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Federal Prosecutors Investigate Trump's Role In Inciting Capitol Siege; CNN Reality Check: Don't Forget Or Forgive Those Who Voted To Overturn The Election; U.S. Reports 4,000+ Deaths In Deadliest Day Of Pandemic. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[07:32:50]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Five Americans are dead this morning after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, including U.S. Capitol Police officer, Brian Sicknick, who was injured in the attempted coup and who has now died.

Federal prosecutors are looking at everyone involved, including President Trump's role in inciting this violence.

Joining us now is CNN senior legal analyst Laura Coates, and CNN legal analyst Elie Honig. Both are former federal prosecutors.

Elie, I want to start with you. What charges could President Trump be looking at for inciting this violence?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR (via Cisco Webex): Yes, Alisyn, there's really a menu of potential charges here. I'm not saying any of these charges are easy cases or obvious cases. But as a prosecutor, I'd be comfortable getting up in front of a jury and arguing for any of the following.

Inciting a riot is a federal crime. Sedition -- and that sounds dramatic but it can just mean forcefully taking over federal property building. Destruction of federal property. Entering the Capitol grounds without authorization. All of those things are in play.

Now, the key question here is were the president's words simply sort of heated political rhetoric, which is OK, or did it cross the line for its inciting people to actual acts of criminality?

To me, the best evidence of that from a prosecutor's point of view is look what he said while this was going on and afterwards. He said remember this day forever. He called the people who stormed the Capitol great patriots. We love you. You're very special.

To me, that shows that they did exactly what he wanted and intended for them to do.

CAMEROTA: And, Laura, that's where you come in because there was a rally before the -- all of these rioters marched to the U.S. Capitol, and President Trump surrounding himself with Don, Jr. and Rudy Giuliani, and people who spelled it out. I mean, it wasn't -- it wasn't even open to interpretation.

Let me remind everybody what they suggested these rioters do.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, JR., EXECUTIVE VICE PRESIDENT, THE TRUMP ORGANIZATION: Stand up and fight. Stand up and hold your representatives accountable.

RUDY GIULIANI, ATTORNEY FOR PRESIDENT TRUMP: Let's have trial by combat.

REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): Today is important in another way. Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Kicking ass, trial by combat. How else do you interpret that, Laura?

[07:35:03]

LAURA COATES, CNN SENIOR LEGAL ANALYST, FORMER FEDERAL PROSECUTOR: Well, there's no other way if you speak English and you have common sense and you say the straight line from that particular speech -- that set of speeches all the way to what happened at the U.S. Capitol.

The president, himself, even saying we're going to confront the so- called weak Republicans. We're coming for you, Donald Trump, Jr. said. These are the contextual clues -- ding, ding, ding -- that suggest that they intended for what to happen to actually happen.

But, Elie is also right. Even if you think that that's not a straight line and that is political rhetoric, you also have what he said afterwards -- the atta-boys, the condoning it until the eleventh hour last night when people began to jump ship.

And you see it's not just the moments where in the past, President Trump and the "get 'em out of here" at his rallies. And people have said well, is that enough to actually incite a riot or violence?

Here you have a far more straight line, including conspiracy to commit sedition, a very, very serious crime to try to stop or prevent or delay in any way the faithful execution of the law. And remember, the President of the United States is the head of the Executive Branch of government whose job it is to faithfully execute and enforce the law.

And so you've got all of these combinations of contextual clues, direct evidence.

And it's not just Trump who is an issue right now. He retains the pardon power -- likely, not self-pardon. But guess what? Rudy Giuliani, Don, Jr., and other people who were also involved and equally complicit, they have to worry about it as well. Whether the president will not extend a pardon -- a preemptive pardon for those who destroyed federal property, committed these heinous acts leading to deaths in the Capitol, well that would be, for many, a bridge way too far.

CAMEROTA: And by the way, that was Congressman Mo Brooks who was the person who said today is the day that American patriots need to start kicking ass. I mean, I don't know how else you interpret kicking ass other than violence.

And so, Elie, do you think that he and Rudy Giuliani and Don, Jr. could also be facing charges, or are investigators just looking at the president's role?

HONIG: Oh, I -- look, investigators made clear that they're looking at everybody and they should be. Now, the president has a longer track record going all the way to "stand back and stand by."

But, Laura said such an important phrase there, common sense. We, as prosecutors -- I know Laura's given this speech to juries and I have too. We used to always tell juries do not leave your common sense at the door. You are allowed to bring your common sense into this courtroom. Use your experience and decide what was the obvious import of these words.

And I think when you put the whole picture together, the president's conduct over months -- I mean, remember his tweet, January sixth will be wild -- be there. You add it all up. Think about the crowd he's looking out at on that day -- the flag-waving crowd wearing -- you know, some of them wearing Confederate flags, some of them wearing, you know --

CAMEROTA: Camo.

HONIG: -- camo and stuff referring to Nazis, and he says those words. I mean, use your common sense. That's good enough for me.

CAMEROTA: And so, Laura, quickly, CNN has reporting that President Trump has been asking his lawyers about the power of self-pardon.

Of course, he's going to do that. I can't believe this is still a question. Of course, he will do that. He's broken every norm known to mankind. And so, can he do that?

COATES: Welcome to the wild, Wild West. We do not yet know. It has not been specifically litigated but I suspect that the Supreme Court, many of which have been actually nominated and confirmed during his own administration who are textualists, originalists -- who know full well what the actual framework of the Constitution and the Founding Fathers' views were on the monarchy.

I suspect that they would be extraordinarily reluctant and absolutely reject the notion that you could pardon one's self in contravention of the Justice Department's directive that one cannot stand as a judge in his own trial, particularly if it means that you are condoning as another branch of government with a checks and balance system the overthrow or insurrection of the government.

CAMEROTA: Laura, Elie, thank you both very much. Great to see you.

HONIG: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: OK.

Nearly 150 Republican members of Congress voted to overturn the election results with no credible evidence whatsoever of vast voter fraud, even after the U.S. Capitol was attacked. Who are these elected leaders who swore an oath to protect the Constitution?

John Avlon has a must-see reality check, next.

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[07:43:05]

CAMEROTA: One hundred forty-seven Republican members of Congress voted to reject the presidential election results even after the Capitol was stormed and their colleagues feared for their lives.

John Avlon has our reality check. Hi, John.

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST: There needs to be accountability for this attempt to overthrow our democracy because unless the people who perpetrated this face real consequences, America is going to face more sedition in the future. There needs to be accountability for President Trump and his minions who kept lying to the American people about a stolen election while trying to steal it themselves. There needs to be accountability for Trump supporters who stormed the Capitol Building. All of them should be prosecuted.

But we can't forget about the 147 Republicans who enabled Trump's attempted coup, even after the Capitol was attacked. They made the cynical and cowardly calculation that it would be easier to roll over for Donald Trump's demands than to do the right thing for our democracy.

That's exactly why we need to remember their names. And as conservative columnist George Will suggested, politically tar them with a scarlet "S" for sedition.

You probably know the seditious seven in the Senate led by Josh Hawley and Ted Cruz, joined by Rick Scott, Cindy Hyde-Smith, as well as freshmen senators Tommy Tuberville, Roger Marshall, and Cynthia Lummis. With the Capitol battered, they still tried to overrule voters and overturn a presidential election, in Mitch McConnell's word.

Most Senate Republicans ultimately chose to oppose that path, but that was not the case in the House where an unprecedented 139 Republicans -- 66 percent of the party's total -- voted to overturn the election without one ounce of actual evidence.

Maybe they thought there'd be little price to pay because most don't have competitive general elections. They only have to worry about getting primaried from the far-right, a threat Trump often used to keep them in line.

So, instigators like Louie Gohmert, Paul Gosar, and Mo Brooks knew they could lie and divide with impunity. But there are still 27 toss- up districts, according to the Cook Political Report.

[07:45:02]

And so it's worth shining a light on those House members. Republicans like Arizona's Dave Schweikert and California's Mike Garcia. Minnesota's Jim Hagedorn, New Jersey's Jeff Van Drew, Virginia's Bob Good, and Pennsylvania's Scott Perry. All from states Joe Biden won.

Speaking of Pennsylvania, eight Keystone State Republicans voted to invalidate their own voters, which is bonkers. You can't logically say there was massive fraud for president but your election was legit. But then, logic left the station a long time ago.

Of course, there's more. The most populist-pitted county in the country is Suffolk in New York, where Congressman Lee Zeldin cast his vote for Donald Trump over democracy. So did New York City's only representative, Nicole Malliotakis.

This isn't about local politics. It's about people putting party over country, like 12 Republicans from Florida or seven from North Carolina or six from Georgia.

On the flip side, Republicans who consistently stood up to Trump's threat, they showed real courage. People like Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, and Adam Kinzinger. And they deserve your respect whether you agree with their policies or not. And that's exactly why those who failed this test should not be forgiven or forgotten.

As former Republican Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger said, "...our grandchildren will know your names only as the villains who fought against the great American experiment and the will of the voters."

And that's your reality check.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: It's an accountability check John, and I'm so glad that you're doing it. Thank you so much for that.

For the first time, the United States reported 4,000 deaths from coronavirus in a single day. It could get worse soon. What, if anything, can be done?

Dr. Sanjay Gupta joins us next.

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[07:50:52]

BERMAN: Breaking news. For the first time, the United States recorded more than 4,000 deaths from coronavirus in a single day. Look at that number -- 4,000 deaths. Nearly 20,000 deaths have been reported the first week of this year alone. Joining us now is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

He's live at Grady Memorial Hospital where he works and just got his second dose of the vaccine. He's also the author of the new book "Keep Sharp: Build a Better Brain at Any Age," which is out now.

And, Sanjay, I want to talk about all of this but I want to focus on the deaths -- 4,000 in a single day. And the very real -- it's not even a fear. It's an expectation, at this point, that it will get worse. Why?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, I mean -- you know, we're seeing, obviously, the numbers of people who are being confirmed as newly-infected still continuing to go up significantly John, as you know.

And if you look at these models -- I mean, they project all these different scenarios. How states are going to react. The mitigation measures that are going to go into place.

But, you know, we are in the sort of worst-case scenario model now. We can show the graphics from IHME. That's the model that we've been paying a lot of attention to. But John, even that -- as I sort of crunch these numbers, realize that we're even a little bit ahead now -- right now when it comes to deaths of what the IHME model would suggest.

And they say, you know, potentially, by the end of the month, we may peak. It may be later than that. And at that point, they're giving between 5 1/2 to 6,000 deaths per day. That's what they're saying.

That's, in part, because of all the things we've talked about and the holiday surge from the most recent holidays. We really start -- haven't started to see that yet. That usually takes a few weeks to really feel that impact.

So that's the concern. John, in some ways, it's the same conversation we had nine months ago, except now it really involves the entire country. Forty-four states, clear upward trend.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, it's the same conversation but somehow the numbers keep getting astronomically higher. I mean, yes, we have been having this conversation but 5,000 -- we might be headed towards 5,000 deaths a day, 6,000 deaths a day? How can -- how can you and the modelers who look at this -- how can they tell when we're going to peak?

GUPTA: I think it's really hard. I think the model -- it's interesting, Alisyn. When you look at the models, what the models sort of counted on was that once you get to a certain number of new cases per day, a certain number of hospitalizations that the states would compensate. The states would react just like the body reacts when it starts to get sick. It puts in all these compensatory mechanisms. We're not seeing that right now in many states around the country so that's why the numbers continue to go up.

And as far as when it's going to peak or I think even more importantly, how long does it stay at that peak? Do you get to the top and then come down quickly or do we plateau at this unfathomably high number of new deaths per day? You know, we don't know yet. It's going to be hard to see.

A lot of interest and focus, understandably, on the vaccines. And the vaccines, ultimately, will have an impact. But it's not going to change -- I mean, as much as I hate to say it, it's not going to change the numbers that we're talking about right now.

BERMAN: Sanjay, you are now a fully-vaccinated individual. You received the second dose of the Pfizer vaccine just moments ago. Tell us what that was like and where we are -- or what that means, really, in our path to vaccinate most Americans.

GUPTA: Well, you know -- I mean, I think personally, it's a -- it's a reassuring feeling for sure. You know, I mean, it will be seven days or so from now when I will have the fully-protective effects of that second shot that I just received.

And, you know, it's one of those things -- I wasn't that worried that I was going to get sick and then you get the second shot and you still feel this relief. You feel this sort of weight that comes off your shoulders.

At the same time, you know, it's become fully clear that the actual getting shots into arms in people across the country hasn't gone as quickly as people would like.

[07:55:02]

Here in Georgia, for example, according to the Georgia Department of Health, about 25 percent of the vaccines that have been distributed have actually been used to inoculate people. They've got to get those numbers up, obviously. That's been the big rate-limiting step and so many people are sort of focusing on that around the country.

I think that the overall amount of inoculation is going to go up. But when we do the math, in order to -- by the end of May to get to that number of around 240 million people in this country -- that herd immunity number inoculated -- that means we'd have to be doing about 1 1/2 million to two million shots per day to get there. And obviously, we're not close to that right now.

So is the private sector -- the CVS, Walgreens -- is there going to be better partnerships between the federal and state governments? Are all these things going to happen? Because if they don't, it's going to take a long time to get to those numbers.

CAMEROTA: Well, Sanjay, I just want to ask you about that because only 5.9 million doses have been administered. Obviously, a fraction of what was projected and promised.

President-elect Joe Biden has promised 100 million vaccinations in his first 100 days in office. So just help me mentally prepare right now. Is that going to be achievable?

GUPTA: I've talked to lots of people about this exact point within the existing task force, the incoming task force, people in the private sector. And the answer comes back that this is achievable but there's many things that are going to have to change in order for that to happen.

Right now, I think what has been described to me is that there has been a handoff. Operation Warp Speed has been able to get these vaccines to the states but many of the states then did not have the necessary infrastructure in order to be able to do the job that they have to do.

I'm here at Grady Hospital, for example. This hospital is as busy as they've been, really, throughout this pandemic in terms of taking care of COVID patients. At the same time, they're also inoculating a lot of health care workers. They going to start inoculating people over the age of 65.

The point is that there's a lot of strain and a lot of surge on these systems right now in order to get the job done.

I was talking to Dr. Montgomery Rice. You'll remember her from the last time we got inoculations. And she points out that personnel -- just simply having the personnel to be able to administer the shots is challenging.

The CVS and the Walgreens -- they were essentially told a week before that they would need to be responsible for inoculating all the long- term care facility residents. Why just a week before? We've known for months that these vaccines were going to roll out at some point. There's a lot of catch-up that needs to happen.

So, Alisyn, I don't -- I don't know the answer. This feels like the testing problem in some ways, again. We're going to ramp up testing. We kept hearing that in the spring of last year and we never really got there. I hope the same thing doesn't happen with the vaccines. I am more optimistic about this considering how many different sort of organizations are in play here -- the private sector, the feds, and the states.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thank you for explaining all of that, and thank you for sharing your own personal journey with getting the vaccination with us. We'll talk to you soon.

GUPTA: Yes, you got it. Thank you.

CAMEROTA: We want to remember now some of the more than 365,000 Americans lost to coronavirus.

Simone Parker taught high school science in Kentucky for 19 years. Officials with the Trigg County School System tell the "Courier- Journal" she was quote "an extraordinary educator skilled at bringing shy students out of their shells." Parker was only 46 years old.

Shirley Flores was an Air Force vet who worked her way up through the U.S. Postal Service from rural letter carrier to postmaster at three New Mexico post offices before retiring last year. Her son tells the "Las Cruces Sun News" she loved volunteering to help teenagers so much she had planned to go back to school to get a master's in social work. She was 58 years old.

Beto Garcia served as -- served the people of Roma, Texas as a law enforcer -- sorry, a law officer for 36 years, with 27 of them as police chief. He was an advocate for community policing. And during his last four years as chief, Roma consistently ranked among the top 10 safest cities in Texas.

We have a lot of breaking news this morning so let's get right to it.

ANNOUNCER: This is CNN breaking news.

BERMAN: All right, good morning, everyone, and welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And we do begin with breaking news.

Moments ago, right here on NEW DAY, the Assistant Speaker of the House Katherine Clark told us the House will hold a vote to impeach President Trump as early as the middle of next week, she said -- if Mike Pence doesn't invoke the 25th Amendment, which our indications are he will not. He has indicated that he will not do so. They will hold that impeachment vote by the middle of next week, so we now have a timeline.

Overnight, a Capitol police officer, Brian Sicknick, died from injuries suffered after Donald Trump sent the mob to the Capitol.

Donald Trump put out a scripted video where for the first time, he acknowledged out loud that someone will be president on January 20th.