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New Day

Biden Inauguration to be Like No Other, Amid Violent Threats; Shocking Video Inside the Insurrection at U.S. Capitol. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired January 18, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[07:00:00]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is a special holiday edition of New Day, as the nation remembers the life and legacy of Martin Luther King Jr.

Just 53 hours left in Donald Trump's presidency, Joe Biden preparing to take office amid massive security preparations to prevent more violence. The inauguration on Wednesday will look very different than years past. This morning, we have new information for you about what to expect.

We have also learned that the 25,000 National Guard troops deployed in D.C. at the moment are all being vetted because of concerns about any possible insider attack.

Breaking overnight, the FBI announcing new charges against multiple alleged extremists who were linked toll Capitol insurrection. We'll show you some of those.

And this morning, we have this sickening newly released video of the invasion. It's just incredibly revealing, the images and what these domestic terrorists wanted and what they were saying and what they were saying about President Trump.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: Developing this morning, CNN has learned that Donald Trump is preparing to issue around a hundred pardons and commutations some time, obviously, in the next 24 to 48 hours, just before he leaves office. For now, we're told he does not intend to pardon himself or any of his family members, but, obviously, stay tuned. That could seriously change at any moment.

At this point, it does not look as if Trump intends to pardon any of the insurrectionists, but, again, stay tuned. That could change.

We also have new details this morning about the executive orders that President-elect Biden plans to issue his first day in office.

CAMEROTA: Okay. Joining us now, CNN Political Analyst David Gregory and Natasha Alford, Vice President of Digital Content and Senior Correspondent at The Grio. Great to see both of you. David Gregory, I remember so well four years ago, you and I sitting atop the riser on Pennsylvania Avenue, watching the peaceful transfer of power then, marveling at it, marveling at the historic, just moment. All the pomp and circumstance and everything that we watch at an inauguration, this year is going to look so different and feel so different. What are your thoughts as you watch what's happening in Washington, D.C. this morning?

DAVID GREGORY, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, I worry and I'm just saddened, as a citizen, to see what's happening in my city, in Washington, D.C., to go downtown and to see the massive closures, the military encampment, the green zone that I've read about in Baghdad, but never imagined in Washington, D.C. That's what it's like here. I'm hopeful for quiet for the inauguration, but it is going to be muted. We have a raging pandemic and we have such division in the country that it's come to this.

I'm struck by the fact that this president, to the very last moment, grab on to any vestige of executive power that the president has, yet he failed to use the power of the office to do good when it came to combating this pandemic. How much better shape could we be in had he used the power of the presidency, marshaled the energy of the federal government, and even today with this difficult rollout of the vaccine, you see that. He's used it for pardons and he's used his very powerful voice to whip up a mob.

That is what I'm thinking about here in the last gasping days of this presidency.

BERMAN: You know, Natasha, to David's point, we will cross 400,000 deaths in the same 24-hour period where Donald Trump pardons God knows who at this point, maybe himself, although he's not inclined to do that right now. Maybe his kids, although we're told he doesn't intend to do that right now, but certainly, people who have been lobbying, friends of the president, maybe even paying off lawyers close to the president, trying to get pardons. We're talking about a hundred maybe in the next two days.

NATASHA ALFORD, VICE PRESIDENT, DIGITAL CONTENT AND SENIOR CORRESPONDENT, THE GRIO: You just have to take in, John, that we have a president who incited an insurrection just days ago, and he has the presidential power but the moral privilege to decide who gets to go home free. It's just -- it's really striking to take in when you think about that juxtaposition.

And according to The New York Times, you know, there's been an entire market for lobbyists to get paid and to make money off of using their privilege and their relationship with the president to put cases in front of him.

[07:05:06]

And this just completely bucks tradition, which normally you'd go through the Department of Justice and the attorneys would review and carefully think about who deserves these pardons. But, again, this shows the two Americas that we live in, right? The everyday person who perhaps committed a crime trying to feed their families, not getting that same privilege of getting in front of the president and having their pardon reconsidered. And, again, it reflects a president who has been selfish this presidency, who's used this power to abuse and to get favor with others.

And it's ironic, on MLK Day, a day when we celebrate a man who stood for justice and a more equal America that we're looking at this disparity still today.

CAMEROTA: There's still a question, David, of whether or not he'll pardon any of the rioters, insurrectionists, domestic terrorists, call them what you want, they're being charged with a host of different crimes right now, those that have been arrested. And Lindsey Graham, who -- I mean, it's very impossible to know who President Trump listens to at this point, or ever has.

BERMAN: It's impossible to know if Lindsey Graham listens to himself at this point, the shell that occupies the space that Lindsey Graham once did.

CAMEROTA: Here is Lindsey Graham saying that he thinks that it would be, you know, very ill-advised.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): There are a lot of people urging the president to pardon folks who participated in defiling the Capitol, the rioters. I don't care if you went there and spread flowers on the floor, you breached the security at the Capitol, you interrupted a joint session of Congress, you tried to intimidate us all, you should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law and to seek a pardon of these people would be wrong. It would be -- I think it would destroy President Trump and I hope we don't go down that road.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Well, we know that's one of his favorite programs, so maybe he got that message.

GREGORY: Right. I mean, thanks, captain obvious, that it's a bad idea to pardon the insurrectionists. But we don't know if that calculus means anything to President Trump.

But there is something that he said at the end there that it could destroy President Trump. From the point of view of the future of the Republican Party, including the Trump wing of this party, which is the Republican Party at the moment, you know, is there a future? And I do think what Trump has done on January 6th, as the latest stroke, but such a devastating one, and how he's handled these days will have a profound effect on the extent to which he is a kingmaker out of office, let alone if he's somebody who wants to pursue office again.

BERMAN: It is interesting that the impeachment process may handcuff him in his ability to pardon everyone he wants to, Natasha. It may very well be that he is scared, that if he pardons himself or his kids, that Republicans in the Senate would be more likely to convict him in the Senate trial. This moment falls at a very perilous time for Donald Trump.

ALFORD: Right. And so that's why when we look at who he actually gives pardons to, there's no way to fully know, you know, that this decision is being made because it is a just decision or a right decision. A lot of this is about the calculus and, you know, the optics of who he chooses to pick.

So, you know, he doesn't want to necessarily -- if he pardons himself, it gives the impression that he's guilty of something, right? And so we know that advisers have been telling him not to do that. But, again, this is just a president who -- you know, he was influenced by celebrities, he's mad about being shut down on Twitter. We don't know the ways in which he's trying to use this power to plan ahead, be seen a certain way in four years.

And so, again, it's hard to know where Donald Trump really, truly stands in terms of, you know, making an impression, but what we do know is that he gave pardons at the same time that he sent people to die on death row after, you know, we've had a decade of not killing people.

So, again, this is not someone who we should look to for leadership on the issue, but assume that whatever decision he's making is one motivated by self-interest.

CAMEROTA: David --

GREGORY: Can I make one other point, Natasha's important point about the two Americas? I mean, not the way he's using the pardon power, the fact that he has sped up the resumption of federal executions in this country, knowing how unequal the application of the death penalty is in this country totally obscures the fact that he did good around criminal justice reform in this administration.

And what people sympathetic to the president say is probably his biggest flaw is that he gets in his own way, that all of these actions totally overtake the good he's done on areas like criminal justice reform.

BERMAN: Natasha -- oh, sorry. I was just going to say, in this idea, where we're in this hell of a time, I mean, two days before the inauguration, it is Martin Luther King Day, and a day that's supposed to be about peace and justice, and here we are with the nation's Capitol locked down.

[07:10:14]

National Guard troops being screened, because we're afraid of possible insider attacks. It's just a lot to take in.

ALFORD: It is. I remember two administrations ago, you know, standing and watching President Barack Obama be elected, and just this moment in which we felt like we were turning a chapter in America. And now, the week that we're supposed to see the first black and South Asian woman elected to vice president. This is a historic moment and yet we can't celebrate that.

But even before the insurrection, COVID made sure that this was going to be a deadly experience that we had to choose between our lives and celebrating this new chapter.

So there were so many failures on the parts of people who were in power that led up to this moment. And I think, again, it shows the ugliness that has always existed in America. There's always been two experiences of, you know, injustice and suffering and pain and those who live in a bubble of privilege. And this week, it comes together in a way that we just can't deny.

But, again, the silver lining is that we do not have to talk about Donald Trump being in power anymore. And I know that there are many Americans who have been waiting for this day for a long time.

CAMEROTA: Your question was so much better than mine. I was going to go full QAnon. I'm so glad that you've pivoted there.

Guys, thank you very much, great to get both of your thoughts this morning.

ALFORD: Thank you.

BERMAN: So this morning, we're seeing this dramatic new video released by The New Yorker that captures the moments the insurrectionists breached the U.S. Capitol looking for lawmakers. The Washington Post reports that extremists were 60 seconds away and a hundred feet from reaching Vice President Mike Pence.

We do want to warn you that some of the video is disturbing and we haven't censored out the swear words.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You're outnumbered. There's a fucking million of us out there. And we're listening to Trump, your boss.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get out of that chair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, this is our chair.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I agree with you, brother, but it's not ours. It belongs to the vice president of the United States. It's not our chair.

Look, I love you guys, you're brothers, but we can't be disrespectful.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They can steal an election and we can't sit in their chair?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, we're not putting up with that either. Look, it's a P.R. war. You have to understand it's an I.O. war. We can't lose an I.O. war. We're better than that. It's an information operation.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We can't do it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Let's get a snap of that.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes, take a picture.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How'd you all get down there?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Go down the stairs.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And look here. Look.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Ted Cruz's objection to the Arizona --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is his objection. He was going to sell us out all along.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Really?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Look, objection to counting electoral votes of the state of Arizona.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I get a photo of that?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No, wait, that's a --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Okay. All right, all right --

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He's with us.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There's got to be something in here we can fucking use against these scumbags.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: America's republic -- this is good stuff.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, quit acting a fool.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is good. This is all good. This is (INAUDIBLE).

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hawley and Cruz, I think Cruz would want us to do this, so I think we're good.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, absolutely.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

BERMAN: All right. Joining us now, CNN Counterterrorism Analyst Phil Mudd, he's a former Senior Intelligence Adviser with the FBI. And, Phil, the thing that just jumps out to you, as they run in the door, these invaders say, we're listening to Trump. It just jumps off the screen that these are people who have been radicalized. What are your trained eyes see here?

PHILIP MUDD, CNN COUNTERTERRORISM ANALYST: For once, I have to agree with John Berman. I feel like we ought to shut the show down.

CAMEROTA: You're right, we're done.

MUDD: People have been focused a lot on the numbers of people on Capitol Hill, obviously significant. They've been focused on sort of the movement that's been around for years. We were following white supremacists in what we call sovereign citizen people at the bureau when I was there. Sovereign citizens are people who don't recognize the authority of the U.S. government.

The thing that's missing here is perspective on watching extremism around the world, because there is one characteristic here you need to focus on. You need a spark. And that spark has to be charismatic. This country's United States of America, whether you go to Pakistan, whether you go to Iraq, whether you go to Syria, whether you go to Yemen, all places that shouldn't look at all like America.

[07:15:01]

You had -- when I followed extremism there, a human being that was so charismatic they could spark a revolutionary movement in those countries.

So you have to think as the president not just as the commander-in- chief, obviously, for another two days but as a charismatic spark that has the kind that has accelerated extremism around the world.

One more thing, that means the man that we talk about some, but maybe we should talk about more at the middle of this is Jack Dorsey. That is the CEO of Twitter. The inability of the spark to send a message via social media cannot be overestimated. Without the spark, I don't know if you get the movement.

CAMEROTA: I'm so glad you point that out, because The Washington Post reports that online disinformation about the 2020 election has dropped 73 percent since trump was banned from Twitter. 73 percent, it went from conversations about election fraud fell from 2.5 million mentions to 688,000. It's right there. In other words, you can quantify it. You can quantify how much more quiet it's been and how the temperature has come down.

MUDD: And what people need, there's another people I want to introduce here is validation. It's a bunch of people are angry. We've seen angry people. This is an undercurrent in America for decades, maybe more than decades. People feel like they sort of live in a frontier society, you can do whatever you want.

But I mentioned the changing thing is a spark. These people need validation. That spark allows them to say, everything you feel angry about, whether it's you don't have a job, whether it's you couldn't get through high school, whether it's you lost your job to an immigrant, whether it's you don't like to see Guatemalans coming across the border, they need somebody to say, if you're angry about that, that's okay.

One of the more interesting things I learned, again, going back to my time watching extremism in the FBI is the number of times we would find extremist videos, not violent people, but preachers, in a way that a president is a preacher to these people, but preachers on videos, on laptops of the people that we arrested, and those preachers were telling them, what you're thinking, anger about Israel, anger about the United States, what you're thinking is valid and if you want to commit an act of violence, it's okay. It gives people who want to be angry a sense that their views are acceptable, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes. And one more thing, Phil, on that, because, for a long time, I think that I have tried to be sympathetic and open to what they were angry about. But sometimes it's just -- when you heard that roaring, the moaning in that video, that's the mating call of the mad minotaur. He's just venting. He's just howling, actually, howling at the moon there. And you know what, we've all lost jobs. We've all struggled. Many of us have struggled at times to pay our bills. But we didn't invade the Capitol.

And so it's like, at some point, you have to shut off the anger and say, it's not rationale.

MUDD: You know, let me be clear on this. You're the first person to ask me about this. I cannot stand it when I hear a statement start with, I understand their anger, but. Actually, I don't. You say you live in the greatest country on the planet, you can wake up and do what you want. You can get a job wherever you want. You can go to whatever state you want. If you get an education, you're going to get a good job. The economy will bounce back. The stock market is doing well. You can do whatever you want in the greatest country in the world and you choose violence, which is either a state, local or a federal violation when you say you trust the rule of law. You just broke it.

So this -- this idea in this conversation that we're having, that we started with, I understand their anger, but, can we please stop the first half of the sentence? I don't get their anger. Go get a damn job and shut up.

BERMAN: Phil Mudd, we appreciate you being with us.

MUDD: Pardon me, just saying.

BERMAN: I hope people understand what you're saying about the spark, the idea that Donald Trump is the inspirational leader of the people who invaded the U.S. Capitol, the inspirational leader of essentially domestic terrorists. Phil Mudd, you know it because you've seen it for decades. We appreciate you sharing your knowledge with us this morning.

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Phil.

BERMAN: So how are concerned lawmakers this morning about the likelihood of more violence? We will speak with one of the members who was in the House chamber and is looking forward to the days ahead.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:20:00]

BERMAN (voice over): This is new video, filmed by a war correspondent from The New Yorker. It takes us inside the deadly siege at the U.S. Capitol. You can see the invaders hunting for lawmakers, photographing documents at the desks of senators. Some of the images here, some of the language might be disturbing.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Where the fuck are they? Where are they?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN (on camera): I want to bring in Congressman Debbie Dingell, a Democrat from Michigan. Congresswoman, thanks so much for being with us.

Look, you lived it. You lived through it. But what's it like to see that video now?

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): When we were right in the middle of it, I don't think I really realized how much danger we were in. We hadn't seen television. And, quite frankly, if you are a woman from Michigan, I've been living in the Donald Trump hell tunnel for a couple of years with militia outside of my home, with assault weapons, rants and raves.

And I thought I was safe inside United States Capitol, when, ultimately, they did evacuate us, we did hear the pounding on the doors, heard the gunshot. It was really real, but it was the aftermath, when you really realized they wanted to kidnap members that day, they wanted to kill members that day. And I am grateful to the law enforcement that kept us safe that day.

BERMAN: And also, if you listen to what they were saying, some of the things they were saying, as they walk in the door, they say, we're listening to Trump. That's what they told the Capitol police officers. We're listening to Trump, they said.

DINGELL: I mean, what happened last week really was an attack on our democracy and an attack on our government. But I want to say to you, one of my colleagues said to me, you're so calm.

[07:25:00]

I wasn't calm, but if you are Gretchen Whitmer or Dana Nessel or (INAUDIBLE) myself, this is what we deal with when we are at home every single day. I'm always alert. I don't know where it's going to come from.

And, by the way, I got circled by one of the Trump caravans and the flags and everybody got scared. I went up and talked to them. We've got to stop this conflict. We've got to try to figure out how we're going to talk to each other.

But what happened last week was clear collusion. It could have been much, much worse and it's shaking people's faith in the fundamental pillars of our democracy. And I'll be damned if we're going to let that happen. And we're going to fight back and that means all of us have to fight back.

BERMAN: Have you thought about what you're going to feel like at 12:01 P.M. on Wednesday after Joe Biden takes the oath?

DINGELL: I think about it all the time. Joe Biden and my husband were good friends. They worked together for 40 years. You know what I did? I went back and read Joe's eulogy of John. And I found the things that Joe said about John and just as that great about Joe.

This is a man who believes in people. He has empathy. He cares about people. He cares about human dignity. And he's not afraid to work across the aisle. We need somebody right now that's got a heart and soul, that knows that this country has been divided by fear and hatred. And he's as horrified as any of us by what happened last week, but we're not going to fix the problem by fighting each other. He is going to try to bring people together, and I actually think he is the right man at the right place at the right time for a reason.

BERMAN: Just listening to you and hearing the tone in your voice, I get a sense of how much you think is at stake this morning.

DINGELL: I do. Our democracy is at stake. This -- what you saw last week has shaken a lot of people. But if you've -- I've talked to Alisyn about this for years, the fear and the hatred that has been dividing this country. And I think people didn't understand what we were seeing.

Look, you would have the Michigan militia attack you or -- you do know how they feel and what's happening, but a lot of people in America didn't. It was a wake-up call. And, by the way, as Democrats, we need to be very careful. And I've said this and sometimes people get mad at me. 70 million people voted for Donald Trump. Not all of them, a large majority of them, were not the people that you saw at the Capitol who are Michigan -- I call them Michigan militia, because it's what I deal with, militia or Proud Boys or Boogaloo or whatever. There's something we're not listening to them, we're not hearing them. We have got to do a better job of listening to each other, understanding where the frustrations are and how we find that common ground. That's what democracy is. And our democracy is at a very fragile state.

BERMAN: The A.P. reported this morning, and this is something that CNN has reported bits of over the last week, that the 25,000 National Guard troops, the FBI is running background checks on all the troops that are there or going to be there protecting you and others this week because of concerns, possible loyalties to the militia groups, possible fears of an inside job on inauguration day. Your feelings about that?

DINGELL: It makes me sad. I think everybody in America would be sad that we have to worry about those kinds of loyalties. But I have talked to enough people. I mean, Jim Clyburn has been very clear. I'm a student of the Capitol. I can't find Jim Clyburn's office if my life depend on it. I always have to have staff remind me out to get there. And those who broke into the Capitol knew right how to get to it. We have seen people with maps saying, go here, go here.

Quite frankly, I was one of the members, and I didn't think about it at the time, as someone giving someone tours, I was furious the 5th of January because there was a group of tourists in the building with MAGA hats and not wearing masks. And I went to the police and said, why are they here? They're not supposed to be here. And I was told, they came in with a member, we're not allowed to say no to a member. And then he told me, I had to go told them to wear a mask and you better believe I did. So we got a couple.

We also -- we keep focusing on the 6th, but COVID is really out there and alive too. And me and my colleagues have now gotten it for (INAUDIBLE) irresponsibility. But people were in that Capitol that didn't belong in the Capitol with the speaker, and so promised that me that they would address it because I was so upset (INAUDIBLE). We need more facts. We need an investigation. We need to understand what happened, how it happened and we need to hold people accountable.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Debbie Dingell, I appreciate your time this morning. Thank you for coming on.

[07:30:00]

And we wish you a healthy, happy, safe, historic week in Washington.

DINGELL: To you, to the country.