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Early Start with John Berman and Zoraida Sambolin
Pelosi: Invoke The 25 Amendment Or Congress Will Impeach; Social Media Companies' Response To Riot Too Little, Too Late; U.S. COVID Deaths Surpass 4,000 In A Day For The First Time. Aired 5:30-6a ET
Aired January 08, 2021 - 05:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
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[05:30:56]
CHRISTINE ROMANS, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, this is EARLY START. I'm Christine Romans.
LAURA JARRETT, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Laura Jarrett. Thirty minutes past the hour here in New York.
Overnight, Capitol police confirming the death of one of their officers, Brian Sicknick, injured responding to the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol -- a riot that now has the walls closing in on the president. Threats of a second impeachment, calls for his resignation, a staff exodus, potential criminal charges, and escalating concern over this mental state. Now, two months after he lost, he acknowledges a new administration will be sworn in.
ROMANS: Sources tell CNN that several cabinet secretaries have informally discussed invoking the 25th Amendment to remove Trump from office.
Overnight, a second cabinet member, Education Sec. Betsy DeVos, resigned over Trump's role in the attempted coup, hours after Elaine Chao, the transportation secretary, also resigned. Of course, it's easy to stand up with just 12 days left in Trump's term after enabling him from day one.
In that spirit, "The Wall Street Journal" editorial board adding its voice to those calling for Trump to resign.
JARRETT: The paper is owned by the same family, the Murdochs, that runs Fox News.
It says, quote, "We know an act of grace by Mr. Trump isn't likely. In any case, this week has probably finished him as a serious political figure.
He has cost Republicans the House, the White House, and now the Senate. Worse, he has betrayed his loyal supporters by lying to them about the election and the ability of Congress and Mr. Pence to overturn it. He has refused to accept the basic bargain of democracy, which is to accept the result, win or lose."
ROMANS: Two days after American democracy was threatened with a coup at the Capitol, Democrats and some Republicans are still weighing the best ways to remove President Trump from power to prevent further erosion of democracy.
CNN's Manu Raju reports from Capitol Hill for us.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MANU RAJU, CNN SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT (on camera): Good morning, Christine and Laura.
Now, extraordinary moves under discussion on Capitol Hill to try to make Donald Trump the first president in American history who could get impeached twice.
Now, the House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is seriously considering bringing an impeachment vote to the floor quickly -- much quicker than the 2019 impeachment of Donald Trump that took several months to play out. But now they're looking at bypassing the committees altogether and bringing a quick vote to the floor and getting it done in just a matter of days.
Now, there's still some time that needs to play out. They have not made any final decisions if that's the way they're going to proceed.
The first thing the Democrats want is for Vice President Mike Pence to invoke the 25th Amendment along with his -- the cabinet to essentially use the 25th Amendment under the Constitution -- this extraordinary power to push the president out of office.
Now, Democrat after Democrat is calling on Pence to move ahead with the 25th Amendment in the aftermath of the president inciting those deadly riots in the Capitol earlier this week. There's no indication that is the route that Pence is going to go. And so if he does not do that then the Democrats say well then, they may impeach President Trump.
There's one problem -- there's 12 days left in Donald Trump's presidency. So even if the Democrats have a quick vote -- presumably next week, if they're to do that -- getting an impeachment trial done in the United States Senate, which is still controlled by Republicans up until January 20th, then that is not going to happen quickly if the Republicans don't want to do that.
And they would still need two-thirds majority in the United States Senate to remove the president from office. Sixty-seven votes in a chamber currently controlled with 53 Republicans -- 52 Republicans at the moment. Republicans are angry at Donald Trump but they are not there yet about pushing him out of office -- guys.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
JARRETT: Manu, thank you. The president's political capital may not be his biggest problem right now. Federal investigators are looking at everyone involved in the violence at the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday, including the actions of President Trump inciting that crowd.
[05:35:00]
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MICHAEL SHERWIN, D.C. ACTING U.S. ATTORNEY: We're looking at all actors here. And anyone that had a role and the evidence fits the elements of a crime, they're going to be charged.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
JARRETT: Trump, of course, loses immunity from prosecution after he leaves the White House, which could be part of the reason CNN has learned that the president is asking his aides and lawyers about his power to pardon himself as he faces scrutiny for comments just like this.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to the Capitol and we're going to try and give our Republicans -- the weak ones because the strong ones don't need any of our help -- we're going to try and give them the kind of pride and boldness that they need to take back our country. So let's walk down Pennsylvania Avenue.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: All right, 12 days until Joe Biden's inauguration. Time to bring in CNN senior political analyst John Avlon. And, John --
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning.
ROMANS: -- America is in for an exhausting 12 days here. There are calls for another impeachment if Mike Pence and the cabinet won't invoke the 25th Amendment. But as Manu said, you know, time running short here. Listen to two prominent Republicans making the case for and against.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOHN KELLY, FORMER WHITE HOUSE CHIEF OF STAFF: The behavior yesterday and in the weeks and months before that has just been outrageous from the president. And what happened on Capitol Hill yesterday is a direct result of his poisoning the minds of people with the lies and the -- and the frauds.
JAKE TAPPER, CNN ANCHOR AND CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: If you were in the cabinet right now, would you vote to remove him from office?
KELLY: Uh -- yes, I would. GEN. COLIN POWELL (RET.), FORMER SECRETARY OF STATE: I would not work with either the 25th Amendment or try to do an impeachment. It's just too late for that. That's too slow. And so let's just -- I just want to get him out of office now as fast as possible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ROMANS: John, is it a good idea to remove President Trump at this point?
AVLON: I don't think it's practical if you look at the way the 25th Amendment works, especially because it's designed for physical incapacity, not mental problems.
ROMANS: For a stroke or a coma or not being able to do your duties.
AVLON: Exactly. This was in the wake of Woodrow Wilson and JFK.
ROMANS: Yes.
AVLON: And so, the president could effectively contest this. And moreover, Pence has shown no inclination. And you've got key cabinet members resigning in protest which also makes it more difficult, presumably, to hit the threshold you'd need to invoke the 25th Amendment.
Similarly, with impeachment -- which could be faster in the House obviously, not a trial in the Senate -- I think you've got two issues. One, you run the risk of defining impeachment down as it were, although this is clearly something that normally, a president would be impeached for. But the time is tough. It speeds it up.
The only upside that's worth looking at -- and I was nerding out on some papers about this -- is it could constrain his pardoning power. And that's what I think if you're looking for justice and accountability in the wake of these --
ROMANS: Yes.
AVLON: -- crimes, self-impeachment. Impeaching of his cronies, even amnesty for the people who stormed the Capitol. Those are all real things we should be concerned about in the pursuit of justice here.
ROMANS: John, you mentioned those cabinet resignations. I'm wondering, are these heroes or hypocrites 12 days ahead of the president leaving office to say this is -- this behavior is untoward?
AVLON: It's worse than anything he's done but it's of a piece. I think it sends at least a signal but it's probably many cases about their own reputation and their own self-conception more than anything else.
JARRETT: John, we've seen this pattern from the president countless times. I mean, I don't even know how many times this has happened.
He does something abhorrent, he turns defensive, then under pressure. He won't take any questions from the press but he puts out a tweet or a video like last night's. But then, the criticism from his base, from Fox News, from wherever sends it right back to where we started, and nothing ever changes. It's just wash, rinse, and repeat.
Now, because of his own words, in one week he went from essentially the de facto head of the GOP with everyone running around afraid of him to radioactive.
What is Trump's role in the party on January 21st?
AVLON: It's hugely diminished and it should be. First of all, there's obviously not the power of the presidency. Second of all, all this stuff has been staring at people in plain sight -- plain sight.
Trump did worse than down-ballot Republicans in the general election. That's a sign of weakness, not strength. His power is in the primaries. Those primaries are over.
And moreover, he hurt the party in Georgia and lost them two Senate seats that nobody thought would be in play.
So -- and now he's got the stain of his supporters running unhinged and storming the Capitol and damaging sort of the citadel of our democracy.
His -- he will have a hard core of support unlike anyone else in American politics, but his ability to bridge that -- that broader credibility -- he has been revealed to not be strong but weak, not big but small.
ROMANS: So, President-elect Biden, in just a few days, what a turn of events, right? He got himself a Senate majority. He's seen Republicans --
AVLON: Yes.
ROMANS: -- abandon Trump from kingmaker to radioactive, as Laura said. Now he's finally getting hearings for his cabinet nominees on the calendar.
You know, we know from sources that Biden has no appetite for impeachment here. So what's his game plan for the next 12 days?
AVLON: Look, he wants to have a clean turn of the page as much as possible so he can show the impact of new presidential leadership in an attempt to reconcile and reunite the nation. Impeachment only increases that hangover and bitterness and also, crucially, could allow Trump and his supporters to claim victimhood.
[05:40:07]
So I think, you know, Biden's not looking for symbolic wins. He must be tired of all the winning, as Tim Alberta said.
But he is going to be president in less than two weeks. He is looking forward and he wants to make sure, as much as possible, he's going to be in a position to put forward an administration to show that government can work again and a president can be a uniter, not a divider for real.
JARRETT: Well, he certainly has the upper hand now. Georgia really --
AVLON: Yes.
JARRETT: -- that just changed everything.
AVLON: Yes.
JARRETT: All right, John, have a nice weekend. Good to see you.
AVLON: You, too, guys. Be well.
JARRETT: Thanks.
ROMANS: Busy few days, no question.
AVLON: Hell of a day.
JARRETT: Well, despite weeks of online chatter about plans for storming Washington, D.C. -- it wasn't like these plans were done in secret -- officials say they had no quote "intelligence" indicating that there was a threat that it could be overrun.
The response from the Capitol police, a catastrophic failure that resulted in rioters stealing electronics and documents that, of course, could possibly national security information. The chief of the U.S. Capitol Police has resigned.
So far, dozens of people have been arrested. Several face federal charges, including one who officials say had a military-style automatic weapon and 11 Molotov cocktails. Just think about the damage that could have happened there.
Thousands of people, of course, stormed the building, many of them readily identifiable from T.V. and social media. So the work is just beginning for law enforcement. Some who have already been identified have lost their jobs because of what they did.
ROMANS: Oh, yes, actions have consequences. And, Simon and Schuster says it is dropping GOP Sen. Josh Hawley's planned book. Hawley spearheaded the failed effort in the Senate to block certification of President-elect Biden's victory.
Now, the global publishing house changed course after Wednesday's violence and what it called Hawley's role in quote "a dangerous threat to our democracy and freedom." It doesn't want to publish his book anymore. The Missouri senator called the move Orwellian, an assault on his free speech, and vowed to fight it in court.
Remember, Hawley, Ted Cruz, and others were perfectly fine in overturning the will of the people. Now they have blood on their hands and their stunt should not be brushed aside as they and others try now to rewrite history. Simon & Schuster won't let them do that on its pages.
We'll be right back.
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[05:46:23]
ROMANS: Forty-six minutes past the hour.
Growing scrutiny on media companies following that violent assault on the U.S. Capitol. T.V. carriers face questions about lending their platforms to companies and channels that promote conspiracies, like Newsmax and even Fox News.
Big tech's role poisoning minds with false information has also been an issue for years. Pressure is growing on those companies as well.
Our Donie O'Sullivan has more.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER (on camera): After years of rampant misinformation in the final weeks of the Trump presidency, social media companies are taking unprecedented actions against the accounts of President Donald Trump.
Facebook announcing on Thursday that it will suspend President Trump from posting on its platforms for the remainder of his term in office and they hinted that it may become a permanent ban. On Wednesday, going into Thursday, President Trump had a 12-hour suspension from Twitter.
Now, of course, these steps -- you know, many people will say that they are good moves by the social media companies stopping the president from sharing blatant misinformation and conspiracy theories. But in some ways, it's all a bit too little, too late.
And also, suspending the president from Twitter -- stopping him from tweeting -- you know, it is a good way for Facebook -- for Mark Zuckerberg to get headlines and maybe some positive press. But it doesn't solve the problem of all the conspiracy theories, of all violent speech that are spreading across Facebook and Facebook-owned properties like Instagram and WhatsApp every single day for many, many years.
So even though we are seeing these companies take action now after they saw the violence here in Washington, D.C. on Wednesday and perhaps realized that what is being said on their platforms and what is being shared on their platforms makes them culpable -- makes Mark Zuckerberg and others culpable in some of the violence we have seen here -- now they are taking action. But again, it may be a bit too little, too late -- Christine and Laura.
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JARRETT: Donie, thank you for that. The role of social media creating a platform for Wednesday's violence on Capitol Hill cannot be overstated. Ask yourself what would make someone rush into -- break into the Capitol thinking they could overturn the results of the election? Of course, this is about privilege.
But as you are about to see, some people there appear to genuinely believe they were doing something righteous because of what they see online in fact-free zones.
CNN's Elle Reeve went inside the riot.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are standing here. We're just standing here throwing some (bleep).
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are we supposed to do, OK? The Supreme Court is not helping us. No one's helping us. Only us can help us. Only we can do it.
PROTESTERS: Chanting USA! USA!
ELLE REEVE, CNN CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A mass group of Trump supporters stormed the U.S. Capitol on Wednesday to stop the certification of what they believe was a fraudulent election.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unquestionable that our votes were stolen. It's unquestionable. There's so much proof.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: People, come on. We didn't come here for nothing. Come on up and tell Nancy Pelosi what you think.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We want our representatives to do the right thing and decertify the seven swing states.
[05:50:00]
PROTESTERS: Chanting USA! USA! USA! USA!
REEVE (voice-over): The rally started peacefully as tens of thousands gathered outside the White House. They cheered Donald Trump and his allies as they continued to lie that the election was stolen.
RUDY GIULIANI, PRESIDENT TRUMP'S ATTORNEY: Let's have trial by combat.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He just said trial by combat. I'm ready. I'm ready.
REEVE (voice-over): People marched down two avenues to the Capitol and once they got there some broke through barricades. Once a few rioters broke into the building, the mob followed.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was actually here while this guy started breaking in with a cane. Obviously, there's a power struggle. There's peaceful guys that were like no, no, we don't want to do that. Then there was that guy. You know, he just said well, oh well, I'm breaking it in.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We broke down the barriers and rushed them. We charged them. We got all the way to the steps and made a line.
So we stood there and we tried to push them back a little bit until finally, they started getting rough with us, so we kind of pushed them back. So that's what we did -- we pushed them back. We tried to get up the steps and they wouldn't let us up. So then they started pepper- spraying and macing everybody.
ELIZABETH, KNOXVILLE, TENNESSEE RESIDENT: Thank you.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Are you OK?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put some milk in your eyes.
ELIZABETH: They maced me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Use milk.
ELIZABETH: They pushed me out and they maced me.
REEVE (voice-over): We spoke to some people who broke into the Capitol.
REEVE (on camera): Tell me just what happened in there and tell us what happened.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK. We went in there and I walked in and there's just a whole bunch of people laying up in some Oregon room. I don't know if it's just tons of Oregon fans but they were smoking a bunch of weed in there. And they moved down -- so many statues.
The cops are very cool. They were like hey, guys, have a good night -- well, some of them. It was just crazy. It's really weird. You could see that some of them are on our side.
REEVE (voice-over): We reached out to the Capitol Hill police for comment but have not yet heard back.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've had your backs for a long time now. A long time.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A huge group of us stormed inside and as we started, we were basically shouting at the cops. And there were people arguing with them, trying to get them on our side, basically.
REEVE (voice-over): Clashes with police happened sporadically throughout the day and waves of tear gas wafted into the crowd.
They said they felt like they were doing something good.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is our Capitol. We built it. UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, this is a bunch really, really pissed
off regular folks. I've got a job. This is Wednesday. I'm supposed to be at work, yes -- shhh.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Don't tread on me.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That's what we're doing, fighting back.
REEVE (on camera): And what's the point? What's the end game?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's the point?
REEVE (on camera): Yes.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're losing our freedoms. What do you mean, what's the point?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Taking our freedoms, locking us down, and turning this country into a blasted socialist republic. And that is not right. That's what I'm doing here.
REEVE (voice-over): Elle Reeve, CNN, Washington, D.C.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
ROMANS: It's just remarkable and Elle did such a good job just sort of embedded with the -- with the riot there.
JARRETT: Like she always does.
ROMANS: We're just really -- just carefully telling that story.
I was surprised by how many flags that were not American flags. They were Trump flags --
JARRETT: Confederate flags.
ROMANS: -- or they were Confederate flags inside the Capitol building. That -- that's what was -- really struck me.
JARRETT: Right.
ROMANS: Is this -- are these people patriots for America or for their version of America?
JARRETT: I think we know the answer to that. What I found just remarkable is how no one was afraid. No one was afraid that the police were going to stop them. They felt that they had the right to be there.
It was just so revealing to listen to them talk about the Supreme Court is supposed to be the ones that could protect them and so now they have to take their country back. From whom, of course, we know.
ROMANS: Yes. JARRETT: Well, the country's focus, of course, has been on politics this week, understandably -- you can see why. But coronavirus hasn't just gone away. Almost 15,000 Americans this week. And overnight, for the first time, the U.S. surpassed 4,000 deaths reported in a single day.
Meantime, vaccine shipments are behind schedule but states are still having trouble putting what they have into people's arms. As of last weekend, 33 percent of available doses were administered. As of yesterday, that number was now down to 27 percent.
ROMANS: All right.
Looking at markets around the world this Friday morning, you can see a mixed performance really, although Paris and Frankfurt are higher here. London down just marginally.
On Wall Street, to finish up the trading week, gains again. The Dow above 31,000. All three major averages hit record highs Thursday. Investors are looking past the drama and chaos in the last hours of the Trump presidency and forward to a new Biden administration.
The Dow finished above 31,000. The Nasdaq closed above 13,000 for the first time in history.
Look, after the Democratic sweep in the Senate, Goldman Sachs now upgraded its GDP forecast for 2021. The bank now estimates GDP growth of 6.4 percent. Morgan Stanley is also more optimistic about the recovery. It anticipates growth of 5.9 percent.
The message here? Democrat control of all three branches of government should pave the way for faster economic recovery looking beyond the damage of this week to the long-term.
[05:55:03]
Hopefully, we'll get a jobs report later this morning. Hopefully, we'll see jobs created for Main Street. I want to see Main Street doing well again because so far, it's really been just in the pockets of Wall Street.
JARRETT: We know you're all over it.
ROMANS: Thanks for joining us, everybody. Have a great weekend. I'm Christine Romans.
JARRETT: I'm Laura Jarrett. "NEW DAY" is next.
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TRUMP: A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th.
JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president released this message this evening because his house is on fire. UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: His people are jumping ship. He's looking at a Congress that wants to impeach him.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have already charged a number of people. Everything is on the table and that includes the president.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. has seen a record number of people die from COVID-19.
