia and suggest that everything goes back to the investigation himself. And he is treating this as if it is part of that. He's also treating as if this is proof that somehow the election was stolen from him. It can't be both. It can't be both, that this is a hoax, this hack, and this is why there's proof that machines can be tampered with. But he has never let logical inconsistency stop him. This one, I would say, as dangerous as what he was saying on Friday night was, he took pains to deny the martial law piece on Twitter. We stand by our reporting completely. But what he's saying about the Russia hacking is really dangerous. And the person who's going to inherit all of this is Joe Biden when he takes office.

BERMAN: Bookends of dangerous there. And just to go back to the Michael Flynn, I understand why you stand by your reporting, Maggie, because I want to remind people of the timeline here. And I think we have the sound. Michael Flynn -- can we play Michael Flynn? Michael Flynn went on T.V. and mused about martial law. Listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICHAEL FLYNN, FORMER NATIONAL SECURITY ADVISER: He could order the -- within the swing states, if he wanted to, he could take military capabilities, and he could place them in those states and basically rerun an election in each of those states. I mean, it's not unprecedented.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: As I said last hour, that's completely off the hook. It's completely off the hook. And, Maggie, that got him an invitation to the White House. That happened before he was invited to the White House, put in the Oval Office, and asked about that, correct?

HABERMAN: Yes. So the fact that the president did not, you know, endorse this idea doesn't change the fact that this was still under discussion. And this was still something that came up in this incredibly controversial and raucous and at times heated meeting.

And the fact that -- to put it a different way, John, the fact that Michael Flynn was in the Oval Office at all, he was pardoned by the president a couple of weeks ago. He was fired almost four years ago to the month for allegations that he had lied to the FBI and that he lied to Vice President Mike Pence. Yes, there has been, you know, pushback on the reporting about whether he lied to the FBI. I don't think Mike Pence still feels as if he was not told the truth. It's very telling that this is where the president is choosing to spend time and with whom in his final couple of weeks.

BERMAN: Maggie, thank you so much for being with us this morning. Keep us posted? I mean, this feels like pretty important stuff, so I appreciate it.

Just hours from now, the House expected to vote on long-awaited relief for struggling American workers. We'll tell you more of what is in the stimulus deal from a lawmaker who has been working on it, next.

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[07:30:00]

BERMAN: The House is set to vote today on a $900 billion.