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Right-Wing Media Walks Back Election Conspiracies; Jobless Claims Released; Holiday Travel Surges; Sen. Amy Klobuchar (D-MN) is Interviewed about the Stimulus Bill and Trump's Pardons. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired December 23, 2020 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

ERICA HILL, CNN ANCHOR: Fox News has engaged in a, quote, concerted disinformation campaign against Smartmatic. Telling its millions of viewers and readers it was founded by Hugo Chavez. It's software was designed to fix elections. And that it actually conspired with others to defraud the American people and fix the election.

You know, it's important to point out, too, the company said its software was only being used in L.A. County. Not in any of the swing counties or the swung states, rather, or counties that were in question. So -- but it seemed like it was facts be damned for a lot of these news outlets.

And now, Brian, we're seeing the attempt, I guess, at a retraction.

I just want to play that moment before we hear from you.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Newsmax has found no evidence that either Dominion or Smartmatic owns the other or has any business association with each other. We have no evidence that Dominion uses Smartmatic software or vice versa. No evidence has been offered that Dominion or Smartmatic used software or reprogrammed software that manipulated votes in the 2020 election.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

HILL: So they say now there's no evidence. But for weeks, Brian, the story has been the exact opposite in terms of what was being said. I won't say reported, what was being said on these networks.

BRIAN STELTER, CNN CHIEF MEDIA CORRESPONDENT: Yes. Right. Right.

HILL: I mean what's the impact of that? Legal stuff aside.

STELTER: Yes, this -- this reckless rhetoric is now coming back to haunt these right wing networks, Fox News, Newsmax, One America News. One America News is named in that new lawsuit by the Dominion employee, actually. OAN has not responded so far. Smartmatic, a different company, also threatening to sue. And that's

why both Fox News and Newsmax aired these wild seemingly, you know, things that sounded like corrections over the weekend, and yet these corrections only made sense if you had been watching the programming in November and early December when they were spreading reckless rhetoric about these voting machine companies.

This is a rare example of accountability in right wing media where there's actually a potential consequence. As Elie said, you know, there -- how easily -- a lot of freedom for media outlets to report and opine and speculate, but these court cases, if we do see more than one court case, these could be really important in terms of defining where the lines are and if any line exists for right wing media.

And, by the way, you know, these election denialism claims, you know, these networks will find other ways to claim the election is stolen. They'll come up with other ways to claim fraud. But in these specific cases, these companies could have solid, legal ground.

BERMAN: Elie, you know, there are corrections and there are retractions from news organizations, but I'm not quite sure I've ever seen anything like this. This was -- this was going on TV and saying, you know what, everything we've been saying or weeks and weeks and weeks, it's wrong. You know, pay no attention.

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, John, it's --

BERMAN: Does that have any legal merit?

HONIG: It's mighty charitable for them to call this a clarification. What they're clarifying is everything we've been telling you, hundreds of times, forget about it. This is a retraction and then some.

And I think I have a sense of what the defense is going to be here if these cases continue to be filed. I think what we're going to see is sort of what I would call the echo chamber defense. They're all going to point in a circle at one another. They're going to say, well, Newsmax, we heard it from Sidney Powell. Well, Sidney Powell, I saw it reported on OANN. Well, we heard it from Rudy. Well, you know, and on and on. And they're all going to just point at each other. It's a self-perpetuating echo chamber.

Now, will that hold up? I mean, look, when you weigh that against the actual evidence that's out there, I think it's an uphill climb. So it will be an interesting -- really a sort of ground-breaking type of series of case that we could see here that as Brian said are really aimed at some level, some minimal level of accountability in the media.

STELTER: And from a media point of view, this coverage was profoundly unethical. You know, for -- you know, to think about for weeks and weeks these networks were feeding viewers fantasies, fictions, not facts, trying to feed viewers what they wanted to hear, not what they needed to hear. It's profoundly irresponsible. And that's why it's going to be so interesting to see if this goes forward.

HILL: Brian Stelter, Elie Honig, great to see you both this morning. Thank you.

STELTER: Thanks.

HONIG: Thanks, Erica.

HILL: Troubling new unemployment numbers just in. We have those breaking details for you, next.

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[08:38:32]

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: Breaking news, 40 weeks in a row of staggering jobless numbers.

CNN business and politics correspondent Cristina Alesci joins us now with these new numbers just out.

What do they say?

CRISTINA ALESCI, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Well, slightly better than expected, John, but still continuing this troubling trend of a stalled recovery. And 803,000 people filed for first-time initial jobless claim benefits this week. Again, this really underscores the need for immediate relief to the American people without delay.

Take a look at this chart. It is a troubling trend. And on -- this is the initial claims number. You'll see that it's really -- the recovery is really stalled out here.

The next chart shows continuing claims. These are the people who have continued to stay on unemployment for more than one week. That number, 5.3 million, John. And when you count all of the people on traditional unemployment and the special pandemic program, you're talking about 20.3 million people. Going forward, all economists, all of my sources looking to the January jobs report, which is going to be grim and the real worry is that we'll actually start losing jobs in that monthly report.

Now, the bottom line here is that America is very sick and until people stop traveling and gathering in large numbers indoor -- indoors, we cannot have a healthy economy with 200,000 plus new cases a day.

[08:40:05]

And also this package, this relief package we've been talking -- that you've been talking about all morning is welcome news to the American people but more needs to be done. The benefits for unemployed workers in this package are half of what they were in the first relief package in the spring. So undoubtedly the Biden administration is going to put a huge priority on getting money out to people right now. You'll see on your screen there direct payments of $600 is on the table and the people with direct deposit, who have their information with the IRS on file will get that money first, followed by paper checks and those prepaid debit cards, Erica.

HILL: Cristina Alesci with the latest for us.

Cristina, thank you.

ALESCI: Of course.

HILL: Christmas now two days away and airlines are seeing a surge of passengers. This, of course, despite warnings from public health officials to stay home.

CNN's Pete Muntean is live this morning at Reagan National Airport, just outside Washington.

Pete, good morning.

PETER MUNTEAN, CNN AVIATION CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, Erica.

You know it's possible we could see another big bump in travel numbers today and health experts are worried that could lead to another big surge of the virus. The TSA says more than a million people passed through security at America's airports on Friday, on Saturday and then again on Sunday. Nearly a million on Monday. And we're still waiting on numbers for Tuesday.

But it's that three-day million passenger streak that's so interesting. Something we have not seen before during the pandemic, not even around the Thanksgiving holiday. It was during that holiday that led to another big surge of the virus and Dr. Anthony Fauci tells our Wolf Blitzer that this kind of travel is concerning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: This type of travel is risky, particularly if people start congregating when they get to their destination in larger crowds, in indoor settings. I'm afraid that if, in fact, we see this happen, we will have a surge that's superimposed upon the difficult situation we are already in. So it could be a very difficult January coming up if these things happen.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN: Now, remember, a lot of these numbers are people leaving for the holiday, but there's a concern that they could come back all at once. November 29th is still what holds the pandemic air travel record. That's the Sunday after Thanksgiving when more than 1.1 million people flew.

Erica.

HILL: Pete Muntean with the latest for us from Reagan National.

Pete, thank you. Well, help for struggling American workers is now in doubt. That's because President Trump doesn't like the deal. Reaction from a Senate Democrat, next.

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[08:46:13]

BERMAN: All right, breaking news, the $900 billion stimulus bill just passed by Congress, both houses of Congress, the fate is now in doubt after President Trump seemed to suggest overnight in this video that perhaps he would veto it.

Joining us now is Democratic Senator Amy Klobuchar from Minnesota.

Senator, thank you so much for being with us this morning.

That video, I think, surprised all of us last night. Surprised White House staff, frankly. So what's your reaction to the notion that the president might not be on board here?

SEN. AMY KLOBUCHAR (D-MN): As you just reported, John, we have millions of people who are out of work and this bill would help them immediately. It is help with getting the vaccine all over America, including in small, rural towns in my state, billions of dollars to help with that, the second biggest stimulus package we've ever passed out of Congress.

What's outrageous to me is I want to see more direct payments, and I'm glad the speaker of the House is bringing this up tomorrow, but President Trump had his own people in the room where it happens, or on the Zoom where it happens, or on the telephone. They were negotiated. Secretary Mnuchin.

And so then suddenly he says, no, I don't like this, I don't like that. Well, what we need to do is he needs to sign this bill and then of course we can do additional payment. But it was his own party that was blocking them. Where was he? Where was he hiding out? And the point of this is, through all the bickering and all the gridlock, the Democratic Party stands behind getting help to people, and we have to get this done.

BERMAN: You said last night right after that it's a slap in the face to all Americans or working people. Your quibble isn't with the $2,000 that he's now calling for after the fact.

KLOBUCHAR: Not at all. No, I'm fine (ph) with that.

BERMAN: Would you support extra money going to people?

KLOBUCHAR: I would love to see extra money going to people and so would a lot of people on the Democratic side. But the point is, we can do that. But what this president is talking about as he sat in the room through his representatives while he hid out in the White House, he is talking about vetoing this entire bill when, in fact, unemployment lapses for so many people the day after Christmas, rent is due and this bill contains significant help for people with their rent.

Moms are trying to balance their toddlers on their knees and their laptops on their desk. First graders are having to learn the mute button. America needs help now.

His own head of the Federal Reserve said the economy cannot bounce back and that it would be tragic if we didn't do something by the end of the year. And that's exactly what this bipartisan negotiation was about. But this president wants to get attention at the end of the year, pardoning people left and right, showing the corruption that we've seen from the beginning of this administration in what he did last night with all those pardons for people who were committing white collar crimes and money laundering and ripping people off. That's what's going on right now in the White House. I think it's a travesty and I think the American people and the people of Georgia, as this Senate race comes up, are going to see right through it.

BERMAN: The pardons that you just mentioned included confessed liars in the Russia probe, George Papadopoulos, corrupt politicians Chris Collins, Duncan Hunger, members of Congress who had been convicted, pleaded guilty, by the way, and also murderers, convicted murders, Blackwater contractors, convicted of killing Iraqis in a massacre there.

What do you see as the through line with these pardons?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, 88 percent of them, a study was done of his pardons are somehow related to Donald Trump's interests or to his own political interests. So when you look at them, even though they all seem different, as you point out, about murderers, about money laundering, about a congressman using campaign funds to send his pet rabbit on a trip -- true fact -- when you look through all of them, what ties them together is corruption.

[08:50:08]

It is corruption. And so when you think of the pardon power, that is supposed to be about forgiveness and mercy. It's like when President Obama pardoned Josephine, a woman I've gotten to know, who basically was given a life sentence when she didn't sell drugs or use drugs because she was in the middle. And President Obama pardoned that woman and she now says her goal in life is to be the best grandma ever and make up for lost time. An African-American woman. That's what we're talking about with pardons.

But, instead, what does he do? He uses this to help out his buddies. And, by the way, he's literally burning down the house of justice as he walks out the door. All the work of law enforcement, of FBI, of prosecutors, line career people who worked on these cases their whole -- so hard to take on white collar criminals. He basically is telling them, no, demeaning their work, and that's why we need a new president and we're going to get it very soon in Joe Biden.

BERMAN: January 6th is the date that a joint session of Congress will count the electoral votes. The Electoral College voted. Joe Biden won again. One of the many times that Joe Biden has been able to declare victory since November 3rd in this election. But now we know the president's been meeting with members of the House, Vice President Pence was there also, they say they're going to raise objections to the electoral count.

What do you expect will happen on January 6th and what do you anticipate seeing from your Republican colleagues in the Senate?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, I'm going to be up on the stage and working on this because I'm the ranking -- highest ranking Democrat on the Rules Committee. So basically Senator Blunt and I in the Senate are in charge of this. So we will actually be reporting on what each state says, then you're going to see where this occurs in the House of Representatives. If House members object, which they seem to object to each state, then if they are joined by a senator, and there's all kinds of rumors about the new senator from Alabama, Tommy Tuberville, if he joins them, then what you see is two hours of debate in each house, then a vote, then you come back again. And we could literally go through the roll call of states and it could take over a day to get this done.

Do I think that's going to happen, John, no, but it's my job to make sure that we get through and make very clear that Joe Biden won this election. Our Republican colleagues in the Senate, including Mitch McConnell, have now said that that's the truth. I don't foresee this as stalling out in the end whatever plots they make that day and it's embarrassing that they're doing this, last ditch effort, but we will stand tall for democracy. And I have every reason to believe we'll come through.

But I literally cannot believe they are not allowing for the peaceful transition of power and instead calling -- trying these frivolous lawsuits, which are getting shot down by Republican appointed, Trump appointed judges all over this country.

BERMAN: All right, lightning round. I want to cover a lot of ground in a very short period of time.

KLOBUCHAR: I thought we just did it. OK.

BERMAN: That -- yes, that wasn't the lightning, that was the molasses round. No, that was great.

I -- listen, I want to ask you, Merrick Garland, Doug Jones, President-elect Joe Biden's leading choices for attorney general. Who do you like?

KLOBUCHAR: Oh, no, not going there because they're both such incredible leaders. I love both of them. And I just know that Joe Biden will make the right choice. And they both have incredible virtues and will serve our government in whatever role they have.

BERMAN: All right. As part of this stimulus bill, you've been a big supporter of money going to local theaters, performance centers. Why is that so important to you?

KLOBUCHAR: They were the first to close. They're going to be the last to open. And we cannot let the music die in America. And these are places like small country music venues in Texas. They are places like the Blue Stem Amphitheater that you probably never heard of in Morehead, Minnesota. And what we're done here, Senator Cornyn and I, the Republican from Texas, built a coalition working with these incredible people like Dana Frank of First Avenue in Minneapolis and we were able to hold this coalition together to help our small theaters, our small venues, because you can't go stand in a mosh pit in the middle of a pandemic. And that is exactly why we did this bill. And you can't stand arm to arm with your neighbors in a theater.

So, small venues, so important. Where Prince got his start. Where so many musicians got their start. We banded together and get this done from country music to hip hop. So we're pretty excited about this part of the bill.

BERMAN: We want them to be there when this pandemic is over.

Listen, I was reflecting -- I was just thinking about this as I was coming in today. What a year you've had. I mean, what a year you personally for 2020. I mean a year ago at this time you were trotting through Iowa and New Hampshire. You had the primaries and the pandemic hit. Your husband got sick with coronavirus. You're a senator from Minnesota.

[08:55:01]

Obviously, the killing of George Floyd happened in your state. And then you went through what we all went through with the election, the pandemic and everything else. So, you know, as you look back now, it's December 23rd here, you know, how are you going to remember this year?

KLOBUCHAR: Well, the first thing, like all of us, I'm just, thank God, that my husband made it through this, and my dad made it through it at age 92. He got coronavirus. And then I think of the other families that didn't, that are going to have that empty chair during the Christmas holidays. People who are working on the front line every single day. So I am just grateful for Americans, for pulling through this. I am grateful for ordinary people that are doing extraordinary things every day. And I think they need a government and a president that has their back.

So like everyone else, I feel great relief. I know friends of mine that aren't in politics, that have nothing to do with government tell me they're just looking forward to a time where they don't have to lay in bed at midnight trying to figure out how to run the country because they're like, OK, if Trump doesn't do this, can we do that. I think we're going to have competency back and, for me, as being a senator, a U.S. senator, that's important.

But, mostly, what I'm going to do is count my blessings and -- that's what people of America that stood tall through one of the most difficult years in the country's history.

BERMAN: We're glad your husband and your father are doing well.

Senator Klobuchar, thank you for being with us. Merry Christmas to you up in the North Pole in Minneapolis.

KLOBUCHAR: Thank you. OK. Thanks, John.

BERMAN: We appreciate you being with us.

KLOBUCHAR: It's not that cold. We welcome you up here anytime.

Thank you.

BERMAN: Thanks so much, Senator. Appreciate it.

All right, we were just talking about it. What is going to happen with this $900 billion relief plan that so many Americans are depending on? We're trying to figure it out. We'll give you the very latest information, next.

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