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Congress Certifies Biden Victory After Deadly Insurrection At U.S. Capitol; Rep. Jason Crow (D-CO) and Rep. Susan Wild (D-PA) are Interviewed About the Deadly Insurrection at U.S. Capitol; Mick Mulvaney Resigns as Special Envoy to Northern Ireland. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 07, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: -- did release a statement this morning committing to an orderly transition, but a source tells CNN that statement was merely meant to staunch the wave of resignations that we are seeing from the administration. As we just reported, former White House Chief of Staff Mick Mulvaney just resigned as a special envoy to Northern Ireland moments ago.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Let me just read you some of the things he said, because they're rather stunning. He said "I called Mike Pompeo last night to let him know, to tell him that I would be resigning from that. I just -- I can't do it. I can't stay," Mulvaney said. He said "I wouldn't be surprised to see more of my friends resign over the course of the next 24 hours." So buckle up.

Sources tell CNN that during the deadly insurrection the president was, quote, borderline enthusiastic about the attempted coup. He did not want to condemn his supporters. He is said to be so furious with Vice President Mike Pence now that he banned the V.P.'s chief of staff Marc Short from the West Wing. Marc Short might be on this list of resignations we're seeing. A former White House official tells CNN the president is out of his mind.

This morning four people are dead from this event yesterday, including one woman who was shot inside the capitol. Obviously, these images simply shocking to see, the armed standoff on the House floor. Lawmakers obviously in fear, reasonable fear. One told us she thought she was about to be a victim of a mass shooting incident. You can see the rioters sitting in the chair in the U.S. Senate, that's the president pro tem's or the vice president's seat inside the Senate chamber. Throughout the morning we're going to speak with more lawmakers who were there, also going to try to figure out how this huge security breach could happen.

In the middle of it all was our senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju who joins us live now from Capitol Hill. Manu, I can't tell you how glad I am to see you this morning safely doing your job reporting, and there is a lot to report this morning. MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, no question

about it. It was quite an experience, frightening experience for anybody who was in the capitol. People didn't know what was happening. The moment that there were scenes of protesters, demonstrators, rioters, trespassers in the United States capitol, just feet from where senators were gathering and from where House members were gathering, it created much panic among the law enforcement on Capitol Hill, among the senators themselves, the House members as well.

And you mentioned one member you spoke to. I spoke to several also who were in their respective chambers during the lockdown. One of them was Raul Ruiz, a congressman, who told me that he was in the House chamber during that armed standoff. What happened was one of the demonstrators broke the glass door of -- one of the doors that enters the House floor. And at that moment several security, capitol police who were in the House chamber drew their firearms, told the individuals to stop. Ruiz told me that he heard what he thought was a gunshot go off, he didn't know what it was, but something very loud. And he said to me, he said this is the closest I got to thinking there is a possibility I could die. And he said the members were all talking about what would happen if this individual had an AR-15 or a semi-automatic weapon and could open fire.

That was the mentality throughout Capitol Hill yesterday. This mob that could have been armed, many were probably were armed in creating damage and havoc throughout the capitol. And I will just tell you, John, I was walking in the capitol this morning on my way over here, and there are still remnants of this riot throughout this building, garbage, debris, broken windows, shattered glass. You can see the ground is still slippery because some of these rioters took the fire extinguishers off and shot them throughout the building. So you're seeing how Capitol Hill is rebuilding moving forward after that tense, violent scene unfolded yesterday, guys.

CAMEROTA: What happened yesterday doesn't wash off. It doesn't wash off. Even after they are able to get the debris and all the damage that you're talking about, Manu, out of the capitol, we're not going to forget what happened yesterday. And I know you tried to ask Vice President Pence about the insurrection, and we have that moment. So let's watch this for a second.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Sir, does the president have some responsibility for what happened today?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Mr. Vice President, does the president need to speak up forcefully against what happened today?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Absolutely silence, like he is a statue in Statuary Hall there. So did you ever get an answer?

RAJU: No. Pence was not answering any questions, and this is when he was walking from the Senate over to the House after that first objection to the Arizona electoral votes were dispensed with and they had to move back to the joint session of Congress to consider the other states' electoral votes.

[08:05:00]

And then afterwards they had another objection by Senator Josh Hawley and the House members to the Pennsylvania votes, then they went back over to the Senate. I tried to ask him questions there as well. He wasn't answering.

Now, Pence did condemn the violence, did condemn the rioters when he was in the Senate chamber, but he never condemned the words of his boss, President Donald Trump, and Trump inciting these individuals to come to the capitol and act the way they did. There was no real condemnation. But there was from a number of Republicans who I spoke to, Senate Republicans, who are very, very critical of the president's rhetoric, people like Senator John Thune, the number two Republican raising, some serious concerns. But the vice president himself staying quiet about the president's actions amidst all of this as the president was demanding he do something completely out of bounds and unconstitutional, which was to essentially throw out the electoral votes and essentially try to declare the election somehow not valid. But Pence did not do that of course. At 4:00 a.m. Congress certified that Joe Biden won this election.

BERMAN: Manu Raju, once again thank you for your work there. We are glad you're safe. Keep on reporting. Keep us posted as to what you hear today.

Joining us now, CNN political commentator Van Jones, CNN White House correspondent John Harwood, and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, he's the former deputy director of the FBI. And John, I just want to start with you on the breaking news, which is that Mick Mulvaney, former White House chief of staff who up until a few minutes ago was the special envoy to Northern Ireland, he has quit. He says, I just can't do it based on what he saw yesterday. I'm out. He went on to say -- do we have the sound? I want to play some of the sound from what he said, because it's fascinating. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MICK MULVANEY, INCOMING ACTING WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: I called Pompeo, I'm the special envoy to Northern Ireland, and it's a small job, it's a part-time gig, but it's all I've got in the administration. I called Mike Pompeo last night, left him a note telling him I would be resigning from that. I can't -- I can't do it. I can't stay. It's a nothing thing. It doesn't affect the outcome, it doesn't affect the transition, but it's what I've got, right, and it's a position I really enjoy doing. But you can't do it. And I wouldn't be surprised to see more of my friends resign over the course of the next 24 to 48 hours.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: He says he's not surprised to hear talk about the 25th Amendment, John. He says he's not surprised that members of the House were talking about impeachment yesterday. What he was most surprised about was the fact that they went home without debating impeachment on the floor because he doesn't think anything should be off the table. That's from the president's former chief of staff, John.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, right, but I've got to tell you, that sounds to me like a bit of a joke. Alisyn was talking a few moments ago about how the stain doesn't wash out. For Mick Mulvaney to announce at this stage, 13 days left in the presidency, this kind of nothing job that he has, and make a big to do about how I'm resigning now in protest, that is an attempt to cleanse his reputation.

Let's just remember, Mick Mulvaney is the guy who sat on the stage when he was White House chief of staff at the Conservative Political Action Committee and talked about the coronavirus as the latest Democratic hoax to bring down the president. We are now at the end of -- at the beginning of 2021, and 350,000 Americans have been killed. This pandemic is raging. He understands the nature of Donald Trump. Everyone in that White House has understood the nature of Donald Trump.

What is happening now is that it is becoming more and more obvious to more and more people, it's been clear for a while, that the president of the United States is mentally ill, that he does not recognize and is not capable of acting upon the difference between truth and lies, between right and wrong. And to the extent that people actually still have influence and power in the White House, which Mick Mulvaney does not, I'm not sure it does anyone any good except those individuals for them to resign, because for 13 days left, if, in fact, their conscience is triggered by what they're seeing, better for the United States of America for them to stay and try to stop bad things from happening than to raise their hand and say out of my sense of morality I am quitting this job with 13 days to go.

CAMEROTA: Andrew McCabe, you remember the beginning of the Trump presidency, of course. You were in the FBI. It began with American carnage. It began with the president at his inauguration describing his worldview, the way he saw America, as American carnage. And it was bound to end this way. It ends with American carnage. It ends with an armed insurrection. And if you just tracked the rhetoric all along and the actions, of course it was bound to end this way. This isn't a surprise. Yes, it was a shock yesterday, a huge shock to see it, but it wasn't surprising. This is what he's called for. How do you see it as a law enforcement mind?

[08:10:00]

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Alisyn, I remember that day, I remember that statement during his speech in his own inauguration like it was yesterday. I sat in a darkened and pretty much empty J. Edgar Hoover Building, my office overlooking Pennsylvania Avenue, and heard him utter those words. And to see yesterday those words turned -- were a prediction of what he would render in this country.

I've spent countless hours in my career working with people like the Capitol Police Department, MPD, to protect our monuments to democracy, to protect our national monuments, to protect the capitol. I was involved in -- I oversaw the FBI role in President Obama's first inauguration, countless State of the Union operations, national security special events. To see that capitol overrun by a mob of domestic terrorists, and that is absolutely what they are, is sickening. It's absolutely repulsive, and this president should be held responsible for that. He is responsible for it. And the Congress should take that up in an impeachment inquiry and vote immediately, immediately.

BERMAN: Van Jones, the inspirational leader of the insurrectionists is in the White House this morning. What are your concerns for the next 13 days?

VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm very concerned. Sometimes you wind up where you're headed. I think every stop along the train -- but we've got 13 more days. And you now have a president that is out of legal options. There's no more ceremonies to abuse, there's no more rubber stamp rituals for him to try to hijack. And he still has 13 days, he still has the ability to declare a national emergency, he still has a nuclear arsenal, he has got a lot of cards left to play that are much, much worse than what he has already done.

I want to underscore, if you have influence, if you have a job in the administration, don't quit now. The state is already there. What you need to be able to do is figure out what can you do to try to put some restraints in there. With Nixon, there was unwritten rules that you wouldn't let Nixon do certain things because you knew he was on his way out the door. This is the kind of situation that we're in.

Also, I just think if you take a step back, there's a pattern here. There is a clean right and there is a dirty right. There is a clean right with whom I disagree on policy issues, et cetera, but they don't resort to violence, they don't resort to demagoguery, they don't resort to playing footsie with conspiracy theorists and white nationalists. There is a clean right. Paul Ryan might be in that category most good days.

And then you have a dirty right that's willing to traffic in violence and lies, et cetera, et cetera. And people who are conservatives and Republicans need to make a choice. You can't be -- have one foot in one camp, one in the other, and hop back and forth like it's a game of Double Dutch. We are in a real crisis now, and you've got to figure out what kind of conservative are you really, and take a stand and snuff out what you just saw, because that thing you saw out there last night could grow in this country regardless of what Trump does, and Trump himself could do worse than he's done. So we're not off the hook yet, and we're not going to be off the hook until Joe Biden is president.

CAMEROTA: Andy McCabe, obviously there was a huge security breach. Will there be justice now? There's videotape. We can see the faces of these people. This is still President Trump's Justice Department for the next 13 days. Will these people be arrested that we're seeing on camera? What will the FBI do? MCCABE: Well, there absolutely should be. There are three matters

that should be vigorously investigated beginning today, and the first is identifying, arresting, and prosecuting every single person that you possibly can who entered that capitol building yesterday. The FBI should dedicate resources to it. There should be a task force with the Capitol Police Department, the Justice Department should lead it, and that should move forward.

The second thing is a 9/11 Commission style investigation to figure out how we suffered this massive failure of law enforcement leadership yesterday. The job of the capitol police is to protect the capitol, and they failed. Those are good people on the ground who were overwhelmed by a massive crowd, but let's call a spade a spade. That was a massive failure, and we need to get to the bottom of how that happened.

[08:15:02]

And, of course, the third investigation is of the president himself. The president who participated in, who encouraged, who directed a seditious conspiracy to attack his own government and we all watched it happen on national television, that should be investigated and everyone should be held accountable.

There is an essential message of accountability that needs to be sent out to the world to explain who we are and what we're about as a nation because, right now, there's a lot of questions about that.

BERMAN: You know, just throw one more thing into this, John Harwood. The president can pardon all the people this morning if he wants to, all the people who stormed the capitol.

CAMEROTA: Doesn't he need to know their names?

BERMAN: He -- actually, no, frankly. He could sit there and say like all the Vietnam -- the people who dodged the draft, like Carter did. He can grand them amnesty.

He could grant them amnesty, John, this morning. That is one more reason why I think it's not unreasonable to have a serious discussion about what to do for the next 13 days.

HARWOOD: No question about it. He could pardon the people who desecrated the capitol offices, the people who proudly posted selfies of themselves with the sign outside Pelosi's office or their feet up on the desk of the Senate chamber, the president of the Senate's chair, the head of the chamber. Yes. He could do that.

He could pardon Rudy Giuliani who yesterday said let's have a trial by combat as this thing was getting under way. He could pardon himself as the leader of that seditious mob yesterday as the inciter of that seditious mob.

But I tell you what he can't do, he cannot pardon himself from, say, the investigation under way by Cy Vance, the Manhattan district attorney. And one of the consequences of this disgraceful end of his presidency is he is extinguishing any incentives that people who will retain power to go after him, like Cy Vans and Tish James in New York, the attorney general, extinguishing any incentives they have to say let's move on and get on with the business of the country.

The odds of him getting prosecuted pursuant to the investigations now under way in New York have gone up significantly.

CAMEROTA: Van, there were so many disgusting things that happened yesterday that we witnessed, but one of the most sickening things was when our minds harkened back to this summer and thinking about what happened to those peaceful protesters in Lafayette Square, they were pepper sprayed before curfew, they were pepper sprayed by the National Guard or the law enforcement that President Trump and William Barr had called out before they were doing anything wrong and then to see the treatment that this marauding mob got or didn't get, I mean, how do we square that?

JONES: Every young person I have spoken to, especially young people of color, got the message loud and clear that they can be beaten, arrested and worse for jaywalking, for just being an African-American in a store and yet you can have a band of white traitors go and tear up the capitol building and walk out and were escorted out. They basically were escorted in and escorted out.

None of those people should be -- they should all be in jail right now. If I right now or anybody that I know were to go and just literally push their way past a Capitol guard today or a week ago, we would be in jail. And so, the fact that all those people -- now you've got to try to figure out who they are. You had them. They were all in one place.

Usually, you're going to see city buses lined up from here to -- for three miles, you're going to see plastic handcuffs of protesters, political protesters, doing anything and they get thrown to the ground or sometimes peacefully arrested, but nobody leaves on foot. Everybody leaves with their little hands in plastic handcuffs in the back of big city buses heading off to jail. That's the price of a protest.

If you are black, if you are a progressive, the price of protesting -- I don't mean a riot, I just mean civil disobedience, just sitting down on the steps and they tell you to get up and you don't get up, the price of that is you go to jail for a night. Everybody knows that in D.C.

And so, to watch a complete lawless band of traitors and insurrectionists go and tear up the capitol, bring guns to the capitol, put their feet up on people's stuff, take pictures of emails, walk out possibly with all kind -- we don't know what they walked out with. We don't know if they took sensitive documents.

We have no idea. They were walking past cops, nobody knew if they had guns in their pockets, if they had sensitive information.

[08:20:02]

And now those people are eating pancakes someplace. It is an unbelievable statement about race in this country, it's an

unbelievable statement about what it means when you have strong man tactics from a would be authoritarian who has now which happened whipped up his own private street mob that can do what it wants to with impunity. This is banana republic stuff, and it's very dangerous.

You just sent the best message or the worst to a whole generation, black, white, brown or otherwise that there is a double standard like you would not believe. Tens of thousands of people went to jail protesting around George Floyd who did all of them did way worse than the worst than saw in the seat of power and 13 of those people went to jail last night, tens of thousands of people went to jail for George Floyd. That's all -- you just taught a generation about the need for real reform in this country.

CAMEROTA: Van Jones, Andrew McCabe, John Harwood, thank you all very much.

And so, members of Congress were in fear for their lives as these domestic terrorists stormed the U.S. Capitol. The pictures are unbelievable, they're sickening and we have two lawmakers who were captured in this dramatic photo will join us next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK0

BERMAN: Breaking news. Congress affirming Joe Biden as the winner of the presidential election after a failed coup attempt.

[08:25:05]

Four people are dead after domestic terrorists stormed the U.S. capitol. Lawmakers forced to duck for cover in the House chamber. In this picture, you see Congressman Jason Crow. You also see Congresswoman Susan Wild.

They both join me now.

Thank you so much for being with us this morning. I'm so glad you are both safe.

Congressman Crow, you were an Iraq War combat vet. When did you realize yesterday that your safety was at risk?

REP. JASON CROW (D-CO): Well, as soon as the Capitol Police started to shut the doors and barricade us in and stack furniture to prevent the mob from gaining entry into the House chamber. And we were in the process of being evacuated and then that evacuation stopped when we were closed off and we were trapped. There was about a 15 to 20-minute period there where we were surrounded and had no way out.

And I haven't felt that way in over 15 years since I was a Ranger in Iraq and Afghanistan where I thought there was a possibility I would have to fight my way out.

BERMAN: You haven't felt that way for 15 years since you were in service as a Ranger. Did you have a plan to fight your way out? What was that?

CROW: Well, you know, in situations like that, I kind of reverted to ranger mode which was just focusing on what I could do to actually try to get us out of that. So I went around and started locking and making sure the doors were locked and closed, moving some of the other members away from the doors, directed the other members to remove their pins so they weren't identifiable in case the mob did break through,

I had a pen in my pocket that I could use as a weapon, I was looking for other weapons as well and I was coordinating with the Capitol Police to try to find a way out to for us.

BERMAN: You had a pen in your pocket to use as a weapon if you wanted to. God, I wish I never had to hear a U.S. congressman tell me that about a day in the Capitol.

Congresswoman Wild, to you. First of all, I have to remark, and forgive me, are you wearing what you were wearing last night? Have you not had a chance to change at this point?

REP. SUSAN WILD (D-PA): No, it may look the same. It is a different jacket.

BERMAN: Okay. I was just asking because it's been such an ordeal. I think a lot of people have been up all night literally and figuratively still reacting to the emotion of this moment.

We see the picture of you lying on the ground there. Just tell us what was going through your head.

WILD: What was going through my head was frankly terror. Unlike Jason, I don't have combat experience, I'm very grateful could have been in the foxhole with Jason, it's the closest I have ever come to something like that.

And I will tell you that what's -- it's -- it was a scene of total confusion and chaos, at least for somebody who had never been in that kind of experience. It gives me real empathy for people who have been in terrorist situations or emergency situations because there's so much pandemonium going on.

Thankfully, I had the good fortune to have Jason Crow right behind me bringing some sense of calm to the situation.

BERMAN: If I can ask both of you to look forward a little bit here, Donald Trump is the inspirational leader of what happened yesterday. It was President Trump who told people to go to the capitol yesterday when he was speaking to them.

Congresswoman Wild, he has 13 more days in office. Do you feel safe with that scenario? Do you feel -- or how do you plan to address whether or not he should stay in office for those remaining 13 days?

WILD: Well, I've already spoken to people in leadership and asked that an investigation be launched immediately and I don't mean next week but immediately, hopefully it's already undergoing.

I will tell you that I went through a range obviously yesterday, I first felt fear and terror, but it moved quickly to anger, to anger at the circumstances that allowed this to happen. And that anger continued through the day.

I will tell you that I am very worried not for myself, but for the American people about the next couple of weeks and what that will bring. The fact that this president still has the nuclear codes and yet was taken off of Twitter is, you know, really remarkable to me. And yesterday just brought home how dangerous this situation is.

BERMAN: Congressman Crow, you were an impeachment manager. You've been through part of this before.

Do you think it's worth trying to go through something like this again with 13 days left?

CROW: Well, you know, the thing about Donald Trump and you said earlier he was the inspirational leader. Inspirational and leader are not words I tend to use with him. He is a tyrant, he is a dangerous man, he is an ill man and I said for a very long time that he needs to be removed from president because I saw this coming.

I'm not surprised about what happened and nobody should who has been paying attention to what's been happening for the last four years. This is the inevitable conclusion of Donald Trump.

The story right now in my book is a story of the enablers. The hundreds and thousands of people, the members of Congress who are traitors to their country after last night, the people in Trump's.

[08:30:00]