Return to Transcripts main page

CNN Newsroom

Democrats Introduce Article of Impeachment; Interview with Rep. Tom Malinowski (D-NJ); Security Resignations Follow Capitol Events. Aired 2-2:30p ET

Aired January 11, 2021 - 14:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

BRIANNA KEILAR, CNN HOST: But once again, 156 years after the Civil War ended, this evil is still in America's bloodstream, and that evil was allowed to walk into the People's House and desecrate it. And if you have any information about this man, contact the FBI at 1-800- CALL-FBI.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE (voice-over): This is CNN breaking news.

KEILAR: It is the top of the hour, I am Brianna Keilar.

And the clock is ticking now on history, Democrats in Congress are moving ahead with their efforts to oust President Trump from office. They're asking Vice President Mike Pence to do it right now by invoking the 25th Amendment. They floated a resolution in the House this morning, but Republicans objected.

Democrats have also formally introduced an article of impeachment and it says, quote, "Donald John Trump engaged in high Crimes and Misdemeanors by inciting violence against the Government of the United States-- He also willfully made statements that, in context, encouraged -- and foreseeably resulted in -- lawless action at the Capitol." We could have a vote on impeachment Wednesday, and Democrats expect it to pass.

Today, the National Park closed down the Washington Monument, and this is going to continue until after Joe Biden is inaugurated as the next president. They're reacting to these fears that there are going to be new protests or action by pro-Trump supporters.

In the meantime, investigators are also looking into whether current members of law enforcement or the military took part in the riot.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MAYOR MURIEL BOWSER (D), WASHINGTON, D.C.: People coming to demonstrate peacefully are very different than the people we saw storm the Capitol the other day. And I think that it will be shown that those people were organized, trained people who went into that building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: Now, the FBI says they have received as many as 40,000 digital tips so far as they're looking to make more arrests.

After seeing rioters with zip-tie handcuffs, federal investigators are wondering if part of the plan here was actually to take hostages, which could have included House Speaker Nancy Pelosi and-or Vice President Mike Pence, who had been targeted by President Trump.

I do want to get some breaking news now. The D.C. attorney general says he is looking at potentially charging President Trump and others for inciting violence during the speeches that were given at the rally directly before this crowd descended on the Capitol.

And our senior justice correspondent Evan Perez is following this for us.

What can you tell us, Evan?

EVAN PEREZ, CNN SENIOR JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, these were comments made by Karl Racine, who is the D.C. attorney general -- and that is separate from the jurisdiction of the Justice Department, the U.S. attorney here.

It's not clear exactly what Racine is talking about because the jurisdiction, there is a limitation on what the attorney general's office can really do here in Washington, D.C. All criminal prosecutions generally are handled by the U.S. attorney.

And we know that there have been comments, obviously from Mike Sherwin, who is the acting U.S. attorney, who has said that they're looking at everything, that they are taking a look at every single part of this, including potential for people who were inciting some of this violence. And so all of that is on the table for the U.S. attorney, the federal prosecutors.

Karl Racine is sort of a different office, he's part of the local jurisdiction and it's not clear to me what jurisdiction or what powers he would have to be able to charge the president of the United States. He says the investigation is ongoing, he says nothing has been decided yet but he's taking, it appears, a rather expansive view of what his powers are. We'll see what exactly that means -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Certainly. And so you're hinting at the fact that this may or may not yield anything, so we know that you'll be keeping an eye on that --

PEREZ: Right.

KEILAR: -- Evan, to let us know if it does. Evan Perez for us.

And we still have not received any kind of reaction from the White House on this push for impeachment. CNN White House correspondent Kaitlan Collins joins me.

I know, Kaitlan, that you have talked to your sources, you've talked to some insiders. What are they telling you about where the president is on this right now?

KAITLAN COLLINS, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, it's remarkable how isolated the president has been this weekend, and you know, kind of disarmed with no Twitter account for the president to fire off his thoughts on, as he so typically does. Of course, those are often ramped up on the weekends, but since the president was banned from Twitter on Friday, we have not heard from him yet, which is remarkable in and of itself.

But there have been no other statements from the White House attributed to the president's name so far on what's been going on, on the possible charges that Evan was just talking about, or on what you're seeing happening on Capitol Hill with this potential second impeachment for President Trump, which would make him the first president to ever be impeached twice, coming down potentially.

And so remember this weekend, the president was initially supposed to go to Camp David with some senior staff and some allies; they cancelled that trip pretty abruptly last week, given the events of what happened. And so the president remained at the White House, he did not go golfing and we have not heard from him.

[14:05:00]

We also didn't see him today as they were giving the Medal of Freedom to Congressman Jim Jordan. Of course, someone who did play a key role in what was happening last Wednesday, in objecting to that certification process for Joe Biden. But they did not let cameras inside the room for that event today, Brianna, so we have not actually seen from him.

We do know that there was a chance the president was going to make some public remarks today in his speech, but it does not sound like, right now, that is actually going to be moving forward. And so we'll be waiting to see what he does the rest of this week.

We know he's going to go to the border wall, make a few other events that were supposed to be about burnishing his legacy, but now it's going to be about the president making a comment as we are seeing how his presidency is, you know, in tatters in these last few days of him being in office.

KEILAR: Yes. Kaitlan, thank you so much, Kaitlan Collins live from the White House.

We're learning that one of the Democratic lawmakers pushing for impeachment is receiving threatening messages. CNN's senior congressional correspondent Manu Raju is on the Hill.

Manu, what has happened here?

MANU RAJU, CNN CHIEF CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, Congressman David Cicilline, who is leading the impeachment effort in the House and his (ph) pushing (ph) draft (ph), that article of impeachment, accusing the president of inciting insurrection, has received a series of very threatening voicemails from individuals in the aftermath of Wednesday's events on Capitol Hill.

Some source provided our colleague Lauren Fox with some of these threatening messages, one of which says, "If you impeach him, civil war is on, buddy."

Now, there are also a number of very expletive-filled rants that have been directed towards Congressman Cicilline. And this, I should say, has happened to a number of Republicans and Democrats around Wednesday's events and afterwards, being harassed at various locations as they're traveling and the like.

The sergeant at arms in the House and the Senate, along with the Capitol Police, are increasing their security for members as they travel through the nation's airports. They've been asked to provide their itineraries to the relevant law enforcement authorities on Capitol Hill so they can be greeted by law enforcement, be protected as they travel through.

Now, at the same time, Brianna, this comes as the push to impeach the president is fully under way. Right now, House Democrats are having a caucus call to discuss their next steps, which include a vote as soon as tomorrow on an effort to try to force the president out via the 25th Amendment.

And then come Wednesday, we expect there to be a vote to impeach the president, making him the only president in history who would be impeached twice. Now, the majority leader of the House, Steny Hoyer, told me he expects a vote could be on Wednesday.

And I also asked him about the discussion about when the Senate trial would begin. Because, Brianna, as you know, as soon as they send the article of impeachment over to the Senate, the Senate has to begin the trial by the next afternoon.

There's some discussion about punting until later in the Biden term, let him get his cabinet filled and the like and sending the articles later. But Steny Hoyer, the majority leader, told me he does not favor that approach, he wants to send the article of impeachment over as soon as they're done here in the House.

That could mean, Brianna, a Senate trial to convict the former president, Donald Trump, after he leaves office, after Joe Biden is sworn in, in the early days of the Biden administration to ensure that Trump doesn't have another term in office -- Brianna.

KEILAR: Yes, and we actually just heard from the president-elect. He said he is in touch with Democratic leaders in both the House and the Senate. You know, it seems pretty clear that he would like to begin his administration with his legislative priorities. But at the same time this is certainly a situation the Democrats feel needs to be dealt with, that there needs to be accountability. How are Democrats sort of balancing that, Manu?

RAJU: Yes, they're struggling with that, that's one of the big considerations. I'm told, on a conference call on Friday, Congressman Adam Schiff, who chairs the House Intelligence Committee, led the impeachment effort last time, raised that specter.

He said, look, there's going to be a trial that would take place likely in the new term, we have to think about how, once we start moving down this road, what is going to happen next. Now, he supports impeaching this president, as do other Democrats.

So that is what they have been struggling with, which is why some have floated the idea of simply censuring Donald Trump. That is not as far as Democratic leaders want to go, but, Brianna, some Republicans, I'm told have been discussing whether they should get behind a censure resolution, to make it clear they don't approve of the president's actions but to stop short of impeaching the president.

So those kinds of discussions are still happening, but at the moment they're pushing forward on impeachment and they're going to push it over to the Senate to act soon after Biden is sworn in -- Brianna.

KEILAR: All right, Manu, thank you so much. And old habits die hard, you are our chief congressional correspondent, congratulations on that, Manu Raju --

RAJU: Thanks.

KEILAR: -- for us live from Capitol Hill.

Next, two men carrying zip ties and wearing tactical gear are the latest arrests in the wake of that attack on the Capitol. We'll have some details on where this investigation stands.

Plus, a disturbing report that the Capitol Police chief asked for help from the National Guard six times as this siege unfolded. The reporter who broke that story will join us, live.

[14:10:05]

And just in, House Democrats moving to censure one of their colleagues for his role in the riot, one of the Democrats who's sponsoring this move will join us live as well.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KEILAR: One of the first Democrats to suggest impeachment after the siege on the Capitol was Congressman Tom Malinowski of New Jersey. He served as an assistant secretary of state under the Obama administration, and he is with us now here live.

Congressman, thank you so much for being with us.

REP. TOM MALINOWSKI (D-NJ): Thank you so much.

KEILAR: You've tweeted that you've spoken with Republican colleagues who agree that President Trump, quote, "needs to go now." Are you expecting that a significant number of Republicans may vote with you?

[14:15:06] MALINOWSKI: You know, I've quit predicting what they're actually going to do when it comes time to vote. All I know is that when we were there on Wednesday, under siege with our lives threatened, waiting to go back to the House floor to finish our work, there were quite a few Republicans who were just as angry as I was, and who were speaking in exactly the same language.

Right now, I think a lot of them are afraid. They're afraid of their own base, which is threatening their lives. And they're also, I think, afraid of the judgment of history. And they're torn between those two, those fears.

KEILAR: And obviously -- so they're afraid on the judgment of history, that maybe they think the right thing to do is to vote against the president. Are you saying anything to them to that effect? I mean, are you trying to persuade any of them? what are you saying?

MALINOWSKI: I think what I would say is that we either hang together or we hang separately, that there is a violent extremist insurrectionist mob out there that has been stoked and that has been growing, courtesy of QAnon, courtesy of extreme leaders in their party including the president for the last four years.

And these people who stormed the Capitol, and who are threatening to do it again, next week, are out for them too. They were shouting, hang Mike Pence. They're probably more angry at the Republicans right now, the Republicans who had integrity and who certified Joe Biden's election, than they are at us.

And right now, we need to find unity in this country against this threat, we need to find unity to restore law and order and respect for these rules. And that is where they (INAUDIBLE) safety.

KEILAR: You just introduced a resolution to censure Alabama Congressman Mo Brooks for his role in the insurrection. And just to let our viewers know, this is some of what -- just some of what he said to Trump supporters just before the attack on the Capitol.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MO BROOKS (R-AL): I've got a message that I need you to take to your heart and take back home. And alone the way, stop at the Capitol. Today is the day American patriots start taking down names and kicking ass.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KEILAR: What do you think a censure would do to the congressman? Is this something that you think he would take seriously?

MALINOWSKI: It's a serious first step. What it means is that if the House votes to censure -- and I believe we will -- that the congressman would be forced to stand in the well of the House and hear the resolution read. It would be a Scarlet Letter, it would be a vote of condemnation by his colleagues. And I believe -- I'm quite certain that many Republicans would vote with us on this. But I think it's a first step. We're going to need to take a broader

look at whether he and potentially other members did more than just say outrageous things, whether they may even have colluded in some way with these people who were attacking the Capitol and threatening our lives.

That, you know, that will require due process and investigation. It could lead to censure, it could lead to worse sanction. But for now, what Congressman Brooks said to the very mob that were marching on the Capitol to kill Mike Pence, to kill his fellow colleagues, that's easy to judge and I hope that we move quickly to do so.

KEILAR: You mentioned the possibility of collusion between Republican members of Congress and some of those who carried out this siege. What questions do you have about that, what evidence do you have of that, what have you heard?

MALINOWSKI: Well, I don't have answers and I'm not going to accuse anybody of anything without -- anything that serious without significant evidence. But certainly there have been accusations made, including by some of the rioters, on social media, who said that they were in contact with particular members, that they had planned the massing, the storming of the Capitol with them.

I don't know if that's true, and I'm not going to, again, censure or expel somebody based on a supposition. But I do think there's enough for us to launch an investigation, and to give these members a chance to answer for what they did or didn't do.

KEILAR: Are you confidence that the Capitol will be secure during President-elect and then President Biden's inauguration?

MALINOWSKI: This was a wake-up call for America, it was a wake-up call for our law enforcement agencies. I think they all know now, they're not dealing with quote-unquote protestors or demonstrators, they are dealing with an increasingly organized domestic terrorism movement that has potentially millions of adherents, at least philosophically, in our country.

[14:20:11]

And so I think they're going to be ready. And I think ready not just to play defense by putting up fences and bringing troops to Washington, D.C. -- I hate that, by the way, I hate all these fences going up. We need to play offense, we need to go out and start infiltrating these groups, we need to make arrests of those who trespassed on Capitol grounds, as the FBI and police across the country are doing.

We need to take this fight to them, to make clear that law enforcement does not stand with them, that they are on the wrong side of the law and the wrong side of history and they will be held accountable.

KEILAR: Congressman, thank you so much for coming on, we really appreciate your time.

MALINOWSKI: Thank you very much.

KEILAR: Authorities are still tracking down suspects from the Capitol attack because thousands of people who participated were allowed to walk away. it's still not completely clear why federal authorities weren't prepared on Wednesday, but the "Washington Post" reports the chief of Capitol Police asked for help days before the attack.

"Two days before Congress was set to formalize President-elect Joe Biden's victory, Capitol Police Chief Steven Sund was growing increasingly worried about the size of the pro-Trump crowds expected to stream into Washington in protest.

"To be on the safe side, Sund asked House and Senate security officials for permission to request that the D.C. National Guard be placed on standby in case he needed quick backup. But, Sund said Sunday, they turned him down."

And joining me now is one of the journalists who reported this story, Aaron C. Davis, investigative reporter for the "Washington Post."

I think this is something that is -- you know, this answers a question, which is, why was there not backup? And you know, just explain to us a little bit more about what happened here. I mean, lawmakers were trapped in the Capitol, wondering where the National Guard was.

AARON C. DAVIS, POLITICAL INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER, THE WASHINGTON POST: Right. Well, there are so many things that have gone wrong here that we've learned. But in particular, Capitol Police chief, as you said, Steven Sund, so much of this falls on him and his force and who -- they were the ones defending the Capitol.

He says that on Monday, two days beforehand, as you said, he asked his superiors inside the Capitol Security System -- that being the Senate sergeant of arms, the House sergeant of arms -- if he could essentially have an emergency declaration to deputize and have the National Guard soldiers in D.C. ready to go if he needed.

And he says that Paul Irving, on the House side, said he was worried about the optics of having soldiers stand guard as if there was really an emergency situation here to be dealt with. And then on the Senate side, Mike Stenger, the Senate sergeant at arms, said that we don't need to go that far, why don't you informally call the D.C. National Guard general and see if he can just have people ready if we need it.

That's not really the way it works with the National Guard. These are firemen, these are police officers, these are office workers in some cases and it takes hours for them to get back, get their gear and mobilize, even in the most urgent situations.

And so he was not only shot down by his superiors, but then on the day of the siege taking place, there was a phone call in which he made, as he tells it, an urgent request of the Pentagon to deploy the National Guard, to bring them to the Capitol.

And he says that on that call as well, a general in the Secretary of the Army's office, the Secretary of the Army staff, said we were worried about the optics also, of having soldiers there with policemen, out there, at (ph) the Capitol wall. And so it took, then a period of time after that, for the Department of Defense, the Pentagon to fully mobilize the National Guard.

Two areas of real big concern now, with Chief Sund telling us that he was -- you know, this concern was dismissed before the siege and then during the siege, that it went too slowly.

KEILAR: And it's -- look, we've seen a lot of video after the fact that showed us just how bad things were. I mean, it was clear in real time that things were bad, but we learned that they were even worse. There was still enough information for there to be a call as soon as this happened from law enforcement.

And I wonder, it sounds then like the sergeant at arms on both sides here, that they were operating under an assumption that this crowd actually would not turn on the Capitol. Would that be correct?

DAVIS: I think that's fair. And you know, even the chief, who has since resigned -- and actually all three of them have resigned, the House, Senate sergeant at arms, Senate side, and Capitol Police chief have all resigned.

Sund said in a statement, his only public statement, a couple days ago, that they had a robust plan for a First Amendment protest. And this was not a First Amendment protest, that he's never seen a mob like this in 35 years of police work in D.C.

[14:25:01]

And this is the man who was in charge of the inauguration of President Obama, led the response to the Navy Yard mass shooting years ago, and says he's never seen a mass crowd act like this. And so really, they had not planned for it.

Even though he asked for backup, you know, in some degree, you're right, the responsibility falls with him, falls with so many here to not have imagined such a scenario unfold.

KEILAR: Aaron Davis, great reporting from you and your colleagues. Thank you so much for bringing it to us.

DAVIS: (INAUDIBLE).

KEILAR: Thousands of troops are on their way to the nation's capital right now. The National Guard plans to have at least 10,000 troops in Washington, D.C. by the end of the week. This is coming as law enforcement in the nation's capital and around the country are bracing for more extremist violence amid the transition of power.

The threat of violence is leading the National Park Service to close the Washington Monument to visitors for the next two weeks. Today, the mayor of Washington, D.C., Muriel Bowser, urged people to stay away from the city and instead watch the inauguration on TV. Josh Campbell is with us now, he is CNN's security correspondent. And

you know, Josh, we're hearing this from the D.C mayor, asking President Trump and the acting Homeland Security director, Tom Wolf, to declare a pre-disaster declaration. And she's also asking the Trump administration to cancel public gathering permits between now and January 24th. I mean, those seem like obvious moves but they haven't happened?

JOSH CAMPBELL, CNN SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: That's right. And it's hard to look at that and not think that there is a heavy dose of politics that's infused in trying to secure the nation's capital.

And the reason I say that is because just look in the past, you know, last year at the way President Trump handled violence on federal property. Go look at Portland, Oregon, where you had a group of far- left extremists that were engaged in attacking a federal building? Trump sent in the cavalry, saying that he would not abide threats to federal property.

Compare that to what we're seeing now in the nation's capital, where we just saw an insurgence on the United States Capitol. There are questions about a delay in sending federal resources immediately, and now you have local officials, the mayor, begging for resources, begging for the resources that would indicate that they wouldn't see a repeat of what we saw.

And yet we see a delay, it's hard to look at that and not believe that that's politics. I think the reason is, is because for the Trump administration to declare a disaster in advance is essentially to say that his supporters are responsible for a disaster. I don't think that he wants to label them that even though these are the resources the city needs.

And then secondly, frankly, I don't think that he really cares. I mean, we haven't seen an indication yet that he cares about securing the city. He becomes a private citizen at 12:00 on January 20th, it will be Joe Biden's problem. But if you're a city official in Washington, D.C., obviously, you are very concerned.

KEILAR: Indeed. All right, hey, Josh, thank you so much for that, Josh Campbell with us.

Just in, there is some new CNN reporting on the potential of the president self-pardoning. We have Pamela Brown to join us next with that reporting.

[14:28:04]

Plus, the fallout from the attack is having ripple effects all over corporate America, and now the PGA has said its championship will not be played at the president's New Jersey golf club next year. Hear how the Trump organization is responding, they're not taking it well.