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Dr. Anthony Fauci is Interviewed about the Vaccine; Power- Sharing Agreement Stalled in the Senate; Transportation Workers Suffer amid Crisis. Aired 6:30-7a ET

Aired January 22, 2021 - 06:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[06:30:00]

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, CHIEF MEDICAL ADVISER ON CORONAVIRUS TO PRESIDENT BIDEN: Cause of what we're hearing that sometimes doses are not being given and they're hanging around and another state is saying, we need more doses, we have so many people that are lined up. You've got to get into the local area and find out what's going on here, what's wrong, let's try to fix it, because there -- the reason I say that, John is that I've had experience more than one time, several times, backs months ago, for example, when you're sitting in the situation room and you hear, OK, things look pretty good, you know, this is happening, that's happening. You go home. You get on the phone to the people who are actually doing it and they say it's not working well.

So what we need to do is to get there and partner with the people who are actually doing it and say, OK, what went wrong here and how can we help you fix it, or how can we help you help yourself fix it? And I think that's what you're going to be starting to see. In fact, it's happening right now.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: You do -- and I have two more questions. And one -- they're both basically the same thing. You understand how Americans can be watching this saying, if Dr. Anthony Fauci doesn't understand how the vaccines that have been shipped aren't getting in people's arms, how are we supposed to understand that? You see how -- go ahead.

FAUCI: Well, John, I think you're making a leap here, you know, give me a break on that one. I -- the reason I say "I don't know," is what I said yesterday at the press conference. One of the things that we want to do, that we spoke about with the president, if you don't know the answer, don't guess, go and figure out what it is and help people fix it. And that's what I'm saying. You're going to ask me, why does this group here not have enough doses and this group here has doses that are lying around? I have to tell you honestly, I don't know right now. We've got to go back and figure out what that is. And the important thing is to fix it. So I don't think people should say we don't know what's going on. You find out what's going on, on a case- by-case basis and then you try to have generalities which will fix it all. That's what I'm talking about.

BERMAN: So the CDC updated its guidance last night suggesting you can get your second dose of the vaccine up to six weeks after the first dose.

FAUCI: Right.

BERMAN: You told Chris last night, Chris Cuomo, that you're taking a chance if you do that.

FAUCI: Right.

BERMAN: Again, the CDC is saying one thing, you're saying another. How -- isn't that confusing to the American people?

FAUCI: John, no. OK. Let me explain. The data that is from the clinical trials says if you get a Moderna dose, a first dose, you get it at 28 days. If you get a Pfizer, you get it at 21 days. That's what the clinical trial says. That's the optimal.

What the CDC is saying, sometimes the situation is stressed where it's very difficult to be exactly on time. So we're saying, you can probably do it six weeks later, namely two additional weeks. Quite frankly, immunologically, I don't think that's going to make a big difference. It doesn't coincide with the precise data. But from a practical standpoint, I don't see a big problem with that if the situation on the ground means the stress is such you can't precisely do 28 days or 21 days. There's no disagreement at all between me and the CDC. They're saying, practically speaking, if you've got to do that, it very likely is not going to make a big difference.

BERMAN: I'm really glad that you explained that to us and can lay out all the facts like this and make the case. I mean, no, look, it's important -- it's important to have the American people understand exactly what's happening, which is why it's good that you are explaining things at length now. So I really appreciate you coming on this morning, Dr. Fauci. Appreciate the candor. Thanks for being with us.

FAUCI: My pleasure. Thanks, John.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Really interesting, John. A lot of information. It changes all the time, which is why it's so helpful to have CNN's chief medical correspondent, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, join us now to explain what he heard.

So what -- what are the headlines that jumped out at you, Sanjay?

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, that was a -- that was a great interview. Got a lot of information out of there. And it's good, as you point out, to hear Dr. Fauci being able to talk for that long and get this kind of information.

Several things jumped out.

First of all, with regard to vaccinations, what is becoming increasingly clear, it's not just the number of vaccinations, which Dr. Fauci, you know, has said, look, we can do better than 100 million in a hundred days. Hopefully, we will. Because the second part of that is, it's not just the amount of vaccinations, it's the speed of vaccinations. And I think this is a crucial point. These mutations that we're talking about, these variants, which I think are the thing that we really have to keep a very close eye on, the chance of them actually developing these mutations occurring occurs as the virus spreads more and more. So if you can vaccinate a lot of people and do it quickly, obviously you provide the protection, but you also reduce the likelihood that these variants are going to be out there and become problematic.

I also thought it was really interesting, you asked about N-95 masks. I mean the N-95 masks are the gold standard masks.

[06:35:01]

In Europe right now they are in the process of finalizing some of these rules and regulations about using N-95 masks in public. Should we be doing the same thing here because if you're going to wear a mask, these are the gold standard masks. You have these variants that are more transmissible. Why shouldn't we be doing everything we can to protect people as much as possible when they're out in public?

And then you also asked about the Johnson & Johnson vaccine. And, you know, it's -- I think this is potentially a very bright spot. We will see. There's data that should be coming out -- I've been talking to some of my sources -- data that should be coming out even over the next week potentially. And if that data is promising, that data -- you know, they could be applying for Emergency Use Authorization, like we saw with Moderna and Pfizer.

Important to note that the Johnson & Johnson trials have been occurring in many places around the world, including South Africa, where this variant that we've been talking about of concern has been circulating. So if this vaccine works there, within that trial population, that would obviously be good news in terms of addressing that variant if it were to get to the United States or spread more, you know, more robustly around the world.

So lots of headlines there. I thought it was interesting, you know, how people will sort of interpret this information about the -- you know, the switching out the Moderna or the Pfizer, if you got the Pfizer first and then you go to the Moderna or vice versa. That's probably one of the most common questions I get. In exceptional situations, as you drilled down on with Dr. Fauci, you can switch them out, only if you absolutely have to and you can even extend that window to six weeks. There's no data behind that, but there's no reason to suggest it wouldn't work.

BERMAN: It was interesting, look, he was -- I think he was frustrated, maybe even annoyed with me when I asked him about some of the confusion over why we don't know why so many vaccines that have been shipped haven't been administered. And that frustration is OK. I don't mind that he's frustrated at it. I mean I want to ask the question. It is interesting -- his answer was interesting, which is, I want to find out. We need to find out why that is and fix it. But it is the kind of thing, Sanjay, that seems to me we have to get some answers on soon.

GUPTA: We really do. And, yes, I sense that frustration as well. I mean, you know, Dr. Fauci is one of the only bridges, really, between the last administration and this administration with regard to some of these specific issues. So I think, you know, there is some sense of ownership of the vaccine and the rollout, you know, from the previous administration and now how it will be going forward.

But it's been -- it's been confusing. I mean I spent a lot of time talking to people at the various state levels and it's not clear. Here in Georgia, for example, 30 to 35 percent of vaccine has been actually administered, you know, whereas it's, you know, in some states it's much, much higher than that. In some places demand has outstripped supply and, frankly, in other places, supply has outstripped demand. Why is that happening if places aren't using it fast enough, should it be, you know, should the vaccine sort of be dispensed in different ways? We will see. I think it's going to continue to remain a challenge given how fragmented the country has been so far. So it's going to be a big challenge to get that out there like that and fix that.

CAMEROTA: It seems like there needs to be one point person. I'm just throwing that out in case Dr. Anthony Fauci wants to take that advice. I mean it seems like there needs to be one person to call all the states and explain all that.

But, anyway, Sanjay, we're being wrapped. We're being given the hard wrap.

Thank you very much for all of that information.

GUPTA: OK.

CAMEROTA: OK, there are intense negotiations already underway in the Senate. The one key bargaining chip that could be holding up major issues.

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[06:42:56]

BERMAN: So, the fate of the impeachment trial, cabinet confirmations and major legislation all in flux right now in the Senate. So far, there is no agreement as to who's even in charge. The incoming Senate majority leader, Chuck Schumer, and the man who will soon be the minority leader, Mitch McConnell, they have to agree how to divide power in the 50/50 Senate. They have not done so.

Joining us now is Julie Pace, she's a Washington bureau chief for the "Associated Press."

And, Julie, look, arguments over filibusters, it may seem arcane, but this all has to do with who gets to run things and how much power they will have. And Mitch McConnell here, on his way out as majority leader, he ain't making it easy for Chuck Schumer.

JULIE PACE, WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF, "ASSOCIATED PRESS": He's certainly not. And you're right, you know, the filibuster might sound arcane, people might kind of have their eyes glazed over when we talk about Senate procedures, but this could be the whole ballgame for Joe Biden when it comes to his ability to get his agenda through. You know, after those Georgia Senate races, people, Democrats, felt so excited that they had this majority. But the reality is that this is a razor-thin majority. It will require Kamala Harris to come in and break ties.

And so Biden may need, eventually -- he's not there yet -- but may need to try to get rid of the filibuster if he wants a chance of getting major, big-ticket legislation through the Senate.

CAMEROTA: And if that doesn't happen, if they decide not to get rid of the filibuster, excuse me, does that just -- should we just prepare for gridlock for the next four years?

PACE: Joe Biden argues, give him a chance. You know, he says he's been in the Senate before. He knows Mitch McConnell. He's got relationships with some of these Republican senators. He says privately when he talks to those Republican senators that they want to work with him, that there are areas of compromise.

You know, we haven't seen that type of bipartisan compromise happen in Washington in quite a long time. Biden is, in a lot of ways, you know, staking his presidency on his ability to bring some kind of compromise to Capitol Hill. But I think we're going to know pretty quickly. He's got a big financial pandemic rescue package that he's put forth before lawmakers.

[06:45:04]

He's got an immigration package that he's put up there already. So I think we'll know fairly soon, you know, how realistic some of what he's talking about in terms of bipartisan cooperation is going to really be.

BERMAN: Yes, you know, I think one of the most interesting dynamics that we haven't focused on that much yet is the impatience among progressives in the Senate about this, about how far they're willing to go to work with Republicans.

Jeff Merkley, senator from Oregon was on our show yesterday, and we put up the picture of the 16 senator who are going to meet with Brian Deese over the weekend to try to hammer out some greet on the $1.9 trillion in the relief package. And the first thing Merkley said is, there's no progressives here. That's all centrists. And I'm not sure I like the idea that this new White House is going to say, hey, we're just going to work with the middle.

PACE: I think that's a really important point. I mean Biden is very focused on the middle. But the reality is that the Democratic Party is quite divided. And he does need to take care of liberals and progressives. There was something of a truce during the general election where liberals, you know, Biden was not their first choice and liberals said, look, you're certainly better for us than Donald Trump, so we're not going to keep taking shots at you throughout this general election. You know, that's going to change if they feel that their agenda is

getting left on the sidelines, if they feel like Biden isn't going far enough. He is going to hear from them. So, yes, he does need to focus on the middle because that's how he's going to pull some Republicans over into his corner, but that doesn't do him a lot of good if he loses Democrats on the other end of the spectrum.

CAMEROTA: Let's talk about the Senate impeachment trial of president, former President Donald Trump. Is there some Republican erosion in terms of whatever they felt during the insurrection or right after the insurrection? Are some of their -- is some of their outrage cooling on this?

PACE: Well, this is one of the risks for Democrats in having this trial pushed back. We're now talking about potentially mid-February before this starts. And in the immediate aftermath, certainly among Senate Republicans, there was significant outrage about the president's role in this and a real feeling like it was time to move on from him. Not from all Republican senators, but certainly for many and for Mitch McConnell. And you do wonder, as time goes by, do the memories of that moment fade? It's kind of incredible to say that given what a jarring moment that was for the country, but there is political reality at play and you do start to just feel, ever so slightly, that among some of these Republican senators, the dynamic could be shifting.

BERMAN: Julie Pace, great to have you on. Thanks so much for being here.

PACE: Thank you.

BERMAN: We're going to hear President Biden's economic plan today as millions of Americans are out of work.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I can't even go to food banks because I have no car. Every time I go looking for a job, I have to walk so many miles.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: A look at how the pandemic has affected transport workers, next.

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[06:52:00]

CAMEROTA: President Biden unveiling his economic relief plan today as thousands of workers continue to struggle to make ends meet.

CNN's Vanessa Yurkevich joins us now.

Vanessa.

VANESSA YURKEVICH, CNN BUSINESS AND POLITICS CORRESPONDENT: Alisyn, and these executive orders that President Biden is expected to sign later today will help improve federal jobs and contracting jobs, will help get food into the hands of insecure -- food-insecure Americans, and will get stimulus checks to those Americans who maybe have missed out in the past. This is incredibly important for workers in industries that simply have not recovered, like the transportation industry. And it is especially dire for these low-wage transportation workers who are having a very tough time right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH (voice over): Joseph Palma lost hope in this pandemic. He says he often goes a day or two without food.

JOSEPH PALMA, UNEMPLOYED AIRLINE WORKER: It's not right. It's not great. I have to survive. I have to eat something.

YURKEVICH: Palma, a contractor for American Airlines, was laid off in March. He survives off $275 a week in unemployment and food stamps. He lost his apartment and now lives in this one room. Trips to the grocery store take him to the expired food aisle.

PALMA: That's the only way I can eat because it's cheaper. It's almost half the price and sometimes more than that. And I keep it for the longest I can keep it so I can wait for my next check for food stamps.

YURKEVICH: He's one of more than 120,000 airline workers out of a job since February. When Americans stopped traveling, the transportation industry took a blow and is yet to recover. Between air, rail, and ground transport, more than a quarter million jobs have been lost.

PALMA: This is all my medicines (INAUDIBLE).

YURKEVICH: Nearly $300 worth of prescriptions sit by his bedside. A heart condition left Palma with $12,000 in hospital bills. With student loans, he's $20,000 in debt. He says all of that makes it even harder to find food and work.

PALMA: I can't even go to the food banks because I have no car. Every time I go looking for a job, I have to walk so many miles.

YURKEVICH: For 21 years, Gerson Fernandes has driven a yellow cab.

YURKEVICH (on camera): What's it like driving a cab -- being a cab driver in the pandemic?

GERSON FERNANDES, NYC TAXI DRIVER: It's like you have to keep driving and hope for the best.

YURKEVICH (voice over): Yellow cabs are an iconic part of New York City. At the height of the pandemic, ridership was down 90 percent for taxis, 85 percent for ride share apps. Recovery has been slow.

FERNANDES: Everybody's hurting, but I'm talking for cabs and for us --

YURKEVICH: (on camera): Yes. FERNANDES: We are hurting a lot.

YURKEVICH (voice over): Fernandes says he's lucky if he picks up four to five customers a day. He spends his eight-hour shift waiting for passengers at LaGuardia Airport.

YURKEVICH (on camera): What does that mean? I mean you have a beautiful home. What does that mean when you lose that much?

FERNANDES: When you say beautiful home --

YURKEVICH: Why?

FERNANDES: Beautiful at that time.

[06:55:00]

No longer now. Like, meaning to say, it was beautiful in those days because afford to buy a home and pay the mortgages or pay all the money. But now it's so bad that, like, difficult (ph) to pay.

YURKEVICH (voice over): His biggest expense, the lease on his taxi medallion. He cannot afford the $3,000 a month.

FERNANDES: I try my best, but, like, how much can you try? How far can you go? What can you do? Very limited resources.

YURKEVICH: It's the kindness of strangers that have helped fill his pockets and lift his spirits.

FERNANDES: So many people are tipping. In fact, people tell me, like, they give me $5 and even $10. I say, it's too much. They say, because this time everybody is hurting and you are working.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

YURKEVICH: Now, just yesterday we heard from President Biden's secretary of transportation nominee, Pete Buttigieg, who said one of his main goals is going to try to be bringing jobs back to the transportation industry. But as we know, Alisyn, this pandemic is so unpredictable it's going to be a long road ahead for the Biden administration and Americans like Joseph Palma and Gerson Fernandes.

Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: That was heartbreaking to hear his raw emotion as he tries to go through all of this.

Vanessa, thank you very much for that story.

Dr. Anthony Fauci making a lot of news with John here on NEW DAY, so we'll bring you his thoughts on the new variants and the vaccines.

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