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Rep. Diana DeGette (D-CO) is Interviewed about Impeachment; Feds Warn of More Violence after Capitol Siege; Disastrous End to Trump Presidency. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired January 14, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

REP. DIANA DEGETTE (D-CO): We need.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You're talking about, do you need witnesses. Obviously you're talking about the speech itself, before the attack on the Capitol. So, in theory, could there be witnesses who were victims inside the Capitol?

DEGETTE: Absolutely. Like I say, we only constituted our group yesterday. So we're talking about what we need to do to prove the article of impeachment in the Senate. That's what the process is, obviously.

Here you have a situation where the president urged his supporters to come to Washington, invited them to a rally at the White House. Then, at the White House went out and told them to march up Pennsylvania Avenue and to stop the counting of the vote. And then they went and rampaged the Capitol. They tried to find Speaker Pelosi and Mike Pence so that they could stop the legal exercise of our constitutional power.

We're going to have to figure out what kind of evidence we need to present to the Senate to prove our article of impeachment.

BERMAN: The article of impeachment also includes facts and references to things that happened well before the 6th, including the president's phone call to Georgia Secretary of State Brad Raffensberger. People have speculated that he could be a witness. What could you learn from him?

DEGETTE: Well, if Secretary Raffensberger testified, he could talk about his conversation with the president, how the president tried to pressure him to change the legal results of the election. So all of this is under discussion right now, but we expect that we will be meeting today, and over the weekend, getting our case ready for whenever the Senate decides they want to have the trial.

BERMAN: Do you -- are you thinking in terms of days for a trial or weeks?

DEGETTE: We don't -- we haven't gotten to that point yet. BERMAN: Tom Cotton, U.S. senator from the state of Arkansas, who

condemned the attacks and was against the president's scheme to overturn the Electoral College, he came out overnight and said he plans on voting against conviction. He says, quote, the founders designed the impeachment process as a way to remove office holders from public office, not an inquest against private citizens.

Your response to that?

DEGETTE: Yes. Well, I mean, obviously, Speaker Pelosi and the rest of us think that Donald Trump is a -- every day he's in office he's a risk to our national security. I learned that personally when I was in the Capitol last week.

But even if the Senate doesn't take the case up until after he's left office, still, number one, they would be convicting him. And, number two, they could prevent him from ever holding office again. They could prevent him from getting all of the perks of a retired president. And it seems to me that given the egregiousness with which he acted, then we should take this kind of a step. But Senator Cotton is, obviously, entitled to his own opinion.

BERMAN: There is historical precedent of people having Senate trials for impeachment after they are no longer in office. Not presidents of the United States, but other office holders have had the trials after they were impeached.

DEGETTE: That's right.

BERMAN: Overnight, the president, apparently, according to our reporting, under some duress, released that video statement where he called on his supporters to be peaceful, to be nonviolent in the coming days. One of the things he did not say was that, I lost the election, or I've been lying to you about the election, or I was wrong when I said that I won the election. He did not concede that he lost the election. And, in fact, "The New York Times" is reporting --

DEGETTE: No --

BERMAN: "The New York Times" is reporting he's been telling people, even as recently as this week, he won, he won, he won. How does that impact your argument?

DEGETTE: Well, not only does he continue to believe he won the election, but also he shows no contrition for what he did. Even when he was belatedly, way belatedly, telling his supporters to be peaceful, he never apologized for whipping them up into a frenzy and sending them down to the Capitol. He never apologized for trying to stop the legitimate certification in Georgia and many other states. He never -- he never has taken any responsibility for the terrible events that have occurred since the election.

BERMAN: So there were some very serious discussion inside the House yesterday during the impeachment vote, yet there's just one bit of sound I want to play you because there is also some stuff that I'm just curious how you feel about it when you hear it spoken out loud in the U.S. Capitol.

So listen to this new member of Congress from Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (R-GA): I would like to announce on behalf of the American people, we have to make sure that our leaders are held accountable. So on January 21st, I will be filing articles of impeachment on Joe Biden.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[08:35:06]

BERMAN: That's a new member of Congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene, who was on TV saying that last night. And just, I mean, how do you react to that? What do you say to someone like that serving in the U.S. Congress?

DEGETTE: Well, I think somebody who would have such an ignorant view of impeachment has a lot to learn in Congress.

I will also say that I have been in contact in the last week, ever since the riot at the Capitol, with many of my Republican colleagues and my Democratic colleagues, and we all have a very strong belief that we need to try to find some healing. We try to need to get together. And those are the people who I'm focusing on.

BERMAN: Hopefully that was one of your Republican colleagues reaching out to you in a moment of bipartisanship right then.

DEGETTE: Yes.

BERMAN: Diane DeGette, congresswoman from Colorado, we appreciate you being with us this morning. Thank you so much. Please, keep us posted as these decisions are made over the next few days.

DEGETTE: Great being with you too, and I will.

BERMAN: All right, the threat of more attacks by domestic extremists very real ahead of the inauguration. What are states doing this morning to prevent more violence?

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:40:10]

BERMAN: New this morning, federal law enforcement officials are warning that domestic extremists are emboldened to carry out more attacks after the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. This morning, all 50 states on high alert for more violence.

Joining me now is Nevada's attorney general, Aaron Ford.

Mr. Attorney General, a pleasure to have you on with us this morning.

As we sit here, what are you most concerned about?

AARON FORD (D), NEVADA ATTORNEY GENERAL: Well, hi, John. First off, good to see you and thank you so much for having me on.

Listen, our concern is basically around the preparation to ensure that we are engaged with our local and our federal partners to ensure that we have enough protection against these purported and potentially planned insurrectionists across the country. I'm confident in our state that we have that happening. And so we are hopeful that the other 49 states are likewise as prepared.

BERMAN: How much specific intelligence are you getting about possible attacks?

FORD: Well, obviously, we wouldn't be able to discuss what the specifics (INAUDIBLE) says, but we do get a sufficient amount of intelligence to allow us to pair (INAUDIBLE) to the numbers of individuals that want and where and which particular entities within our partnerships, whether it's state, federal or local we want to alert. And if there are individual, particular individuals that we want on alert as well.

BERMAN: You feel good about where you are this morning?

FORD: Absolutely. I mean I think, at the end of the day, what we see here is an opportunity for coordination among every level of government, every level of law enforcement. And as the state's top law enforcement officer in the state, I do feel comfortable in knowing that I've had those conversations and beyond conversations we've had -- we have the coordination ongoing.

BERMAN: I want to ask you about something the president says, according to "The New York Times." According to "The New York Times," this week on a flight to Texas, he was still telling people, I won, I won the election. This is this week. This is days after the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

And the reason I'm asking you is because the chair of the Nye County Republican Party, this is in your state, has been telling people, willingly, all over the place, that Donald Trump, he thinks, will still be president after January 20th.

So how does that affect, as your state's chief law enforcement officer, how does this messaging effect would-be terrorists, people who might launch political attacks over the next week?

FORD: Well, that's exactly the problem. And that's the exact reason why I, as a top law enforcement officer in the state, spoke out against what the Nye County Republican Central Committee chairman stated. It's these individuals who are peddling in these lies that have led us to where we are right now. And what I've indicated is that those who have already led us to the insurrection we saw on the Capitol last year should be held accountable. And anyone else who were able to prove -- has incited new (INAUDIBLE) should likewise be held accountable. BERMAN: Talking about pedaling lies. You're heavily involved -- I

think you're one of the chairs of the Democratic Attorneys General Association. The Rule of Law Defense Fund is the policy arm of the Republican version of that, the Republican Attorneys General. They were actually telling people to go to Washington on January 6th. They were telling people to go and speak your voice about the election that they were saying was stolen.

So what's your message to these other attorneys general who are supposed to be, like you, law enforcement officers?

FORD: Remember the oath that you took. And I'm calling for consequences. The truth is, these -- that's the latest in a litany of examples of the -- of members of the Republican Attorneys General Association has done to undermine the integrity of these relations -- of these elections. The least of which is my neighbor crossing my border, coming into my state indicating that he's looking for alleged widespread voter fraud.

Another example is, obviously, the Texas attorney general with 17 or 18 others of his colleagues filing to disenfranchise voters in other states. These are also peddlers of lies that have led to, in my estimation, what we saw last week. And you don't have to take my word for it. Look at the fact that they sponsored one of their arms -- an arm of the organization sponsored at some level the speeches that were given last Wednesday and put out robocalls asking people to come and to participate. So they were more than just innocent bystanders in this, there were actual and intimately involved in what we saw last week.

BERMAN: Very quickly, there are reports that there's an investigation into some possible Las Vegas police officers who may have been present at the insurrection. How concerned are you about law enforcement officers, people in the police actually being connected to this?

FORD: I'm concerned about anybody being engaged in this. And I don't care if you are a rank and file civilian or a member of a police department. If you have been engaged in what is not peaceful protests, then you need to be held accountable.

[08:45:04]

And I want to ensure that -- to say loud and clearly, as I have from the beginning, in our state, we saw people protesting peacefully against the directives that were shut -- that shut down our state for a little bit, whether they were people in militia attire and long guns protesting against our governor, whether they were Black Lives Matter protesters protesting in support of black lives, I said do it peacefully. And, comparably, I said last Wednesday, those who were upset with the election could go there to protest peacefully. No issues with those individuals.

But if you were there violating the First Amendment and doing more than peaceful protests, you should be held accountable, whether you are a civilian or a police officer.

BERMAN: Aaron Ford, attorney general of the state of Nevada, thanks so much for being with us this morning. Appreciate it.

FORD: Thank you.

BERMAN: Be well.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: So here's a question, how did President Donald Trump, with his uber devoted base, manage to lose the House, lose the Senate, lose the White House and get impeached twice? "The Bottom Line," next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:50:11]

CAMEROTA: Donald J. Trump has managed quite a feat. He is the first U.S. president ever to be impeached twice. A senior Trump adviser tells CNN, quote, in the end, it all came crashing down because he could never tell the truth. This will be the story you tell your kids when you lecture them about telling the truth.

Let's get "The Bottom Line" with CNN political director David Chalian.

David, great to see you.

DAVID CHALIAN, CNN POLITICAL DIRECTOR: You too.

That's pretty astute analysis there.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

Remember back in 2020, when we all thought that 2021 would be so much calmer and different? Here's our graphic that our producers put together of what's happened in the first two weeks of 2021.

President Trump got his first veto override from Congress. President Trump demanded that Georgia officials find him votes. Democrats took the Senate, took back the Senate, after Georgia, the runoff wins. President Trump incited a deadly riot at the Capitol last week. He was banned from Twitter permanently. Oh, and now he's been impeached a second time.

So 2021 is really, I'd say, delivering on trying to outpace 2020.

CHALIAN: Certainly, thus far, Alisyn. You know, if you look at that graphic, except for the veto override, the other five things are totally interconnected. It is all part of a piece of the lying of the lying to his own voters, whether it, you know, what he was doing with the Georgia official is certainly a reason why they lost the runoffs. A key component of why they lost control of the United States Senate. Obviously, the inciting the deadly -- that's all connected to the lying, which is what got him here.

And it's something that he will be known for as president. I mean when you step back and look at the Trump legacy, you can envision, right, that historians are going to look back at these four years and it's really going to be known for two major things, he was a twice impeached president and there was a pandemic that raged totally out of his control that he seemed to have no interest in actually managing to help the American people. Those -- those are going to be the big things that get left as his legacy pieces (INAUDIBLE).

BERMAN: And they're gargantuan. I mean they're gargantuan things, David.

CHALIAN: Yes.

BERMAN: The question is, do the consequences for him stop here? I want to put -- you to put on your David Chalian decoder ring there as only you can and I want to read you a statement from Senator Rob Portman of the state of Ohio who says, quote, if the Senate proceeds with an impeachment trial, I will do my duty as a juror and listen to the cases as presented by both sides. Among my considerations will be what is best to help heal our country rather than deepen our divisions.

So with your political director decoder ring, what's he really saying there and what does this mean for the Senate trial?

CHALIAN: Yes, I -- when I read that statement, I said, oh, wow, this -- this is something that Mitch McConnell is going to pay attention to. I know we're talking that he said he doesn't know if he'll vote to convict yet or not. But when the Rob Portmans of your conference are suggesting that perhaps a conviction could further divide -- now, he doesn't say that. I understand he's leaving his options open. He crafted it carefully. But the fact that he felt the need, on the day of the House impeachment, when one of the major arguments from Republicans all day long was, this is divisive, this is divisive, to insert into his statement that he'll consider the facts but that one of the things he has to consider is that this will further divide the country, to me, that suggests getting to 17 where Rob Portman would definitely be on the list of one of the 17 you would look to, to think that there may be a chance for conviction, is actually going to be quite a steep hill to climb for the impeachment managers. I -- that's how I read it, John.

CAMEROTA: That's how I hear it, too. Do you hear it too, John?

BERMAN: You have the decoder ring? I don't have the decoder ring.

CAMEROTA: I just -- I'm using my ears.

BERMAN: That's why I was asking David.

CAMEROTA: So, what's next? What's the bottom line here, David, of what happens next? How does this color the first days of Joe Biden's presidency?

CHALIAN: Well, that's the thing, right? The entire 2020 campaign that Joe Biden won and is now going to be sworn in as president was largely about Donald Trump. And now the first days of the Biden presidency is going to largely be about Donald Trump because there's going to be this impeachment trial. So Joe Biden is going to continue to have to, even after he's sworn in as president, is going to continue to have to navigate around a Trump centric moment in American culture. But I think when you ask what's next, Alisyn, obviously, Biden is

going to try his best starting tonight to really turn the page and get the country focused on his COVID relief plans, his vaccine distribution plans and try to keep that focus all the way through.

But what's next more broadly that I am most interested in about Donald Trump leaving office is, how much power does he maintain inside the Republican Party?

[08:55:01]

How much is he the definitional figure of the Republican Party of 2021, 2022 and beyond?

I believe, over the last two months, that power has diminished some. But it is unclear, when you look at the public polling that's out there, when you look at the vast majority of Republicans in terms of their responding to impeachment, it's unclear that they know yet how to form themselves in a post-Donald Trump era.

BERMAN: David, we have to let you go, but in our waning seconds, will you commitment, now that we've learned that Lady Gaga and Jennifer Lopez will perform at the inauguration, will you commit to calling for them to perform their songs completely live with no lip-syncing?

CHALIAN: I will. I will. Who's -- who's leading that charge? I believe that's how it should be.

CAMEROTA: John. John. John is.

BERMAN: As of now, you are, David Chalian.

Thank you very much for finally taking the stand.

CHALIAN: Sure.

BERMAN: Someone brave enough to stand up and say the performances should be live.

Thank you very much.

CAMEROTA: If there's one thing we can all agree on this morning, it's that.

BERMAN: Yes, no lip syncing.

CAMEROTA: OK. Except for me.

BERMAN: Except for you.

CAMEROTA: Except for me.

CNN's coverage continues, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

POPPY HARLOW, CNN ANCHOR: Good morning, everyone. I'm Poppy Harlow.

JIM SCIUTTO, CNN ANCHOR: And I'm Jim Sciutto.

One after -- one day after becoming the first president to ever be impeached twice, and history is moving quickly of late, the president is trying to change the conversation in perhaps the worst way possible.

[09:00:01]

The White House aide says that he is hoping a slew of new pardons unveiled as soon as today will become a distraction.