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Lawyers to Argue Protected Speech; Trump Wants Major Send-off; Biden Calls Vaccine Rollout a Failure; Biden Taps New Vaccine Leader. Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner to Save Family Brand. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 15, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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[06:32:52]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: We have new details this morning about who the president has left to talk to, what he is ranting about, and what defense he plans at his Senate impeachment trial.

CNN's Joe Johns live for us at the White House this morning with the very latest.

Joe.

JOE JOHNS, CNN SENIOR WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

Well, the president's lawyers, according to a source, are expected to argue that the president's words leading up to the riot up on Capitol Hill last week were protected speech under the First Amendment of the Constitution. That's in opposition to unprotected speech, which would be things like inciting a riot. So that's one of the things we're expecting them to argue.

The other thing they're expected to argue is, not a surprise at all, that you can't hold an impeachment trial for a person who has already left office. There is some precedent for holding an impeachment trial for a person who has left office, but it is the kind of thing that could end up in the courts one way or the other.

So, those are the two arguments that we know they're going to make. And I'm sure we'll pick up some more information about that in the future.

Now, the source for all of this is telling CNN that the president is making it very difficult for his legal team, starting with the fact that the statement the president made just last night, telling his supporters to stand down and stop the violence is something the president should have said last week. The president apparently has also shut down any talk of resigning and also shut down any talk of Richard Nixon, who was the last person who was in the office of the presidency to resign.

One adviser says the president has told his people never to talk about Richard Nixon again. He says, in fact, he doesn't believe he can trust the vice president, Mike Pence, to pardon him in the same way that Gerald Ford pardoned Richard Nixon.

Meanwhile, we do have some new reporting from CNN's Kaitlan Collins indicating that the president wants a big crowd to send him off next week when he flies off from the White House to Florida.

[06:35:04]

Back to you.

BERMAN: All right, Joe Johns for us at the White House this morning.

Joining us now, CNN political commentator Errol Louis, he's a political anchor for Spectrum News, and Julie Pace, the Washington bureau chief for the "Associated Press."

And it's that last bit of reporting I find so intriguing, Julie. Our Kaitlan Collins and Kevin Liptak reporting the president had planned on leaving Washington January 19th, sulking back to Mar-a-Lago, to not be there for the inauguration. Now he wants to wait until the morning of the 20th and he wants a going away party. You know, he wants loud, cheering people on the South Lawn.

What's your takeaway?

JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": Yes, no, I think you're exactly right there. There was a point a few days ago where it looked like the president was going to slink off, where this was a president who was going to leave not only in disgrace in the eyes of many Americans, but in his own eyes, really. And I think what he has done over the last couple of days is start to turn the corner on that idea. He wants to leave at least looking outwardly like he is still confident, like he is still proud of what he accomplished and like he is still going to be a president who is remembered fondly by a lot of Americans. He will want a cheering crowd around him. He will expect that not just in Washington, but in Florida when he lands. Of course, the public perception among many Americans, the majority of Americans at this point, is the opposite.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh, oh, yes, I mean there will be a loud, cheering crowd when he leaves, Errol. The 80 million people who voted for Joe Biden.

But it's so interesting to watch what the president wants versus what the people around him are having to do, which is move out. And we have some pictures of them, for instance, taking a Lincoln bust out of the White House to the waiting car. Oh, there's video, actually. OK, so they're -- they're -- I hope -- I hope they're not absconding with the bust. I hope that was theirs when they -- that they brought him in there. But there's an interesting one. This is Mark Meadows' wife, Debbie Meadows, she's taking a taxidermied pheasant to her car. Let me show you that.

BERMAN: Oh, are you suggesting it should be a live pheasant? What --

CAMEROTA: I don't -- I don't know what I'm suggesting.

BERMAN: Do you have an issue with it being stuffed?

CAMEROTA: I don't even know what -- I don't know where she got the taxidermied pheasant. But I just think that it's interesting that this is what everyone around the president is doing, Errol.

BERMAN: It's not over until the --

ERROL LOUIS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Yes.

CAMEROTA: The pheasant --

BERMAN: A pheasant leaves, as they say.

LOUIS: Well, it clearly is over. And certainly one does hope that they're not looting the place.

But the reality is, every passing day, and we're coming down to -- I think we're closing in on about 120 hours left in this presidency. Every passing hour more authority and power and frankly relevance drains away from Donald Trump. He's going to cling to whatever he's got, desperately. And so we know that he's got some cards left to play. We know that he could, in fact, tell this growing insurgency around the country that he doesn't want them to wreak havoc anymore. We don't necessarily expect him to say that, but he could, and he should. We also know that there's probably a last round of pardons that are coming where Donald Trump is going to try and bestow the last bit of his power on some of the people who have been loyal to him throughout all of this stuff.

It clearly is over. You can see the bunting from the White House residence that the Biden/Harris team is going to be inaugurated. We know it's all over. But this president, you know, it's an interesting bookend, John and Alisyn, that just as he came into office with an inauguration that didn't please him, because he didn't see enough crowds, now he's leaving and there's going to be a military garrison all throughout Washington, D.C., thanks to his own actions. He'll try and avoid that, but I think the evidence will be unmistakably clear, as Marine One lifts off for the final time.

BERMAN: He's not resigning, but it is interesting, Julie, there are two people who are doing significantly more presidenting than Donald Trump is today, and one of them is Vice President Mike Pence, who is the one meeting with Christopher Wray, meeting with the National Guard guarding the nation's capital this morning. The vice president has stepped into the role that the president has no interest in doing, who has vacated. He's fled the role of president, even if he's not resigning. And then -- and then Joe Biden, last night, the president- elect, giving a speech about what he will do to battle the pandemic and battle the sagging economy. It's just striking to see that juxtaposition.

PACE: It's really extraordinary. I think it's hard to find a moment in history that is comparable, especially when you consider all of the crises that this country is facing, even before what we saw at the Capitol last week. The pandemic continues to rage out of control and the president is simply not active in any effort to respond to that pandemic, to message to the public about what they should be doing at this point.

The economy is facing great uncertainty. This has been an area that the president has focused on throughout his presidency, has shown interest in, but he has largely wiped his hands of that right now. And all of those symbolic things, all of the things that Americans look to their president to do, to just simply offer words of comfort, to show respect for the military, it's Mike Pence doing that on the one hand for this outgoing administration and it's very much Joe Biden who is stepping in and trying to say, hold on, nation, you know, if you can wait a few more days, you'll have a president who will certainly fill that part of the role, though he faces enormous challenges ahead on the pandemic and on the economy, as well.

[06:40:19]

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, it's really almost inconceivable to think about the challenges that President-elect Joe Biden faces, that he's being handed as he walks in.

And in term -- it's also hard to think about what's next for President Trump, other than this Senate trial.

And, Errol, it's interesting to hear what the defense is going to be, though it's perplexing, protected speech? The very first thing any student learns in a First Amendment class is that you cannot yell "fire" in a crowded theater. You cannot gin up a crowd to incitement. I mean, to, you know, an insurrection.

LOUIS: Right. You cannot falsely cry "fire" in a crowded theater. If the place is actually burning down, of course, you can.

What we've got is Donald Trump having a defense that the words that I spoke, I didn't know what they were going to do and so forth. This tends to be analyzed through a sort of totality of circumstances lens, meaning, you can get together with your friend and you can sing "God Bless America" in public, but you can't do it at midnight outside the home of a civil rights leader while you're burning a cross. It looks a little bit different.

So, yes, Donald Trump can say all kinds of rough and ready words. He can incite people if he wants to. He can -- but under the totality of circumstances that they then took off down Pennsylvania Avenue, as he instructed them to do, and attacked the Capitol and violently assaulted lawmakers while they were trying to determine the final steps of an election that Donald Trump lost, that totality of circumstances is not going to look great. And that's why I think we see some reporting today that top lawyers in Washington, D.C., are demurring, are not taking the president's calls when he asks for legal defense to help him make this case.

BERMAN: Well, he's still got Rudy Giuliani. If getting impeached twice isn't enough, he signed up Rudy Giuliani. Maybe he can find a way to get impeached a third or fourth time as well with Councilor Giuliani's help.

Errol Louis, Julie Pace, thanks so much for being with us. LOUIS: Thank you.

BERMAN: President-elect Joe Biden rolling out his vaccine plan today, still pushing the goal of 100 million vaccinations in the first hundred days. How realistic is that?

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[06:46:31]

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES: The vaccine rollout in the United States has been a dismal failure thus far.

This is one of the most challenging operational efforts we have ever undertaken as a nation. We'll have to move heaven and earth to get more people vaccinated, to create more places for them to get vaccinated, to mobilize more medical teams to get shots in people's arms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That's President-elect Joe Biden slamming the Trump administration's vaccine rollout. Biden's goal is to vaccinate 100 million Americans in his first 100 days. As of this morning, only 11 million Americans have been vaccinated.

Joining us now is CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, great to see you.

So, part of the problem with these vaccinations has been that the states are ill-equipped to have -- to meet this aspirational goal. They don't have the infrastructure, sometimes they don't have the manpower. So, have you heard how President Biden plans to change that?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, we're starting to hear some specific plans. We're going to hear more today. Yesterday was sort of larger framework. But they talk, first of all, about a lot of money going towards this. You know, there was, as part of this $1.9 trillion package that you're hearing about, $400 billion is going specifically to vaccines, ramping up testing, and reopening schools. So a lot of it towards vaccines, talking about things like these large vaccination fairs, community vaccination clinics, things like that that would allow people to easier access vaccines.

We need to hear about actually increasing manpower, just personnel, to be able to administer these vaccines. That seems to have been a rate- limited step. And also need to understand how the private sector is going to sort of be a part of this as well. I mentioned to you before, I've been talking to people within the national pharmacy retailers. I mean they have incredible capacity, you know, 100 million doses per month they say they can do. Are they going to be able to do it? Do they have the resources they need to take this on? Perhaps. You know, there's little nuances. You know, you have to observe people after they receive their shot for 15 to 30 minutes. Where -- is that going to happen in the pharmacy? Do they have the space to do that? If there is an allergic reaction, do they have the resources to be able to take care of someone? So these types of things need to be addressed. They're very important.

But, yes, you know, I think we're starting to hear this plan and it's obviously a huge priority for them.

BERMAN: We're starting to also learn about the personnel decisions that are being made. "The New York Times" reporting moments ago that former FDA Chief David Kessler is going to take over Operation Warp Speed. And we learned yesterday Andy Slavitt, who helped un-f Obamacare, the computer system back in 2014, is also going to be involved in this. Some people look at this as a kind of health care dream team being put on the case.

GUPTA: Yes. Yes. I was trading some messages with Andy Slavitt about that yesterday. And, you know, David Kessler is someone who is well known. I mean he was part of this sort of transitional task force, along with Vivek Murthy and Jeff Zients and people like that.

You know, he's -- he's been around a long time. He's -- he was FDA commissioner for Presidents Bush and Clinton, worked with Dr. Fauci quite a bit in the past, specifically around HIV/AIDS.

You know, Moncef Slaoui, you know, who -- who, you know, by all accounts did an incredible job, came from the sector of pharma development. David Kessler comes more from the sort of sector of pharma regulation. So, you know, I think -- I think it sounds like it's an interesting pick, a good pick.

[06:50:02]

He's obviously got a lot of work cut out for him because we talk about these two vaccines, Moderna and Pfizer, that have been authorized. There may be more on the way.

But also, you know, we haven't talked as much about the various therapeutics, the monoclonal antibodies, the potential other antivirals. There's all these other things that are sort of out there that are brewing that he's going to have to sort of be, you know, taking command over.

CAMEROTA: We know that Dr. Fauci is going to be staying on, and not Dr. Deborah Birx, who, of course, for so long was one of the faces of the this. It's just interesting to see what choices Joe Biden's making.

GUPTA: Yes. I mean, you know, a lot of familiar faces from previous administrations. But it's clear that, you know, some of the folks that were part of the of existing task force are no longer going to be there. You know, I don't know what all those personnel decisions are yet, what's going to happen at the FDA, what's going to happen with the testing czar, Admiral Brett Giroir, we'll see. But it's clear that, you know, they've got some specific plans. Hopefully we're going to hear some of those details, though, on these

things because we talk about the vaccines, testing. I mean we haven't talked enough about testing. Does that mean antigen testing is going to be available in schools, are going to be available at a building, like the studio where you're working now since you can get tested on a regular basis. We'll see what this all means. It's going to be very critical over the next few months. Vaccine's important, but these next few months are perhaps the most critical in this entire pandemic.

BERMAN: Quickly, Sanjay, you're a member of a club that apparently has 1.3 million members. The CDC, for the first time overnight, told us how many people have received both doses of vaccines, it's 1.3 million. What does that number tell you and where really should we be?

GUPTA: Yes, I mean, we should be a lot higher than that, obviously, you know, so that -- that refer -- out of the 11 or so million people that have received shots, only about 1.3 million have received both shots right now. That's critical. I mean if you look -- talk to all the scientists, they'll say, it's the two shots on schedule that gives you the maximum protection that we're talking about, 90 to 95 percent.

For me, incidentally, I got my second shot a week ago. It was the Pfizer vaccine. If you look at the data carefully, what it says is that seven days after the second shot is when you get to that maximum protection. So that day is today for me.

When I got the second shot, just as a note, you know, the first shot I really had no symptoms, no side effects at all. Second shot was not bad, but about 12 hours after I took it, I had a sore arm, a low-grade fever, just felt like I needed to go to bed. Twelve hours after that, I felt, you know, pretty much back to normal again. But that number should be a lot higher, closer to 10, 20 million by this point, for sure.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, thank you. We'll speak to you again later on NEW DAY.

GUPTA: OK.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, the FBI warning about extensive online chatter that they are hearing that's calling for more violence. So we'll tell you how states across the country are preparing, next.

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[06:56:53]

BERMAN: New details this morning about how Ivanka Trump and Jared Kushner are, frankly, taking care of themselves.

CNN's Kate Bennett joins us now with this brand new reporting.

Kate, what have you learned?

KATE BENNETT, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, basically, John, this is a couple and a family who rely on a brand, as we know, for decades to sort of keep them going forward. It's very challenging now departing the White House to rely on that brand when the last thing that we've seen of this administration, of course, are these horrific images of the insurrection.

That has Jared Kushner and Ivanka Trump in a bit of a panic as they look to their future. Entering the White House was a completely different situation. I talked to a lot of sources today who say they're questioning everything now from where they're going to live after the White House to what their careers will be.

This has also put in jeopardy a potential political future for Ivanka Trump. She has not made any secret to those close to her that she, too, would some day like to run for office. There's been talk of her moving to Florida where they've bought property to perhaps challenge Marco Rubio in 2022. This could all put those things in the balance as they leave the White House.

Very difficult now for them to tout any achievements that they've made inside this administration, sort of in a farewell tour that they were planning, that now is compromised because, of course, it's very difficult for Ivanka Trump to make the videos and to talk about her accomplishes when everyone is seeing what has happened in the wake of the end of her father's presidency. Most of the people I spoke to said that this is going to be an extremely difficult post-White House time for them. The future is unclear. They are not going to be welcomed back to New York, as we've reported before, by their social circles. Bedminster, where they have a home, could also be challenging. And now it's looking like Florida could be the next step for this couple.

John, back to you.

BERMAN: Yes, the good-bye video doesn't look quite as good if you're making it in front of the fences being erected around the Capitol to keep it safe.

BENNETT: Exactly.

BERMAN: Kate Bennett, terrific reporting. Thanks so much.

NEW DAY continues right now?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The nation's Capitol on high alert and on edge.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Fears over renewed attacks in Washington, D.C., have turned the Capitol building into a fortress.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's a major security threat and we are working to mitigate those threats.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is crazy. This is the most extreme I've seen in 16 years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: From January 6th alone, we've already identified over 200 suspects. If you're out there, FBI agents are coming to find you.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I was just, you know, trying to fight as best I could. You know, how do I survive this situation?

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT-ELECT FOR THE UNITED STATES: Come Wednesday, we begin a new chapter.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

BERMAN: All right, welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.

We have chilling accounts of being under attack, lives hanging in the balance. For the first time we're hearing accounts from Washington, D.C., police officers who withstood the invasion of the U.S. Capitol. So important this morning because of what we're facing now, as the FBI director says they're detecting an extensive amount of online chatter.

CNN has learned there are considerations about raising the terror threat level.

[07:00:03]

Twelve-foot fences now in place outside the U.S. Capitol, 21,000 National Guard troops.