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America on High Alert for More Attacks, FBI Warns of Armed Protests; Sources Say, Trump Lawyers to Argue January 6th Remarks Protected Speech. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 15, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Considerations about raising the terror level.

[07:00:02]

12-foot fences now in place outside the U.S. Capitol, 21,000 National Guard troops at the ready. The National Mall is pretty much locked ahead of the inauguration next week.

And FBI Director Christopher Wray finally speaking in public about the threats and he did it in a meeting with the vice president, Mike Pence.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHRIS WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: We are seeing an extensive amount of concerning online chatter, is the best way I would describe it, about a number of events surrounding the inauguration. And together with our partners, we evaluate those threats and what kind of resources to deploy against them. Right now, we're tracking calls for potential armed protests.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: Here is the good news. More than 100 people have now been arrested for their roles in that riot, including the man seen here beating a police officer with an American flag. Here was his motivation.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

PETER FRANCIS STAGER, CHARGED IN U.S. CAPITOL INSURRECTION: That entire building is filled with treasonous traitors. Death is the only remedy for what's in that building.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: This morning, for the first time, we get to hear from the D.C. police officers who were attacked by that mob, including this one seen on video being crushed in a doorway by the terrorists, and another seen here being attacked, tased and surrounded by that blood thirsty mob.

CNN's Shimon Prokupecz is live in Washington with these extraordinary interviews. Shimon?

SHIMON PROKUPECZ, CNN CRIME AND JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT: Yes, truly extraordinary, Alisyn, when you listen to these officers tell their story, the pain, the fear that they felt. For the first time, we're hearing from them and their the words they say, the picture they paint are certainly terrifying. Take a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

PROTESTERS: USA. USA. USA.

PROKUPECZ (voice over): In last week's deadly coup attempt at the U.S. Capitol, a pro-Trump mob swarmed the building, outnumbering and battling police officers fighting to defend it.

OFFICER MICHAEL FANONE, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: It was difficult to offer any resistance when you're only about 30 guys going up against 15,000.

PROKUPECZ: D.C. Metro Police Officer Michael Fanone was in the group of officers at the west front entrance of the Capitol as rioters forced their way in. They eventually pushed them outside into the crowd, where Fanone says he was tasered several times.

FANONE: I remember guys were stripping me of my gear and then some guy started getting a hold of my gun and they were screaming out, you know, kill him with his own gun. At that point, you know, it was just like self-preservation, you know, how do I survive this situation.

PROKUPECZ: While trapped, the 40-year-old says he thought about using his gun to fight back.

FANONE: That would definitely give him the justification that they were looking for to kill me if they already didn't have made that up in their minds. So, the other option I thought of was, you know, try to appeal to somebody's humanity. And I just remember yelling out that I have kids and it seemed to work. Some people in the crowd started to encircle me and try to offer me some level of protection.

A lot of people have asked me, you know, my thoughts on the individuals in the crowd that, you know, that helped me or tried to offer some assistance. And I think kind of the conclusion I've come to is like, you know, thank you, but (BLEEP) you for being there.

PROKUPECZ: This horrifying video shows the moment the violent mob storms into a tunnel of the building, trapping and crushing D.C. Metro Police Officer Daniel Hodges by a door.

OFFICER DANIEL HODGES, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: There's a guy ripping my mask off and he was able to rip away my baton and beat me with it. And he was practically foaming at the mouth, so just these people were true believers in the worst way.

When things were looking bad, obviously, I was calling out for all I was worth and an officer behind me was able to get me enough room to pull me out of there And they brought me to the rear, so I was able to extricate myself.

PROKUPECZ: Hodges miraculously leaving the attack without any major injuries, saying he was shocked that some rioters thought authorities would be on their side.

HODGES: The cognitive dissidence and the zealotry of these people is unreal. They were waving the thin blue line flag and telling us, we're not your enemies while they were attacking us and killed one of us.

PROKUPECZ: The insurrection is even using unusual means in their efforts to break into the most secure areas of the U.S. Capitol building.

OFFICER CHRISTINA LAURY, D.C. METROPOLITAN POLICE DEPARTMENT: The individuals were pushing, shoving officers, hitting officers, they were spraying us with what we are calling -- it's essentially bear mace.

[07:05:00]

PROKUPECZ: With President-elect Joe Biden's inauguration just days away, Washington, D.C., is on high alert and Hodges says he hopes any pro-Trump extremists stay out of the city to avoid another situation like last week's insurrection.

HODGES: Stay home, stop this, but, you know, on the other hand, I kind of hope -- well, I hope they're caught. Let's leave it at that.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

PROKUPECZ (on camera): And, guys, it is the action of these officers and the many D.C. officers who came in as reinforcements after the Capitol police were overwhelmed, saved many lives. Law enforcement officials say that it gave time for the Capitol police, what the D.C. police did, it allowed them to move. It allowed the Capitol police to move many of the lawmakers out of harm's way.

The U.S. attorney here in D.C., who is running this investigation, saying some of the video, some of the other information that we're going to learn in the days to come and weeks to come, is going to be shocking. The hand-to-hand battle that many of these officers had with this vicious mob, truly, we have not seen the full picture yet.

BERMAN: Shimon Prokupecz, thank you so much for bringing us that, the reaction, the feeling, the suffering that those officers had to go through. Thank you so much for telling their story.

Joining me now is the acting deputy of Homeland Security -- the deputy acting Homeland Security secretary, Ken Cuccinelli. Ken, thank you so much for being with us.

I hope you had a chance to hear those stories from the D.C. Metro Police --

KEN CUCCINELLI, ACTING DEPUTY SECRETARY, DEPARTMENT OF HOMELAND SECURITY: Yes, I was listening to the report, as you all were doing it.

BERMAN: Yes. What's your reaction to that?

CUCCINELLI: Frankly, I appreciate hearing the -- well, I very much appreciate America being able to hear the perspective of officers facing a mob. We've had this -- you know, we've had this going on for some time, and what happened at the Capitol was sort of the penultimate event.

BERMAN: I think it was the ultimate event.

CUCCINELLI: It was terrible. It was terrible, it was a failure by the leadership and realize -- I appreciate the perspective of individual police, because the failure of their own leadership to prepare for that put them in worst positions. When the whole department doesn't prepare for these possibilities, then individual officers get put in very difficult decision-making positions.

And you heard from the one officers who said, you know, I felt someone tugging on my gun. Well, that brings you to a really dangerous decision point for that officer. And those are not where we want to be. We want to be able to deal with these situations out front and the Capitol police who was responsible for this really failed to do it.

I appreciate Metro Police and Federal Protective Service and Secret Service added officers to help them out, but they were not prepared. And now, when you look ahead to the inauguration --

BERMAN: We'll talk about that in a second. We'll talk about preparation. Let me talk about the inauguration. Let me talk about where we are this morning, Ken, because we heard Christopher Wray, the FBI director, and I believe you were at that briefing, right, with the vice president, said there's an extensive amount of online chatter about what and by whom?

CUCCINELLI: So Director Wray and I the day before briefed over 5,900 state and local participants on that same intelligence and we certainly agree there is a good deal of online chatter. It isn't just about Washington, by the way. There's also conversations about state capitols, though very unspecific, no particular state capitol mentioned or identified, just this elevated online chatter that indicates a higher level of tension right now. And so, it's that higher level of tension that we focus on --

BERMAN: By whom?

CUCCINELLI: Because we don't -- as Director Wray said, there's no specific credible threats at this point in time. There's just this raised level of tension. And so we're raising our security level. And we're doing it across the country.

BERMAN: You say we're raising our security level. CNN has reported that there is a consideration to raise the terror threat level specifically, the National Terrorism Advisory System. Talk to me about the considerations there, whether it will happen and what that will signify. CUCCINELLI: At this point in time, the decision has been made not to raise that level. Again, we are, as we communicated with our state partners, we've prepared our own civilian law enforcement around the country to be ready to deploy to assist states and local allies to the extent they call on us to do so and we respond to their calls.

But we are pre-positioning people on alert statuses around the country so that we can respond more quickly, so that we're available to them if they need us, just as we have done here in the Washington metro area, for the areas of our responsibility and the nation's Capitol.

BERMAN: President-elect Joe Biden has placed Lisa Monaco, who will be deputy attorney general, who he will nominate to be deputy attorney general, he's asked her to step aside from that for the moment to deal with inauguration security for the transition.

[07:10:07]

What's your contact been with her and the Biden transition in general?

CUCCINELLI: So, we had a previously scheduled, really all-cabinet exercise at the end of last week, where we walked through with the incoming cabinet. And that's some of us in -- across the current administration. A series of disaster exercises, not inauguration related. This was preplanned, things like hurricanes, cyber attacks, that sort of thing, to walk them through.

And Lisa participated in that, as did Attorney General Rosen. They were both at the Department of Justice. And a lot of this, as you might imagine, was done remotely, a consistent way we've operated in the COVID environment. So that's really my only interaction with her in particular.

I will say that the day after the Capitol attack, I did ask our transition lead in the Department of Homeland Security to offer to the Biden folks the ability to onboard people before January 20th, which is highly unusual, so they could see all of the preparation and the final execution of the security arrangements for the inauguration from the inside, not just yet daily briefs. They have not taken us up on that, though we have continued to brief them regularly. And, you know, they've had access to all the information they've requested on that.

BERMAN: Ken, there is an intelligence briefing that went out on the 13th, which was two days ago, and it talks about the ongoing claims that the election was stolen. It says, quote, amplified perceptions of fraud surrounding the outcome of the general election and the change and control of the presidency and the Senate very likely will lead to an increase in violence.

We heard Officer Daniel Hodges of D.C. Metro Police tell us about the true believers who were attacking him at the Capitol, believers in what, believers that the election was stolen. And we know that President Trump this week is still telling people that he won the election. So what impact do you think that has on the threat of violence? CUCCINELLI: So that is definitely one of the narratives in the online chatter. It is, by no means, the only one, but it is one of them. And I think the key is in the disaster that happened at the Capitol on January 6th that was related to that theme, the high-profile arrests being made by the FBI, not only to bring people who committed violence to justice, something that we have always said at Department of Homeland Security, no matter who it is, they should be brought to justice, but also to demonstrate to America and to anybody who may want to try to copy that behavior, that justice will be done, that we are going to be aggressive, the whole federal team will be aggressive, not only in investigating, but prosecuting that.

BERMAN: Ken, if that's part of the online chatter, if some of the online chatter you're hearing is still saying that the election was stolen, the president is still out there saying he won it. He hasn't said anywhere yet that he lost the election. Does he need to definitively tell these people, I lost, to stop telling them the election was stolen?

CUCCINELLI: Well, I think the statement you're talking about was the day after -- was January 7th, was the concession speech, when he also talked about opposing violence. I think that's really the --

BERMAN: He said there will be a transition, he never said, I lost, he never said, the election wasn't stolen.

CUCCINELLI: Well, that's what that means. And the whole team has been openly working through that transition for some time.

BERMAN: Then why aren't these people getting that message? They're not getting it because the president hasn't said, I lost. He's still telling people in private, I won, I won.

CUCCINELLI: John, I can't speak for those individuals. I can tell you what we're doing from behaving similarly again and the security steps we're taking to be prepared regardless of which sorts of rioters show up, whether it's in state Capitols or the nation's Capitol, to be prepared for it. And we are on a fore-leaning footing to do that.

BERMAN: Would it help to get a definitive message from the president on this?

CUCCINELLI: Well, the message I've seen broadcast is an anti-violence message that anyone who has complained should remain peaceful in expressing them, which is what we've been saying in the Department of Homeland Security for the last eight months, where we've seen this kind of violence in different parts of the country, as well.

BERMAN: What role do you think that white supremacists had in the attack on the Capitol?

CUCCINELLI: Well, I think this was the bad elements of Trump supporters combined with some other people. You've heard other elements were represented there and were being violent, as well.

[07:15:03] But this was the violent elements that were present there that day.

And as so often happens, the majority of people who show up want to be peaceful protesters and then those who want to be violent take advantage of that and shield themselves with those folks.

BERMAN: The Washington Post is reporting --

CUCCINELLI: And that is an ongoing tactic that we watch out for.

BERMAN: The Washington Post is reporting that dozens of white supremacists were at the event, including dozens who were on the terrorist screening database, a terror watch list. You heap a lot of blame on Capitol police, and there will be an accounting. There already has been an accounting on Capitol police, maybe their lack of preparation for this. But if there were people on this terrorist watch list who were in Washington for this event, should DHS have known? Shouldn't you have done more to coordinate?

CUCCINELLI: Well, no, we don't screen -- John, we don't screen people coming and going into the nation's Capitol. The only people who get screened, as you're describing, fly. So TSA gets an opportunity to identify and keep them off planes. That doesn't keep them from traveling or moving around.

And I will say the FBI, as the lead counterterrorism, domestic counterterrorism entity, was aware of a couple of people in town, a couple of people were kept an eye on and, you know, so some of that, to the extent the information was available to the federal government, we were taking those sorts of steps.

BERMAN: Well, you were, but they -- they were still there. Ken, you know that a whistleblower in September --

CUCCINELLI: But, John, you don't get to just -- until someone breaks the law, you don't get to tell them they don't get to go from state A to state B.

BERMAN: You can prepare though. You can prepare though. You can prepare though. What did you --

CUCCINELLI: We were prepared.

BERMAN: Were you?

CUCCINELLI: And the Capitol police had the same intel. They had the access to the same intel that we did.

BERMAN: Did you tell them white supremacists were coming into Capitol.

CUCCINELLI: Our longest-serving liaison --

BERMAN: Did you tell them supremacists were coming to the Capitol?

CUCCINELLI: John, they had the exact same intel that we had. They had the same information that we did and they drew different conclusions than we did.

BERMAN: Can I just ask --

CUCCINELLI: And you saw -- you saw, one more point on this, please, John. You saw Mayor Bowser's letter the day before, two days before, where she had access to the same intel as well and told the federal government, look, stay away, stand down, we have this and they didn't.

BERMAN: Can I just -- two more important questions. Number one, in September, there was a DHS whistleblower, Brian Murphy, who suggested that DHS, and you by name, wanted to downplay the threat of white supremacists. What role do you think that may have had in not being ready for this event?

CUCCINELLI: Well, none, because it wasn't true. What he's referring to is the homeland threat assessment and our problem was never the inclusion of one threat. It was the exclusion of all of the other threats.

So Brian Murphy's complaint is being investigated by the inspector general's office. I gave them my interview quite voluntarily on that subject. And I think when that's all said and done, you'll find that on those points, there's no basis to Brian Murphy's allegations.

In fact, Brian Murphy himself -- Brian Murphy himself, in his own words, has effectively defeated those sorts of allegations.

BERMAN: One of the things that traditionally happens before an inauguration is a rehearsal. We understand that was supposed to take place on Sunday, and a rehearsal for the inauguration ceremony. Is that still going to take place?

CUCCINELLI: It is going to take place on Monday, is the current schedule. Secret Service is in charge of running that schedule, but that's done in partnership with the Biden team and it was their decision to delay a day.

Some of the online chatter that you and I were talking about before talks about Sunday the 17th. Again, no specific credible threats, but the chatter focused on that day is something we're paying close attention to. And so I think the decision was made to delay a day and leave the Secret Service in a position and the whole team across the Washington metro area to be prepared to respond on that day, if needed.

Again, we don't have specific threats, but because of the chatter associated with that day, we want to be prepared once again.

BERMAN: Ken Cuccinelli, I appreciate you coming on. I appreciate you being a public face of the administration response to this since the 6th. You've been out there, you have been talking, you have been answering questions, even when others have not. So I do appreciate the work that you've been doing, staying on to the end.

CUCCINELLI: Glad to do it. Thanks, John. BERMAN: So, new this morning, President Trump's legal defense for his impeachment trial coming into focus. What we're learning about his strategy and who he's talking to, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

CAMEROTA: President Trump is reportedly spending his final days in the White House planning his legal strategy for the upcoming Senate trial. CNN has also learned that the president recently discussed his election conspiracy theories with his former adviser, Steve Bannon, for what that's worth. The president may be considering a pardon.

Joining us now, CNN Senior Political Reporter Nia-Malika Henderson and CNN Global Affairs Analyst Susan Glasser. Ladies, great to see you this morning.

So the president is consumed with lots of things, mostly, it sounds like, his Senate trial but also how he will be seen in history, and we have some reporting, Nia, from Kaitlan Collins about some conversations that they're having behind the scenes that I just want to read.

Trump is being consumed by the unraveling of his presidency during his last days in office, according to people around him, which includes a casual discussion among his advisers recently about a possible resignation. Trump shut the idea down almost immediately and he has made clear to his aides in separate conversations that the mere mention of President Richard Nixon, the last president to resign, were banned.

[07:25:01]

Just interesting.

NIA-MALIKA HENDERSON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL REPORTER: Interesting. Listen, Donald Trump is in a league of his own. I mean, you know, he has been impeached twice, Nixon was only impeached once or faced impeachment, faced conviction, and then, of course, resigned, but these are very, very dismal days for this president. He completely squandered his presidency. It was his own doing.

And so in these final days, he sees the movers there, they're hanging the bunting in the sort of decorative, you know, things around the Capitol to show that there's going to be a transition, that there's going to be a new president, and that new president is not going to be Donald Trump. So he is finding himself very isolated, obviously, folks have left the Oval Office, some of them are taking things that may or may not belong to them. So that's where he is.

And, listen, in terms of his place in history, I think we know what his place in history is going to be. He is going to be most likely the worst president. Historians will judge him the worst president that this country has ever seen. And, again, that is his own doing. He squandered his opportunity, whether it was over COVID or in these last many, many months, to tell the truth about losing an election and then, of course, inciting a riot with his lies.

BERMAN: Susan, Kaitlan and Kevin Liptak's reporting also includes this detail, quote, Donald Trump had planned to leave the White House on the 19th. Now, he's going to wait until the morning of the 20th to leave. And he wants this big going-away crowd cheering him on the south lawn as the helicopter takes off. What should we take away from that?

SUSAN GLASSER, CNN GLOBAL AFFAIRS ANALYST: Well, look, we're not surprised, right, that Donald Trump is trying to orchestrate a show right up until the very end. In many ways, his presidency has been all about the show, much more so than it's been certainly about the substance of governing.

But to Nia's point, look, it's now official with the last batch of opinion polls that Donald Trump has been the most unpopular American president in history since public polling began on a regular basis of American presidents, I think in the late 1930s. So Donald Trump is the most unpopular president throughout his tenure, he never was supported, not a single day of his presidency by a majority of Americans. He lost not one, but two presidential elections in the popular vote. He lost this presidential election by definitive means.

He had a choice. He chose to perpetrate probably the biggest lie that we've ever seen by an American president, which is that he won an election that he lost. We now see the terrible violent consequences of it. So, you know, it always was going to be -- I called it a Trump redemeron (ph), the bonfire of the Trump vanities at the end.

CAMEROTA: Well, he has now managed to have a majority of Americans feel a particular way about him, and here is the new ABC News poll. 56 percent of Americans believe that Trump should be removed and disqualified from future office. 42 percent say no to that combo. It's interesting, Nia-Malika.

And so the attention turns to the Senate trial and what his defense will be. And here is what he will be up against. Because last night on CNN, we had the QAnon shaman's lawyer on, who explained where he got his marching orders. Here is that moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ALBERT WATKINS, ATTORNEY FOR CAPITOL RIOT SUSPECT JACOB CHANSLEY (voice over): Over the course of the period from the election to January 6th, it was a driving force by a man he hung his hat on, he hitched his wagon to, he loved Trump, every word, he listened to him. He felt like he was answering the call of our president. He was there at the invitation of our president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Shouldn't he have said, hung his horned helmet on? But either way, Nia-Malika, my point is this. there will be hundreds of people who use that defense.

HENDERSON: That's right. And it sounds about right, from what we all saw that day, the president standing there in front of those thousands of people, telling them that we were going to walk to the Capitol. Of course, he went in the opposite direction and watched the whole thing unfold on T.V., even as lawmakers were calling on him, prevailing on him to call off his supporters, it's something that he didn't want to do, to send in reinforcements. It's something that was delayed in him doing as well.

And so, listen, he can say free speech all he wants, and, listen, and we all know you can't say fire in a crowded movie theater unless there really is a fire. So this idea of the First Amendment is rather silly.

[07:30:00]

But I will say, it still seems unlikely that you can find 17 Republicans to convict Donald Trump. Even if Mitch McConnell goes along with it.