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Admiral Brett Giroir, Assistant Secretary for Health at Department of Health and Human Services, Interviewed on New Strain of Coronavirus in U.K. and Distribution of Coronavirus Vaccines in U.S.; Rep. Adam Kinzinger (R-IL) Interviewed on Reports that Idea of Martial Law Floated at Oval Office Meeting with President Trump. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired December 21, 2020 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: President Trump largely absent again when it comes to the virus. Instead, he's spending his final days in the White House scheming to steal the election he lost. Former Trump lawyer Sidney Powell, we've learned, was at the White House again last night. The "New York Times" reporting Powell is pushing the Trump administration to seize and inspect voting machines.

All this coming just days after a heated Oval Office meeting involving the president, Sidney Powell was there, his former national security adviser Michael Flynn there as well. And in that meeting we've learned the idea of martial law, using the military to redo the election, was discussed. This of course happening just a day after Michael Flynn floated that idea. It's unclear whether the president endorsed it, but we have learned others in the room pushed back forcefully and shot it down.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Joining us now is Admiral Brett Giroir, Assistant Secretary for Health at the Department of Health and Human Services. Admiral, thanks so much for being with us. We learned moments ago that Russia has banned travel from the United Kingdom, India, Canada. There is concern over this new variant of coronavirus which appears to be spreading beyond control in the United Kingdom. What's the latest on what the Trump administration, this country knows about this new variant?

ADM. BRETT GIROIR, HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES ASSISTANT SECRETARY: Well, thank you for having me on about this important topic. I had an extensive discussion with Dr. Redfield and his top people last night, and this is what we know. The variant that's being discussed was first identified in September. So it's not something that just arose in the last week. It has become of concern because it is becoming the dominant variant in the U.K. The inference is that because it is the dominant variant, it may be more transmissible, and that may be true. It has not been proven, but it may be true.

Let me tell you what there is no evidence of, nor reason to believe. It is not any more lethal or any more dangerous than the normal coronavirus, no evidence to suggest that, no reason to believe it. There is also no evidence to suggest nor reason to believe that it would evade our vaccines that we have right now. Remember, our vaccines developed antibodies against multiple parts of that spiked protein, not just one that's the mutated one, so we are very encouraged about that. But of course, we have a lot of work to do to understand this more fully.

BERMAN: You raised the three, I think, most important questions about this, and I'll take it in the reverse order. Number one, do the vaccines that we have work against them? as of this morning, every reason to believe that they do. Number two, is it inherently more deadly? No. No reason to believe it is. But there is that other question out there right now, which is it more transmissible? And there is concern within the United Kingdom that it might be up to 70 percent more transmissible, spreading more easily and more quickly. What are the implications of that in and of itself?

GIROIR: The implications is that it's easier to catch, it's easier to spread, if that is the case. And again, I'm not trying to downplay this. It hasn't been proven yet, but there's lots of inferences that would make you believe it is more transmissible.

But I do want to reinforce to the American people is that the countermeasures that we talk about, like 7.9 million vaccines going out this week, wearing a mask, avoiding crowded places, limiting your indoor, is still the best mitigation against whatever strain of the virus comes. So we are not powerless. We need to take this with great concern, but we have to know that the tools and weapons we've developed will be effective against this. We have every reason to believe the vaccine will be effective. We will be able to prove that in a very short period of time, but there's no reason for catastrophic thinking, because the vaccine is coming.

BERMAN: How much do you know about whether or not this variant is here in the United States?

GIROIR: So we don't know whether it is or it isn't. Again, it was identified in September, so there's been a lot of travel back and forth. In general, the typical test that we do to detect the virus, except for a very specific one, would not show this variant. We do a complete genome sequence on about 1,000 or 2,000 viruses per day, but as you know, we have a couple hundred thousand. So it could be in the United States and we might not have yet detected it, because, again, it didn't start last week. This was first identified back in September.

BERMAN: There does seem to be new concern, though, about how fast it is spreading, at least this week or recently within the United Kingdom, enough concern that several nations, and just moments ago Russia, India, Canada overnight have banned travel from the United Kingdom. What is the latest thinking on what the U.S. will do there?

GIROIR: I think we're waiting for CDC recommendations. Last night, talking to Dr. Redfield, there was not a recommendation for that. Again, every hour we get more information. I think as we have done and we need to do, we need to listen to the best experts, the CDC, Dr. Redfield. We have a task force meeting today, so we'll make sure that everyone has updates. But as of now, I have no new updates based on that.

BERMAN: Possible, though, that if the updates come in that we might ban travel from the United Kingdom?

[08:05:00]

GIROIR: I think everything needs to be on the table. We need to look at the data. We need to examine the science, understand the risks, and then make a decision. It will be based on evidence and data and what's best for the American people. So I think everything is possible. We just need to put everything on the table, have an open scientific discussion, and make the best recommendation.

BERMAN: New York Governor Andrew Cuomo is concerned that it hasn't happened already. He says that there are I think six flights a day coming from the United Kingdom. Makes sense to him that they would be banned now. What is your message to him?

GIROIR: My message to him is to practice what he preaches, to listen to the scientists and the best epidemiologists in the CDC. We know that the governor has been out front on many issues, wanting 40,000 ventilators when he didn't need it, sending sick people back to nursing homes. So I would advise him just to listen to the best experts, that will be the best recommendation for the American people. We shouldn't jump to any conclusions or actions that could be counterproductive. Listen to the experts. They'll tell what you we need to do.

BERMAN: You said you talked to Dr. Redfield of the CDC last night. Some big news coming out of the CDC yesterday, which is new recommendations for who gets the next batch of vaccine, or the next group of people beyond the ones receiving it now to get the vaccine. Right now the ones who have gotten it in their arm so far have been medical workers, frontline medical workers, and also people in long- term care facilities. The next group of people will be essential workers, including food service, delivery, police, firefighters, but also seniors, people 75 years and older. And that thinking from the CDC hadn't really changed. That group, the seniors 75 and older, have sort of moved up in line and in priority. So why was that change made? Why do you think it's important?

GIROIR: Well, the secretary and I will get a formal briefing from Dr. Redfield today. But I do think the advice of ACIP was pretty important and pretty close to being on target. We know that over 75 years of age or those who have a high likelihood of dying, but they're also the people that are overcrowding the hospital system right now. Where we are in the country, we've got to relieve the burden on hospitals, on health care workers. And to do that, you need to vaccinate those who would wind up in the hospital, and that's the over 75.

So I think ACIP tried to strike, and I think they did a good job of it, of balancing certain essential frontline worker with those who are at high risk of overwhelming the hospital system and increasing the death rate that we have. So that's the rationale. I think everyone will be operating on those two parameters. That's a balance. It may vary a little bit state by state. If your hospital system is really crunched, you're going to lean heavily into the over 75 and maybe even those with comorbid conditions. If you have a little room, you're going to be leaning more towards the essential workers that are on the front line. But I think those are the two right category, and we have to work really intensely state by state to optimize that.

BERMAN: The Moderna vaccine could be going in people's arms within a few hours. How will that change? Where can that vaccine get to maybe the Pfizer vaccine can't get to as easily?

GIROIR: Both Pfizer and Moderna are excellent vaccines. And again, we will have 5.9 million Moderna this week, 2 million Pfizer, and there might be some extra doses in there, as we all know. So the idea about Moderna is that it can be transported not in the ultralow temperature freezers, but in a normal freezer, and it can be stable for up to a month in a typical refrigerator. It's also packed in smaller numbers of doses, so it makes it much more amenable to get to rural areas and to areas where transport may be prolonged.

Both vaccines can get there, but as you point out, Moderna has a little bit easier logistics. But both vaccines highly efficacious, very safe, and will put an end to this pandemic, 10 million, almost more than 10 million doses by the end of this week between last week and this week, 20 million at least by the first week in January, and another 30 million doses in January. So this is revving up quickly, and again, we have every reason to believe that the vaccine will be effective against any variant we've seen, including the new variant in the U.K.

BERMAN: I'm so glad you keep emphasizing that, because I do want people to know that even though there may be concerns and unanswered questions about how contagious or transmissible it is, you said 20 million by the first week in January. Can you be more specific, because it does seem that there has been some vagueness on how many people will be vaccinated by the end of the year. Initially we were told 20 million people by the end of the year, then we're hearing 20 million vaccines allocated by the end of the year. You just said by the first week in February. So how many people will get shots in their arms by January 1st?

GIROIR: I think we all listened to General Perna's briefing, and we will have enough vaccine doses made to vaccinate 20 million people by the end of the year, which means 40 million vaccine doses plus. But what he said is it may take during the first week to get the last part of that 20 million distributed, the first week in January.

[08:10:01]

So it's at the end of the year for manufacture, but it may bleed into the first week to get those distributed and vaccinated. So I think what he meant to imply yesterday and what we're operating on is 20 million people vaccinated certainly by the first week in January, and likely another 30 million people aside from this 20 million during the month of January.

Again, every Tuesday there's a specific allocation schedule that's told to the states based on the vaccine that's available. That's a Tuesday for the following week, so we're operating on the allocations from last Tuesday, which is the 7.9 million. We'll have another allocation done by tomorrow so the states can plan for that.

BERMAN: Admiral Giroir, I really appreciate you being with us this morning. We covered a lot of ground and answered a lot of questions.

GIROIR: We sure did.

BERMAN: Because I think there are a lot of questions that we all have this morning as we head into Christmas week, where everyone should stay safe and follow the CDC warnings, not gather in large groups, pay attention. I know you feel the same way. Thanks so much for being with us, Admiral.

GIROIR: Thank you.

BERMAN: All right, so this morning there are new concerns about who the president is listening to inside the White House when it comes to the election. The president had a discussion where they raised the subject of martial law. Don't let that just wash over you. There is one Republican member of the House pushing back against all this. He joins us next.

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HILL: Former Trump lawyer and noted conspiracy theorist Sidney Powell spotted again at the White House last night. She was also a part of a heated Oval Office meeting over the weekend, during which President Trump was pitched the idea of declaring martial law in an effort to overturn the election he lost. Sources tell CNN it wasn't clear whether the president endorsed the idea, however others in the room did forcefully push back and shot it down.

Joining us now, Republican Congressman Adam Kinzinger of Illinois. Good to see you this morning, Congressman. So when you hear about this Oval Office meeting, I know you've reacted to what Michael Flynn floated on Thursday, but that idea apparently got him into the White House, may have been one of the reasons he's here in an Oval Office meeting. We know he can't just walk in. The fact that this was even discussed, your reaction to that?

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): I think it's nuts. I think if look at what is being discussed with martial law, and I think there's a lot of people that don't necessarily understand what martial law is. They know that it basically sounds ominous, right. Martial law is basically the federal military coming in and suspending the authority of state or local governments. So you would have in essence the federal military come in and say we're taking over to re-run an election because this one wasn't to our liking.

And it's interesting, if you look at the president's statement of administration policy in 2019 on, I think the bill was HR-1, it was a Democratic election bill, which I voted against, one of their big points was that they believe in state and local control of elections, and I agree.

[08:15:00]

The idea of sending the military in to rerun it would be a massive, massive red line, and I'm certain the President won't do it. But I think it's certainly worth talking about because people around him are advocating for it.

HILL: Absolutely, and fact that it was a discussion that there had to be, you know, this forceful pushback, but it's not the only idea being floated, too.

I mean, we've also learned that Rudy Giuliani called D.H.S. and asked about seizing voting machines. There's this whole talk about seizing voting machines, which we know is not the purview, but even just the fact that that too, is being floated, and the fact that Sidney Powell as some sort of special counsel is being floated.

The President was, according to the reporting that we have, and to Maggie Haberman, who told us earlier this morning, he was pretty serious about it. I mean, what does that tell you about the next 30 days?

KINZINGER: It's going to be a wild ride, and I think here's the problem. I've been -- I hate Twitter, by the way, but I've been watching it because usually, you get the conspiracy theories that then end up making it mainstream within just a day or two.

You know, the idea that John Roberts yelled at the entire Supreme Court and forced the real conservatives to vote against the Texas thing -- a total lie, total fabrication -- but most people believe it's real now. The same with the Dominion voting machine issue, the quote-unquote, "68 percent error rate" that was found in an audit isn't true at all. And you find out that was a human error in a Republican county.

But the problem is, so much misinformation is thrown out constantly that you lose track of what you ever believe, you forget, if anything is ever debunked, and you're always on to the next piece of misinformation to the point where now, you believe that somehow on January 6th, the U.S. Congress can overthrow the results of an election, or that we even have a role in determining who the President is, we don't.

But there has been some not serious people in Congress that have convinced their base for retweets and money that we can, as Members of Congress go out and determine that we just want Trump to be the President again in 2020.

HILL: So to that point, you may hate Twitter, but you're on there a lot, and a lot of what you do, right, is pushing back on this misinformation, whether it's the President or Michael Flynn, or someone else up there. Do you find though that you're getting through?

KINZINGER: I hope so. And you know, it's like, well, I hate reading Twitter. I realized that's where a lot of stuff is happening. And you look at the conspiracy theories, and I think we don't do as a party, as a country enough to address the conspiracy theories as they come up.

Again, the people that believe that, you know, The Pentagon attacked a C.I.A. server farm in Germany that was hooked to Dominion that was stealing votes. There are people that believe this and you know, we've got to push that stuff back.

So I'm going to continue to be aggressive on it and I'm going to continue to probably get people making death threats or saying I'm in the pocket of China, or I started ISIS, it's fine. But the thing is, in the world of Twitter, people believe conspiracies until they're pushed back on.

HILL: Well, look, and a lot of them are -- these are deadly serious in some cases, and we've seen -- you sort of joke about the threats, but we know how serious those threats can be.

I do want to get your take to on this cyber hack, which I know you put out a statement on December 15th, and part of what you said was., "The most powerful weapon, the largest measure of security we could produce right now is some semblance of unity and recognition in one another, that we are Americans above all else."

Let's be clear, that's not happening. I mean, Secretary Pompeo on Friday, which was good, he came out and said, it's pretty clear that it's Russia. The President immediately pushing back. You pushing back a little bit on Twitter, too. And one of the things that you said is, you're not sure why it's so hard to admit.

I mean, why is it so hard for the President to admit that Russia could be behind this? I know, it's somewhat of a rhetorical question we have been asking for four years. Why is it so hard for the President to admit? Because this is about the country and this is about security?

KINZINGER: And I don't know. And that's why for me it's not a rhetorical question. I really want to know, and, you know, you do look at the policies of the administration, and they have been very aggressively anti-Russian.

We just got -- I got in the NDA, which may be actually vetoed, we will override it. You know, Nord Stream 2 sanctions, and there's been this pushback everywhere. But the President has not been able to say one word bad about Putin ever.

And so I don't know, it's quite obvious this is Russia. And, you know, maybe they did it with China, I don't know. But I know, we can't push Russia aside and say it probably wasn't them and it wasn't that big of a deal. This is going to be the biggest deal that we've had in this country in a very long time.

HILL: Real quick, because I just want to get you on the stimulus. But just what are your conversations behind the scenes with your fellow Republicans? Are you thinking that we are going to hear more vocal support like we heard from Secretary Pompeo from what you're talking about in terms of a unified response?

KINZINGER: Some -- there will be some, you know, and I think some will keep their head in the sand until January 20th and that's where we're at right now.

HILL: You sound like you've given up.

KINZINGER: I've kind of lost hope for having like a big movement of, you know my fellow Republicans to join me in this, but that's all right. Everybody makes their own decision. I don't put anything on them. It's just -- I'm going to do what I think is right.

[08:20:08]

HILL: Lastly, in terms of the stimulus that we're looking for. I'm still waiting on the language, as I understand it for the bill, but votes could come today. Are you happy?

KINZINGER: I'm happy that we've gotten to something. I want to see what's in it, obviously, because we don't know. But it's probably not going to be pretty, but it's better than nothing. That's how government works.

I just -- you know, we're sitting here, December, what -- 21st today. We should have done this, you know, weeks and weeks ago. It's just another problem where the system is broken that we all need to just put some of our partisan stripes aside sometimes.

HILL: Quick, yes or no, Congresswoman Spanberger said earlier, she thinks there's a little bit of blame to go around everywhere in terms of this. Do you agree?

KINZINGER: Yes, totally. Totally.

HILL: Congressman Adam Kinzinger, always appreciate it. Thank you. Happy Holidays.

KINZINGER: You bet. You, too.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, I want to bring in CNN White House correspondent, John Harwood. John, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

Adam Kinzinger -- Congressman McKenzie doesn't want to be on Twitter. I guarantee you, he doesn't want to be on Twitter, you know, taking on the President or right here. But he's not afraid to show his face. He basically thinks he has to when others aren't at this point and it is pretty telling. You know, our reporting out of the White House and Maggie Haberman is reporting that we had this morning out of the White House, these meetings that have been going on.

The president talking about the possibility of Martial Law whether or not it was ruled out, talking about seizing voting machines, talking about appointing Sidney Powell. They are alarming to Adam Kinzinger. And Maggie reports they are alarming to people inside the White House. But how alarming and why won't they show their faces like Adam Kinzinger just did?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, a lot of people are making money off Donald Trump, making political careers off of Donald Trump out of surfing in his wake, and trying not to get crosswise with the currents that he is leading.

But look, it's inescapable at this point. And it is a very difficult thing for Americans to deal with. But the guy who is going to be President for another 30 days, who has control that of the nuclear codes is a kook and he is surrounding himself with kooks and it's dangerous. They're talking about crazy ideas.

And Republicans by and large, unlike Adam Kinzinger, are not standing up and calling him out because they're too afraid for their own personal interest to do it.

The good news for the country is there's only 30 more days of this, but it's going to be a wild ride.

BERMAN: I have to say, this meeting happened Friday, the reporting on it happened Friday night. And again, they talked about Martial Law. They talked about using U.S. troops to force new elections in some states, and they talked about a number of things also on Friday, all the reporting happened, and then Sidney Powell back at the White House Sunday night.

So this is an ongoing discussion, John, and I'm glad that you're not -- I mean, every time that I start thinking about other things this weekend, it just came back in my head, they are talking about Martial Law inside the Oval Office. It just seems to be one of these things that you just can't let wash over you.

HARWOOD: Look, that's why I say he's a kook. It's a crazy idea. It's nutty. And the very idea that he is entertaining this from Michael Flynn, who of course, was a felon who lied to the F.B.I. who the President pardoned, who knows information about Donald Trump.

And by the way, what Michael Flynn was branded a felon, pled guilty to doing, was lying about Russia, which is the other thing that you were talking about both with Congressman Kinzinger, as well as Congresswoman Spanberger.

It is inescapable at this point to look at what the President has done for four years: Helsinki, what he is doing right now contradicting his own Secretary of State -- it's inescapable to conclude that the President of the United States is compromised by Russia.

Now, we don't know the nature of the compromise, whether it's a material thing, something they know about him, financially or otherwise, or whether it is a psychological thing. You know, you talked before with Congresswoman Spanberger about how triggered he is about Russia, and that calls into question the legitimacy of his election.

Whatever it is, the President is disabled from protecting the United States' national interest vis-a-vis Russia and it is glaringly obvious and anybody who with their eyes open can see it.

HILL: And John, that also sends a very clear message to Russia.

HARWOOD: No kidding. Now, look, the President has been doing this for four years. Remember, before the President was a candidate, Russia was his financial benefactor. He was pursuing a business deal with Russia as he ran for President.

He hired a Putin aligned campaign manager. He took a meeting, his aides and kids took a meeting with people representing that they were going to help him on behalf of the Russian government.

He fired the F.B.I. Director who was investigating those connections. He then took a series of actions that Robert Mueller laid out that amounted to obstruction of justice, though he was not charged.

Robert Mueller could not prove that there was a conspiracy between the President and the Russian government to do the things that Russian Intelligence did on his behalf.

[08:25:39]

HARWOOD: Nevertheless, he lied about those things and tried to cover them up. He has consistently defended Russia and he cannot do what his own Secretary of State is doing right now, which is calling out Russia for this massive intrusion into the United States government and United States businesses.

BERMAN: John Harwood not mincing words this morning, but sometimes you just have to call like you see it when things are this unusual going on behind you at the White House, you need to call it out.

Thanks so much for being with us this morning.

So new global travel restrictions this morning because of this new, fast spreading variant of coronavirus. We will tell you much more about what we know about it next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: All right, breaking news this morning. This new variant of coronavirus is spreading rapidly in the United Kingdom beyond control in some places. And overnight, a growing number of countries including Canada, Russia, and India banned travel from the United Kingdom.