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Trump Leaves D.C. without Signing or Vetoing COVID Relief Bill; House Set to Vote on Expanding Relief Checks to $2,000 Monday; Republicans Grapple with Trump's Threats to Block Relief Deal. Aired 11-11:30a ET

Aired December 24, 2020 - 11:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[11:00:30]

KATE BOLDUAN, CNN ANCHOR: Hello, everyone, I'm Kate Bolduan. Welcome to a special edition of CNN NEWSROOM. Thank you so much for joining us.

Christmas Eve traditionally a quiet, peaceful day or that is at least what everyone hopes for. But this is, of course, 2020 and the final days of Donald Trump's presidency. So instead you have a president focused on helping his friends, licking his wounds and leaving chaos in his wake.

Overnight, President Trump issued over two dozen new pardons for yet another group of his loyalists, including his long-time ally, Roger Stone, former campaign chairman Paul Manafort, and Jared Kushner's dad, Charles Kushner.

He also vetoed a massive defense bill, backed overwhelmingly by his own party. Leaving in limbo things like pay raises for the military. And in doing so, the president is ignoring the millions of Americans who are hurting and are going to be left in the lurch if, to add to this, the COVID relief bill isn't signed into law.

It's estimated that nearly 5 million people could be pushed into poverty virtually overnight if benefits are allowed to expire the day after Christmas. And then there's the government shutdown that threatens the livelihoods of millions more, which is now a very real threat. The president is also ignoring the pandemic that is only getting worse at the very worst time of the year.

Let's start with the mess that President Trump continues to create, starting on Capitol Hill. Democrats announcing this morning that they're scheduling a vote next week to call the president's bluff on wanting to expand COVID relief payments beyond what Congress just approved. They tried to quickly pass the bill by unanimous consent, meaning that it would pass if no one objected but Republicans did object. So now a full floor House vote will be happening.

CNN's Phil Mattingly joins me now with all of the details. Phil, Democrats are scheduling this vote, House Republicans are holding private calls to air their grievances. Does anyone know actually what is going to happen here?

PHIL MATTINGLY, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So, Kate, I'm going to quote Senator Roy Blunt, who is a member of Senate Republican leadership. He's an appropriator. He was very, very involved in the creation of the COVID relief piece of this as well as the appropriations piece.

"I don't know what he is going to do."

That is from a senior member on the Republican side of the Senate who is very close to Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell. And it kind of encompasses where everybody sits right now in terms of the future. The future of the COVID relief package, the future of whether or not there's going to be a government shutdown.

Everyone is waiting for some signal from the president. Obviously, you saw what Democrats tried to do this morning, it was blocked. You've noted, the Democrats will try again on Monday with the full House floor vote. And the reaction from Democrats after their efforts were blocked this morning.

Well, take a listen to Majority Leader Steny Hoyer.

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REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): This is Christmas Eve. Surely the president of the United States, whether he's in Mar-a-Lago or any place else, ought to empathize with the pain and suffering and apprehension and deep angst that the American people are feeling this Christmas Eve and sign this bill. As we saw today, Republican Congress and the White House can't agree on what they want.

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MATTINGLY: And Kate, I want to go back to Senator Roy Blunt here because what he said and props to my colleague Kristin Wilson who is up on the Hill today talking to him for the Senate proforma session. So, perfectly incapsulated what I've been hearing behind the scenes from the Republicans over the course of the last 36 hours. And again, saying he had no idea what the president was going to do here. Making it very clear that Republicans had been told the president was going to sign this bill. Having no real idea who's actually talking or influencing - talking to or influencing the president right now.

But also, the actual paths forward here and Roy Blunt saying, quote, "the best way out of this is for the president to sign the bill." When he was asked what the alternative to that was, he goes, let's hope the best way works. That's where things are right now. It's a hope and pray moment as one aide told me earlier today. There's no clear pathway at the moment.

BOLDUAN: So, while that is happening, what does this all mean for Americans who are waiting for this aid? Waiting for these checks? The military waiting for the NDAA to get approved. What happens next?

MATTINGLY: Everything is in limbo. And it's really - it's at the whim of one individual. And I think that's kind of the wild part. And I think when you talk to both Republicans and Democrats on Capitol Hill, the unsettling part is, everything is at the whim of a president who is well-known to be angry, who is currently feuding with the top Republican in the United States Senate. He's feuding with kind of the party in general.

[11:05:01]

What does this mean for the party? How does the party split over the course of the next week or two, and as all of this is happening, underneath all of it is people that desperately need aid, whether it's the direct payments, whether it's the unemployment insurance program, whether it's food assistance as well, everyone is waiting, watching, wondering, and the president is the only one with the answer.

BOLDUAN: Yes. Good to see you, Phil. Thank you.

So, what is the president doing right now? We know that he flew to Florida yesterday. But other than that, there's nothing on his schedule. A trend the White House seems to be growing sensitive to as they added this note to the daily presidential scheduling memo.

This, "As the holiday season approaches, President Trump will continue to work tirelessly for the American people. His schedule includes many meetings and calls."

CNN's White House reporter Sarah Westwood, she's joining us now with more details. Sarah, one thing we know is that the president is doing is he is not giving up on his futile push to overturn the election.

SARAH WESTWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yes. That's right, Kate. We are witnessing some truly erratic behavior from President Trump during his final days in office here, particularly on this election related issues but also extending to his attacks on fellow Republicans and that last minute push to undermine the stimulus deal his own White House negotiated.

Last night as the president was arriving in Florida, he publicly called for a special counsel to investigate his baseless claims of voter fraud. And the timing of that was notable because it came during the last day that Attorney General Bill Barr had in office. And Barr has said on multiple occasions that he sees no evidence of the kind of widespread fraud that Trump has alleged and no need to appoint a special counsel for that.

But as Trump has grasped at ways to overturn the election results, some of his ire has also turned to his closest ally, Vice President Mike Pence. Sources tell CNN that privately, Trump has complained that Pence hasn't done enough to overturn the outcome of the election. And last night, he also retweeted a call for Pence to refuse to ratify the Electoral College results when he presides over a joint session of Congress on January 6th where those results will be certified.

Trump's efforts to cling to the spotlight here go beyond these election-related conspiracies that he has and extends to the series of controversial pardons that he's issuing at the last minute for high- profile loyalists including Paul Manafort, including Roger Stone. Also, to this last-minute effort to up end the stimulus which some Republicans have questioned whether that's an effort to exact revenge on some of the Senate Republicans like Mitch McConnell who have embraced the reality of a Biden presidency.

And even this Mar-a-Lago trip where the president is now golfing, was up in the air until the last-minute, Kate, aides questioned whether he was even going to leave for it until the moment that he did. So, a lot of unpredictable behavior from Trump during the last days of his presidency here.

BOLDUAN: Sarah, thank you.

Joining me right now for more on this is Elie Honig, CNN analyst and former federal prosecutor. But he does have time to golf. That is one thing we do know, Elie. Let me ask you about these pardons that happened overnight. I've been actually wanting to get your take on it. What do you think of these pardons?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Yes, Kate. We are seemingly by the day reaching new lows of corruption and abuse of power. And when I say new lows, I don't just mean as relating to Donald J. Trump, I mean over American history. If you look at Richard Nixon, our colleague at CNN, Tim Naftali, he's a historian, a Nixon scholar, wrote really interesting piece about how Richard Nixon seriously considered and wanted to issue pardons to his political aides, his advisers who have been caught up in the Watergate scandal but even Richard Nixon decided no.

That's too dangerous to our Democracy. That's too bad for me politically to my legacy. So, even Richard Nixon said I'm not going there. Donald Trump is going there and then some. He has openly, freely pardoning basically, well almost everybody involved in the Robert Mueller investigation with a key caveat, only those who stayed silent, only those who refused to cooperate. Rick Gates, Michael Cohen they testified, they're essentially the only ones who have not received a pardon. So, Donald Trump is going beyond what Richard Nixon was willing to do.

BOLDUAN: Elie, I saw that you write that these pardons actually increase Trump's exposure to charges once he does leave office. What do you mean?

HONIG: Here's my thinking. Look, Donald Trump is -- Robert Mueller told us in his report, one of the things that Donald Trump did that could be obstruction of justice is he dangled pardons, right? Remember, he was tweeting, he was making public statements about Michael Flynn and maybe I'll pardon him, maybe I'll pardon Roger Stone. Well, as a result of that, those people declined to cooperate or stopped cooperating potentially.

Now, we've gone beyond just the dangling of those pardons. And now he has delivered them. And again, look at the results, all the people he's pardoned either refused to cooperate or really damning, I believe, are the people who started cooperating, Michael Flynn and Paul Manafort, and then they stopped. And if you do that as a defendant in a criminal case, that is the most self-destructive thing you can do. That is the best way to land yourself in prison for a long term, unless, unless you expect to be saved on the back end and that could be what we're seeing here.

[11:10:12]

BOLDUAN: A question about timing of all of this. Bill Barr, he left the job officially yesterday. Last night, Trump drops these pardons, this wave of pardons with these high-profile names, Roger Stone, Paul Manafort and the like. Is that a coincidence?

HONIG: It's hard to say. I bet you Bill Barr is breathing a sigh of relief that he's not around to have to deal with this. I do want to say this. DOJ normally should have a part in the pardon process. There's an office in DOJ called the Office of the Pardon Attorney that Donald Trump has essentially ignored throughout this process.

And that's important because pardons can be used for justice and for mercy. That is what the Office of the Pardon Attorney is for. And one of the things that's so offensive about these pardons is there are countless people in federal prison serving decades for non-violent drug offenses.

Barack Obama used his commutation power largely on those cases. And then we get a pardon let say, for example, to Charles Kushner, committed vile crimes. I won't repeat sort of the specifics of what we did hear. And if you look at the White House press release describing why each pardon was given, you know what it says for Charles Kushner? Because he donated a lot to charity. I mean, who do they think they are fooling? It should just say, he is Jared's dad. That is really repulsive self-dealing.

BOLDUAN: One more question on Bill Barr, because after Barr -- on Barr's last day, Trump sends out this tweet, right, that he wants a special counsel. He wants to immediately -- he doesn't know why it can't be fast a special counsel to investigate voter fraud. And I was struck because Bill Barr was asked about this on Monday in his final press conference and here's what he said.

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BILL BARR, FORMER ATTORNEY GENERAL: If I thought a special counsel at this stage was the right tool and was appropriate, I -- I would do -- I would name one but I haven't and I'm not going to.

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BOLDUAN: What do you think this means for the new guy coming in? The new acting attorney general, Jeffrey Rosen.

HONIG: It's going to be a difficult decision. Look, Bill Barr was right in the sense that you can't appoint a special counsel where there's just not a centile of fact. Now, I wish Bill Barr hadn't spent the months leading up to the election, echoing the false claims about massive voter fraud but this week, in the very, very end stage, he did the right thing.

Jeffrey Rosen is going to be in office for a few weeks, perhaps a few months. And he's going to be under real pressure from Donald Trump. The law says only the attorney general, not the president, only the AG can appoint a special counsel. So, we'll see if Jeffrey Rosen has integrity and a backbone. It's going to be up to him.

BOLDUAN: And something to watch. Elie, thank you.

HONIG: Thanks, Kate.

BOLDUAN: Coming up for us, the U.S. has now vaccinated 1 million people against the coronavirus.

But up next, we're going to talk to a doctor and journalist who has concerns about the rollout so far, calling it a nightmare.

And later, as Washington is gridlocked over COVID relief, these are the scenes across the country, lines, long lines as more and more Americans are forced to turn to food banks for help.

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[11:17:30]

BOLDUAN: The United States has reached a milestone with coronavirus vaccines. More than 1 million people have now gotten their first shot. And there have been more than 9 million doses distributed to states so far with more on the way. Those numbers fall far short though so far of the goal set by Operation Warp Speed to vaccinate 20 million Americans by the end of December. Still the head of the NIH is impressed by the pace so far.

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DR. FRANCIS COLLINS, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTES OF HEALTH: I think the distribution effort done through Warp Speed and then working through the states, it's pretty amazing. If we don't quite get that 20 million people being vaccinated this month, I hope people will understand. This is a logistic challenge of enormous proportion.

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BOLDUAN: Let's get some perspective on this. Joining me right now is Dr. Elisabeth Rosenthal. She is editor-in-chief of the Kaiser Health Network and author of "An American Sickness." She also has a new op-ed in "The New York Times" which is entitled "Some said the Vaccine Rollout Would Be a 'Nightmare.' They Were Right."

Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. So, you heard Francis Collins there. He thinks the vaccine distribution effort so far has been amazing. What do you see?

DR. ELISABETH ROSENTHAL, EDITOR-IN-CHIEF, KAISER HEALTH NETWORK: Well, I see lots of problems. And I see problems with the way we're doing it. You know we're trusting the trickle-down method where the federal government sends it to the state who sends it to counties then sends it to hospitals, nursing homes, and they're making their allocation decisions depending on all sorts of algorithms. So, instead of treating this as a team sport, which many countries are doing, we're -- it's really a mess in the sense of it's unfair, it's unequitable.

I mean, At Kaiser Health News, we're hearing from you know a doctor in Maine who, because she is not on staff at a hospital, is not getting -- has no idea when she's going to get it because she's not in the loop. We we're hearing from a wealthy nursing home where all the residents have been inoculated and one that's not so quite wealthy 10 miles away where they have no idea when they get the vaccine.

We're hearing most disturbingly to me, where there are hospitals where people in the coms department are getting it but the residents who are at the bedside treating COVID patients have not gotten the shot. So, it's really being done in this scenario hyper local level and that's a terrible way to allocate this precious resource.

[11:20:02]

BOLDUAN: You also pose -- I thought it was very interesting and important question -- how will essential workers who are then next in line, transit workers, teachers, grocery store employees and more, how will they know when it is their turn? Were you able to figure it out?

ROSENTHAL: There is no way to know when it's your turn and that's the problem. I think you know the CDC has issued its recommendations, but, you know, states and counties and hospitals and cities are not necessarily following them. So, it will be different in each place and you know how will you know? How will I know? I think that's a huge open question.

Now, you contrast that with other countries where there's central prioritization and people have already got little cards saying we will tell you when it's your turn. And in some places, like Israel, for example where they're prioritizing people over 65, they didn't even get a date and a time in early next year for an appointment to get their vaccination.

So, it's just, you know, vaccinating an entire country should be a team sport where we all agree on things. And instead, it's, of course -- it's very local, there's potential for favoritism, for politics, for who you know to get in the way here. And it's very disturbing. It's disturbing to me to see unions and teachers and transit workers kind of jockeying and lobbying to see who should get it first. We need a central plan and we need to execute it.

BOLDUAN: Let me play for you what Dr. Craig Spencer actually said is his fear. He told me this on the show. What his fear is going forward about this.

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DR. CRAIG SPENCER, DIRECTOR, GLOBAL HEALTH IN ER MEDICINE, COLUMBIA UNIVERSITY MEDICAL CENTER: Really this first step is going to be the easiest step in some respects. It's being sent to hospitals who have a distribution system in place. We know who exactly is getting it. We're not having as much of kind of the fighting of who's going to get it next. We know frontline workers should be prioritized.

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BOLDUAN: That made a lot of sense what he was saying in how this could really become a problem going forward. But I'm wondering when you hear Francis Collins say it's pretty gone amazing, what is he missing?

ROSENTHAL: Well, he's missing the distribution problem we're seeing and how someone like me, you know a journalist and Kaiser Health News reporters all over the country, we're hearing from the places where sure they've gotten some vaccines but remember a lot of places only got 40 percent of what they were told they were going to get. And then they're each deciding according to their own methods where they're going to use them.

So, I think that's what he's missing. This is not a way to run a distribution effort. It is amazing. Maybe a footrace was a great way to get us the vaccine, all these companies competing to be first. It's not a good way to distribute the vaccine.

BOLDUAN: A lot to think about here, especially in the coming days. Thank you so much for coming on, Elisabeth Rosenthal.

ROSENTHAL: Thanks for having me.

BOLDUAN: Coming up next for us, thousands going hungry. The country is in the midst of a food crisis and how one Cleveland food bank is now trying to handle the crush of overwhelming holiday need.

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[11:28:04]

BOLDUAN: Washington is once again at a standstill over the coronavirus relief package. That's not only a sign of dysfunction of Congress right now but also a signal to millions of Americans that help is not on the way. But we do know that the need is so great. Perhaps the most striking sign of how many Americans are hurting and how desperately this help is needed are the lines of hundreds of hundreds of cars lined up at food banks across the country.

What you're looking at right there in your screen are scenes from Los Angeles, Fort Worth, Miami and San Antonio. Just look at the people. Look at those cars. Just last weekend, CNN was in Boynton Beach, Florida just a few minutes from President Trump's private Mar-a-Lago club. People there started lining up for food before dawn.

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DEBORAH HIGHTOWER, FOOD RECIPIENT: For people who have been here since 4:30 a.m. in the morning have got to be desperate to come sit for almost five hours to get a box of food for their family. I would hate for me to get the last of something and the person behind me be in a worse position than I am. (END VIDEO CLIP)

BOLDUAN: What a big heart on that woman.

Joining me right now is Karen Pozna. She's with the Greater Cleveland Food Bank in Ohio. Another woman with a very big heart. Karen, thank you for coming in.

KAREN POZNA, DIRECTOR OF COMMUNICATIONS AND EVENTS, GREATER CLEVELAND FOOD BANK IN OHIO: Thank you.

BOLDUAN: There were thousands of people waiting in line at your food bank yesterday. What are the stories that you're hearing from folks right now?

POZNA: You know what, it's a similar situation that we're seeing across the country. We had, you know, lines that were over a mile long yesterday. And, you know, hours before our distribution started, they just want to make sure that they get in line and they get that food that they need so desperately.

You know, people once they do receive the food and you see them driving through and starting to drive away, you can just see the relief on their face, and that just means so much to all of us who work there and all of our volunteers.