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New Day

New Record for Hospitalizations; Slow Rollout of Vaccination; Trump Peddles Lies and Conspiracy Theories; High-Stake Runoff Races in Georgia. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 05, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:31:18]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: More people in the hospital with coronavirus this morning than ever before in the United States. The situation getting desperate in California, especially Los Angeles County. Ambulance crews there are being told to cut back on using oxygen. They're being told to cut back on using oxygen and not to transport patients to the hospital who have virtually no chance of survival.

Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

We should note, Sanjay has written a new book out today called "Keep Sharp: Build a Better Brain at Any Age." We are going to have extensive time to talk about the book later in the week.

Sanjay, I want to talk about this just grim news out of California and Los Angeles County.

Frankly, the hospitalization numbers around the country painting a bleak picture, but the fact that they're rationing oxygen tells you where things are.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I mean, this is the, you know, the worst-case scenario that we're always reluctant to talk about, even at the end of last year, because, you know, you don't want to, you know, create these situations where you're just foreboding the worst. But we -- we are in that situation and, as you know, things are continuing to get worse.

And I hate to say it, but it's true. The hospital where I work, we are now in the worst position that we've been in throughout this entire pandemic. I guess that comes as no surprise as you look around the country.

But there's not a lot of places now where you can send patients. You know, these EMTs who are sort of being forced to make these decisions when they're going to people's homes, they get the call, someone's having trouble breathing and they have to make the call, you know, is this person likely to survive or not, I mean it's heartbreaking. It's -- first of all, it's really hard to do, I mean, because making that assessment in the field versus actually being able to get someone to a hospital with all the resources of the hospital are two very different situations. But when we are so -- when there's such a surge on the system, like we're seeing right now, that's the sort of -- these are the sorts of calls that are currently being made.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Sanjay, also, vaccinations. I'm so disheartened by what we've learned. So 15 million doses have been distributed now, 4.5 million people have been vaccinated in this country. As you know, the Trump administration, all of the top health officials project that 20 million Americans plus would be vaccinated by today, but that's not happening. And so all of those predictions, Sanjay, from Dr. Fauci, maybe you, I can't remember exactly what you said, but in terms of when life might look a little bit normal again, it's not going to happen this spring, obviously. It's not going to happen maybe even this summer if it's going at this slow pace.

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, this -- it is discouraging how slow this has gone so far. You know, I try and be very honest and realistic. I am still optimistic that the numbers will increase in terms of overall vaccine distribution. It's a very unfortunate, slow start. But I do think there will be improvements as states and counties figure this out, but that's been the problem, Alisyn, as you pointed out in the interview with Moncef Slaoui yesterday, the states and counties have had to figure this out on their own. They asked for a lot more money. First of all, the Association of States and Territories asked for close to $8.5 billion. They got close to $480 million. So a huge disparity there. The right amount is probably somewhere in between. But the point is, there just wasn't the infrastructure and there wasn't the urgency around this.

This is a storm. If you thought of this as a -- as an emergency, like a hurricane or something, you'd have FEMA, you'd have the National Guard and you'd basically say, we're just going to get this done because it's the feds coming in and saying, here's how we are going to vaccinate.

I think the point Moncef Slaoui has made is, look, we wanted to give the states enough authority to sort of figure this out on their own, but there is no plan.

[08:35:03]

They have nothing to base a distribution plan on because they've never done something quite like this before with these types of vaccines at this scale.

So is this an emergency or not? It is. We're not treating it like one. We should. That's the problem.

BERMAN: So, Sanjay, to be clear here, the issue is not vaccine supply, there right now is more vaccine being produced and shipped than is being administered.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: Four million doses have been put in people's arms. There's more vaccine just sitting there waiting to be put in people's arms. That's the problem.

Now, there is also a discussion about how maybe to stretch the vaccine supply even further. There are people who have suggested just taking one dose perhaps of the Pfizer vaccine or the Moderna vaccine, which is -- both of which are two-dose vaccines, or with Moderna, splitting one dose into half, giving you 50 percent of the actual dose of the vaccine.

The FDA came out overnight and said, for now we don't think this is a good idea. We think everyone needs to get both doses of both vaccines. But it is an interesting, scientific discussion, yes?

GUPTA: It is a scientific discussion that is happening and it's causing some rifts for sure. You're right, John, the FDA was clear about this in their message last night. We -- what they said is we authorized a vaccine based on this dose and two doses of it for Moderna and Pfizer. We're not going to back away from that. That's what the scientific evidence leads us to.

In the U.K., as you may know, they've -- they've now suggested that they could space out the vaccines even further, closer to 12 weeks apart as opposed to three or four weeks apart. Moncef Slaoui, again, chief scientific adviser for Operation Warp Speed, has raised the idea of even splitting the dose of the Moderna vaccine into half so you'd sort of double the amount of vaccine available, at least of that. Again, the FDA is saying that's not a bad idea. The scientific evidence isn't there.

And to your point earlier, the real problem here isn't, at this point, the availability of the vaccine. It's the distribution and the logistics. That is the problem that has to be solved and quickly. The states are going to need help. I think that that's become clear. They're going to need a strategy. In Florida, you can have a totally different plan in one county versus another. That shouldn't be the case. And they're going to have to figure this out.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay Gupta, thank you very much. We really appreciate all of the information.

GUPTA: You got it.

CAMEROTA: So the words from the president of the United States matter. What happens when he lies? Our CNN fact checker joins us next.

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[08:41:30]

BERMAN: President Trump used his rally for two Republican Senate candidates in Georgia last night to spread lies and conspiracy theories.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan caught up with some Trump supporters ahead of the rally who believe what the president is saying.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Are Trump and his supporters just sore losers?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we haven't lost.

O'SULLIVAN: So he'll be president for two more weeks?

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No, he will be president until 2024.

O'SULLIVAN: Will you accept Joe Biden as president?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, he'll never be my president.

O'SULLIVAN: OK. But you know -- you accept that he's going to be inaugurated?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, I don't.

O'SULLIVAN: I mean how could that change at this point?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Well, it could be a civil war. You never know.

O'SULLIVAN: You don't actually want a civil war, do you?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We don't want --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Show us the voting machines. Show us the ballots. Show us that this was a fair election or we'll never accept another vote again ever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You don't actually want a civil war, do you? The fact that even has to be asked.

Joining us now, CNN fact checker Daniel Dale.

Daniel, just, first, your reaction to that.

DANIEL DALE, CNN REPORTER: Well, John, it shows us yet again that no matter how outrageous the lie from the president, millions of Americans are going to believe it. And we know the president knows that no matter how many times fact checkers debunk stuff, he's going to be able to get it to his people through social media, through friendly media that doesn't do any fact checking.

And, frankly, this is a long-term problem for the country, the willingness of tens of millions of Americans to believe outrageous misinformation. I don't know how to solve it in the short term.

BERMAN: Right. There's a demand side issue here. It's not just supply side when it comes to the lies.

DALE: Correct. BERMAN: So you fact checked the president's rally last night. What

stood out to you?

DALE: What stood out more than anything was just how detached from reality the president was. Like, this was like up is down, egregious inversion of what is true. It's either the worst lying the president has ever done or his brain has been completely captured by like fringe Internet weirdoes. It's so bad. So saying things like, I won the election. No, he lost. I won Georgia. No, he lost. The other side engaged in mass cheating, dumping of ballots, forging of ballots, you know, throwing ballots in rivers, none of which happened. And so the president spent minutes reading from a script. That was the other thing. This wasn't him ad-libbing lies, this was a prepared text so enabled by a staff that is encouraging him to tell untruths to the American people.

BERMAN: He also made some claims about the Democratic Senate candidates Jon Ossoff and Reverend Raphael Warnock. Tell us about those.

DALE: He did. So he was basically copying the messaging of Georgia Republicans, much of which is false or misleading about their Democratic opponents. For example, he said Warnock talks about opening up the jails. Sounds scary, right? Well, if you go back and watch that clip from last year, Warnock was saying he wants to open up the jails and release people who had been arrested for marijuana offenses in particular. He's not talking about some general amnesty for criminals.

Now, on Ossoff, Trump, like Republicans in Georgia, says that he has joined the crusade to defund the police. Well, go back and listen to Ossoff's comments over many months. He is explicitly opposed to defunding the police. He, like Joe Biden, says he wants police reform. So just completely untrue.

BERMAN: You've been counting Donald Trump's lies from the beginning of the presidency. Even before that. You ran out of fingers and toes long ago.

What has changed about the nature of these lies as we are in the final days of the presidency?

[08:45:00]

DALE: I think it's mostly the frequency that has gotten worse. So in 2017, the first year of the president's presidency, I counted 2.9 false claims per day from him. So I could basically handle this with like a couple hours a week as kind of a side project, maybe on a Sunday. Now you might get 2.9 false claims in a paragraph, sometimes even in a tweet. I mean almost everything the president is saying about the election is untrue. Like it's -- you can get dozens in a day that are not even close to reality. These aren't stretches, you know, little -- little fibs, little -- little piece of spin. Complete and total untruths all the time in all of his public comments. It's just gotten worse and worse.

BERMAN: Daniel Dale, we appreciate you being with us this morning. You need to get some sleep today because tomorrow when they count the electoral votes I have a feeling some statements might be made in Congress that aren't true. You'll need to be there for us.

Thank you so much for being here.

DALE: (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: So the final day of voting is underway in Georgia, but 3 million people have voted early already. What do we know about them? What signs are there? Harry Enten here, next.

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[08:50:17]

CAMEROTA: The polls are open in Georgia and the balance of power in the U.S. Senate is on the line. If the November election is any indicator, it could be a long night or week.

Joining us now, CNN's senior political writer and analyst, Harry Enten.

HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Why?

CAMEROTA: Hi, Harry.

ENTEN: A week? Oh, my goodness gracious.

CAMEROTA: I mean, I'm just saying. I mean I'm just a student of history, political history, unlike you.

ENTEN: Ah, very good. You should -- you should come and join my side now.

CAMEROTA: I know. No, I'm actually -- I could never steal the throne from you.

What does history tell us about how close this race could be today?

ENTEN: Yes, I mean, just take a look at the November results. I think it really gives you an understanding, right.

Look at this, the presidential race, 0.2 of a percentage point. The Senate races, both within two points.

But I will point out here that the Republicans did better than the Democrats in the Senate races. They didn't get over that 50 percent threshold, hence the runoffs today. But they were leading the Democrats.

And the other thing I'll point out is there are those slight differences, right? Democrats do need to win both of those races. If they only win one, Republicans maintain control. So that is a possibility.

BERMAN: Yes, Democrats face an uphill battle to be sure, including in the Perdue/Ossoff race where Ossoff trailed by 88,000 votes, which is not nothing. It's a significant amount. However, Harry, Democrats were looking for positive signs feel like they've found some. What are they?

ENTEN: The early vote, right? That's what you hear consistently. And you can see that in so far the places that are turning out. And what you see is, take a look here, in the congressional districts that Biden won by at least 30 points on average, you have 82 percent so far of the turnout relative to the November elections. While in the places that Trump won by 30 points on average or more, it's only at 71 percent. So right now as we sort of head into election day, Democrats have to like that their voters so far, relative to the November early vote, those voters have been coming out in much larger numbers than the Republican voters have.

CAMEROTA: What about the black vote?

ENTEN: This is the big reason why Democrats are sort of have gotten their voters out early. And what you see is that the African-American vote, the black share of the electorate in the early vote, is larger than the black share in the November election by 3 percentage points. And, of course, because African-Americans are so overwhelmingly Democratic, that's what's driving those large Democratic numbers. And I'll point out that this is unusual given history. Normally black turnout drops in a runoff election in Georgia. But in this particular case, it's up, and that gives Democrats some hope as we head into Election Day right now.

BERMAN: Yes, 3 percent might not look like a lot --

ENTEN: It's a ton.

BERMAN: But with the razor thin margins there, it can make a big difference.

Now, Harry, you spent the last two minutes and 15 seconds talking to us about the early vote and the signs it might be giving us. Why maybe shouldn't we necessarily read too much into the early vote?

ENTEN: Just take a look at the November results in that Senate regular election. Jon Ossoff won that early vote back in November. He won it by 3 points. But the election day vote was so overwhelmingly Republican, David Perdue won it by 22 points, that he got a larger margin led by two points over Ossoff in the overall result. I just can't emphasize this enough, a vote cast on election day is worth the same as a vote cast early. And depending on the exact turnout today, if the Republicans get that turnout that they want, they could, in fact, catch up, despite the very likely Democratic edge in the early vote numbers.

CAMEROTA: And history favors Republicans in runoffs, right?

ENTEN: That's exactly right. So if you look back over time, history is just so important here. In statewide runoffs in Georgia, seven out of eight times since 1992 Republicans have gained relative to Democrats from round one to the runoff. Now, obviously, history can tell us a lot. It doesn't necessarily tell us what will happen today. But I think it's something that we have to take into account and sort of understand that the polls may say one thing and the early vote may say another thing, but today is very, very important and history tells us Republicans have a pretty decent shot of winning in the peach state.

BERMAN: So, Harry, I don't know if you were watching, but they let me touch the magic wall.

ENTEN: I actually did watch the clip on Twitter. I wasn't up, but I watched it afterwards.

BERMAN: Which, by the way, it's epic that they let me actually use technology.

CAMEROTA: It's his happiest day.

BERMAN: That's -- it's a wonderful thing.

But one of the things we discussed is how long it took to call the presidential race in Georgia in November. And it wasn't until Friday of that week that Joe Biden even took the lead in that race.

How long do we think things might take this time and what do we know overall about the timing of the Senate count?

ENTEN: Sure. So you mentioned the presidential race. In the Senate regular it took three days to find out that Jon Ossoff was, in fact, going to be in a runoff with David Perdue. And the big reason why was the absentee vote. That vote by mail. That vote by mail was so overwhelmingly Democratic back in December -- back in November, excuse me, Jon Ossoff won it by 26 points.

[08:55:00]

But here's the key thing to keep in mind, the vote by mail ballots this time around, they passed a new rule in Georgia, they have to begin processing them eight days before -- before this election. In November it was optional. So we may, in fact, get a quicker vote tonight.

But, again, patience, patience, patience. Better to be right than to be fast.

BERMAN: Absolutely.

Harry Enten, great to see you. I have a feeling we're going to see you again.

ENTEN: Maybe, just maybe.

BERMAN: Sometime in the near future.

ENTEN: Bye.

CAMEROTA: Bye.

BERMAN: All right. A lot going on.

It is --

CAMEROTA: And for John Berman fans, you will be on virtually all night, I should tell the viewers, because they're a legion.

BERMAN: That's right. We go on -- you know, I get to touch the wall again starting at about 1:00 a.m. So --

CAMEROTA: Right. By the time I see you at 6:00, anything's possible.

BERMAN: Anything's possible. It's a huge day. They're voting in Georgia. A lot going on. Our coverage continues right after this.

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POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. It is a big day in America, I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

That's right, control of the Senate at stake right now. Georgia voters hitting the polls in two critical runoff races. This will determine which party controls the Senate and how effective a Biden administration will be with its legislative agenda.

[09:00:05]