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Congress Certifies Biden Victory After Deadly Insurrection At U.S. Capitol; Rep. Grace Meng (D-NY) Describes Yesterday's Mob On The Capitol; Massive Breach Of U.S. Capitol Raises Questions About Security Failures. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 07, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST (via Cisco Webex): Well, I hope they're ostracized within the party. They made a choice, which was to side with this insurrection and with this mob and with this president, and with this big lie.

I was discussing this last night and my question is the same this morning, which is who is Josh Hawley to question the wisdom of the Supreme Court, which didn't look at the cases in Pennsylvania -- didn't take them because they didn't find them to be meritorious at all for them to get involved? There were 60-plus challenges -- allegations made that were all dismissed by the courts -- Republican- appointed judges, Democratic-appointed judges.

Who is he to question the wisdom of those courts? Someone who knows better who weaponized his excellent education as a lawyer, who was a clerk on the Supreme Court. Who engaged in the lie that somehow it is Congress' role? That in that body they have the right to overturn an election? He wanted to play it cute and to register his protest for his political ambition.

There is no business for Congress to overturn the will of the people. That's not how it works. That's not how it should ever work and that's not where it was appropriate.

A conservative from Missouri who believes in state rights who wants to overturn the Electoral College? His colleagues didn't agree. He was drowned out.

But he's a dangerous political actor because he's smart, he knows better, but he'll do whatever it takes to advance his career. We'll see what happens now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Knowledge without goodness, David, is dangerous. An education doesn't make you a decent person and I think that is something that we learned very easily with watching Josh Hawley last night.

We did hear from Congressman Dan Kildee from Michigan overnight -- his reaction to the Republican lawmakers who continued to try to overthrow the results of the election -- listen. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN KILDEE (D-MI): Those members of Congress who supported this specious attack on the Electoral College vote will have their names permanently written in ink and everyone should know those names.

I will never look at my colleagues who voted for these challenges, who supported these challenges, who fueled this insanity -- I will never be able to look at them the same. And that includes some of my Michigan colleagues that I could not look in the eye today when we were huddled in a safe place. I could not look them in the eye with any degree of respect.

I hope we remember those names forever.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Wow. There they are. Those are the faces of the U.S. senators who even after the insurrection voted to overturn the results of the election.

TEXT: Ted Cruz, Josh Hawley, Cynthia Lummis, Roger Marshall, Rick Scott, Tommy Tuberville, Cindy Hyde-Smith.

BERMAN: And, Maggie, a sort of addendum to this for those who have sided with the president on this issue over the last several weeks, and that includes David Perdue of Georgia and Kelly Loeffler of Georgia, both defeated.

You have some reporting the president didn't even care. The president was glad they lost. Explain that.

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, THE NEW YORK TIMES (via Cisco Webex): The president was telling people yesterday that he was happy that both of them had been defeated because, in his mind, they didn't defend him hard enough even though both of them welded themselves to him. They gave, albeit shortly before he was coming to a rally in support of them where he spent 99 percent of it talking about himself and the -- and his own election, and called for it to be overturned and making all kinds of false claims about what had happened -- they did support his effort initially.

They said they were going to object. Loeffler did not; Perdue's term in Congress had expired already. But -- or in the Senate had expired already.

But yes, the president is seeing this as he sees everything through the lens of how it impacts him and as some personal grievance. And that's really all he's talking about right now.

You know, he spent much of yesterday in the White House resisting calls from his own advisers to do more to try to quell the violence. Some had suggested he needed to get the National Guard involved and do more. He was resisting those requests. One note I want to add to what David was talking about in terms of law

enforcement at the Capitol. We have reporting at the "Times" that there were concerns among DOD leadership after these rolling waves of unrest last year and after there was such an aggressive show of force on June first in Lafayette Square about involving the National Guard or anything military -- any way in looking at something related to the election. That added to the delay yesterday. It's not the only cause but it was part of it.

This is where we are at. There is -- the president did not openly say yes, please go be violent, but he did everything but that yesterday and in the weeks leading up to it.

GREGORY: Can I make a point?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Yes, please, Commissioner. I'm sorry -- David.

GREGORY: Yes, I just think --

CAMEROTA: Go quickly, yes.

GREGORY: First of all, that is -- that is, again, the damage that the president has done to our institutions. His misuse and misallocation of resources during those Black Lives Matter protests as a show of intimidation to peaceful protests, even if there were certain pockets of people who were destroying federal property -- that overreaction -- gross overreaction means that when it was necessary to protect a federal building, the institution was paralyzed by that inaction.

[07:35:24]

And something else that Maggie said I think is really important because I think her reporting, frankly, over the sweep of this presidency --

CAMEROTA: Yes.

GREGORY: -- has been so important for the country to understand how the president thinks and we've been talking about on this program since 2016.

Donald Trump has zero respect for the institution of the presidency -- that matters. Time and time again we've seen it. He doesn't respect institutions because he just cares about himself.

That's so dangerous because then you don't care about the fact that what you say as president matters. You don't care about institutions. You don't care about a temple of democracy that is the U.S. Capitol.

We'll be ostracizing the world for that kind of behavior and that's what fuels people around the country who are already struggling with their lack of confidence in institutions in their lives. Washington can and should be much better. For all the difficulties here it should be much better than this. CAMEROTA: Commissioner Ramsey, our apologies. We are out of time. Our

producers are yelling at us in our ear to wrap. We will speak to you again very soon. Thank you all.

CHARLES RAMSEY, FORMER COMMISSIONER, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT, D.C.: OK.

BERMAN: All right.

Terrifying hours for lawmakers barricaded, crouching inside the U.S. Capitol. They've told us they feared for their lives.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:30]

CAMEROTA: A violent pro-Trump mob stormed the U.S. Capitol as lawmakers were counting the electoral votes confirming Joe Biden's victory. Capitol police had to use furniture to barricade the chamber doors. They had to draw their guns. Lawmakers were trapped inside before being evacuated to hide in a bunker.

Joining us now is one of those lawmakers, Democratic Congresswoman Grace Meng. Congresswoman, what a day and night you've had.

And I just want to start by reading the message that you sent in the middle of all of this. You wrote, "There were more officers here for Black Lives Matter protests. Protesters, today, broke into the People's House, tore down barriers, damaged property, and fired shots.

I've never been scared for my life during BLM protests. I was terrified for my life today. I said goodbye to my family and I'm still hiding."

Can you just tell us what those hours were like?

REP. GRACE MENG (D-NY) (via Skype): Well, thank you for having me.

It was very frightening. I was actually in a room that was close to the House chambers but not in the House chambers. And when I was in this room I started hearing that buildings, like Cannon, were being -- the Cannon House Office Building were being evacuated. I started hearing alerts on the announcement system to stay away from windows and doors.

And within about 10 or 15 minutes, the room that I was in, I started hearing a lot of stomping and chanting right outside. And I happened to have the T.V. on and I realized that they were literally right outside my door.

And so, I was really frightened. I did not feel that someone could come and get me in time had they been able to break through, so I barricaded. I moved a lot of furniture that I was physically able to and tried to barricade the door.

CAMEROTA: And how long did you have to stay like that? MENG: I waited for a few hours -- I think over five hours.

CAMEROTA: And when you say that you said goodbye to your family, what was that conversation?

MENG: Well, I texted them and I did a quick phone call. I didn't really want to talk out loud. I had to turn off the lights and turn off any sound. I was watching the T.V. on mute. And I just texted them that I loved them.

CAMEROTA: And what did they say?

MENG: Well, they sent a message back. We did it via voice notes because we didn't want to talk too loudly. And they said the same thing and then we said that we were praying for each other.

CAMEROTA: And what did you think? How did you think this was going to end?

MENG: I had no clue, you know. I had seen and heard that people might have weapons and that they were very angry at lawmakers on both sides of the aisle. And I honestly did not fully expect that they would be so -- they would be able to, in such a quick amount of time, be able to break through the barriers and come into the People's House. That the pace of them being able to infiltrate our Capitol was not expected.

CAMEROTA: Yes, by anybody, apparently.

Who do you blame for what happened yesterday?

MENG: Well, I think that we have a president who has never fully understood that he should be using his platform to do good and to help people instead of constantly being obsessed about how he looks and what his image is. And I -- and I really think that he did not do anything until it was way too late to tell these folks to taper down and to be peaceful.

CAMEROTA: You said -- you tweeted that President Trump must resign or be removed. What do you want to see happen today?

[07:45:00]

MENG: Well, I know that we are looking at options, whether it's with the vice president and the cabinet invoking the 25th Amendment, whether it's impeachment.

I know that there are only 13 days left but these dangerous words and actions by this president and how it impacted people across the Capitol yesterday, from members to staff and the to the public who might have been around, it's unacceptable and something must be done. A clear message that those actions were wrong must be sent.

CAMEROTA: And if not, what do you think is going to happen in the next 13 days? MENG: Well, I really want to see people being held accountable. I haven't heard too much. There were people who died. A woman died from being injured on the floor of our House chamber. Property was damaged. Property was stolen. People were fearing for their lives, making calls to their families to say goodbye.

A message must be sent. There must be ramifications, there must be consequences for yesterday's actions.

CAMEROTA: How did you get out? What happened when you finally got out?

MENG: The Capitol police came to get me. I lost count -- I think it was a little after five -- five to six hours later.

CAMEROTA: And did you see your colleagues? And what happened when you were together again?

MENG: I did not see them until we were voting again. We still stayed separate and, you know, sheltered in place.

CAMEROTA: And last, I mean, what was that moment like when even after all of this -- even after the terror, you all reconvened to vote?

MENG: Well, people were scared. People were emotional. And I think most of all, not just because they were scared for their lives but people were so disappointed and heartbroken that something like this that happened in our Congress -- in the People's House.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Congresswoman Grace Meng, thank you very much. We're sorry that you had to endure that. And thank you for talking us through everything that happened to you yesterday.

MENG: Thanks for having me. Be safe, all.

CAMEROTA: You, too.

MENG: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: How could such a massive security breach happen at the U.S. Capitol? We talk to the former chief of the U.S. Capitol Police about it, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:10]

BERMAN: For weeks, President Trump had been calling January sixth a day of reckoning. He'd been talking about this for weeks. Yesterday morning, he directly told the mob go -- walk to the Capitol. So how is it that once they got there they were able just to walk in the doors?

This raises serious questions about security and the security failures that we saw on Capitol Hill yesterday. Joining me now, Terrance Gainer. He's the former chief of the U.S. Capitol Police and he once served as a sergeant at arms at the Capitol. Thanks so much for being with us.

How do you explain this?

TERRANCE GAINER, FORMER CHIEF, U.S. CAPITOL POLICE: Well, on first blush, it is shocking that it happened and it's apparent that there were some failures. So it's clear to me that the police were outnumbered and they apparently underestimated the strength and the level of violence in that crowd and overestimated their ability to control the crowd.

So once we lost the plaza out there on the steps, and then the different platforms, and then the balconies, we were in a pitch battle for the outside of the building and that violated all the rules and procedures we had. No one was supposed to get that close to the doors and windows of the building. So that has to be thoroughly investigated, no doubt about it.

BERMAN: Failure of planning? I mean, how much of it do you think is a failure of foresight?

GAINER: Well, I think that's going to have to be examined. Clearly, there were problems. It's very self-evident. I don't know what else to say. We need to thoroughly examine how that happened.

It was until the Metropolitan Police Department of Washington surged their assets to get up there to take care of the outside of the building while the Capitol police were trying to clear the inside. But it was a slow, ugly process. It shocked us all. But the Capitol police, on the inside, at least were able to secure the members and the staff, notwithstanding how fearful it was for them.

BERMAN: How do you explain the difference in treatment of this group -- this mob -- with the protesters that we saw over the summer with the Black Lives Matter protesters? We saw troops swarming them. We saw tear gas fired outside the White House. How do you explain just the apparent difference in treatment yesterday?

GAINER: Well, there is an actual difference in how the situation was handled in the Lafayette Square where there was an overwhelming use of the military and some outside police agencies without the coordination of the local police. And we all know that was mishandled by them.

So I'm pretty sure that the Capitol police were trying to do something a little softer as we tried to welcome protesters up there, but it got out of hand. But I don't think it's fair to compare and say that we were rougher on one group of people and easier on this group. I think it's a little more complicated and deeper than that.

But we failed. We did not secure the Capitol and people need to be held responsible and explain what went on.

BERMAN: Did you ever think you were going to see, you know, an insurrectionist sitting in the U.S. Senate in the chair occupied by the president pro-tem? I mean, is that something you ever thought you would see?

GAINER: No, no. We drilled and practiced for a lot of things. And definitely, the focus is on armed terrorists, so this is just different.

And one of the things you could see was that long guns and handguns in trying to deal with crowds are not the best tactics because there's very limited use of that. What we probably needed is less long guns and we needed a lot more riot control batons that would help control that mob. But we also needed more people.

So how we underestimated, again, how violent they were going to be and the size, and how we lost both the east front and the west front of the Capitol need to be dissected.

BERMAN: You know, how do you know that they weren't armed -- the people who came inside that building? They very well could have been armed. I mean, that's what to me is stunning here.

GAINER: Well, I'd be like you're right.

BERMAN: It could have been worse.

GAINER: I don't know -- I don't know that they were armed and they had sticks and flags and other things they carried. And that's why when after the police got control of the interior, you have to do a complete sweep of the Capitol like they did, and render it safe. You have to bring K-9 dogs in there, bomb detection dogs in there, and they did that.

[07:55:10]

And ultimately, the Capitol was secured so the business could carry on, so that's a plus. But there's a whopping minus that they got in there.

And again, I don't know how else to explain it. It's heartbreaking when I know the goodness and hard work that the Capitol police do, and the Senate sergeant at arms and the House sergeant at arms. They will analyze this and make sure it doesn't happen again. But it was a failure and I apologize on behalf of the security people. We failed.

BERMAN: Well, this wasn't you. It wasn't you. I mean, you know, you're a former. I mean, this wasn't you. It's nice of you to stand up and apologize now.

Do you think there are people whose jobs are at stake?

GAINER: I think that needs to be reviewed by all the powers that be. And God knows there will be enough people up there reviewing -- enough committees and working that.

But what I'm saying is each of us who have had these positions, whether it's in a city or at the Capitol, we lay the groundwork on the hiring of the people, the training of the people, the policy, the equipment, getting the intelligence, and always practicing. So it's a long line of ownership and responsibility in this thing.

Ultimately, the chief and the two Senate sergeants at arms do have a lot to answer for. They're good people. This went bad and it shouldn't have happened.

BERMAN: Terrance Gainer, former chief of the U.S. Capitol Police, we appreciate your time helping us understand what happened and how you saw it play out. Thank you so much for being with us.

CAMEROTA: John, we're just getting some breaking news that Mick Mulvaney, the overseas envoy named by President Trump -- you'll remember, of course, Mick Mulvaney has been a big part of this administration -- that he has just resigned.

That adds to a list of resignations that we've seen happen overnight. Everybody from the first lady's longtime friend, confidante, chief of staff, former press secretary, Stephanie Grisham. She also resigned.

They are -- it's starting. Where we had heard yesterday that people were considering resigning. And now, with Mick Mulvaney, this makes the, I believe, fourth resignation.

BERMAN: Yes. The former chief of staff Mick Mulvaney. Mark Meadows, the ball's in your court. How are you going to handle it this morning? Mike Pence, how are you going to handle it? National Security Adviser O'Brien, how are you going to handle it?

CAMEROTA: Right now, we want to take a moment to update you on the other deadly crisis facing the United States -- the worsening coronavirus crisis. Three thousand eight hundred sixty-five deaths were reported on Wednesday alone. That's a new record.

More than 132,000 people wake up in the hospital this morning with coronavirus. That's also a record.

Vaccinations are not meeting the promises the administration made for 12 -- sorry, for 20 million people, plus. Only 5.3 million Americans have been vaccinated. Only 30 percent of the total doses distributed have been administered.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is a new day. It is an important day.

This morning, we can report that the insurrection failed. The radicalized mob that outgoing President Trump dispatched to storm the U.S. Capitol managed to gain access to lawmakers' chambers and managed to get four rioters killed in the process.

But they did not succeed in stopping Joe Biden from becoming the next president. Vice President Mike Pence finally read and formalized Joe Biden's win just around 4:00 a.m. this morning. (BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MIKE PENCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Within that whole number, a majority is 270. The votes for President of the United States are as follows. Joseph R. Biden, Jr. of the state of Delaware has received 306 votes.

The announcement of the state of the vote by the president of the Senate shall be deemed a sufficient declaration of the persons elected President and Vice President of the United States, each for the term beginning on the 20th day of January 2021.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: And even after the deadly chaos at the Capitol, seven Republican senators joined with more than 100 House Republicans to try to overturn the election results. Those are their pictures on your screen. Memorize their faces. And wait until we show you the faces of the people they sided with.

Can America endure 13 more days of a Donald Trump presidency, and will it have to? This morning, sources tell CNN that some cabinet members have begun preliminary discussions about invoking the 25th Amendment to remove President Donald Trump from office.

Trump did release a statement this morning committing to an orderly transition, but a source tells CNN the statement was merely meant to staunch the wave of resignations that we are seeing.