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Assistant Speaker: House Could Hold Trump Impeachment Vote Next Week If VP Pence and Cabinet Do Not Remove President From Office. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 08, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Donald Trump put out a scripted video where for the first time he acknowledged out loud that someone would be president on January 20th, and he tried to condemn the deadly mob terror, but there's really another video you need to see taken by videographer Donald Trump Jr. just before his father told the crowd to go to the capitol with the hopes of overturning the results of the election.

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BERMAN: So you can see Kimberly Guilfoyle positively giddy just before they told a mob to go to the capitol. Dan Scavino, Kayleigh McEnany, Donald Trump himself, all full of smiles, literally dancing in anticipation of what they were about to tell the mob. Overnight, Education Secretary Betsy DeVos became the second cabinet member to resign. Ted Cruz, the political general who led the charge to overturn the election made the absurd claim overnight that he has always stood up to Donald Trump is laughable. He championed the dangerous election lies that fueled the insurrection. This morning Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick is dead.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Dozens of the rioters have been arrested. Federal prosecutors say they are looking at all of the people who vandalized the capitol and incited violence, including President Trump. CNN has learned that in recent weeks President Trump has asked his lawyers about his power to pardon himself.

BERMAN: We're going to begin with the breaking news made moments ago right here on NEW DAY on impeachment. Joining us, CNN global affairs analyst Susan Glasser, she's a staff writer at "The New Yorker," CNN political analyst David Gregory, and CNN senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe, he's a former deputy director of the FBI. I want to play for you what Assistant House Speaker Katherine Clark told us in terms of a timeline on an impeachment vote. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) REP. KATHERINE CLARK, (D) ASSISTANT HOUSE SPEAKER: If the reports are correct and Mike Pence is not going to uphold his oath of office and remove the president and help protect our democracy, then we will move forward with impeachment to do just that.

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BERMAN: And she told me that could happen and, in fact, will happen by the middle of next week. David Gregory, your reaction?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: It's a significant step. Obviously, it's unprecedented. So much has been unprecedented about Donald Trump's presidency. My suspicion at this point is that it will be largely symbolic. I haven't seen any indication that the Senate would move with the House to go to an impeachment trial. But I think that Mitch McConnell wouldn't do that, and they wouldn't have those votes anyway.

But I think what is significant about it is that Democrats want to go on record historically as having opposed the president and called out his unconstitutional actions for what they are on January 6th. And secondly, they want to demonstrate for the historical record that there would be Republicans who would vote to support that, and that would be significant even if it's relatively a small number on the House side.

CAMEROTA: Yes. In fact, that's what's different. That's what makes this impeachment different. And Susan, we just heard from Senator Ben Sasse, a Republican, who said he would be open to this. Listen.

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SEN. BEN SASSE (R-NE): The house, if they come together and have a process, I will definitely consider whatever articles they might move, because, as I've told you, I believe the president has disregarded his oath of office. He swore an oath to the American people to preserve, protect and defend the Constitution. He acted against that. What he did was wicked.

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CAMEROTA: Wow. Susan, your thoughts?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Alisyn, obviously this would be unprecedented even in the context of a Trump presidency that has blown up all norms. We've never had a president of the United States who faced not one, but two impeachments. Because it comes so much at the end of his term, I think everything David said is correct.

The other point to make about impeachment at the very end of a term is I think there's a palpable fear at this point about what else Donald Trump could do without any constraints. And I do think what you've heard from some Republicans as well as Democrats in the last few days was an effort to reestablish for Trump that there are parameters around his authority and his presidency, to reestablish the sense of constraints, because there was a real fear as that mob raged the other day that Donald Trump wasn't listening to anyone at all, not even his advisers, to get him to do the right thing and to at least say please don't loot the symbol of our democracy. And so I think the worry here is how can we get him to realize, even in the short time remaining of his presidency, he does not have absolute authority to do things that might be worrisome.

[08:05:01]

BERMAN: And one of the concerns that people have is that Donald Trump might pardon himself for many things, but including for whatever role he may have played in inciting the mob that committed this insurrection, led to the death of Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick. Andy McCabe, the news coming out of the D.C. U.S. attorney is that he won't rule out prosecuting the president of the United States. What legal jeopardy is the president in this morning?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, John, I think he could be in significant legal jeopardy. What we know at this point is that there is ample reason to conduct a deep and thorough full scope investigation of the president and everyone around him who may have participated in or been responsible for to some degree this attack on our government.

Look, this was a situation that I was unfortunately in, you will remember a few years ago, where when you are confronted with undeniable evidence of federal criminal activity, you have an obligation, I believe, to investigate that activity, whether or not the person at the center of it is the president of the United States. Here we are again. And once again you see our Justice Department elements, our FBI agents and others, are put in the incredibly awkward and painful position of having to investigate the president of the United States, but it is absolutely the right thing to do.

Whether the prosecutors and the new attorney general will decide that there is enough evidence to move forward and to request an indictment, that's a decision that remains to be seen. But the fact is it needs to be thoroughly investigated now. And if the U.S. attorney in D.C. said anything other than what we heard yesterday, I'd be shocked and offended.

CAMEROTA: David Gregory, 12 days in a normal life is the blink of an eye. In the Trump presidency it's an eternity. I was reminded that this week was the audio of the Brad Raffensperger pressure call of President Trump saying I just need you to find 11,800 more votes. That was this week, OK. That feels like light years ago.

And so places as not liberal as the "Wall Street Journal" are basically saying it is not going to be the 25th Amendment and impeachment can't act fast enough. It's time for the president to resign. Here is what they write this morning, "This was an assault on the constitutional process of transferring power after an election. It was also an assault on the legislature from an executive sworn to uphold the laws of the United States. This goes beyond merely refusing to concede defeat. In our view, it crosses a constitutional line that Mr. Trump hasn't previously crossed. It is impeachable. If Mr. Trump wants to avoid a second impeachment, his best path would be to take personal responsibility and resign." So those are three different outcomes that could happen in the next 12 days. What are you preparing for?

GREGORY: I guess what I'm hopeful for is quiet, that we just get through this remaining time with quiet. I believe there could be these steps that are taken that are symbolic, I think impeachment more likely than invoking the 25th amendment. But it's head spinning, right, because we haven't seen people stand up to President Trump. And we can have the debate about too little too late and all the rest, but there's certainly a continuum of behavior.

And the president has violated the Constitution. He has also led an assault on our elections. And that's something that I have to tell you I have been very angered by in the last couple of days, that even Republicans who are condemning the president are engaging in a kind of shuffle around the qualifier, which is, but we have to go to the states and we have to deal with these election problems.

And I keep -- this is the big lie, that unfortunately ardent Trump supporters, they've been lied to that somehow they've been disenfranchised, and that's lasting damage. There has not been fraud. There are not widespread problems. There are issues in terms of ballots soliciting votes that could be addressed at the state level. But that has been conflated into somehow there's something broken in our absentee balloting system. That has done grave damage because going forward that leaves people to think that my vote doesn't matter, and that elections somehow are broken, and that the system is broken. That is the legacy of Donald Trump. That's the damage he has done. And it is at least comforting to see traditional allies coming out and condemning him for that.

BERMAN: It's interesting, based on what the "Wall Street Journal" explicitly wrote overnight and what Katherine Clark told us just a short time ago, Susan, what is an issue for many members of Congress and people who read the Constitution is that the president attacked Congress.

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You had one branch of government literally launching an attack on a second branch of government, which why -- and I agree with David -- I don't know that they can get their act together to remove the president from office by January 20th. I do also think it's more than symbolic that there are members of Congress who feel they can't let this stand. And if they let this stand without an official action, which impeachment is the only official action at their disposal here, that it will affect the country for generations to come. They're taking this very seriously.

GLASSER: Well, that's right. Look, it is in effect tantamount to a motion of censure because of the timeline and because it's unlikely to have any practical effect in terms of removing him from office. And by the way, John, they could do that. They could pass a motion of censure in both the House and the Senate. I would imagine there would be support for that. That could be -- end up being the outcome, because it's extremely unlikely that even if the house were to fast track articles of impeachment, and I believe that's what they're talking about, they would actually have to bypass the Judiciary Committee, go straight to the floor in order to have time to accomplish this. You could not envision a trial even under the fastest of circumstances in the Senate, so maybe that's where you end up is a resolution of censure.

But the point I think that you're making about the Constitution is a really important one. Donald Trump has spent four years blowing up norms of government, acting recklessly, verbally and in other ways undermining democracy, but what he has done since the election is as straightforward an assault on the system of government itself as we've ever seen from an American president.

CAMEROTA: Andy, do you think that there's -- so many people just want justice. Obviously, OK, so those are the political ramifications for President Trump that he's facing today, and then just justice for what happened. Obviously, some of the folks that -- the rioters that went over there have been arrested. Some are being searched for by the FBI this morning. But in terms of the Rudy Giulianis who called for, what was it, trial by --

BERMAN: Trial by combat.

CAMEROTA: Trial by combat. Congressman Mo Brooks who said time for the ass kicking to start. And President Trump, who, as we know, whose words have incited the violence, but what comes of that?

MCCABE: Well, that's a great question, Alisyn. It causes you to wonder in this kind of race to the bottom of political speech and kind of violent invective that we have seen coming from the president and his supporters and Rudy Giuliani, at some point we have got to draw a line in the sand and say, this conduct is not protected political speech, it's unacceptable. And when you exhort a crowd, as Mo Brooks did, as Rudy Giuliani did, as Don Jr. did, and the president himself did, to go and attack another branch of our government, to attack the monument, the temple of our Constitution, there have to be criminal consequences to this.

Again, an investigation needs to be -- needs to be done to see if we have the evidence to move forward, because that's what's required in our system. But if the evidence is there, and it seems hard to believe that it wouldn't be, action must be taken to hold folks accountable, to send out that message that we are better than this, that we don't tolerate this sort of criminal activity in our country.

CAMEROTA: David Gregory, Andrew McCabe, Susan Glasser, thank you all very much.

So President Trump's former communications director did what the president could not bring himself to do when the capitol was under siege, tell his supporters the truth about the election. And she is speaking for the first time about why she quit the Trump administration. That's next.

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[08:17:36]

BERMAN: Breaking news: The House of Representatives could hold an impeachment vote against President Trump in a matter of days following the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Assistant Speaker Katherine Clark told us moments ago it could happen as soon as the middle of next week.

Joining us is Alyssa Farah. She's the former communications director under President Trump who stepped down at the beginning of December.

Alyssa, I appreciate your willingness to come on and talk to us.

You left in early December because you say you saw what was coming. What did you fear?

ALYSSA FARAH, FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: Well, John, thanks -- thanks again for having me.

And, first and foremost, I want to say what happened at the capitol was unacceptable, un-American, undemocratic, and any Republican, Democrat, person of any political stripes needs to be able to denounce it in the staunchest terms.

But I will tell you this, my -- I had growing concerns about the fact that I felt like we were misleading the public with this endeavor to say that the election was stolen. There began with being legitimate questions about fraud, about irregularities. This happens with most national elections and obviously when you're doing significant mail-in voting, but we had paths for recourse.

You know, more than 60 cases that went before different courts, many with conservative judges, and we -- it became abundantly clear we just didn't win. And that's okay. That's foundational to a democracy.

But when you have the president of the United States not telling that to the 74 million people who voted for him, it does a tremendous disservice to them and it worked up this frenzy and this sort of mob that we saw at the Capitol and it's just unacceptable.

BERMAN: You say the president and his advisers are directly responsible for what happened. Responsible for what?

FARAH: Well, first responsible for inciting this violence and this attack on such a symbolic part of our democracy, the United States Capitol. I mean, I served in the Capitol for the better portion of a decade. I walked those halls.

They allowed this myth, this lie to take a life of its own that the election might be overturned. What the president could have done in the hours that unfolded, and this is what truly broke my heart because he is a man that I served, I believe in America first policies, I believe in much of our policy agenda, but he could have used those hours to put out a forceful denunciation directly to the protesters to say, stand down.

[08:20:05] I'm asking you to dissipate. Leave the capitol. Go home. Vote. Elect Republicans, but this is not what we stand for.

And hours went by and lives were lost in the wake and he didn't come out and forcefully say that. And that's unacceptable at any level.

BERMAN: Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick is dead this morning, died overnight from his injuries suffered during the insurrection.

How responsible is the president for that?

FARAH: It's -- first and foremost, it's heartbreaking. My heart goes out to his family. Again, as someone who served at the Capitol, just like at the White House, you become friends with the Secret Service, I knew many of the Capitol police. They are good law enforcement officers who put their lives on the line to protect our nation's leaders.

And it's awful. I -- this all could have been avoided. That would be my message.

But the other message I want to make sure that the American people understand and, like I said, the 74 million people who supported this president, we lost, but that is okay. Vote -- get out and vote for Republicans if that's what you believe in. We can stand by the policies, but at this point we cannot stand by the man.

When the moment called for leadership, he did not do the right thing and lives were lost because of it.

BERMAN: Can I just ask you to be declarative about this? Will you say that the President of the United States Donald J. Trump lied to the American people?

FARAH: He did on the election and we -- people around him know better. We know that the results were not going to be overturned. We knew that it was a stunt to carry this on for days longer.

And I have to commend my former boss, Vice President Pence, who is a man of conviction and just the highest level of integrity. He did what his constitutional duty was. He wasn't going to rewrite the Constitution to get the outcome that he wanted.

BERMAN: So, Alyssa, you quit the first week of December because you say it was then that you began to realize what might happen and you do know that there are those asking this morning what took you so long.

What took you so long?

FARAH: And that's fair. And something I want to be clear about is, I believe in the policy agenda and much of what we accomplished and I am proud of much of it. You know, creating the most inclusive economy in American history, record low black unemployment, Hispanic unemployment, female unemployment. I'm somebody who believes in economic opportunity. And I was willing to serve and I also believe anytime you're asked to serve your nation, you should seriously consider saying yes, but when I lost the -- I knew I couldn't influence outcomes when this run away train of the election was stolen got wind underneath it, and that's when it was time for me to step down.

I wasn't going to mislead people. People I love, people I care about were believing it. They were saying, no, Alyssa, I think he's still going to pull it off.

And I would plead with people personally and privately, like, please know he is not going to. We lost the election and that is okay. That is what happens in a democracy, politics is cyclical.

But this was bound. If you tell people their vote was stolen so foundational to who we are as a country, of course, it's going to end in violence and in riots, and it's awful.

BERMAN: Do you ask yourself what more you could have done and sooner to prevent this?

FARAH: I -- specific to the election issue, I just don't know. I was ready to go out after election day and say, look, there were incredible things we should be proud of, record Hispanic turnout for Republicans, record black turnout for Republicans, electing so many women to the House of Representatives and say, you know, this president never planned to be in Washington forever, he didn't win, but there is a lot we should be proud of and our agenda is moving forward.

But I was asked to stand down and the message instead of the election was stolen is what won the day, and it's wrong, and the American people need to know you can trust your institutions, you can trust your vote. We didn't win because we just came up short and that happens.

BERMAN: Would you feel safer this morning if President Trump resigned?

FARAH: I think that it's something he should seriously consider. I don't think that when you've got just a number of days left, there's any need to carry on kind of the charade of an impeachment. The people's house needs to get back to work. We need to get aid to tens of millions of Americans.

But, listen, I think Vice President Pence has stepped in as the real leader, getting the National Guard during this crisis that unfolded.

And, John, I would just say to you, you know, I've traveled all over the world and spent times in democracies much more fragile than ours and what I saw in the Capitol is not representative of who America is.

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BERMAN: Just to be clear, you would feel safer today if President Trump resigned and Vice President Mike Pence took over? FARAH: I would.

BERMAN: Could you ever support Donald Trump again for election?

FARAH: I wouldn't, and just candidly, there is a lot that he did right, there is a lot in the America first policy agenda that Republicans should hang on to.

I want us to keep those votes of the 74 million people. I want us to build on the good of Donald Trump.

[08:25:03]

But in a moment that called for leadership, that called for compassion, that calls for quick judgment to save lives, he came up short. He didn't make the right call.

BERMAN: To those who say to you, Alyssa Farah, you're doing this now because you want a job somewhere after this, you're doing this now to clean up your own reputation, you say?

FARAH: Well, I have a job for one, but I stand by the positions I held in the White House, the public statements I made, the private counsel that I gave. My belief was always it's better to be in the room and try to influence outcomes for the better than to cede that position of authority to somebody who may not have the best interest of the country at heart, who may not have my values and convictions.

I consider myself proud of my service, but I understand that for many people we are hurting because of the direction that this president has taken us, and to them I would extend it is time for us to rebuild as a party and as a country, to come together and to remember fundamentally, there is more that unites us as Americans than that divides us.

BERMAN: Alyssa Farah, as I said, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate your willingness to talk to us, talk to the American people and importantly talk to the 70 million people who voted for Donald Trump. We appreciate your time.

FARAH: Thank you.

BERMAN: So House Democrats moving quickly to lay the groundwork for an impeachment vote as early as next week. Majority Whip James Clyburn joins us next.

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