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CNN identifies Extremists at the U.S. Capitol Insurrection; Investigating Trump's Role in Capitol Siege; Trump Faces Pressure to Resign; Raffensperger on Insurrection at U.S. Capitol. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

DREW GRIFFIN, CNN INVESTIGATIVE CORRESPONDENT: Is -- is the guy that was breaking into Nancy Pelosi's office, putting his feet up on the desk. He has a name too. His name is Richard Barnett. Easily identifiable. Said he actually took an envelope from that desk and bragged about it. In fact, he was still bragging about breaking into that office when he talked to one of our affiliates.

I just want you to listen, Alisyn, to his explanation of why he did this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

RICHARD BARNETT: I set my flag down. And I sat down there at my desk. I'm a taxpayer. I'm a patriot. That ain't her desk. We loaned her that desk, and she ain't appreciating the desk so I thought I'd sit down and appreciate the desk. I threw my feet up on the desk.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

GRIFFIN: Very belligerent. A lot of these people, I can tell you, are second-guessing their belligerency as they are being outed by other people and now the FBI is looking for many of them, Alisyn.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: What about those two? Are -- have they been under -- are they under arrest?

GRIFFIN: We know that the FBI, that the police were looking for them or wanting to speak with them. We don't have information on exactly if they've been picked up or if they've voluntarily contacted police.

CAMEROTA: How about the guy who plopped himself down at Mike Pence's seat?

GRIFFIN: Yes, that's a guy who looked at his own Instagram account, realized what he has done, and now is begging forgiveness. He's from Idaho. His name is Josiah Colt. And he said he was just caught up in the heat of the moment. He put out a statement, and I want to read it to you, because it just kinds of tells you that he sincerely apologizes to the American people. I recognize my actions that have brought shame upon myself, my family, my friends, and my beautiful country. In the moment, he says, I thought I was doing the right thing. I realize now that my actions were inappropriate and I beg for forgiveness from America and my home state of Idaho.

You know, a lot of people, as we've also been reporting, have been fired from their jobs after posting about what they were doing yesterday, Alisyn. So, in addition to law enforcement looking for instigators in all of this, I think there are a lot of repercussions as people realize, you know, just what took place and that they were a part of it.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, realized too late. It's heartening when people come to their senses. If only they could have done that three days ago.

Drew, thank you very much for all of your investigating. We will, obviously, stay on it.

GRIFFIN: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: After the carnage at the Capitol that he inspired, will President Trump face charges for inciting a deadly insurrection? We discuss the legality, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:36:35]

CAMEROTA: Developing this morning, U.S. Capitol Police confirming that one of their officers died from injuries suffered when those domestic terrorists stormed the Capitol. Five Americans are now dead from that failed coup attempt. Federal prosecutors and local police have charged dozens of these people. The acting U.S. attorney in Washington says federal investigators are investigating President Trump's role in inciting this deadly siege.

Joining us now with how this all happened, CNN counterterrorism analyst Philip Mudd. He's a former senior intelligence adviser with the FBI and former CIA official. Also with us, CNN law enforcement analyst Jonathan Wackrow. He's a former Secret Service agent and corporate security consultant.

Great to have both of you with us this morning.

Phil, the Capitol Police chief has resigned. The Senate sergeant at arms, I think, has tendered his resignation or been asked for it. The House sergeant at arms has.

Who do you blame for what happened and how they got into the Capitol and how this all spiraled into this deadly nightmare?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: I don't blame anybody at the moment. I think there is a question about what Capitol Police were doing. There are questions about how people got in so quickly. But I think the first question going into the inauguration, if I were back in the business, Alisyn, would be, let's make sure we focus on how to ensure we prevent this in 12 days. Look, we can look back over time. Obviously, the FBI and others, the

police in D.C. are looking back to determine who the perpetrators were. But in the business, if you're in the Capitol Police, I would not want to be spending a lot of time figuring out who to blame right now. We've got 12 days to make sure it doesn't happen again. That's what I'd be focused on.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Jonathan Wackrow, we had former Congressman Denver Riggleman on a few minutes ago and he said something interesting. He said the president has no alibi. And we learned from the D.C. U.S. attorney overnight that the president is being investigated, or at least he wouldn't rule out investigating the president for his role in inciting the mob that then went to the Capitol for that insurrection. We now know a Capitol Police officer is dead from that.

What should our takeaway be about the fact that the D.C. U.S. attorney isn't ruling out investigating the president?

JONATHAN WACKROW, CNN LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I mean -- John, good morning.

That is actually a significant fact. You know, there's two parts to this. First, a sitting president, there's a policy by the U.S. Justice Department that states that a sitting president can't be indicted.

However, we're just about to the end of that term. And when he leaves office, there may be evidence to criminally charge President Trump for inciting that violence.

Listen, he told his supporters, fight like hell to stop Congress from finalizing this election. I mean, the challenges in understanding what those -- the intent of those words were and how they were understood. Was the intent by the president to actually tell and direct his followers to go and cause that harm or was that just hyperbolic language?

But on the other side of it, how was that received? How is his followers understanding those words and did they take it as a call to action to go up? And I think that's what we're seeing right now.

I mean it -- you know, stating the obvious, this goes well beyond the norms of civil discourse and once again proves that words can be dangerous. They can be misinterpreted and lead to physical harm. And we see the consequences of that today.

CAMEROTA: Hey, Phil, I just want to dive into something that you were just saying about your fears about the inauguration or how we have to prepare for it because congressman -- former Congressman Riggleman was just saying that, too, that he was saying that the chatter online suggests that these radicalized, violent Trump supporters are planning something.

[06:40:13]

And so given that, Phil, and that that's your biggest concern, you know, if we -- if we canceled the inauguration, if Joe Biden doesn't, you know, do that sort of celebratory march, then do they win or is that what we're supposed to be doing right now?

MUDD: I would not do that. Look, you have a responsibility, in this case, I think to move on with the governance of Washington, to transition maybe to a calmer time. I think we've seen, with the demonstrations over time, on both the left and the right, that law enforcement has the capability to do this if they're out in force. They were not out in force a couple of days ago. So I'd move forward.

This relates, by the way, Alisyn, to the fact that the Department of Justice has moved so quickly on these prosecutions from a couple of days ago. That's not just penalizing people, that's going into a courtroom saying, judge, I want to ensure that this person has a restraining order so they can't show up in 12 days at another one of these events. It's also, obviously, got the prospect of telling people, if you do show up, we don't want to see on FaceBook two years -- two days later that you feel sorry. If you show up again, you're going to be prosecuted. So I think moving forward with the prosecutions might help to keep some of the radicals out.

BERMAN: Yes, I find it so interesting, Pat Cipollone, who is the White House counsel, has been ringing the alarm bell about the president's words from Wednesday on. I mean he knew -- he knew the president was in legal jeopardy here.

I do understand that the president's lawyers, if this ever did get to a courtroom, they will argue, oh, he didn't directly call for people to go take over the Capitol and they'll try to shade that gray. And they may win on that argument. But, the fact that the White House counsel was raising concerns about it shows you that at a minimum it's a valid question, Jonathan. And to be talking about this, about a president of the United States, is stunning.

WACKROW: Absolutely. I mean the -- everything about this situation is stunning, John. I mean from the, you know, the president's actions and words that precipitated the insurrection up at Capitol Hill. I mean everything, you know, points to, you know, multiple red flags, multiple missed opportunities to mitigate, you know, these actions, well before they, you know, led to the death of a Capitol Police officer and others, as well as desecrating, you know, our nation's Capitol in totality.

BERMAN: Jonathan, Phil, thank you both for being with us this morning. We appreciate your help.

WACKROW: Thank you.

CAMEROTA: Calls growing to remove President Trump from office, but how does incoming president Joe Biden feel about that? The answer, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:46:46]

BERMAN: So developing this morning, this is interesting, sources tell CNN that President-elect Joe Biden has no appetite for trying to impeach President Trump again or weighing in on any effort to remove him from office.

CNN's Jessica Dean is live in Wilmington, Delaware, with more.

Joe Biden seems focused on January 20th and only that.

JESSICA DEAN, CNN WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: That is exactly right, John, and good morning to you.

Our sources are telling us precisely what you just said, that President-elect Biden wants to keep his focus on taking office here in less than two weeks. And he wants that to be a smooth process and he wants it to go well. That's what he wants to focus on. He did not respond to shouted questions about impeachment, about the 25th Amendment when we saw him yesterday at an event here in Wilmington.

We did get this from his spokesperson, from a spokesperson for President-elect Joe Biden, Andrew Bates. Let me read it to you. This is what they said.

President-elect Biden and Vice President-elect Harris are focused on their duty, preparing to take office on January 20th and we'll leave it to Vice President Pence, the cabinet, and the Congress to act as they see fit. In the meantime, Donald Trump must stop blocking cooperation with the transition that could harm the readiness of the United States government to overcome the pandemic and the other crises he's worsened. So that's where he is right now in terms of the 25th Amendment and impeachment.

In terms of the attack on the Capitol, the president-elect did talk a little bit more about that at this event yesterday.

Here's more of what he had to say.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES: Yesterday, in my view, one of the darkest days in the history of our nation.

The past four years we've had a president who's made his contempt for our democracy, our Constitution, the rule of law clear in everything he has done. He unleashed an all-out assault on our institutions of our democracy from the outset. And yesterday was but the culmination of that unrelenting attack.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

DEAN: And you see there also he made a point of calling the people who stormed the Capitol domestic terrorists. John, we will see the president-elect and vice president-elect later today when they introduce their nominees for Labor secretary, Commerce secretary, and the head of the Small Business Administration.

John.

BERMAN: We'll be watching that very closely.

Jessica Dean, thanks so much for being with us this morning.

Look, obviously, the president's words that led to the insurrection, a moral failure. But what's clear this week, a political failure as well. The president's party lost two seats in Georgia following the president's rhetoric and his call to the Georgia secretary of state to find votes to overturn that election. We will hear from that Georgia secretary about what he now thinks about what has transpired, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[06:53:44]

CAMEROTA: Horrifying. That's how Georgia's secretary of state describes the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Believe it or not, this week began with President Trump's phone call pressuring Brad Raffensperger to find votes to overturn his election loss. That was this week.

CNN's Amara Walker spoke with Raffensperger in a new interview.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

BRAD RAFFENSPERGER (R), GEORGIA SECRETARY OF STATE: It was just horrifying because it really -- things had just gone too far.

AMARA WALKER, CNN ANCHOR AND CORRESPONDENT (voice over): For two long months, Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger endured standing in the firing line of Trump's baseless attacks.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's an enemy of the people.

WALKER: And even with death threats against his own family, he never budged.

RAFFENSPERGER: We believe that we do have an accurate election.

TRUMP: No, I -- no, you don't.

WALKER: And then Trump's reckless lies of a rigged election culminated with this.

RAFFENSPERGER: People have been spun up for two months about election results. People have been misrepresenting, you know, the facts, spreading this disinformation, saying whatever they wanted to out on social media. And there were consequences. And we saw what those consequences were yesterday.

WALKER (on camera): And when you say "people," specifically we're talking about President Trump. He was out at the ellipse.

TRUMP: We're going to walk down to the Capitol.

WALKER: As we all know, right before the riots broke out, telling his supporters to walk on the Capitol.

[06:55:02]

This was incited by the president.

Do you blame President Trump and what would you say to him?

RAFFENSPERGER: Well, obviously, that's why I've said from day one that we have to be really mindful of our speech because we can't spin people up and play people and get them into an emotional frenzy and emotional state. Deal with the facts and the facts are on our side. We had fair, honest elections in Georgia.

WALKER: Did he betray our country?

RAFFENSPERGER: I believe that -- that we have to really recognize when you hold a high office like that, that you're really called to call people up to a higher standard of behavior. If maybe you don't like an answer, you don't like a result, but you never want to go down the road of violence. At the end of the day, that lady lost her life. I've lost my oldest son. So I know what their parents are going -- her parents are going through today, that grief that they're having. And it seems so needless.

WALKER (voice over): And it seems this was the last straw for Raffensperger, who just last month still declared himself a Trump supporter.

WALKER (on camera): And you still support President Trump despite him sewing doubt in the integrity of the election?

RAFFENSPERGER: Yes, I wish he would have won.

WALKER (voice over): Now he admits things have changed.

WALKER (on camera): Do you regret that vote? Do you still prefer that he had won this past election?

RAFFENSPERGER: Many of the actions that he's taken since then are not what you would expect from a president.

When something like this happens, then you -- his accomplishments really get negated, they get obscured and you actually go out with a black mark on your record. And it's a shame it had to come to that. It's also a shame that many people, political leaders, elected political leaders in the Republican Party didn't have the courage to stand and say, Mr. President, here's the -- what the real numbers are and I believe the real numbers.

WALKER: But, I mean, he still does have a grip on the party, clearly, and he still has a grip on his supporters.

RAFFENSPERGER: I think after today, I think there'll be a reevaluation of a lot of things.

WALKER (voice over): Including a reevaluation of how two incumbent Republican senators lost their seats to Democrats, making Raphael Warnock and Jon Ossoff the first Democrats to win Senate seats in Georgia in 20 years.

RAFFENSPERGER: President Trump really hurt the Republican Party here on the senator runoffs. And them getting involved in that, they would have just tended to the (INAUDIBLE), you know, focused on their races, they would have done well. They came up short. He filled up stadiums. I get that. But, at the end of the day, you've got to fill up the ballot box with your vote. The other side in this race did a better job than we did as Republicans.

WALKER: Raffensperger's party may have lost, but he trusts democracy will prevail, as it did in Georgia. Through the chaos, Raffensperger hasn't lost his sense of humor. He credits his wives and sons for keeping him grounded.

RAFFENSPERGER: They're real proud. They have some fun with it at times, but they're real proud. They gave me a beautiful framed picture and it was the Luckovich article of people that were in the boxing ring and I was the referee. And so it was kind of like that whimsical humor. And so we had a good laugh over it. And so -- and that's good, because it keeps me humble and it keeps me real.

WALKER: They see you as a referee. And is that how you see yourself?

RAFFENSPERGER: In this job, yes. And, you know, and that's why the players did learn, their job is to win the game. It's not the player -- not the referee to make one, you know, one call or the other so you can go ahead and score a touchdown. Play the game fair and go out and, you know, play your guts out. Leave it all on the field.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

WALKER: Now, Brad Raffensperger tells me that the Senate runoff from an operational standpoint was a success, with record turnout of 4.4 million votes. There are a couple of key dates we should keep in mind. On January 15th, that is a deadline for counties to finalize their counts. And by statute, the secretary of state must certify the results by January 22nd. And as we all know, Joe Biden and Kamala Harris will be sworn in on Inauguration Day, which is January 20th.

So with that date in mind, I asked Secretary Raffensperger if he would commit to certifying the results by January 20th, knowing that the results of the Senate race will change party control, and he said he would absolutely do his best and that is a realistic timeline for him as long as no unforeseen issues pop up.

Alisyn, back to you.

CAMEROTA: Amara, what an interesting interview you did with him. I mean it's just really interesting to see that more personal side and what motivates him. So, thank you very much for that sit-down.

And NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: A new administration will be inaugurated on January 20th.

JIM ACOSTA, CNN CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: The president released this message this evening because his house is on fire.

GLORIA BORGER, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL ANALYST: His people are jumping ship. He's looking at a Congress that wants to impeach him.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Investigators have already charged a number of people.

[07:00:02]

Everything is on the table, and that includes the president.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The U.S. has seen a record number of people die from COVID-19.