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BioNTech CEO is Confident Vaccine will Work Against U.K. COVID Variant; Congress Passes $900 Billion Economic Relief Package; Anxiety Rising at Pentagon over What Trump will Do Next. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired December 22, 2020 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Of a negative coronavirus test before arriving in the United States.

[07:00:03]

But as of now, no travel ban from the U.K.

This morning, hospitals across the United States just overwhelmed. Look at that graph right there, a new record again with hospitalizations, more than 115,000 patients now hospitalized.

ERICA HILL, CNN NEW DAY: That is the reality of what's happening across the country.

What's happening in the White House? Well, there is a lot of concern about what's happening in the White House. This morning, new reporting about growing anxiety at the Pentagon over what President Trump will do in his remaining 29 days in office as he continues this push to overturn the election. Attorney Sidney Powell, who, of course, was dumped from Trump's legal team, after pushing conspiracy theories, spotted at the White House on Monday again. This was the third time, in four days

Also, happening Monday, a group of House conservatives meeting privately with the president and with Vice President Pence to strategize about their long-shot bid to overturn the results of the election.

BERMAN: We begin with the latest on the pandemic and the situation involving this new variant. Joining us now, Dr. Carlos del Rio, he is the Executive Associate Dean at Emory University School of Medicine at Grady Health System. Dr. del Rio, thanks so much for being with us, this morning.

What does the United States need to be doing this morning in regards to this new variant? What do the discussions need to be? How does the CDC need to begin preparing this country?

DR. CARLOS DEL RIO, PROFESSOR OF MEDICINE AT EMORY UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF MEDICINE: Well, I think what the country has been doing is having more surveillance, and having more, you know, surveillance in which you look at the virus and you look at the different characteristics of the virus. But at the end of the day, I think this is a good opportunity for the CDC to really, you know, take control and provide the guidance necessary, what needs to be done, whether there needs to be testing on entry or whether there needs to be, you know, restriction of flights. I think those are the decisions that we need to let the CDC take and follow the advice of CDC. This is a great opportunity for CDC to finally take control of this pandemic.

HILL: So, to that end, why haven't we heard more from the CDC, by this point?

DEL RIO: That's a good question. I wish there was an answer to that. And, again, I think we all need to be asking CDC to really provide us information, at this point in time, of what needs to be happen because, you know, it should not be coming from the White House. It shouldn't be coming from governors. We really need a national strategy and this is the opportunity to have that happen.

BERMAN: Some of the options that are out there have been decided on by states at this point. Governor Jay Inslee of Washington has called on a 14-day quarantine period for travelers coming in from the U.K. Governor Andrew Cuomo of New York has asked the airlines to require negative tests for people flying to the U.S. And now, the White House is considering requiring proof of a negative test for travelers coming from the U.K. Which of these options do you think would be most effective and is most appropriate?

DEL RIO: Well, it's hard to say what's going on. We need to know what's happening with this virus. But I think testing is not an unreasonable option and I think we need to use more testing to really facilitate travel. And the reality is many countries are doing this, and countries where they're having testing, you know, before flights, testing after flights, et cetera, are doing much better in controlling entry of infected passengers into their country.

So, I think we really need to scale up testing at airports, especially right now. We heard from TSA that over a million people, you know, crossed the TSA to go into planes in the last couple days. So, more people are traveling, not only internationally, but just within our country.

HILL: They certainly are. Let's turn to the vaccine for a minute here. I know you are contributing to the Moderna vaccine trial. You got your vaccine. We saw the picture there. While we're looking at this new variant, Moderna has said that based on the data, they expect that the vaccine-induced immunity would be protective against these variants.

We also heard, this morning, from the head of BioNTech. I just want to play what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UGUR SAHIN, CEO, BIONTECH: The topic of herd immunity, there are all this discussion about 60 to 70 percent. But -- but if the virus becomes more efficient in infecting people, we might need even a higher vaccination rate to ensure -- ensure that -- that normal life -- normal life can continue without interruption. (END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: The fact that he is saying we may need a higher vaccination rate, we know that vaccines for the majority of the public are still months away, does that complicate things at all, in your mind?

DEL RIO: Well, what it does is if this virus, indeed, becomes a predominant strain, not only in the U.K. but across the world, what we are learning from the U.K. is this virus is indeed probably more transmissible. So it increase the what we call the R naught, the reproduction number by 0.4. So if you got a higher R naught, the percent of people you need immunized to get herd immunity is higher and probably go up to -- instead of being 60 percent, probably closer to 70 percent.

[07:05:03]

So, you would have to immunize more people in order to get herd immunity. So, in that sense, it just becomes a higher number of people that need to be immunized.

BERMAN: I want to talk about where we are in the United States right now. We have seen cases actually going down in states like Michigan, Connecticut, other places. But, overall, hospitalizations hit a new record, overnight. More than 115,000 people hospitalized. And as long as this number keeps going up, there is every reason to believe that the number of deaths will increase as well, or at least won't go down.

So, Dr. del Rio, why are we seeing this and how much longer will it last?

DEL RIO: Well, we are seeing this because we let -- essentially, let the virus run out of control. You know, started in late summer, early fall, and then Thanksgiving really speed it up. And I think, at this point in time, what we are seeing is just uncontrolled spread of the virus in this country. We really have no strategy to control the virus in the country. We have no national mask mandate. We have no, you know, really directives what to do and everybody is just hoping for the vaccine to work. But the reality is the vaccine is many, many, months away from really making an impact.

I think, what we need, as President-elect Biden has said, if we can get all Americans to start wearing a mask and do so for the next, you know, three months, we can actually decrease transmission with this virus. The models suggest that you can decrease the number of dead people by 66,000 by April 1st, if you do that.

So, hospitals are overwhelmed, deaths are going up, we have to control the transmission of this virus. That has to be the number one priority in this pandemic right now.

HILL: And we all know what we can do to do that, right, those three simple things we talk about all the time. Dr. del Rio, I appreciate it. Thank you.

DEL RIO: Take care. HILL: Breaking overnight, Congress finally passing that $900 billion stimulus package. Suzanne Malveaux is live on Capitol Hill with more, including, Suzanne, the all-important question of what's actually in it.

SUZANNE MALVEAUX, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Absolutely, Erica. I mean, it was just before midnight that the Senate followed the House in passing that COVID relief bill. What actually got to the president's desk around just before 1:00 in the morning, however, was a five-day extension, short-gap, to fund the government another five days, until December 28th, while the paperwork's all being worked out. But we're being told the president will, in fact, sign the legislation.

It was a two-parter, $1.4 trillion for spending in the federal government until September of next year, then also the $900 billion COVID relief package. What is included? Well, very important for many Americans, $600 in direct payments if you make less than $75,000 a year, also children included, $300 a week, a boost in unemployment benefits, $284 billion for emergency small business loans, 80 billion for purchasing vaccines -- I'm sorry, 20 billion, 8 billion for distribution and a one-month extension in terms of whether or not folks would be evicted for not making those payments.

How long is this all going to take? Well, Secretary Mnuchin of the treasury says it's not going to be two days or it's not going to be two months, like the last go-around. This is going to happen very quickly. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVEN MNUCHIN, TREASURY SECRETARY (voice over): I expect we'll get the money out by the beginning of next week. $2,400 for a family of four, so much-needed relief just in time for the holidays.

This is now much more targeted. I expect it's needed, in -- in a short period of time. And I think this will take us through the recovery.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MALVEAUX: There are many people who disagree with Mnuchin on that point. The Democrats say that they will definitely be asking for more funds. They look at the state and the city governments, and they say this period of vaccination, it's just not going to cover as many people as necessary, to get those states and cities over the hump, that there would still be many first responders and EMT and police that might have to be laid off because the stimulus package is not big enough. Erica?

HILL: Suzanne Malveaux with the latest for us, thank you.

Well, just ahead, brand new reporting about growing anxiety at the Pentagon over what President Trump will do next. Officials planning for what they would do if ordered to do something illegal. Barbara Starr joins us, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:10:00]

BERMAN: All right. New this morning, growing anxiety at the Pentagon over what President Trump will do in his final days in office. Some military officers even trying to steer clear of the White House rather than risk being anywhere in that orbit.

Barbara Starr broke this story, she joins us now. Barbara, what are you hearing?

BARBARA STARR, CNN PENTAGON CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, John. I talked to somewhat a dozen officers or so, some in the Pentagon, some in other areas, and they all are expressing the same concern. The conversation is the same and it goes something like this. We don't know what he might do.

This is their commander in chief, and they are concerned. The concern is very clear, that the president might decide to use troops, the military, somehow, in his effort to overturn the election. The immediate question, of course, would be is how is any of this legal? But setting legality aside, why are they so concerned?

Well, you know, Mike Flynn, the fired national security adviser, former three-star army general, has now spoken publicly about using martial law, the prospect of it, and he has now met with the president. This is something that is getting quite noticed around military circles.

And I want to take your attention to a very particular tweet from a very significant, retired general. retired General Tony Thomas, headed Special Operations Command, all special operations for many years. He knows Flynn well. And this is what he tweeted, just a few days ago. Let me read it to everybody.

General Thomas says, Mike, stop. Just stop. You are a former soldier. You know that leveraging the military to rerun elections is a totally inappropriate role for the profession. You are also undercutting the extraordinary trust and confidence America has in their military, stop, telling General Flynn, don't talk about using the military to rerun elections.

[07:15:07]

That's the concern that the active duty has right now.

Now, the top, the most-senior U.S. military officer, General Mark Milley, chairman of the Joint Chiefs, hasn't spoken about this directly and specifically. But just a few weeks ago, he very pointedly talked about what the U.S. military does and does not do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

GEN. MARK MILLEY, CHAIRMAN, JOINT CHIEFS OF STAFF: We are unique among militaries. We do not take an oath to a king or a queen, a tyrant or a dictator. We do not take an oath to an individual. No, we do not take an oath to a country, a tribe or religion. We take an oath to the Constitution.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STARR: The Constitution. And in the latest development in all of this, undercurrent of anxiety, the four-star general who heads the army, the chief of staff, and the civilian head of the army, the secretary of the army, actually, of course, a Trump appointee, those two men, a couple of days ago, felt compelled to publicly say that the military has no role in election outcomes.

This is the conversation at the Pentagon, some 30 days to go. Erica?

HILL: Very striking. Barbara, thank you.

Joining us now, CNN Political Analyst David Gregory and Laura Barron- Lopez, National Political Reporter at Politico.

David, let's just start where Barbara left off. The fact that these discussions are being had, and, quote, we don't know what he might do, there are people who feel that way in a lot of different departments, a lot of different areas of the country. But that discussion happening at the Pentagon, the reaction, the public reaction that we've actually seen in the last several days, and even the last couple of weeks, David, that says something about how seriously they're taking this.

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I don't blame them for being anxious because the president is showing every indication that he doesn't care about the presidency. He doesn't care about the country right now. He just really cares about entertaining these stunts, and I think that's what they are, are stunts.

But the whole world is watching this, watching the end of the Trump presidency with a great deal of anxiety about where America is and how America is governed. So, we have to take this very seriously.

At the same time, while I think it's appropriate for our military officials to be anxious about a president, who is this unpredictable, I think there's always a big difference between what the president says, what the president allows to be leaked and what he is actually willing to do.

And the important point is there is no support for this with the military, there is no support for this with his own party. I just feel like there is a slower, a smaller group of people, who are taking some comfort in this than a larger group of people who are actually running the country.

BERMAN: Well, one thing that he is doing, in David's own words there, is holding meetings at the White House. In the most recent meeting, including members of the House of Representatives, who do plan to object to the counting of the Electoral College vote on January 6th.

Laura, one person at this meeting who had not been part of these things before was Mike Pence, the vice president of the United States. And the reason I bring this up, Jonathan Swan at Axios has new reporting which just crossed that says, quote, Pence's role on January 6th has begun to loom large in Trump's mind for people who have discussed the matter with him. Trump would view Pence performing his constitutional duty invalidating the election result as the ultimate betrayal.

What's his constitutional duty, you ask? I want to play you what the vice president does when the electoral vote is counted. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: George W. Bush of the state of Texas has received, for president of the United States, 271 votes. Al Gore, of the state of Tennessee, has received 266 votes.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Barack Obama of the state of Illinois has received, for president of the United States, 365 votes.

JOE BIDEN, U.S. PRESIDENT-ELECT: Donald Trump of New York has received, for president of the United States, 304 votes. Hillary Clinton, the state of New York, has received 227 votes.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, the law, Laura, says that Mike Pence has to do that same thing. Donald Trump doesn't want him to. I'm curious to see how Mike Pence will respond to this, if there's any way for him to dear-leader his constitutional duty here. What do you think?

LAURA BARRON-LOPEZ, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's hard to say, John, whether or not he will throw something in there to try to show that he is still a loyalist to the end. Pence has agency. He doesn't have to be in that meeting with President Trump and the House Republicans.

[07:20:01]

But, again, if he does have ambition about trying to run for the presidency, be it in 2024 or beyond, he very much wants the same Republican base that President Trump has.

And so that's why you see him engaging in, as David said, these stunts, going to these meetings with these House Republicans and appearing to listen out this effort that has no chance and no hope of succeeding. Even if they are able to get a few Senate Republicans to their side, these are just going to create spectacles on the floor but they aren't going to actually succeed in overturning the election.

HILL: But, David, part of the goal, I think, is that spectacle.

GREGORY: No doubt. No doubt. I mean, I think the spectacle is everything. The spectacle of these leaks, the spectacle of -- of making military officials worry, I think this is what the president thrives on. I think this is his -- whatever his future is in the public eye. And I think it's, frankly, the way he's approached a lot of his presidency, as well. Not serious attempts to, you know, become an authoritarian government but to throw things out there, to get people really agitated. And in this case, I think you're exactly right. Mike Pence has a choice to make. And this is not Barry Goldwater marching down Pennsylvania Avenue saying to Richard Nixon, you know, it's over. You have to resign. The president is on his way out. You'd like for Republicans to have the backbone to say, this isn't right what you are doing. We have to lead with honor to the end. What they're doing is figuring out how they can enable him to the end up to a point so that he doesn't exact revenge on them.

And Mike Pence, who I am pretty sure wants to be president, himself, has to be thinking about how do I get Trump's blessing and how I handle his final days, in his mind, will loom large.

BERMAN: I mean, Laura asked, David, or says that Mike Pence has agency. I guess I ask you, not even that facetiously, does Mike Pence have agency, at this point? I mean, what has he shown us over the last three years and 11 months that indicates that he does?

GREGORY: No, I think he's got agency. The question is at what price will he use it. I mean, at what price will he be anything of a stand- up person or will he find a way, in his own way, to strike that? I mean, I'm sure Mike Pence would love to hold on to a bit of this Trump political identity and reassert a kind of new conservatism in the ashes of Trump.

I don't know how that's done. I don't know how Mike Pence actually does that. And it's not altogether clear that there is a way to do it as long as Trump has enough agency himself to (INAUDIBLE) the race in 2024. And right now, he still looms large enough.

But let's bear in mind, I don't think most Trump supporters, particularly elected officials, think Trump is doing the right thing. They are just afraid to stand in the way of this locomotive here at the end.

HILL: What's fascinating is that that fear has been there for so long, Laura, right? And we keep saying, when are we going to hear something from someone? The fact that it's now December 22nd, and the election has been won multiple times at this point by Joe Biden, you know, based on everything we've seen, I mean, do we just have to wait until January 20th at this point? And even so, how much weight does that carry?

I mean, it's almost like what we saw from Bill Barr. At the 11th hour yesterday, Laura, we see from Bill Barr now stepping up and stepping away from the president a bit. But that's new, and he's got 24 hours left on the job.

BARRON-LOPEZ: Yes. I mean, if we were listening to President Trump all along throughout this past year heading into the election, then this looks like the logical culmination of, you know, his insane conspiracy theories and leading up to the election, trying to sow distrust about the system and even leading up to the election, saying that there was going to be massive fraud and casting doubt about mail balloting system. That still doesn't make it any less dangerous that more than a month after the election, the president is still engaging in this and that Republicans are entertaining him. And, as you said, at the very last hour, only is his attorney general speaking out and rebutting him on a number of fronts.

But it looks as though this is going to go until President-elect Biden is inaugurated. And what impact it has beyond that is that it impacts Republican voters. It impacts Trump supporters. And it tells them that this election wasn't legitimate and that's dangerous.

BERMAN: Laura Barron-Lopez, David Gregory, thanks so much for being with us. Mike Pence, the world is watching. What are you going to do? How are you going to handle this?

Congress has now finally passed an economic stimulus bill. Does it meet the needs of America's workers? We'll speak to a lawmaker who voted on it, next.

[07:25:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: Breaking overnight, Congress finally passed a $900 billion coronavirus relief package. It includes direct payments of up to $600 per adult and child, a $300 a week increase to unemployment benefits, $284 billion for small businesses, money for vaccines and an extension of the eviction moratorium.

Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Mikie Sherrill of New Jersey. She is a member of the Armed Service Committee, and served in the U.S. Navy as the Russian-policy officer. Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us.

This bill, this relief package, was, what, six months, five months, in the making. How satisfied are you with it this morning?

REP. MIKIE SHERRILL (D-NJ): Well, that's right, John. Thanks for having me.

The House passed the next generation of the CARES Act, the HEROES Act, back in May. So, we've been working on this piece of legislation since that time. You know, I think it was critical that we passed it. I'm happy that we did pass it. I would have liked to have seen it pass a little sooner so that, for example, people in my district didn't have to wait until December 22nd to know that they weren't going to have to be kicked out of their homes at the end of the month, right after Christmas.

[07:30:08]