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Lawmakers Reconvene To Count Electoral College Votes After Pro- Trump Rioters Stormed Capitol; GOP Source: Some Cabinet Members Holding Preliminary Talks About Invoking 25th Amendment; Top White House National Security Officials Are Considering Resigning. Aired 9- 10p ET
Aired January 06, 2021 - 21:00 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
[21:00:00]
SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Don't forget what that Commission that so- called political compromise achieved. It was not just some ordinary governmental commission.
It was a Commission that killed Reconstruction that established Jim Crow that even after a Civil War, which tore this nation apart, it re- enslaved African-Americans, and it was a Commission that invited the voter suppression we are still fighting today, in America.
Let me close by saying this. The vote we're going to have here is a clear choice of whether we are going to feed the beast of ignorance or we are going to tell the truth to the American people. We saw that beast today roaming the halls. Let's not invite it back.
MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT, UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Majority Leader.
SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): President, I yield up to five minutes to the Senator from Kansas, Senator Marshall.
PENCE: Senator from Kansas.
SEN. ROGER MARSHALL (R-KS): Thank you, Mr. President.
Freedom of speech and the freedom to protest are provided in our Constitution.
And while I share the same frustrations many Americans have, over the presidential election, the violence and mob rule, which occurred, at the U.S. Capitol today, and across the country, over the past year are unacceptable, and I condemn them at the highest level.
And like all of us in the chamber, I'm thankful for the heroic law enforcement officers, who worked feverishly to restore order, so we get back to the electoral certification process.
During my 29-year career, as an obstetrician and gynecologist, too often I had to sit down with patients, and give them a very bad diagnosis.
It might have been a young mother of three, who I delivered all three of her babies, now with metastatic breast cancer, or perhaps another woman with advanced cervical or ovarian cancer, all with a very challenging prognosis.
But before I sit down with each one of those patients, I carefully reviewed all their labs, their X-rays and their pathology, to make sure I had the facts straight. But, at the end of the day, my final recommendation was always going to be a recommendation from my heart.
I want my fellow Kansans and all Americans to know that I've given as much consideration and thoughts, surrounding the issue objecting to a state's Electoral College votes, as I did, considering the treatment plan for a serious health concern, and today's decision, once again, is from my heart.
Mr. President, I rise today, to restore integrity to our Republic, and I rise to join many of our colleagues, who are all concerned for current and future generations. We must restore faith and confidence in our Republic's most-held patriotic duties, voting.
There is no question our U.S. Constitution empowers state legislatures to execute free, legal and fair elections. Unfortunately, in several states, the clear authority of those state legislatures, to determine the rules for voting, were usurped by governors, secretaries of states, and activist courts.
Our laws and Constitution should always be followed, especially in a time of crisis. I don't rise undoing a state's legally-obtained Electoral College votes. Rather I rise in hopes of improving the integrity of the ballot, to hold states accountable, to the time- proven constitutional system of the Electoral College.
This is why I urge the formation of electoral commission to give constructive suggestions, and recommendation the states can make to make our elections once again--
REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): --Congress has returned to the Capitol. We always knew that this responsibility would take us into the night, and we'll stay as long as it takes. Our purpose will be accomplished.
We must and we will show to the country and indeed to the world that we will not be diverted from our duty, that we will respect our responsibility to the Constitution and to the American people.
On Sunday, it was a great - my great honor to be sworn in as Speaker, and to preside over a sacred ritual of renewal.
As we gathered, under this dome, of this temple of democracy, to open the 117th Congress, I said that as we were sworn in then, we accept a responsibility as daunting and demanding as any previous generation of leadership has ever faced.
We know that we're in difficult times, but little could we have imagined the assault that was made on our democracy today.
[21:05:00] To those who strove to tear us from our responsibility, you have failed. To those who engaged in the gleeful desecration of this, our temple of democracy, American democracy, justice will be done.
Today, January 6th, is the "Feast of the Epiphany." On this day of revelation, let us pray that this instigation to violence will provide an epiphany for our country to heal.
In that spirit of healing, I evoke the song of Saint Francis. I usually do. Saint Francis is the patron saint of my City of San Francisco, and his song of Saint Francis is our anthem.
"Lord, make me a channel of thy peace. Where there is darkness, may I bring light. Where there is hatred, let us bring love. Where there is despair, let us bring hope."
We know that we would be part of history in a positive way today, every four years, when we demonstrate again the peaceful transfer of power, from one president to the next. And despite the shameful actions of today, we still will do so.
We will be part of a history that shows the world what America is made of that these - this assault, this assault is just that. It shows the weakness of those who've had to show, through violence, what their message was.
My colleagues, it's time to move on.
I wear this pin quite frequently. Actually, I gave it to our beloved John Lewis, just the weekend before he - weekend or so before he left us. And it's a flag of our country, a flag of the United States of America.
On it, it says "One Country, One Destiny," "One Country, One Destiny" written on the flag. That was also what was embroidered in Abraham Lincoln's coat that he had on that fateful night. Lincoln's party, Lincoln's message, "One Country, One Destiny."
So, on this holy day of Epiphany, let us pray. I'm a big believer in prayer. Let us pray that there will be peace on earth, and that it will begin with us. Let us pray that God will continue to bless America.
And with that, let us proceed with our responsibilities, to the Constitution, to which we have, just within 72 hours, taken the oath to uphold.
What purpose does the gentleman from Maryland seek recognition?
REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): Madam Speaker, I rise in opposition to the objection.
PELOSI: Gentleman is recognized for five minutes.
HOYER: Madam Speaker, it is a sad day in America. It is a wrenching day in America. It is a day in which our words and
our actions have had consequences of a very, very negative nature. We ought to watch our words, and think what it may mean to some.
My remarks were written before the tragic, dangerous and unacceptable actions, and "Unacceptable" is such a tame word. My remarks started with Madam Speaker.
The American people today are witnessing one of the greatest challenges to our democracy in its 244-year history. Little did I know that this Capitol would be attacked by the enemy within. I was here on 9/11 when we were attacked by the enemy with-out.
[21:10:00]
We need to all work together to tame and reduce the anger, and, yes, the hate that some stoke.
What some, not all, Madam Speaker, but some, in this House and in this Senate are doing today will not change the outcome of the election, which is the clear and insurmountable victory of President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris.
Instead, all they will accomplish is to further the dangerous divisions. This was written before this Capitol was assaulted, before this democracy was put aside by thousands, encouraged by the Commander-in-Chief.
Instead, all they will accomplish is to further the dangerous divisions, as I said, among our people, and energize conspiracy theories, stoked by our foreign adversaries, which seek to erode America's confidence in our democracy and our system of free and fair elections.
I was here in 2000. I was strongly in favor of Al Gore for president. And my candidate got more votes than the other candidate. His name was George Bush, of course. And one of the saddest days was January 20th of 2001, when our candidate, who won the election, in my view, was not elected.
But it was also one of the proudest moments of my career because the greatest power on earth passed peacefully, from Bill Clinton to George W. Bush. Not a shot was fired. Nobody assaulted this Caucus or this Congress or this chamber.
Because we were not disappointed? No. Because we were not angry? No. Because we believe in democracy. We believe in "We, the people." And the way the people - one of the speakers, I think it was the Senator from Texas, expressed, "We are here for the people."
If those were the people, we're in a lot of trouble.
Our electoral system, our democratic system, however, did not break under the strains of the misinformation, the claims of fraud, which court after court after court have dismissed out of hand, not because there was a little evidence, because there was no evidence. That's why we're the longest-lasting constitutional democracy in the world. I hope all of us in this body are proud of that, and understand why that's the case.
Because, as Dick Gephardt said on this floor, many years ago, "Democracy is a substitute for war to resolve differences." It proved once more than ever-beating strong heart that gives life to our Republic and our freedoms.
That strength, Madam Speaker, is derived, in part, from our institution and our laws. But, most importantly, it is powered by citizens' and leaders' commitment to our Constitution, not just us. We swear an oath. But it's all of America.
Barack Obama spoke from that chamber and he said, "I'm going to be taking another title next year. Citizen!" And he was proud to take that. And every citizen needs to protect, preserve and uplift our democracy. Some today did not do that. Many today.
[21:15:00]
68 years ago, in Springfield, Illinois, Governor Adlai Stevenson gracefully conceded his loss to General Dwight Eisenhower. He said this in traditionally - it is traditionally American, he told his deeply-disappointed supporters, to fight hard before an election.
But then, he added, it is equally traditional to close ranks as soon as the people have spoken, not the Congress, not the electors. The people have spoken. That which unite us, as American citizens, is far greater than that which divides us, as political parties.
It was another man from Springfield, fourscore and eight years earlier, who won reelection to the presidency, and in a national crisis that tested our country and its democratic institutions, who pleaded even in his hour of victory for the same spirit of reconciliation. That was the party of Lincoln. That hasn't happened to this hour.
Lincoln said now that the election is over, he asked, may not all having a common interest--
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): --to the men and women of the Capitol Hill police, the armed - the National Guardsmen, the Metropolitan police and others, who came to this Capitol, who put their lives, on the line, to protect everyone here, working inside of it. And I want to thank law enforcement, all across this country, in my home state of Missouri, and everywhere else, who do that day in and day out.
And I just want to acknowledge that when it comes to violence, this has been a terrible year in America, this last year. We've seen a lot of violence against law enforcement. And today, we saw it here, in the capital of the United States.
And in this country, in the United States of America, we cannot say emphatically enough, violence is not how you achieve change. Violence is not how you achieve something better. Our Constitution was built and put into place, so that there would be, in the words of Abraham Lincoln, no appeal from ballots to bullets, which is what we saw unfortunately attempted tonight. There is no place for that in the United States of America.
And that's why I submit to my colleagues that what we're doing here tonight is actually very important.
Because for those who have concerns, about the integrity of our elections, those who have concerns about what happened in November, this is the appropriate means, this is the lawful place, where those objections and concerns should be heard.
This is the forum that the law provides for - our laws provide for, for those concerns to be registered, not through violence, not by appealing from ballots to bullets, but here in this lawful process.
And so, to those who say that this is just a formality today, an antique ceremony that we've engaged in for a couple of hundred years, I can't say that I agree. I can't say that our precedence suggests that.
I actually think it's very vital what we do, the opportunity to be heard, to register objections is very vital, because this is the place, where those objections are to be heard and dealt with, debated, and finally resolved, in this lawful means, peacefully, without violence, without attacks, without bullets.
And so, Mr. President, let me just say now briefly, in lieu of speaking about it later, a word about Pennsylvania, which is a state that I have been focused on, objected to, as an example of why people are concerned, millions of Americans concerned, about our election integrity, to say that Pennsylvania, quite apart from allegations of any fraud, you have a state constitution that has been interpreted for over a century to say that there is no mail-in balloting permitted, except for in very narrow circumstances that's also provided for in the law.
And, yet, last year, Pennsylvania elected officials passed a whole new law that allows universal mail-in balloting, and did it ir-regardless of what the Pennsylvania Constitution said.
And then, when Pennsylvania citizens tried to go, and be heard on this subject, before the Pennsylvania Supreme Court, they were dismissed on grounds of procedure, timeliness, in violation of that Supreme Court's own precedent. So, the merits of the case have never been heard. The constitutionality of the statute actually has never been defended.
I'm not aware of any court that has passed on its constitutionality. Actually, I'm not aware of anybody who's defended the constitutionality, and this was what - this was the statute that governed this last election, in which there are over 2.5 million mail- in ballots in Pennsylvania.
This is my point that this is the forum. The Pennsylvania Supreme Court hasn't heard the case. There is no other court to go to, to hear the case, in the state. And so, this is the appropriate place for these concerns to be raised, which is why I have raised them here today.
[21:20:00]
And I hope that this body will not miss the opportunity to take affirmative action, to address the concerns of so many millions of Americans, to say to millions of Americans tonight that violence is never warranted, that violence will not be tolerated, that those who engaged in it will be prosecuted, but that this body will act to address the concerns of all Americans across the country.
We do need an investigation into irregularities, fraud. We do need a way forward together. We need election security reforms. I bet my friends on the other side of the aisle don't disagree with that.
We need to find a way to move forward on that together, so that the American people, from both parties, all walks of life, can have confidence, in their elections, and that we can arrange ourselves, under the rule of law, that we share together.
Thank you, Mr. President. I yield the floor.
CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST: Hey, I am Chris Cuomo. Welcome to PRIME TIME.
We are monitoring what's happening in the Senate and in the House at this hour. Obviously, they are reintroducing their legal duties to certify the electoral votes from the states.
Now, we're taking this moment to pause. We are monitoring, and as anything that is said is operative, in terms of the state of debate, we'll go right to it.
But Senator Hawley of Missouri deserves a moment of pause.
"The Kansas City Star," his home state paper, said today that he has blood on his hands, for the insurrection attempt that we saw today that but for him, it may not have happened, because we may not have had the level of controversy, during this procedure that we're having.
Now, what is the basis of the case against Hawley? Let's look at it in reverse, and it will be more clear.
Hawley's case is this. What happened in Pennsylvania, not his state, OK, but that's OK, is wrong. And they never had any chance. This all just happened unchecked, so that the Senate, this final forum, is the only place and the proper forum to address that.
Now, first you have the law. The forum that they have right now is not for the litigation of state issues with their election.
It was born out of a time when the Congress was blindsided by states sending in competing slates of electors, and there was nothing in the Constitution, or in federal law, at that time, to deal with it. They didn't know what to do in 1870 or whatever 1872. So, they had to come up with rules, where they could object to the certifications of those electoral slates. They needed a process. But it was not to go through any type of litigation of what happened in states, in the certification process, in the election process that they are responsible for.
Then you get to the facts. In Pennsylvania, he says they never got to hear it. That's not true. This was an Alamo (ph) of that legislature. It was tested by that state's Supreme Court, and it was found lacking for federal review. Those are three levels, three levels, of looking through this situation by the state.
So, he doesn't have a law, and he doesn't have the facts. But I'll tell you what he does have. He's got a place in history, after what happened today, and for what he's trying to do, on the congressional floor of the Senate, right now.
Let's bring in David Gregory, Michael Smerconish.
Smerc, home state Pennsylvania, you are on officer of the court there. Your reckoning of what Senator Hawley is saying that had has to be done here because Pennsylvanians never got a chance to review these matters that controlled their election.
MICHAEL SMERCONISH, CNN ANCHOR: I think it's totally belied by the facts, as you've already laid out.
These issues were extensively litigated, in the state court system, and in the federal system, and I think, most significantly were cast aside by judges, including one in the Third Circuit of Pennsylvania, the Appellate Court, just below the Supreme Court of the United States, who was a Donald J. Trump appointee. So, it makes for great sound bites.
And I paid particular attention, Chris, to when he said "Hey, we're not talking about fraud," part of this continuing disconnect between that which the President has said in social media, that which Rudy Giuliani has said in the court of public opinion, but not that which has been litigated.
And that disconnect between the two is something that stunned me for the last two months.
CUOMO: So, David, then it comes to what the political play is here, because he has to know what Smerc and I are discussing.
By all accounts, he is an intelligent man. The focus of stupidity here seems to be what he projects on to the people who are hearing him, that they're dumb enough to buy this. What is his political play that is worth what happened today?
DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, AUTHOR, "HOW'S YOUR FAITH?": Well let me just back up for a second and ask this question.
Who is Josh Hawley to question the wisdom of the Supreme Court of the United States, which decided not to intervene? Who is Josh Hawley to weaponize his education and his experience, as a court clerk--
SMERCONISH: Yes.
[21:25:00]
GREGORY: --at the Supreme Court, to suggest that this is the place to overturn the will of the people? That is not the job.
His own colleague knows better. Rand Paul, I heard on Fox News, earlier tonight, very astutely pointing out that this is not a protest. It's not an objection. It's an attempt for Congress to overturn the will of the states.
His political play is plain. I think he wants to be president one day. And he made a calculation, in his very ambitious way, that he was going to try to stay close to Donald Trump, and to Trumpism, whether it's truthful or not, and ride it as far as he could.
And he is accountable, in part, for what he's wrought, and for what all of these lies have wrought, and that is the events of today. That is what's playing.
If you want to be serious, if you want to get an - be an elected representative of the United States, and you want to be serious, then you can take up, after an election that has been certified, and you can take it up with the state legislatures.
I thought he was a Republican, and believed in state's rights. Go lobby the state legislature about making changes about when you can have solicited ballots. Don't presume to lie to the American people about that's, the place, on the floor of the Senate, to do it. Who is he to be an usurper of this way?
CUOMO: Michael, what do you make of the move of him sticking to his guns, even after today?
As we've been watching tonight, one of the most notable things is that even the people that I call Re-Trump-licans, who have abandoned what they're supposed to be about, as members of the GOP, in fealty to Trump, they're sounding a lot more rational tonight, but not him.
Now, let's get an example of it in real-time. Here's Senator Mitt Romney, one of the first and only Republican voices, to condemn the events of today, as being on Trump's head.
SEN. MITT ROMNEY (R-UT): --as a place of hope. And I saw the images being broadcast around the world, and it breaks my heart.
I have 25 grandchildren. Many of them were watching TV, thinking about this building, whether their grandpa was OK. I knew I was OK.
I must tell you as well, I was proud to serve with these men and women. This is an extraordinary group of people. I'm proud to be a member of the United States Senate, and meet with people of integrity, as we do here today. Now we gather due to a selfish man's injured pride, and the outrage of supporters, who he has deliberately misinformed, for the past two months, and stirred to action this very morning.
What happened here today was an insurrection, incited by the President of the United States.
Those who choose to continue to support his dangerous gambit, by objecting to the results of a legitimate democratic election, will forever be seen, as being complicit, in an unprecedented attack against our democracy. Fairly or not, they'll be remembered for their role in this shameful episode in American history. That will be their legacy.
I salute Senator Lankford, and Loeffler, and Braun, and Daines, and I'm sure others who, in the light of today's outrage, have withdrawn their objection.
For any who remain insistent on an audit, in order to satisfy the many people, who believe that the election was stolen, I'd offer this perspective.
No congressional audit is ever going to convince these voters, particularly when the President will continue to say that the election was stolen. The best way we can show respect for the voters who were upset is by telling them the truth.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
ROMNEY: That's the burden, that's the duty, of leadership.
The truth is that President-elect Biden won the election, President Trump lost. I've had that experience myself, it's no fun.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
ROMNEY: Scores of courts, the President's own Attorney General, state election officials, both Republican and Democrat, have reached that unequivocal decision.
And in light of today's sad circumstances, I asked my colleague, "Do we weigh our own political fortunes more heavily than we weigh the strength of our Republic, the strength of our democracy, and the cause of freedom? What's the weight of personal acclaim compared to the weight of conscience?"
[21:30:00]
Leader McConnell said that the vote today is the most important in his 36 years of public service. Think of that! Authorizing two wars, voting in two impeachments! He said that not because the vote reveals something about the election. It's because this vote reveals something about us.
I urge my colleagues to move forward with completing the electoral count, to refrain from further objections, and to unanimously affirm the legitimacy of the presidential election.
Thank you, Mr. President.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hear! Hear!
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Democratic Leader.
SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): Senator from New Hampshire, Senator Shaheen.
PENCE: Senator from New Hampshire.
SEN. JEANNE SHAHEEN (D-NH): Mr. President, on January 3rd, I, along with 31 of my colleagues, stood in this chamber, and swore an oath to support and defend the Constitution of the United States. It's both ironic and--
CUOMO: We take a break from Senator Jeanne Shaheen.
Again, we are monitoring what's happening in the Senate. The House is having its own concurrent roll call and debate there. They say they're going to end the work of their constitutional duty tonight.
Michael, Mitt Romney came up and made the point that we were circling around, which is how Hawley and Cruz and others will be remembered. And he used the words as "Complicit" in today's shameful events. Your take?
SMERCONISH: I agree with him. And may I say that although I don't agree with Senator Romney, on a whole host of issues, I admire his sense of decorum and civility.
And I - I'll bet you know this, Chris, but it bears repeating. Famously, he flies alone and in coach. And when he did so yesterday, last night, to go from Salt Lake to Washington, he had people in his face chanting, "Traitor! Traitor! Traitor!"
And I worry about people who watch an incident like that, hear of it, maybe are inclined to be in public service, and say, "Why would I subject myself to that?" We need more people with a sense of civility like Senator Romney, and we can't afford them to be chased, out of the public arena.
CUOMO: Now, David, we've heard many of our colleagues today, saying the events were "Surreal, unimaginable." I disagree. I think it was all too real.
GREGORY: Right.
CUOMO: I think this is where we are, and we have been blind to it, many of us who don't get to travel around the country a lot. This is who we are.
There are a lot of people, who believe with what those people were thinking and doing today, at the Capitol. The question is does this mark a beginning or an end for this country?
GREGORY: Well, look, I think there is some positive to take out of tonight. I think the speeches we're hearing, on the floor of the House and the Senate, are very important tonight.
Mitt Romney, a prominent among them, and there have been others, Republicans and Democrats who are reflecting--
CUOMO: But only Democrats were - only Democrats were clapping for Romney, I'm told by the Control Room.
GREGORY: OK.
CUOMO: When they started clapping for him, we wanted to know who. It wasn't his own Party. Keep going.
GREGORY: Yes. Nevertheless, Republicans and Democrats have made some very important points on a day that was being built up as a lot of theater, and a lot of nonsense, and people have taken stock.
I try to be more positive, after the events of today, where I think Republicans have an opportunity, to reflect on the path that they're headed down. I don't think even those who were, you know, who had nursed grievances, who were pro-Trump, I don't think this crowd, this mob today is reflective of them.
CUOMO: Yes.
SMERCONISH: Yes.
GREGORY: I don't think people would resort to violence.
These were people who were particularly whipped up and vulnerable to this President's message, who went out of his way, to tell them, to take that anger to the Capitol, and that was wrong.
CUOMO: Michael, let me get a quick - let me get a quick button from you, and then I want to go to Jim Acosta about what's happening in the White House.
And just to be clear, I'm not saying a beginning or end of our country. I'm saying a beginning of this kind of phase of chaotic mobocracy, or will this be an endpoint, where we pivot to something better?
SMERCONISH: Yes. But I'm really angry about something. I'm angry about a lot of things.
One of them is this was not a sneak attack executed against drinking Hessians on Christmas. This was totally predictable. This was incited. And, Chris, this could have been catastrophic.
I mean if those folks burst into the Capitol, armed with automatic weapons, instead of Gadsden flags, we would have a catastrophe on our hands. And how the hell the Capitol was able to be breached really requires some investigation. CUOMO: And I'll tell you, I say god forbid because that's who we had to leave it to today, because they either weren't ready, and there are also some deeper questions, the video of them letting people through barricades, taking selfies with some of the protesters.
SMERCONISH: Yes.
CUOMO: You've heard a lot of people, especially monitories, today, saying, "Would it have been the same if they were Black people rushing?"
GREGORY: Right.
CUOMO: And then they were saying, "Oh yes, they were Black. They're all Antifa people." It's all BS. And we know it would have been different, if they were Black. And that's part of the poison that's in this country right now.
[21:35:00]
SMERCONISH: Right.
CUOMO: Let me get to Jim Acosta.
SMERCONISH: Yes.
CUOMO: I'm going to need you guys though because I think there's going to be some reporting coming out of him that we have to analyze.
Jim, Jim Acosta is at the White House, word that people in the cabinet, there are concerns. Do you hear this?
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Yes.
CUOMO: And if so, to what extent?
ACOSTA: Yes, Chris. And I think there is a lot to analyze about all of this. And I'll try to walk-through it as best as I can.
But I'm hearing from a well-placed Republican source that there have been preliminary conversations going on, inside the cabinet, among some cabinet members, about invoking the 25th Amendment of the Constitution, to force the removal of President Trump from office.
Now, that is a dramatic step. It's never been taken before. And it's something that hasn't really been contemplated until really today with the events that we saw unfolding up on Capitol Hill.
I am told that this talk of using the 25th Amendment to force President Trump from office has reached Capitol Hill.
There are some Republican senators, who have been briefed on this, who understand that these discussions are taking place. And so, word is spreading that this may end up happening.
Now, the process is complicated, Chris. The Vice President and a majority of the cabinet would have to determine that the President is unable to carry out the duties of his office.
The President could contest that, and then it would go to the Congress, and you would need, I think, a two-thirds vote in each house, in the House and the Senate, for the President to be removed from office.
CUOMO: That's right.
ACOSTA: That's obviously a tall order, given the makeup of the Senate, as we speak.
We saw what the impeachment trial of President Trump there are very few, if any, Republican senators, who were willing to throw the President out of office, Mitt Romney, essentially being the only one. So, getting to two-thirds is not likely to happen.
I will tell you though the President's mental state has also come up in talking to my sources. Talked to a Trump adviser, who speaks with the President, frequently, who said that the President has lost it. "He's lost it" are the words used by this adviser.
And I talked to a separate source, close to the White House, earlier this evening, who say - who says that the President is being seen by staff members as being, quote, unstable and ranting and raving.
So, Chris, there are serious questions about the President's mental state. I take no pleasure, as a reporter, over here at the White House, in reporting that. But that is the fact of the matter, it appears, this evening, from talking to my sources.
There are questions about the President's mental state and now discussions about whether or not the cabinet should invoke the 25th Amendment, along with the Vice President, Mike Pence, a process that would make Mike Pence, President of the United States, but again, a process that is ultimately not likely to pan out with the removal of President Trump from the office, if he fights it.
CUOMO: Right. And there are also some periods at play within the statutory language of the Amendment, how much time Congress would have, how much time the President would have.
ACOSTA: Exactly.
CUOMO: Well I don't know that it would wind up being relevant, even if it's feasible, given how much time is left. But it is indicative of the mindset of what's happening in and around the people at the White House. So Jim, thank you very much.
ACOSTA: That's right.
CUOMO: Get in my ear.
ACOSTA: You got it.
CUOMO: If you have anything else. Right now, I want to jump to Kaitlan Collins, because while a move on the President doesn't seem as likely, Kaitlan is hearing about something that is more likely, which is people making a decision that now is the time to step away, and try to somehow salvage their reputation, before they go down in the ignominy of the legacy of this President.
Kaitlan, what are you hearing?
KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Chris, it's going to raise questions, if they can do that. What difference it makes resigning, when there are only two weeks left. But we do now have at least two staffers, who have resigned, in wake of what happened today, and the President's response is directly responsible for that.
But we are now learning that several high-ranking officials are now considering resigning. And that includes the National Security Advisor, Robert O'Brien, who is incredibly close to the President, typically a pretty big ally of his.
And we got an indication something was going on with that relationship, earlier today, because O'Brien came out in support of the Vice President, putting out a statement, calling him courageous, praising what he did today, and saying that he is a good man that O'Brien has known for some time. And of course, that comes as the President has been complaining about Pence all day.
But also the Deputy National Security Advisor, Matt Pottinger, who played a key role, in the response to the pandemic, at the beginning, he was the one, urging people, in the West Wing, to wear masks, when nobody was, he is also considering resigning. We're actually told that his resignation could come as soon as tonight.
And then a third top official, it's the Deputy Chief of Staff Chris Liddell is also considering resigning.
So, those are three officials that we know. There are names that are considering resigning. But we have several others that we are working on reporting that are also considering resigning.
And of course, if they ultimately do, the question is going to be, you know, why was this what drove you to eventually resign from your job, in Donald Trump's White House, when there is only a few weeks left, given everything else that has happened, over the last four years.
But Chris, tonight, people inside the West Wing are genuinely shaken by this. They're shaken by the President's behavior, how he has responded.
[21:40:00]
We reported earlier that he was reluctant to deploy the National Guard, to that situation you saw unfolding, on Capitol Hill, even as officers there were being overwhelmed by the President's own supporters going in and breaching the building. And so, it's behavior like that, and in the President's latest tweet, defending those - that mob saying that "This is what happens when you steal an election," it's that kind of behavior that is behind the resignations that are currently being talked about, and the ones that we could get, and we should note. They are expecting a lot of them could come over the next several days.
CUOMO: Kaitlan, thank you very much. You hear anything else, you know how to get right to me. I'll come right back to you.
Let's go back to Michael Smerconish, and David Gregory, unpack both of these quickly, while monitoring what's happening, on the floor of the Senate and the House.
Remember, we're getting through the speeches, so that we can get to the actual votes, about the certification of the state, see if there are any other objections. We'll take it on.
First, the 25th Amendment, Smerc, do you see this as likely?
SMERCONISH: I don't see it as likely, but I have to be open to the prospect for this reason. When the 25th Amendment has come up previously, on this President's watch, I've always answered by saying, "Well, of course, Mike Pence is never going along with that."
But today was a turning point, right? I mean, today was the day that the President threw, via Twitter, the Vice President, multiple times, under the bus. So what might be the Vice President's mindset tonight? Probably a lot different than it's been for the last four years.
CUOMO: Resignations, David, what would they mean?
GREGORY: I don't think very much at this point. I think, you know, there is a lot of people that I have talked to who have served in this administration, who are now out, who are trying to build the case that if they weren't there, things could have been a lot worse.
Well, very difficult to argue at this late stage. People may be legitimately horrified by the President's words and his actions today. But at this point, it's just a chaotic end of an administration that is in tatters, and has been, and stained really from the beginning.
So, I don't think people will put much stock in it. And I don't think the Republican leaders are looking for any more drama right now, you know? Democrats are going to take over the Congress. They are going to assume the presidency.
I think this is a night of some reflection, on the part of Republican leaders, who recognize the peril they're in politically, but the damage that was done to our country.
I covered 9/11, as you did, and part of that was a failure of imagination of our vulnerability as a country.
That vulnerability is there, as a democracy as well. It's also incredible resilient. We're seeing both ends of that today, and we got to kind of sit with that before we leap to the next round of what may just be speculation at this point.
CUOMO: All right, brothers, hold on a second. We have former congressmember Will Hurd from Texas. He put out a very strong statement.
It is good to see you. I hope you and the family are well. What was your sense of why today happened?
WILL HURD, (R) FORMER U.S. REPRESENTATIVE: Look, today happened because a number of our elected leaders incentivized this behavior and poured gasoline on a problem.
And one of the things that I learned - look, what's shocking to me in all this is, my time overseas, you know I spent about a decade as an undercover officer in the CIA, I've been at embassies that were overrun, blown up, I never would have expected I saw the spectacle today in Washington D.C.
And for any kids that may be watching, right, who are staying up late with their parents, this is not how we settle our differences in the United States of America.
And the fact that there are some of those people that were there that actually believe some of these conspiracy theories, and that is being pushed by the President, and some of the people that are enabling him, is scary.
And let's put politics aside, right? Be honest and do the right thing, right? We know - let's take Georgia. Georgia, there was three counts. One of them was counted by hand.
Some of these same people that are questioning, whether there was, you know, we need to rethink the election, and the Senate needs to have a 10-day commission to look at things, these are some of the same people that were against adding money, to the Department of Homeland Security, to defend the digital infrastructure, after the 2016 election--
CUOMO: Strong point!
HURD: --when we know the Russians tried to get into the election. So, this is - be honest and do the right thing. But also politically, guess what? Every Republican - almost every Republican that won in 2020 outperformed Donald Trump.
CUOMO: Right.
[21:45:00]
HURD: Donald Trump was a drain on people, not a benefit. So, why are you continuing to think that somehow in 2022 this is going to be a good thing? And so, let's stop trying to pursue our own political agenda.
And when we put our hand, on our heart, and pledge allegiance to the flag, it's for the flag of the United States of America. We don't pledge allegiance to a man or an individual. That's what makes our country great.
And I will say this, Chris. The one thing I do know about America is that in times of crisis, we know how to band together and come together. And I think we're seeing a little bit of that glimmer at this, on the Senate floor, and the House floor.
And I hope we all are able to step back, and recognize that what is happening is we're becoming a joke around the world. I've had friends, from all over the world, text me and be like, "What's going on?"
The fact that the President of Turkey--
CUOMO: Yes.
HURD: --is putting out tweets saying, "Hey, we need to caution, you know, working together." People in Venezuela are doing the same thing. Our enemies are taking advantage of this.
But we have to step back and also think why do some of these people believe this? How do we address this? How do we rebuild that trust?
CUOMO: Right.
HURD: That many Americans have lost.
CUOMO: Well, you know this, transparency builds trust that is based on truth. You know these things. You were a fair broker, when you were in the House. And again, as it was at on the bottom of the screen before, Will Hurd was a Member of Congress, representing Texas.
Now, two questions. One is a point of pushback. The counterargument is, Will, "This is who we are. This is how we're settling things."
This is what Trump has engendered with the help of many men and women, in your Party, smart members of your Party, Cruz, Hawley, Supreme Court clerks, smart men who are pushing bad arguments that they have to know are bad, fomenting tensions.
What ownership must your Party have, the what - party I have started calling the Re-Trump-licans that they must own for what led up to today?
HURD: They contributed to today. There's no doubt about it.
Look, I'm not a lawyer. My degree is in computer science. But, I think, at the top of the hour, you were talking about what's happening in Pennsylvania. And why is a senator from Missouri questioning, what's happening in Pennsylvania, when it's already gone through those processes?
Oh also, by the way, I thought our beliefs was state's rights and that the states have this ability, in order to conduct their elections, and use their legal system, in order to - in order to review that.
And they both know that there is - Congress can't do anything in 10 days. They're going to do a 10-day commission to look into some of these things? That's not the place where you have those debates. And so, they contributed.
CUOMO: So why do they're doing it?
HURD: Look, I think it's politically, right? They think that this is going to gain them some political clout with some future voters, right?
And look, the part of being a leader, right, is explaining and being honest, right, and being committed to some ideals. And we need to have national leaders that inspire, not fear-monger or incite violence, right?
And that's where - I believe that, you know - and I'm going to push back on you, Chris.
CUOMO: Go ahead.
HURD: This is not - what we saw happening, this afternoon, in the Capitol, that's not what America is about. That's a handful of the fringe, right?
And what America is about is when you crisscross this country, 80 percent of Americans, when they put their hand on their chest, and they love this country, they know what it's about.
They want to make sure that we have checks and balances. They believe that the ends don't justify the means. They want to love their neighbor like themselves, right? That's the way real America is.
But guess what? That's not sexy. That doesn't get clicks, right? It doesn't create interesting conversations on late night news.
But that is where we need to encourage that kind of behavior. And that's why I love this country. And I still believe that our best days are ahead of us and that this is a moment for us to reflect.
CUOMO: Right. Look, I agree with you as long as we let today live in infamy, and hold the people to account, who fomented this, because people may want to have their hand in the heart, and love each.
But when you start lying to them, for weeks, and months, and years, on end, and it gets backed up, everywhere you go, by people who nod their heads, when they know you're full of it, this is what we get.
Now, there is one other quick question, Will, and then I want to get back to the floor. And thank you for being with us.
HURD: Sure.
CUOMO: The security, today, how did they not know? How were they not set up? Why am I seeing footage of security letting people through barriers, and taking selfies with protesters?
Do you think this was about giving a pass to people because they were White, or because they were for Trump, because we would have never seen this, at any of the riots, that I've been to recently? [21:50:00]
HURD: Well I think one of the last Black Lives Matters' protests, you had helicopters circling Washington D.C.
I can't speak to the tactics, techniques, and procedures that was used today. This was - you should've known yesterday, when you had, there was protests, around Washington D.C., around this.
You knew that if the President was going to kick off a rally, and have everybody march down to the Capitol that this was going to be a problem. You should've been on notice. You should've had the D.C. Police ready to go.
There's going to be a lot of Monday morning quarterbacking, but I will say this. I'm glad they got the situation under control, so that Congress can finish their job.
CUOMO: Absolutely.
HURD: Finish that job tonight, in order to show that a mob that violence is not going to stop us and it's not - can't stop democracy. But there should be a lot of questions being asked.
And think about all those new members. This is day four. Think about those new staffers that are bushy-tailed, and bright-eyed, and excited to be there, and they don't even know where the restrooms are.
CUOMO: Right.
HURD: And so imagine that that was going on. And these questions should be asked, so we don't allow something like this to happen in the future. And we also got to make sure we get through the rest of the week.
CUOMO: That's right. Let's try to get through the rest of the week.
Hey, Will, look god bless. We're in a position to have Congress seated again, and doing their job, after a day like today. That does show resilience that hopefully adds to the promise going forward.
Will Hurd, best to you. You're always welcome here.
Now--
HURD: Thank you, brother. Happy New Year.
CUOMO: Happy New Year.
Back to the floor of the Senate, this is Chris Van Hollen giving his speech. Let's listen in.
SEN. CHRIS VAN HOLLEN (D-MD): --wrote about a famous exchange in his diaries between Elizabeth Willing Powel and Benjamin Franklin, wrote, a lady asked, Dr. Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got? A Republic or a Monarchy?" "A Republic," replied Dr. Franklin "if you can keep it."
My colleagues, this is a test of whether we're united to keep our Republic. I hope we will pass the test together.
Thank you, Mr. President.
PENCE: Majority Leader?
MCCONNELL: Mr. President, I yield up to five minutes to the Senator from South Carolina, Senator Graham.
PENCE: Senator from South Carolina.
SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): Many times my state has been the problem. I love it. It's where I want to die, but no time soon.
Tim and I have a good relationship. I love Tim Scott. 1876, South Carolina, Louisiana, and Florida sent two slate of electors, they had two governments, by the way, and we didn't know what to do.
Why did South Carolina, Florida, and Louisiana do it? To hold the country hostage to end Reconstruction.
It worked. The Commission was 8-7. It didn't work. Nobody accepted it. The way it ended is when Hayes did a deal with these three states, "You give me the electors. I'll kick the Union Army out." The rest is history. It led to Jim Crow.
If you're looking for historical guidance, this is not the one to pick.
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: If you're looking for a way to convince people there was no fraud, having a commission chosen by Nancy Pelosi, Mitch McConnell, and John Roberts is not going to get you to where you want to go.
It ain't going to work. So it's not going to do any good. It's going to delay, and it gives credibility to a dark chapter of our history. That's why I'm not with you.
But I will fight to my death for you. You're able to object. You're not doing anything wrong. Other people have objected. I just think it's a uniquely bad idea to delay this election.
Trump and I, we've had a hell of a journey. I hate it being this way. Oh my god, I hate it. From my point of view, he's been a consequential president, but today, first thing you'll see, all I can say is "Count me out. Enough is enough. I've tried to be helpful."
But when this Wisconsin Supreme Court ruled 4-3 that they didn't violate the Supreme - the Constitution of Wisconsin, I agreed with the three, but I accept the four. If Al Gore can accept 5-4, he's not president, I can accept Wisconsin 4-3.
[21:55:00] Pennsylvania, it went to the Second Circuit, so much for all the judges being in Trump's pocket, they said "No, you're wrong." I accept the Pennsylvania Second Circuit that Trump's lawsuit wasn't right.
Georgia, they said the Secretary of State took the law in his own hands, he changed the election laws unlawfully, a federal judge said "No." I accept the federal jumble, even though I don't agree with it.
Fraud, they said there are 66,000 people in Georgia, under 18, voted. How many people believe that? I asked "Give me 10." I hadn't had one. They said 8,000 felons, in prison, in Arizona, voted. "Give me 10," I hadn't got one.
Does that say there is - there is problems in every election? I don't buy this. Enough is enough. We've got to end it.
Vice President Pence, what they are asking you to do, you won't do because you can't.
You talk about interesting times. I associate myself with Rand Paul. How many times will you hear that?
(AUDIENCE LAUGHTER)
GRAHAM: The mob has done something nobody else could do, to get me and Rand to agree. Rand is right. If you're a conservative, this is the most offensive concept in the world that a single person could disenfranchise 155 million people.
"The President of the Senate shall, in the Presence of the Senate and the House of Representatives, open all Certificates, and the Votes shall then be counted. The Person having the greatest Number of Votes for President shall be the President."
Where in there does it say, Mike can say "I don't like the results, I want to send them back to the states. I believe there was fraud."
To the conservatives who believe in the Constitution, now is your chance to stand up and be counted.
Originalism, count me in. It means what it says.
So, Mike, Mr. Vice President, just hang in there. They said we can count on Mike. All of us can count on the Vice President.
You're going to do the right thing. You're going to do the constitutional thing. You got a son who flies F-35s. You got a son-in- law who flies F-18s. They're out there flying, so that we can get it right here.
There are people dying, to my good friend from Illinois, to make sure we have a chance to argue among ourselves, and when it's over, it is over. It is over.
The final thing, Joe Biden, I've traveled the world with Joe. I hoped he lost. I prayed he would lose. He won. He's the legitimate President of the United States.
I cannot convince people, certain groups, by my words, but I will tell you by my actions that maybe I, among any - above all others, in this body, need to say this. Joe Biden and Kamala Harris are lawfully elected, and will become the President, and the Vice President, of the United States, on January the 20th.
(AUDIENCE APPLAUSE)
PENCE: Majority Leader?
MCCONNELL: Mr. President, I yield back the balance of our time.
PENCE: All time has expired. The question is shall the objection submitted by the gentleman from Arizona, Mr. Gosar, and the Senator from Texas, Mr. Cruz, and Others be sustained?
(OFF-MIKE)
PENCE: Is there a second?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There is.
PENCE: There is.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Clerk will call the roll.
PENCE: Clerk will call the roll.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Baldwin?
SEN. TAMMY BALDWIN (D-WI): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Barrasso?
SEN. JOHN BARRASSO (R-WY): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Bennet?
SEN. MICHAEL BENNET (D-CO): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Blackburn?
SEN. MARSHA BLACKBURN (R-TN): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Blumenthal?
SEN. RICHARD BLUMENTHAL (D-CT): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Blunt?
SEN. ROY BLUNT (R-MO): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Booker?
SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): No. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Boozman?
SEN. JOHN BOOZMAN (R-AR): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Braun?
SEN. MIKE BRAUN (R-IN): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Brown?
SEN. SHERROD BROWN (D-OH): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Burr?
SEN. RICHARD BURR (R-NC): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Cantwell?
SEN. MARIA CANTWELL (D-WA): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mrs. Capito?
SEN. SHELLEY MOORE CAPITO (R-WV): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Cardin?
SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Carper?
SEN. TOM CARPER (D-DE): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Casey?
SEN. BOB CASEY JR. (D-PA): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Cassidy?
SEN. BILL CASSIDY (R-LA): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Collins?
SEN. SUSAN COLLINS (R-ME): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Coons?
SEN. CHRIS COONS (D-DE): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Cornyn?
SEN. JOHN CORNYN (R-TX): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ms. Cortez Masto?
SEN. CATHERINE CORTEZ MASTO (D-NV): No.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Mr. Cotton?
SEN. TOM COTTON (R-AR): No.
