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Pelosi Tells Caucus On Call That There Is More Dem Support For 2nd Impeachment Than Last Time; CNN: Longtime Trump Aide Hope Hicks Considering Resigning; Some GOP Senators Try To Distance Themselves From Trump After Riot; Biden Supports Releasing Nearly All Available COVID-19 Vaccine Doses; President Trump Tweets He Is Skipping Biden's Inauguration. Aired 12:30-1p ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 12:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[12:30:00]

JOHN KING, CNN HOST: You don't want to impeach him, go on the record and vote to censure him.

SEN. PATRICK LEAHY (D-VT): Well, I suppose that, one, comments like Lindsey Graham and others, it's always somebody else's fault. They're the people that have enabled Donald Trump throughout all this. When we had our -- when we were all secluded in a safe place, also the senators during the riots in the Capitol, there's a lot of quiet talk amongst senators, many of them former prosecutors, like myself, Republicans and Democrats alike agreed President Trump committed crimes. Certainly Rudy Giuliani and others did too.

Why don't they have the courage? Stop trying to blame it on somebody else. There's one person to blame, is President Trump. He encouraged a riot, he encouraged criminal conduct. He seems to revel in this criminal conduct. Then, at the very least, his Cabinet should have the courage to stand up and remove him. They could do that today if they wanted to.

KING: Well, a Capitol Police officer -- forgive me for interrupting, Senator, but a Capitol Police officer, one of the people who you see every day, who protects you every day, is now dead, is now dead. You say the President is culpable of crimes. There's a conversation in the White House, the President asking his attorneys to see have the power to pardon himself.

Previously, we were having these conversations in the context of these other investigations we know are going on about the President and his organization. You're a former Chairman of the Judiciary Committee, you have a lot of experience, as you mentioned, you're a former prosecutor yourself. In your view, this is an unanswered, it's an unresolved Constitutional question. Can the President of United States pardon himself?

LEAHY: It depends. There's a strong question he cannot. But I'll tell you one thing, if the -- if it's a non-federal crime, if it's a state crime, if he's prosecuted by state authorities, then of course, he cannot pardon that. I face a lot of danger in New York already on tax matters and so forth. But on this, it can also be a question, when is the charge brought? Is a charge brought on January 21st? Then he have no power to pardon himself. It's not even an open question anymore whether it was a federal or state crime.

The fact is he did commit a crime. The fact is he did incite riots. And the people who are there, I'm amazed that so few of them arrested. I'm hoping that with the pictures they have, the more will be arrested. They should be prosecuted. And virtually every senator I talked with, Republicans or Democrats who have been former prosecutors, as I have, they all agree they should be prosecuted. They get very quiet, some of them, when I say yes, but what about the President?

KING: Senator Leahy grateful for your time today. I know you will be a chairman of a committee in the New Democratic Senate looking into just what happened to what needs to be done to protect the Capitol and other federal installations. We'll bring you back for that. The breaking news obviously took up our time today. We'll bring you back to have that conversation because it's an important one. Grateful for your time today, sir.

Up next for us, the new COVID numbers are bleak. And CNN has some exclusive new details of a new plan by the President-elect to speed up the vaccine rollout.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:38:04]

KING: Some breaking news to bring you here on CNN word this hour, one of the President's closest confidant Hope Hicks now considering resigning, that because of her unhappiness with the President's conduct this week, inciting that Capitol insurrection. Let's get straight to our reporter on the story, CNN's Kaitlan Collins. Kaitlan, what do you know?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, John, this would be significant if Hope Hicks did leave the White House because, of course, she is one of the President's top aides and closest competence. And we are told that she has discussed resigning, we're told that if she does make that decision, ultimately to do so, it would likely come within the next 48 hours or so that you would see that departure actually happen. And this would be more devastating and more of a blow to the President than so the departures you've seen so far, you know, with the Transportation Secretary or the Education Secretary, people that are obviously in the President's Cabinet but aren't working with him on a day-to-day basis, often on the phone with him in the Oval Office, like a Hope Hicks kind of figure is.

And we're told by sources she's been kind of checked out over the last few weeks ever since the election happened as the President has been pushing back on these results. She's not someone you've seen in the West Wing a ton though, of course, that goes for a lot of the senior staffers. But this has just been notable given just how close she is to the President. And so, what we're seeing right now is a lot of people talking about resigning. We're not seeing some of these people actually resign. The White House Counsel is another one that CNN reported earlier is also considering making an exit. So if they do though, a White House Counsel who defended the President during his impeachment trial, and Hope Hicks, who, of course, came back after leaving the White House, in a pretty dramatic exit would be really significant given the message it would send that they are leaving, you know, with just a few days left instead of sticking it out for the last two weeks of his presidency. But it does speak to just how isolated you're seeing the President and how small his inner circle has truly gotten.

So, we will watch to see if Hope Hicks actually follows through with this, if she actually does resign from this role. But we should note that this comes as now with these just a few days left, the White House is considering what it is that the President's exit is going to look like since he said today he is not going to be attending Joe Biden's inauguration which is a massive break from tradition.

[12:40:06]

But we are now learning that it is likely he and the First Lady are going to go to Mar-a-Lago where, of course, he is expected to spend his post-presidency life, they are expected to go the day before that inauguration happens. So that would be on January the 19th, which of course, would be notable in and of itself that a President is leaving Washington before his successor arrives.

KING: Kaitlan Collins with the breaking news from the White House. Kaitlan, appreciate it.

And joining me now to discuss that and the other tough choices facing Republicans right now is Mia Love, the former Republican Congresswoman from Utah. Congresswoman, and it is great to see you. Help me with a little context here. It is, as Kaitlan says, it is damaging to the President, it is a blow to the President if people like Hope Hicks resign, if in the Cabinet we've seen the Transportation Secretary and the Education Secretary resign. But it's a huge difference if you resign and just resign and privately say it's because of what the President did the other day, or if you publicly issue a statement saying what the President did was reprehensible.

We have not seen that. So, how much of that is -- this is CYA, I'm going to protect my reputation in the final days, and how much of is actually standing up to the President?

MIA LOVE, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: OK, so you see a lot of this in Washington, right? Trying to find that social media moment or trying to say, look, I'm going to jump ship. The fact is this. There were rioters out there, the people who claim that want freedom, they claim to protect freedom actually hurt the very thing that they were trying to protect. And so, to come out and say this is reprehensible, this is not right.

I am resigning because I will not continue to stand by, even if it's in for another two weeks, to be part of this. I will not watch this. We need a little bit more courage in Washington. We need people to stand up if they're going to protect the Republican Party. We need people to stand up and say, this is not what we stand for. We stand for something bigger and better than this.

KING: And you mentioned there's a lot of this in Washington. This is we're in a unique situation here, obviously, there was an insurrection at the United States Capitol. A lot of days in the Trump presidency, we're talking about ground we've never stood on before, but there is a basic CYA adapt to the wind feel flap, whichever the way the winds blow. I want you to listen here to two senators who have been very defensive, enabling this President for four years suddenly starting to say, well, you know, I didn't like this. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: The President's language and rhetoric crossed a line and it was reckless. I disagree with it. And I have disagreed with the President's language and rhetoric for the last four years.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R), SOUTH CAROLINA: All I can say is that I have shared my thoughts with the President. I've spoken out when I thought I should. Could I have done better? Yes. The question, could you have done better? Could those of you who cover the White House done better? You need to ask yourself that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KING: I'll ask the question to the media some other time, but that Senator Graham and Senator Cruz, two people who -- it's hard to believe if you go back and look at the 2016 primaries, suddenly became enablers and defenders of this President. Senator Cruz himself on the day of the insurrection was standing on the floor, saying that we need this election commission, when court after court after court after court after court and I could go on, had thrown out because there was no evidence, allegations of fraud. What should Republicans be doing at this moment?

LOVE: Well, obviously, it's incredibly difficult to go up against the President that is in your own party, but I just don't understand the behavior. This -- I've mentioned this before, this President is incredibly transactional.

KING: Can I jump in? Let me jump in. I'm sorry, I want to jump in. I just want to jump in. When you say they should stand up to him, should they vote to impeach him or should they go to the speaker today and say, I know Democrats want to impeach him again, we can't go that far but we will join you in a censure resolution. Should they do that?

LOVE: Well, I think there's a bigger picture with impeachment because I think that there's so many people -- I'm thinking about people here -- there's so many people that are suffering from the COVID pandemic, they're suffering from not being able to work. I don't know if an impeachment is going to further divide Americans. I think that that's something that we're not talking about. Are the American people really ready for another impeachment or are they saying, please make this go away? We want to get back to doing the business of the people again. So that is one thing that I think that both sides need to weigh in very carefully, because there's a group out there that are Trump supporters that we need. They're not going to just disappear.

But we need to figure out whether we're going to push them back into the hands of Donald Trump, which is who may come back again, right, who doesn't show any signs of going away, or whether we give them an alternative, whether we say there's a better way of doing things and there's a better leader out there. We have to be very careful when it comes to that because I think that there is a very high risk of a further divide. So, I'm not saying yes or no, I'm saying that that -- people should be taken into consideration.

KING: Congressman Love, it is great to see you and we will talk many, many times in the next several weeks, several days, several weeks and then months and years are important time for the Republican Party. And we appreciate your insights. Thank you very much.

[12:45:06]

Up next for us, the President-elect of the United States looks at the Trump vaccine rollout plan and says, I can do better. We'll give you the details.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KING: Dr. Steven Hahn, the outgoing FDA Commissioner said this morning, he believes the incoming Biden team should allow states to be more expansive with who they can decide gets the coronavirus vaccine. The President-elect though appears to go even further. The transition team telling CNN this morning in some exclusive reporting, the incoming administration will aim to release nearly every available dose when Biden takes office in 12 days.

[12:50:02]

CNN's Kristen Holmes is here with this new CNN reporting. Kristen, how quickly can they get them out there?

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, John, that is the question, and how exactly would this affect distribution given that we know that distribution right now goes through the States? So what -- what's going on, what matters, why do we care? A transition official telling Sara Murray, our colleague, that the President-elect believes that there's no reason for the government to be holding back any doses of this vaccine. And instead, it is more important to put this into people's arms now, particularly as we are seeing this crisis spike.

But this would be a huge change in the distribution. And well, it could ratchet things up, speed things up, it also comes with a large gamble. You're then placing a lot of responsibility on those brands Pfizer, Moderna, to produce enough vaccine to ensure that people can get that second dose. Remember this, the Trump administration is holding on to those doses because they insist it is necessary to ensure that these Americans will actually get the second dose of this two dose vaccine.

Now, these transition officials say they really believe that the companies can speed things up, get that production out there that they're going to be using the Defense Production Act to help with that process. But one thing to keep in mind here is that we know the Trump administration is already using the Defense Production Act. We also know that these vaccines are incredibly complicated. So, again, it is a risk.

Now, that being said, health officials are already supporting this on Twitter. We saw Scott Gottlieb, the former FDA Commissioner, and this is what he had to say. He said, "This is a prudent move that will help expand COVID vaccine access to more high risk patients at a time when the epidemic is worsening, and the vaccine can be an important backstop". So, again, there are still some questions about how exactly this would work. But right now, we are hearing health officials who are applauding this measure.

KING: We'll see how the risk works out, but you can certainly understand it. You look at the rising case count yesterday, the deadliest day from COVID. Kristen Holmes, grateful for the important reporting, to our colleague Sara Murray as well.

This quick programming note, CNN's Wolf Blitzer join him for new CNN Special Report, The Trump Insurrection, 24 Hours To Shook America, that program airing Sunday night, 10:00 Eastern right here on CNN.

And coming up, the President-elect talking economy next hour just after the government reports the American jobs market is bleeding again.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[12:56:48]

KING: Underscoring the giant, President Trump now doing what only three other outgoing presidents have done in the more than two centuries of American history, skipping the presidential inauguration, that symbol the hallmark of American democracy, the peaceful transition of power. Three other living presidents, though, will be there in 12 days.

Our Senior Washington Correspondent Jeff Zeleny joins us now. And Jeff, you're learning not only about the attendance plans, who will and who won't be there, but how the President-elect will come to Washington for that day.

JEFF ZELENY, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: John, we are learning that President-elect Joe Biden is going to come to Washington likely the day before his inauguration on Amtrak. He was called Amtrak Joe for a reason. He took that route from here in Wilmington to Washington's Union Station again and again for the better part of four decades as he served in the Senate. And he will be doing that again, I am told, leading up to his inauguration.

John, this is all part of the plan by the Inaugural Committee and the transition to make things as normal as possible, even though they have been shaken by violence and certainly challenges from the virus, the pandemic that is underway. But we are told this is one of the things that will be happening leading up to the inaugural festivities. We are also told that the living Presidents of Barack Obama, George W. Bush and Bill Clinton and their spouses will also be attending. We know that President Trump, at least he says now, will not be attending. The Biden team has not commented on that. But quite frankly, John, it makes it easier knowing what he's going to do.

Now, this is all happening as President-elect Biden is going to announce the final members of his Cabinet here this afternoon in Wilmington. This Cabinet, of course, will face easier confirmation now, John, because of the biggest event of the week as well, politically. Democrats will control the Senate in just 12 days. John?

KING: They will control the Senate. And, Jeff, let me come in with a question here. We're told he may take, the President-elect may take -- should take questions today. What are his thoughts on the democratic push to impeach the President of United States? I know the President- elect feels horribly about the President's conduct about the riots, but does he want to come into office at a time of more divide?

ZELENY: John, that would go against his pledge to and it's really his challenge to unify the country. And I am told that he does not have the appetite for impeachment or the 25th Amendment, but also realizing this is in the hands of Congress. So we will watch his words very carefully. Will he discourage the House from doing this?

I am -- based on a lot of reporting, I'm guessing and we will see that he will not, because a big part of unifying Democrats in the House will be allowing them to have this moment of impeaching this President. But we will see what President-elect Joe Biden says about this. He certainly has not spoken publicly, but again, no appetite for that. He wants to move on to January 21st as quickly as possible, John.

KING: A fascinating moment. Jeff Zeleny, grateful for the reporting and insights.

And to Jeff's point, one of the challenges awaiting the new President, the seven-month run of job growth now over. Final jobs report under President Trump far worse than economists had expected. A staggering 140,000 jobs lost last month in December, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics. The unemployment rate remaining flat at 6.7 percent marks the first month that rate has not dropped, has not improved in the last seven months.

The economy still down 9.8 million jobs since last February when this pandemic began. Biden administration, of course, planning more stimulus in the near term along with investments in infrastructure and clean energy, it says should help the jobs market.

Thanks for joining us today, a very busy day of breaking news. Hope to see you Sunday morning for "Inside Politics" and stay with us. Brianna Keilar picks up right now.

[13:00:00]