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Preparations Underway for Senate Trial after Historic Trump Impeachment; Questions Swirl Around Possible Insider Help for Capitol Attack; Trump Impeached for Inciting Insurrection, Ten Republicans Voted with Democrats. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: The United States.

[07:00:00]

Well, according to The New York Times, he's telling people, I won, I won the election.

What happens with the Senate trial? What does Trump do next? What does Joe Biden do next? What more do we know about the scope and depth of the attack on the U.S. Capitol? We have new reporting on all of this morning.

The Senate trial after Trump leaves off next week. House managers tell CNN they have not yet decided whether to seek witnesses or subpoena documents.

Overnight, President-elect Joe Biden urged lawmakers not to let the trial get in the way of doing the crucial work of fighting the pandemic.

Now, ten House Republicans did vote in favor of trump's impeachment, that's ten more than last time. Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell says he has not ruled out voting to convict Trump and there are new developments as to how many Republican senators feel the same way.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Also developing this morning, a new intelligence bulletin warns that domestic extremists are likely more emboldened to carry out attacks after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol, which they see as a success. Investigators warn that online chatter is, quote, off the charts. The National Guard is preparing to find improvised explosive devices, like pipe bombs and Molotov cocktails ahead of next week's inauguration.

A federal law enforcement official tells CNN that the evidence suggests that the siege at the Capitol was planned. We have brand new video this morning that captures even more of how violent this attack was. This was not a protest gone wrong. The FBI says it has received tens of thousands of digital tips, including some that appear to show members of Congress with extremists who later showed up at the insurrection.

BERMAN: Joining us now, CNN White House Correspondent John Harwood and CNN National Political Reporter, Maeve Reston.

John, my question is, what happens now? What are the open questions you have about the Senate trial that we now understand will not begin until Joe Biden takes office?

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, the biggest questions, John, are how long the trial lasts and to what extent does it interfere with the open to Joe Biden's presidency. Of course, there's also the question of whether Donald Trump is going to be the first president ever convicted by the Senate. I would say that the chances of that are less than 50/50, but it's not impossible. And the fact that Mitch McConnell has maintained a strategic ambiguity is something that gives us all a question mark over that.

My understanding is that Senate Democrats hope to get this wrapped up by the end of January, so it would only be about ten days if they can do that, ten days into Joe Biden's term. And, obviously, he's going to need to stand up a government as rapidly as he can. And I think that's something that, under the circumstances, Republicans as well as Democrats are going to share the desire to help him stand up, at least the national security elements of that government.

CAMEROTA: Maeve, here is how President-elect Biden is feeling about this and the task ahead. He says, the nation also remains in the grip of a deadly virus and a reeling economy. I hope that the Senate leadership will find a way to deal with their constitutional responsibilities on impeachment, while also working on the other urgent business of this nation.

That sounds like a tall order. And, I mean, this is the last thing that he needed, you know, as John said, in his first ten days or month in office.

MAEVE RESTON, CNN POLITICAL REPORTER: Right, Alisyn. I mean, as you guys have been talking about this morning, there is so much work to be done in terms of getting the nation up to speed on vaccinations, for example. Joe Biden wants to put forward another coronavirus relief bill and has been in talks with lawmakers about that. And in part, the task is so big because President Trump is not doing much work at all on those issues right now.

And so this really complicates what Joe Biden had hoped to do in his first hundred days, in part because impeachment is such a weighty matter that, historically, the Senate has been asked to really set aside other business and so, while a trial goes on. And so, clearly, he is trying to get Mitch McConnell and then also the incoming leadership of the Democrats to figure out a way to get his cabinet nominees confirmed, to get moving on his agenda while this is going on.

And we know from the last impeachment that it eats up all of the attention in the ether, and it will be very difficult for him to get Americans focused on his agenda. So it's really a double-edged sword for Democrats, who want to hold the president accountable, but have all of these other things on their plate, Alisyn. BERMAN: So, John, what do you think Donald Trump's defense will be? Donald Trump, The New York Times reports, is going around even this week telling people, I won, I won the election. We're reporting he doesn't want to pay Rudy Giuliani for being the lawyer who got him impeached twice. So I don't know if Giuliani will stand up for him.

We have some reporting that John Eastman, who is the guy who questioned whether Kamala Harris could be vice president and the same guy, I think, he spoke at the rally on January 6th.

[07:05:05]

And he continues to say that the people who invaded the Capitol were leftist, he may represent the president.

But what on earth are you looking for? What do you expect to see here?

HARWOOD: Well, first of all, what you described with President Trump is a reflection of how psychologically disfigured he is. He cannot accept responsibility for anything. And, you know, Donald Trump's -- the nature of Donald Trump is such that he is such a bad actor that, at some point, everyone around him is going to be asked to do something that they simply cannot do.

So Rudy Giuliani cannot press forward successfully on this preposterous legal argument about Trump winning the election, which he did not. So trump says, I'm not going to pay his bills. Kevin McCarthy sticks with him on the idea that there's electoral fraud for weeks and weeks and weeks and finally facing the flight of corporate donations from his party, he stands up in the well, opposes impeachment, but says Donald Trump bears responsibility. Now, Trump is turning on him.

He turned on his own vice president, Mike Pence, who ate garbage from the president for four years and set a mob, excoriated him, blamed him for weakness. This is the nature of who Donald Trump is, so he's going to stew. But you have to think that one of the positive things is that he's lost the ability to communicate rapidly and inspire further acts of violence or at least, he's deterred from doing that. And the fact that he put out that statement last night, saying that he disavowed violence, is a reflection of the fact that he does respond to pressure. He is under intense pressure right now.

CAMEROTA: Yes, I mean, but to be clear, our reporting -- sorry, it might have been The New York Times reporting, was that it was basically an intervention. He had to put out that statement. He didn't want to, you know, a week after --

HARWOOD: Oh, Alisyn, Donald Trump will never do the right thing for the right reasons. He will do it if he feels forced to. Donald Trump is now staring down the barrel of legal problems when he leaves. Even if he tries to pardon himself and even if he can make that stick, he's got state-level in New York City and New York State, state-level legal problems that are beyond the reach of a presidential pardon. He's going to come out of the White House owing hundreds of millions of dollars, and he's watching his bankers flee him. His brand is in tatters. He's got big, big problems going forward and it is the specter of those problems that finally gets people to be able to convince him to do something different.

He may not mean it. In fact, he almost certainly does not mean it. But the fact that he did it is better than had he not done it.

CAMEROTA: Oh, for sure. But, Maeve, I mean, I think that -- I think that people who count Donald Trump out do so a little prematurely, because he still has all of these networks. Yesterday, his preferred networks were not in special coverage about the impeachment. They dipped in and dipped out and maybe they showed it, maybe they didn't. I mean, there were times that OAN was not even reporting on it.

And so, it doesn't seem like the base that he has worked up to a lather, that are willing to go risk their lives for him and fight at the U.S. Capitol, it doesn't seem like that's been diffused yet. And we just had this specialist that listens to extremists on, they were parsing everything he said in his statement last night for any clues about what he wants them to do next.

RESTON: Right. I mean, the psychology of those people, I think it's -- you know, at this point, it may be absolutely impossible to change. But to your point, I mean, that sort of strikes at the heart of what Democrats are trying to figure out as they go forward with the impeachment trial is how many minds can they change at this point.

Donald Trump's approval ratings are now in the mid to high 30s. Certainly more Republicans have abandoned him. Clear majorities say that he is responsible for the violence that happened at the Capitol. But as much as Mitch McConnell would like to purge the Republican Party of Donald Trump, I mean, that's clearly not going to happen anytime soon because the mechanisms are not there yet.

Certainly, we are seeing this huge corporate pressure campaign, people like Kevin McCarthy, seeing the prospect of his -- you know, his ability to raise money and corporate donations drying up. And that is what's driving the behavior of some Republicans now who have been openly questioning Trump's actions.

But until the primary system changes, where you don't have sort of the craziest extremists being the core of people that show up in primary contests, Trump may be able to punish Republicans for a long time to come.

[07:10:02]

And his hold on the party will continue for a long time to come, unless we continue to see sort of an avalanche of pressure on the money side.

And donors that I've talked to this week have been talking about that, how to go forward, how to get the Republican Party to a better place, to keep more stable people in office. And I think that's a conversation that we don't know the end to yet and we'll have to see how that unfolds, Alisyn.

BERMAN: John Harwood, Donald Trump 2021 is a political loser, right? I mean, he lost a presidential election at the end of 2020. He lost every avenue of challenging that into 2021. He blew the Georgia Senate races. Republican donors are fleeing. He lost ten House members. So why the other 197, what do they see as a reason for sticking with him?

HARWOOD: Well, as Maeve indicated, so long as 70 percent of Republicans, which we saw in polling this week, remain strongly behind Donald Trump, even after what's happened over the past week. What that means is all of those Republican members who represent strongly Republican districts are looking at a primary landscape that is tilted way in favor of people sympathetic with Donald Trump.

It is remarkable that you got ten Republicans. That's just 7 percent of the House Republicans. Nevertheless, that's more than you've had for bipartisan impeachment votes in the past in American history. You had them stepping up. You had Liz Cheney, who is an influential figure in the party stepping up. You have Mitch McConnell maintaining his silence about what he's going to do in a Senate conviction.

And I have to say that the fact that we were talking about the state President Trump put out last night, that statement vindicated the decision by Pelosi to impeach, by McConnell to say, I'm not sure how I'm going to vote on conviction. By Pence, even, to hold out the possibility for several days of the 25th Amendment. All of that weighed on the president. That pressure weighed on the president and it produced what he said on that video last night.

BERMAN: John Harwood, Maeve Reston, thank you both very much for being with us this morning.

Washington, D.C., it looks like the green zone in Baghdad. This is what the green zone in Baghdad used to look like when I was there in Iraq after the invasion. This as security is increasing ahead of Joe Biden's inauguration. Some 20,000 National Guard troops are expected in the Capitol for the swearing in next week.

CNN's Pete Muntean live on the streets with what things look like this morning. Pete?

PETE MUNTAN, CNN CORRESPONDENT: John, you mentioned the 20,000 members of the National Guard descending on Washington right now, but along with it, this massive fence around the Capitol. We are blocks away from the center of the Capitol complex. And this is very big. I'm six feet tall. This is eight feet tall.

But if you have any questions about the threat here, it is very real, according to the latest intelligence. The Secret Service says it's monitoring online threats of possible armed protests here again. The Pentagon says it's worried about improvised explosive devices, like we saw outside the RNC and the DNC. And the head of the Metropolitan Washington Police Department says he is concerned that things here could get very ugly.

Here is what he said.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ACTING CHIEF ROBERT J. CONTEE III, METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: As the mayor has encouraged residents, as she has encouraged visitors from around the country, you know, we're not asking people to come to D.C. for this. This is a major security threat and we are working to mitigate those threats. So, again, we are just very intently focused on the job that's at hand.

REPORTER: And, obviously, you're new as acting chief, but not new with MPD. Have you ever seen this much help coming in for a large event?

CONTEE: Not at this level, no.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

MUNTEAN (voice over): Downtown D.C. being cleared out right now. The members of the guard now, many times larger than are deployments of the military overseas, this is going to be an inauguration like no other. John?

BERMAN: All right. Pete Muntean in D.C., please stay safe, Pete.

So, did the insurrectionists have help from the inside, I mean, way inside, members of Congress or their staff? Well, now other members of Congress are demanding an investigation, that's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

CAMEROTA: Do the domestic terrorists who stormed the Capitol had inside help? New video captures communication efforts during the insurrection showing how the violent mob was trying to coordinate to penetrate other areas of the Capitol. Officials also investigating reports that some rioters received tours from some members of Congress the day before the attack. One House Democrat calls it a reconnaissance mission.

Joining us now is Democratic Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, she's a former CIA officer and one of the 232 lawmakers who voted to impeach the president. Good morning, Congresswoman.

REP. ABIGAIL SPANBERGER (D-VA): Good morning, Alisyn. Thank you for having me.

CAMEROTA: I'm sorry, I'm not really able to hear you. Let me try to work on that. Maybe you could just turn on the speakers overhead, Bruce? I'm going to press on and hope they're going to turn the speakers on for me.

Let's start with what we need to expect over the next week. I know that you received a briefing from Secret Service. Can you give us just a sense of what they're preparing for and what we all, as the public need to expect, over the next seven days?

SPANBERGER: So I think we'll expect to see it look very, very different over the next couple of days, from prior inaugurations. We've spoken with and we've had briefings with Secret Service, FBI, and other law enforcement entities that are involved with preparing for the inauguration. They went through kind of the prioritization of what has been different, what -- since January 6th, some of the additional changes that they've made to their plans towards the inauguration.

And, you know, at this point, I would also like to just take a moment to thank all of the National Guard members who have come to Washington earlier than normally would be the case with an inauguration, including so many guard members from the commonwealth of Virginia.

[07:20:11]

They are, as I -- I believe as you previewed in some of the photographs, surrounding the Capitol, in the Capitol and working to make sure that that space is safe.

CAMEROTA: So, I mean, we've seen just the -- John was just saying that it looks like the green zone in Baghdad right now. I mean, that's the show of force. But, I mean, scale of one to ten, because you have experience in your CIA background, how concerned are you that we'll see some form of repeat, maybe not the level of what happened on the 6th, but something dangerous or destructive, and not just in the Capitol, but in the 50 U.S. capitols that have now been warned to expect something?

SPANBERGER: Well, I think the large concern that I have is not about a particular date. It's not just about January 20th, it's not just about this upcoming weekend, where it's expected that there's going to be events, be they violent altercations or anything else at capitols across the country.

The real issue that I think we need to focus on as an American people is that there is a violent and extreme ideology that has taken hold, that has been given safe harbor, if you will, in the political space.

And we saw the results of what happens when that is able to fester and come to the forefront. We saw those results on January 6th. We're certainly preparing for those potential results over the weekend at the inauguration. But it doesn't end there because it's an ideology.

My background, as you mentioned, I'm a former CIA case officer. My background is a focus on terrorism. And the domestic violent extremists who took siege and executed an insurgent attack on the United States Capitol, an insurrectionist attack are not just going away.

So that's something that we need to contend with. We're going to need accountability. We're going to need leadership, because, really, that's the long-term challenge that extends, frankly, far beyond the 20th of January.

CAMEROTA: Absolutely. They killed a police officer. I mean, if that's not radicalized, I don't know what is. And I think that you're right, that in order to diffuse it, there's going to have to be a deprogramming. But I don't see that happening yet. Do you have any thoughts on how that can happen? SPANBERGER: You know, I'll take you back to November. So, November, the election happened, took a little bit, but the election results were called by the media. The election results were called because there was no path for Donald Trump to win. And then we moved forward and in state after state began certifying their election.

And in advance of, I believe, it was December the 8th, which was the safe harbor date for all states to declare their winners, I had many colleagues say, well, I'm not going to acknowledge that Joe Biden won until December 8th, because that's the safe harbor day, just in case there's a change. And people in my district or, you know, my base voters, they're just not ready for Biden to have won. So I'll wait.

And December 8th came, right? And all of the states said, yes, here are the results. We've done recounts, we've certified it. Republican legislatures and Republican governors and secretaries of state said, yes, we've certified it.

And then they said, well, we'll wait. December 14th, that's when the Electoral College is meeting and voting. So some of my base voters, they're not happy, we'll wait until December 14th. December 14th came and many people chose still not to acknowledge Joe Biden as the president-elect.

And then it was, well, we'll wait until January 6th. That's when we, as members of Congress, acknowledge it. And every step along the way, when they had the ability to tell the truth to their constituents, when they had the ability to say there was no steal, the elections occurred, as brave people such as the secretary of state in Georgia has done, when they had the opportunity, they didn't do it.

And then in the lead up to January 6th, well, some people in my district feel that the results weren't fair, so they feel that way, so, therefore, I'm going to contest the results. And so, bit by bit, this is the problem, is when we have people in positions of leadership who do not use their voice, this is what happens. We allow people the space, to fester and foster these conspiracy theories that there was some steal that they need to rise up to.

And I would harken to Jaime Herrera Beutler, a Republican who voted for impeachment, the statement she said was, I'm not choosing a side, I'm choosing the truth. It's the only way to defeat fear. And her words, I think, are so truthful and so important, because it is in that truth, in saying the truth to our neighbor, to our family members, having heard conversations within our communities, that we will be able to defeat what is an ideology that is based on lies and based on fear.

[07:25:01]

CAMEROTA: Congresswoman Abigail Spanberger, thank you very much for sharing all of your thoughts with us on this important day.

SPANBERGER: Thank you for having me on. Thank you so much.

CAMEROTA: This is the most bipartisan impeachment in U.S. history, even Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell has not ruled out convicting President Trump. Where does the Republican Party go in a post-Trump presidency? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. DAN NEWHOUSE (R-WA): There is no excuse for President Trump's actions. The president took an oath to defend the Constitution against all enemies, foreign and domestic. Last week, there was a domestic threat at the door of the Capitol and he did nothing to stop it.

That is why, with a heavy heart and clear resolve, I will vote yes on these articles of impeachment.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: That's Republican Congressman Dan Newhouse. He was one of ten Republicans who voted in favor of impeaching President Trump, making it the most bipartisan impeachment vote in U.S. history.

[07:30:05]

Never before have so many members of a president's party voted to impeach.