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Lawmakers Vote to Impeach Trump for a Second Time; Feds Warn Extremists Emboldened to Carry Out More Attacks After Capitol Siege; Evidence Uncovered So Far Suggests U.S. Capitol Attack was Planned. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[07:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Never before have so many members of a president's party voted to impeach a president.

Joining me now is CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent. So, Charlie, there's two ways to look at this, right, from someone's perspective like you. Glass half full, the most bipartisan impeachment in history, ten is more Republicans that voted for impeachment last time when it was zero. However, 197 still voted against it. So, are you glass half full or glass half empty?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm actually glass half full. I wish, you know, more had voted for impeachment. But John, I think it's fair to say that there were many more house Republicans who supported impeachment than who actually voted for it. And so, we should be clear about that. That those ten members who voted for it, I think, have a lot more support within the conference than people realize. Don Newhouse's simple eloquence I think stated it all, as did Jaime Herrera Beutler, who simply talked about truth over fear, and Don saying that Donald Trump, you know, his actions were simply inexcusable. I mean, that kind of simple truth, I think, goes a long way with a lot of the members, even though others didn't -- you know, couldn't find it within themselves to --

BERMAN: No --

DENT: Support the impeachment resolution.

BERMAN: It got to ten. I mean, it goes a long way. It got to ten. I'm just not so sure that it matters how many of the other 197 in their heart of hearts may have agreed with them if they're not willing to vote.

DENT: Yes, like I said, that is disappointing. But, hey, it's a start. I am very pleased that we had these ten stand up, including a fresh man, Peter Meyer. You know, he's in his 11th day in the U.S., votes for impeachment. I hope that this vote in the house will embolden senators now to convict. So, let's see what the Senate does. And you also have, I think a dynamic in the Senate where many of those senators seem to be even more angry with the president, because he cost them the Senate and of course the events that occurred last week, where the president did nothing. And so, McConnell, of course, Senator McConnell is also -- you know, sent a signal to his members that it sounds like he could be supporting a removal from office, and that's -- I think very encouraging.

BERMAN: On the other hand, there's already a movement in the House of Representatives to take Liz Cheney, Congresswoman Liz Cheney, who is the number three ranking house member, to take her conference chair title away. So again, if there is this movement, and I don't know whether this is going to have majority support or not, why is that a good sign?

DENT: Well, I think a few of the more extreme voices within the conference want to take down Liz Cheney. But I think they're underestimating Liz Cheney's strength within the conference. Even a lot of those who voted against impeachment will not vote to sack Liz Cheney. I think many of them deeply respect her. And I think there is a fracture within the House Republican Conference, those -- and again, Cheney representing the voice of how many felt, even if they didn't vote that way. And of course, the current leadership, top two, you know, vote were in the other camp. So, I think Cheney is in a stronger position than some folks realize. Yes, there's a group, there'll be a few dozen who are going to want her head on a pike, but there are a lot of people in that conference who admire and respect her. And she is probably seen as the future leadership of the GOP.

BERMAN: I don't know. I mean, Adam Kinzinger agrees with you, Adam Kinzinger put out a statement last night, Adam Kinzinger voted for impeachment, he put out a statement that he thinks Liz Cheney is in a stronger position, and Kinzinger went on to suggest that he thinks that there are many ranking members who he thinks actually fomented perhaps some of the actions that led to the violence, that they should lose their jobs. I just don't see it. I need you to convince me that there's actually going to be some change. Because I saw a whole lot of Jim Jordan last night. I mean, I saw a whole lot of Jim Jordan controlling the vast majority of Republicans in the House of Representatives, and I don't see his power waning one little bit. And he's going to be a ranking member on a committee.

DENT: Well, look, the battle lines are drawn, John. Clearly, the party is fractured. And, look, I'm with Kinzinger and Cheney on this, and I want them to be stronger. I want their numbers to grow. I believe that they will over time. Donald Trump is still, obviously, a very dominant force within the party. But he is a bit of a diminished figure. And I think I believe that his power is going to continue to ebb over the coming months and hopefully years. Many Republican members right now are concerned because a lot of their financial support is being choked off because many business organizations and their PACS, you know, have declined -- are suggesting that they're going to support members who voted to object to the certification.

So, I think there is a real problem within the GOP about how they're going to fund themselves. This is a big problem because, you know, the Republicans don't have the same type of fundraising capacities that the Democrats do with their ACLU organization that can basically flip a switch and they can get, you know, hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of small contributions. [07:35:00]

The GOP doesn't have that luxury.

BERMAN: Well, Trump raised a whole lot of money for his whack-a- doodle attacks on the election after, you know, after November 3rd. So there is a way to raise money in a certain group. "Axios"-IPSOS did a poll where they asked people who have been voting for Republicans whether or not they're a Trump Republican or a traditional GOP. Right now, within that group, traditional GOP is still the majority. And of this group, Trump should be removed from office for promoting unrest, 1 percent among Trump supporters, 24 percent among traditional Republicans. Do you support Trump's contesting of the election results? Ninety one percent among Trump supporters, traditional GOP, of which you consider yourself, Charlie, it's 46 percent, which is still incredibly high. And Trump should be the 2024 Republican nominee among Trump supporters, 92 percent among traditional GOP, 42 percent, which again seems high. What do you see in these numbers?

DENT: Well, yes, some of those numbers are actually a bit depressing, on the one hand, and others are encouraging. But my advice, again, to Republicans is Donald Trump lost an election. You know, all of these other Republicans down-ballot did very well, and not one incumbent house Republican lost, and the state legislative candidates did well. They are in a stronger position than they realize. And you know, what is the point of following a man, you know, who has been defeated, who has been impeached twice, you know, who continues down this reckless path, who is based upon all the comments I've heard from people close to him, they all believe the president is unhinged. I mean, I can't imagine that Vice President Mike Pence is feeling very good about Donald Trump right now after this mob went down there and was, you know, screaming to hang Mike Pence, I can't imagine any of these folks feel good about where they are.

So, there's a blood-letting that's going to occur. The reckoning I think is at our doorstep, and we're going to see how this plays out. I think that the establishment will push back, if you will. I mean, Bill Kristol is out there right now, you know, raising $50 million to defend those Republicans who voted to impeach and those who will vote to convict. So, there are people pushing back. And so now, the fight, you know, counterforce is rising. And that's a good thing and it will grow in strength, I hope.

BERMAN: Charlie Dent, thanks for being with us, I appreciate your time.

DENT: Thanks, John.

BERMAN: The country on high alert this morning as federal officials warn of possible new attacks ahead of Joe Biden's inauguration. So what is being done this morning to prevent this violence? That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:40:00] BERMAN: All right. Federal investigators warning this morning that

domestic extremists are more likely to carry out attacks. They are emboldened to carry out new attacks, perhaps in advance of the inauguration, this coming after the siege on the U.S. Capitol last week. This morning, federal officials have uncovered evidence that leads and believes that, that attack was, quote, "planned". Joining us now, CNN's senior law enforcement analyst Andrew McCabe; he's a former deputy director of the FBI. The idea that they are saying this was planned, they're looking into that, Andy. What should we take away?

ANDREW MCCABE, CNN SENIOR LAW ENFORCEMENT ANALYST: Well, I think we should all assume that there was some degree of planning that took place here. I mean, we saw the weaponry, we saw the tactics used on the Capitol. Nobody came to the Trump rally carrying ladders and bats and cudgels, all of those things were carried up to the Capitol. So, that equipment had to have been planned for, it had to be stored somewhere, it had to be retrieved before they mounted their assault. So that gives you at least some very -- some very basic indicators of organization and execution.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So there's that question of, was it planned, and again, to your point, it sure looks like it, since they brought stuff that you don't normally bring to a protest, a peaceful protest. And then there's the question of, was there some kind of inside help? And we've heard from some lawmakers who say that they have seen evidence of inside help. Some of them suggest that some of the members of Congress, some of the Republicans, Trump supporters, gave tours to some of these extremists the day before. And then there was also one of the extremists who planned this, said in a videotape that he put online, that he had coordinated with Congressman Mo Brooks, Congressman Andy Biggs and Gosar. So, how do you go about proving that?

MCCABE: Well, I think that the reports of what people saw the night or two before the attack are certainly suspicious, but there's a lot more we need to know about that. And I'm sure investigators are running in that direction. The comments by the extremists online about having coordinated with three congressmen, I mean, you know, as an investigator, you always, you know, thank the heavens every time one of your suspects does something incredibly stupid, and that's happened a lot here. But I can't over emphasize, Alisyn, the most important source of information here is going to be the attackers themselves, as they get their hands on more and more people, many of them are going to talk.

Many of them are going to explain who they talked to, who they coordinated with, where they came from, and lay out all the details in an effort to save themselves some time in jail or reduce the penalties they face. And that's how we'll unwind this potential conspiracy behind the organization of the attack.

BERMAN: What I'm most concerned about, Andy, is what happens next. How safe will things be leading up to and during the inauguration itself. And President Trump put out this video, we understand under duress last night, where he called on his supporters to not be violent, but he did not say, I lost the election. He did not say, I am in any way responsible for the insurrection, the violence at the Capitol last week. You spent years fighting terrorism all around the world. What do you think potential bad actors heard from that statement last night?

MCCABE: Well, John, President Trump is a master at coded language and the use of dog whistles. And there is no question that, that statement included some of those same references, simply by leaving out the comments that you've mentioned.

[07:45:00]

He sends a signal to his folks to fight on. He has never come out and formally undercut the central theory of this -- of this domestic terrorist rebellion, which is that the lie that the election was stolen from them. And his failure to do it last night is absolutely unforgivable. I dismiss that statement as a self-serving attempt at damage control. I think you're right to be thinking forward and far beyond D.C. I still think that the biggest danger that we face in the coming weeks is from the independent actions of small domestic terrorist groups, be they racial or alt-right or whichever your flavor of the moment, targeting softer targets in their home areas. Those are statehouses, government buildings, things of that nature. D.C. is going to be a fortress for the inauguration.

There will be some attempts to disrupt things, but I don't think they'll be successful here. They have the rest of the country to play with, and that's really concerning.

CAMEROTA: And before we let you go, we want to get your thoughts on Jim Comey, obviously, former director of the FBI just gave an interview yesterday to the "BBC" and he floated an interesting idea. We want to get your take, listen to this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Joe Biden should pardon Trump as Ford did Nixon?

JIM COMEY, FORMER FBI DIRECTOR: I don't know. He should -- he should consider it. Now, I don't know whether Donald Trump --he's not a genius, but he might figure out that if he accepts a pardon, that's an admission of guilt. United States Supreme Court has said, so I don't know that he would accept a pardon, but as part of healing the country and getting us to a place where we can focus on things that are going to matter over the next four years, I think Joe Biden is going to have to at least think about that.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: What do you think, Andy?

MCCABE: You know, Alisyn, I think -- I understand that argument. And I think that before January 6th, it's a pretty close call. I would completely have understood in those days before the attack on the Capitol that the new president might want to move on from this incredibly challenged period that we've been living, but the attack on the Capitol for me changed the calculus measurably. You have a president who provoked and directed and incited an assault on his own government, on the process of democracy itself. I don't think you can look away from that. As much as you might want to move on to political healing, this is an offense against this nation that has to be -- he has to be held accountable for this in some way. So I really believe that, you know, we should continue moving forward in that direction.

CAMEROTA: Andrew McCabe, thank you very much. We appreciate you being here.

BERMAN: You guys are wearing the same glasses --

MCCABE: Thanks --

BERMAN: Just saying.

CAMEROTA: Andy and I?

BERMAN: Yes, the whole segment is sort of a --

CAMEROTA: Is that right?

BERMAN: Yes --

CAMEROTA: Well, then, mine must be very handsome --

BERMAN: Yes.

CAMEROTA: A major announcement coming today from President-elect Joe Biden on the next round of coronavirus relief. So, we have the details on what he wants to include, so stick around for that.

BERMAN: They're fetching. I mean --

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:50:00]

CAMEROTA: Later today, President-elect Joe Biden will announce a major coronavirus relief package that is expected to carry a hefty price tag. With just six days until he takes office, CNN is learning that state officials are skeptical about his key promise on vaccines. CNN's MJ Lee is live in Wilmington, Delaware, for us. So, what's the latest, MJ?

MJ LEE, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, getting COVID under control is obviously going to be Joe Biden's one of biggest challenges for him immediately when he takes office. And we have new reporting this morning from myself, Sara Murray and Kristen Holmes about state officials feeling skeptical and concerned about Biden's stated goal of getting 100 million vaccine shots administered in his first 100 days in office. Now, remember the Biden team has had to lean heavily on individual states to get information about COVID in large part because they have not been getting the cooperation that they have needed from the outgoing Trump administration. Now, the repeated concern that we have heard from our sources on the

state level is simply that they do not have clarity right now on some key information about how these vaccines are going to be administered. So, from everything, from these mass vaccination sites, how exactly is that going to work? What about vaccine supplies? This is simply the question of, will there actually be enough vaccine doses to do the 100 million vaccine shots in the first 100 days. Funding is a big problem. A lot of states and local governments right now are extremely strapped for cash, and they just don't know, how are we going to have the resources, including people to actually administer these vaccine shots to try to meet this goal.

Now, one consistent thing that we have also heard from our sources is generally a sigh of relief. People have described a night and day contrast between dealing with the Trump administration and the incoming Biden administration. They have described generally that they have been willing to listen, that they have been a lot more engaged than the outgoing administration. So that has been a little silver lining that we have heard. I will just quickly note as you know, Joe Biden is going to be making a big announcement tonight here in Wilmington about his COVID relief package. What we reported last night is that Biden advisors recently told allies on Capitol Hill that the price tag could be something like $2 trillion, but I will emphasize that number could always change. Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: OK, MJ, thank you very much for all of that information. Joining us now to talk about it is CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, let's just start over there. So, this --

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning --

[07:55:00]

CAMEROTA: Ambitious goal of Joe Biden, a 100 million vaccinations into arms in his first 100 days. You just heard MJ explain there, there are complications. So, for instance, not having enough people to administer the vaccine, and then of course, thus far, the vaccinations haven't gone as well as projected. And so, do you think it's still realistic?

GUPTA: I really still do, Alisyn. And I know that, you know, there's been a lot of concern about this. I've been talking to people within all these sectors, at the federal level, at the state level, but also the private sector level as well. It's going to come with bumps and hiccups and it's going to feel uneven. The way that the system was set up was that "Operation Warp Speed" was getting these doses to the states. They were tracking it through the software platform called Tiberius. But after that, it was sort of left up to the state to sort of handle it, and we've seen what has happened so far. One thing to point out is that the major pharmacy, the major pharmacy organizations have been largely responsible for taking care of long-term care facilities.

And they've been doing that and they expect that, that should be done by the end of the month. The expectation was that these major pharmacy -- these retail pharmacies would not really start doing the general public until the Spring some time. But that may change. I mean, if you look at their capacity and what they're possibly able to do here -- and there's a lot of ifs, I recognize, but they could potentially vaccinate up to a 100 million people a month, you know, when you add it all up. So, how do you do that? You've got to get more doses out there. That's part of what we're hearing, don't hold back the second doses. You've got to widen the eligibility, which we're hearing that as well, so people over the age of 65 in most states now can -- yes, be eligible for the vaccine.

And you've got to bring these major pharmacies online. There's -- these vaccination fairs -- we're hanging at the Dodgers Stadium, we're hanging out at the -- in Pennsylvania, there's some skepticism about that because it's not just, you know, opening a mass vaccination site. You've got to track all those patients. What's the software platform going to be? As MJ was just saying, do you have enough personnel to actually be injecting these shots into people's arms? All of those are big concerns. Pharmacies have a lot of that infrastructure already built in. They're going to have to ramp up, don't get me wrong. But that -- you know, this combination of the states and the private sector, I think are probably going to be the answer.

BERMAN: You have to get the demand to the supply. You have to get enough people to the vaccines where they are. "The New York Times" --

GUPTA: Right --

BERMAN: Reporting overnight, there's 24-hour vaccinations in some parts of New York, but overnight in the dead of night, no one is getting vaccinated. So, you know, you have syringes sitting there just waiting to go in people's arms and it's not happening.

GUPTA: Right. That's exactly right, and you know, you also deal with these particular vaccines, in that, you have to use them, you know, once you start to thaw them. So, you know, you -- all of a sudden you run into situations, and I even saw this at our hospital where you have all of a sudden a bunch of doses at the end of the day, and you're like literally calling people and saying, hey, come get a dose because we have these extra doses, they're going to go to waste otherwise. But just going back to the pharmacy thing again, that is a structure that many Americans are sort of used to as well. You know, vaccination fairs, again, I think that, that may be a critical component, but what are people used to doing? Making appointments with their doctor's offices.

Going to their retail pharmacy. You know, they have relationships with people there. They can be tracked there. Their medical information is already in these places. So, how do you -- how do you take what is necessary, this huge demand, and understandably so for these vaccines, and incorporate it into a system that people know and understand.

BERMAN: Sanjay, thank you very much. We'll all be watching what President-elect Biden says tonight about all this because, obviously, it will have a big impact on all of our lives starting one week from now. Appreciate it. And NEW DAY continues right now.

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman. CAMEROTA: Good morning everyone, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. And this morning, Congress moves towards the Senate trial of Donald Trump for inciting the deadly insurrection on the Capitol. But that trial will only begin, we now know, after Donald Trump leaves office next week. House managers tell CNN they have not yet decided whether to seek witnesses and subpoena documents.

Overnight, President-elect Joe Biden urged lawmakers not to let this trial get in the way of fighting the pandemic and resurrecting the economy. Ten house Republicans voted in favor of Trump's impeachment.

Senate Majority leader Mitch McConnell says he has not ruled out voting to convict Donald Trump. As for the president, he has a new fall guy, Rudy Giuliani. Our reporting is that Trump does not want to pay his legal bills anymore. And the president is still debating who to dole out more pardons to.

BERMAN: So, Washington D.C. this morning looks like the green zone in Baghdad. Law enforcement troops just everywhere. Developing this morning, a new intelligence bulletin warns that domestic extremists are likely more emboldened now after the insurrection last week.

[08:00:00]