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CNN TONIGHT

Only Five GOP Voted To Impeach Donald Trump; Senator Rand Paul Ignoring Facts; Trump Enablers Begging Democrats To Leave Him Alone; Two Hundred Million More Vaccines Coming; Executive Order Signed Addressing Biases; Donald Trump Has GOP's Back; Sen. Cory Booker (D- NJ) Is Interviewed About His Take On His GOP Colleagues Who Voted To Abstain Former President Trump; Three Hundred Million Shots Are Attainable. Aired 10-11p ET

Aired January 26, 2021 - 22:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[22:00:00]

CHRIS CUOMO, CNN HOST (on camera): I want to bring in the big show "CNN TONIGHT" with D. Lemon, its big star right now. Carolina said to me you are too negative and you always tell me what you think is wrong, but you never asked me what I think is wrong.

DON LEMON, CNN HOST: I love her.

CUOMO: I thought -- I thought, you know what, she's right first of all about me as a lousy parent.

LEMON: You're not a lousy parent.

CUOMO: Guilty, but as people let other people tell you how they feel and what hurts and just listen. It can hurt you to listen, great instruction from that kid.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: Here's another present for her birthday.

LEMON: I owe her 50 bucks.

CUOMO: That's chump change to that kid. That's chump change.

LEMON: I told her. Well, that's a good start. So then what do you -- what we both think is wrong, that video you showed of the president being asked about --

(CROSSTALK)

CUOMO: The former president.

LEMON: The former president being asked about systemic racism and he saying no there isn't, and everyone looking like what? But no one said anything and that's the problem, don't you think? Yes, over there, didn't hear it. Look at the time. Am I'm wrong?

CUOMO: No, you are right, but they were wrong. And you have to speak out. I know it's scary when somebody is powerful. I know you want the job. I know there's a lot of shine on it. It's just not worth it if at the end of the day you wind up becoming part of a stain on our society.

LEMON: It's not just a job, Chris. It's in friendship, it's in the workplace. It's in maybe someone's not your friend. It's in the line at the bank. It's in at the supermarket. It's wherever you are. If someone says something that's racist or sexist or misogynistic or whatever xenophobic whatever it is, anti-Semitic. Then it's up to all of us to say hey, stop, don't do that.

And not to coddle people and say why would you do that and I don't understand, no. You know what coddling people and not confronting them you know what that got us? That got us an authoritarian figure elected as president.

You know what else that got us? An insurrection, a racist insurrection on the capitol. You know where else that got us? It got us our lawmakers in Washington trying to make excuses for that because of what? Coddling. Because people did not stand up for what's right.

And so, whether this goes anywhere, and I think it will, there is a lot for the new president to put on the table even if it's just an executive order. Remember, I think the black president did not even do that, for him to do that, he's got to follow up on it, he's got to make good on it or that's going to look really bad over the course of history, and over the course of his presidency.

CUOMO: Because he doesn't have ignorance as an excuse --

LEMON: Right.

CUOMO: -- and his agenda is supposed to be the opposite --

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: -- of what we just lived through. Systemic inequality is real, great, do something about it.

LEMON: Call it out when you see it, stop! Why did you do it? And then wait for their answer.

CUOMO: See something, say something.

LEMON: And if they don't have an answer, then you know something right?

CUOMO: Well, look, and when people -- and you're great at this by the way, in your personal life.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: When somebody doesn't know why they're wrong, you are very good at giving people a break in helping them understand --

LEMON: Why you're wrong. CUOMO: -- what it is that they're not paying attention to.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: You don't have to judge, you have to hurt, you don't have to stick it in faith, --

LEMON: It's not judge.

CUOMO: -- you can do it in a way that will encourage people to want to be better. We can do that, we do it all the time.

LEMON: Here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I want us to do it, if you will, I'm not telling you how to live but this is how I'm going to live. I'm tired of saying the conversations about race or any sort of- ism that they're hard, these are tough -- these are not tough conversations.

As a matter of fact, these are easy conversations to have especially with the moment, especially with the four years we've gone through and then again what happened just a couple weeks ago.

These are easy conversations to have, the only way that they're hard is if you don't want to have them, or you want to make excuses for them. That's how they're hard, but if you're willing to open yourself up and to have the conversation, it is not hard.

CUOMO: True.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: And to the extent that it takes effort there is some discomfort.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: What in life that's worthwhile does that not apply to?

LEMON: I mean, look, every night, every night my pain the cross I have to bear is having to talk to you. So, I know there are some discomfort there.

CUOMO: I feel for you. I feel for you. I do.

LEMON: I love you.

CUOMO: There before the grace, D. Lemon. There before the grace.

LEMON: I'll see you later.

CUOMO: I love you, D. Lemon.

LEMON: More than you know. Thank you, brother. I'll see you soon.

This is CNN TONIGHT. I'm Don Lemon. There -- sorry, I got to take a breath now. It's so good to see you. I hope you're happy to be here. There is a lot going on tonight, there's major news on the impeachment trial, less than two weeks away that trial.

President Biden making a big announcement on vaccines to fight the pandemic that has killed more than 425,000 Americans. That's a lot of people.

And I want to begin with what happened in the Senate today, OK, it's really important. Senators sworn in as jurors in the impeachment trial and immediately facing a challenge from a top Trump ally. Sort of what we were just talking about, right?

[22:05:01]

The Senate voting down Rand Paul's effort to declare impeachment unconstitutional, but only five Republicans, Mitt Romney, Ben Sasse, Susan Collins, Lisa Murkowski, Pat Toomey voted with the Democrats. That means 45 Republicans have voted against holding the impeachment trial, 45 Republicans reconfirming their commitment to preserve and protect the former president personally rather than what is the oath and their sworn duty to the Constitution and to the facts. Rand Paul saying this today.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Impeachment is for removal from office. And the accused here has already left office. Hyper partisan Democrats are about to drag our great country down into the gutter of ranker and vitriol, the likes of which has never been seen in our nation's history.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Rand Paul, what are you talking about? Rand Paul, look at the video, Rand Paul. The gutter of ranker and vitriol? The likes of which we've never seen in our nation's history? That is exactly what the former president brought us, brought us to when he incited the mob that stormed the U.S. Capitol.

Do your job, Rand Paul. Do your job. Someone send him -- show him these videos. Are you kidding me? But today's vote in the Senate shows just how difficult it's going to be to grapple with the big lie and break the hold on the former -- the former president has on the GOP.

What more do those Republicans need to hear? What more? I don't -- I don't get it -- I know you're having a hard time getting it. I don't either. Perhaps it is just straight up politics. Maybe -- who knows what's going on. I don't know. But what could possibly be worse than what we all saw and heard when rioters incited by the President of the United States attacked the capitol?

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence! Hang Mike Pence!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): Hang Mike Pence. OK. Maybe Rand Paul didn't hear that. Rand Paul, they said, hang Mike Pence. They can't pretend they don't know exactly what happened. They were there.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNKNOWN: Tell Pelosi we're coming for that (muted)

UNKNOWN: No.

UNKNOWN: Tell (muted) Pelosi we're coming for her.

UNKNOWN: No, I'm not --

UNKNOWN: Traitor (muted). We're coming for her.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I don't need to repeat what was on your screen. You saw it. Not kind language. Did you see that, Rand Paul? They know what the president said. They know the violence that followed that put every one of them in danger. And as much as they might want to sweep it under the rug, they may not be able to.

Sources telling CNN impeachment managers want to use videos and social media from the day of the attack showing just how then president's -- then president's words and actions motivated rioters to storm the capitol.

That is going to be hard for Republicans to ignore evidence like this, evidence that we first showed you -- we showed you here last night. This video, it's from the national security form Just Security juxtaposing then president's -- the then-president's own words at the rally on January 6th with what people in the crowd posted on Facebook and Parler. Here it is.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Now it is up to Congress to confront this egregious assault on our democracy. And after this we're going to walk down -- and I'll be there with you. We're going to walk down --

(CROWD CHEERING)

TRUMP: We're going to walk down any one you want, but I think right here. We're going to walk down to the capitol.

UNKNOWN: Yes!

TRUMP: We're going to walk down to the capitol.

UNKNOWN: Yes. (CROWD CHEERING)

UNKNOWN: Yes.

UNKNOWN: Invade the capitol building.

UNKNOWN: Take the capitol!

UNKNOWN: Take the capitol!

UNKNOWN: Take the capitol right now!

UNKNOWN: Take the capitol!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

[22:10:02]

LEMON (on camera): Hi, Rand Paul. Take the capitol. CNN has not independently verified the video and impeachment managers haven't decided yet exactly how they're going to use it. But, you know, like I said, what could possibly be worse than what we already know, what we've already seen?

Yet even after all this, 45 Republican senators still don't want to hold the former president accountable, voting against even having a trial. And their argument that you can't impeach a former president would basically mean a president could do anything at all at the end of his term, like say, shoot someone in the middle of Fifth Avenue and get away with it. Or incite a riot at the capitol and get away with it. But enablers are going to enable.

Nikki Haley's plea, give the guy a break.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

NIKKI HALEY, FORMER U.S. AMBASSADOR TO THE UNITED NATIONS: I don't even think there's a basis for impeachment. I mean, the idea that they're even bringing this up, they didn't have a hearing in the House. Now they're going to turn around and bring about impeachment yet they say they're for unity.

I mean, they beat him up before he got into office, they're beating him up after he leaves office. I mean, at some point, I mean, give the man a break. I mean, move on. If you truly are about moving on, move on. The idea they're going to do impeachment, that's not going to bring our country together. That's only dividing our country.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): The moving on part is something that -- those are her words. I'm not hearing anybody saying they want to move on except for Republican enablers. That's who's saying they want to move on.

Bring the country together? What about not voting to overturn the will of millions of Americans? What about questioning the votes of African- Americans strongholds in this country? What about unity for that? What happened to that unity? What happened to unity for -- where was that energy for very fine people on both sides? For enemy of the people? For grab them by the p?

Where was that call for unity and kumbaya when this -- the former president was spewing hatred into the public, inciting a riot? Where was that call for unity then? But now you want to unify, Nikki Haley? What happened to you? What? Is it worth it to thwart ambition to do what you're doing? Presidential ambition probably.

And Marco Rubio. Marco Rubio who just last summer accused Democrats of cowering from what he called the terror of the mob in the wake of protest now wants to knuckle under to domestic terror.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL): I think the trial is stupid. I think it's counterproductive. We already have a flaming fire in this country and it's like taking a bunch of gasoline and pouring it on top of the fire.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): OK. Whatever thing you're taking for loss of memory, I'll have what they're having. Remember that I'll have what she's -- I'll have what they're having. That must be nice to live that way. And you don't have to -- no repercussions, no guilt, no accountability. You just move on to the next thing because of ambition, because you want to hang on to power.

And the big lie that started it all, the then-president's desperate attempts to steal the election, the big lie is still out there. Oregon Republican Party putting out a stunningly false proclamation claiming -- and I quote here -- "there is growing evidence that the violence at the capitol was a false flag operation designed to discredit President Trump."

By his own supporters? That makes -- that makes sense, yes. That is a lie. And that's all the former president's defenders have left, lies. And people who are on the side of the big lie are showing up on state TV -- I mean Fox News. Exhibit a, Maria Bartiromo and her false flag disinformation without a shred of evidence because there isn't any. It is a lie.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

[22:15:07]

MARIA BARTIROMO, ANCHOR, FOX NEWS: Security in the nation's capital is at an unprecedented level this morning ahead of the inauguration tomorrow. A new report says that some far-right protesters have discussed posing as members of the National Guard to infiltrate the inauguration the way Democrats infiltrated two weeks ago and put on MAGA clothing.

(END VIDEO CLIP) LEMON (on camera): I will not have what she's having. Like I said,

people on the side of the big lie, this just shows you how big the challenge is, how big it is for the Biden administration trying to restore any semblance of order or, you know, reality, anything based in reality, anything fact based.

So, there's Rand Paul in the Senate today not only trying to declare the impeachment trial unconstitutional, but refusing to wear a mask while on the Senate floor. And he's a doctor. And he's ignoring the science. He's ignoring the facts that masks are the best weapon that we have right now against the virus.

Dr. Jonathan Reiner tweeting, the senator is, quote, "an embarrassment to the Senate and to medicine." Well, all of that was going on in the Senate, what we heard from the President of the United States today was something we haven't heard from for a very long time from the White House, and that is a fact-based based, science-based plan to take on the pandemic, the pandemic the former president routinely ignored, even as more Americans died. Died. Hundreds of thousands of them.

President Biden today announcing the purchase of 200 million more vaccine doses, enough to get shots in the arms of every adult American -- every adult in America by the end of the summer. We also heard something else from the president today that we haven't heard from this White House in a long time -- from the White House in a long time, not this particular administration. President Biden signing a series of executive actions on racial equity and saying this.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I ran for president because I believe we're in a battle for the soul of this nation. And the simple truth is, our soul will be troubled as long as systemic racism is allowed to persist. We can eliminate it but it's not going to be overnight.

We must change, and I know it's going to take time, but I know we can do it. And I firmly believe the nation is ready to change. But government has to change as well. We need to make equity and justice part of what we do every day. Today, tomorrow and every day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): How did that hit your ears? Did you go, it's about time? Or did you say, God, here we go, that again? If it was the latter, you're the problem. Because after four years of racial division, Charlottesville, shit hole countries, George Floyd, Breonna Taylor, Ahmaud Arbery, so many other -- those are the striking examples.

The embrace of confederate statues and symbols, a rise in hate crimes and domestic terror, how about a capitol insurrection to overturn the government with white supremacists and neo-Nazis galvanized by our very leader, the president leading the way? Finally -- finally -- racial issues are a priority, not a political

tool to use to bash America into submission. We have got a long, long way to go to undo hundreds of years of racism in this country. And four years, five maybe, of legitimizing and prioritizing the wrong types of action and elements in this society, racists, white supremacists, anti-Semites, prioritizing ignorance, racism that is not hiding, still painfully on display.

[22:19:54]

By the way, did you know that is actually not the confederate flag. That's the battle flag. That's not the original one from the confederacy. Know your history. And then perhaps you won't act on ignorance. And there won't be insurrections.

This president saying the right thing today. But now it is time to put those words into action. The impeachment trial, the president's orders on racial equity. Lots to talk about with this man. Senator Cory Booker, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, saying, it's time to act, President Joe Biden sign executive orders today trying to heal deep racial inequities in America and systemic racism that has plague this country for far too long.

That is a big topic and just one of the things that I want to discuss now with Democratic Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey. Senator, it's always a pleasure to have you on, especially in these very busy times. Thank you so much.

I've got to start with Trump's second impeachment trial. He incited insurrection on the capitol to keep himself in power. Five people and still, you know, only five -- five people dead and still -- and only five Republicans voted to hold the trial. What does that tell you, Senator?

[22:24:55]

SEN. CORY BOOKER (D-NJ): Look, if this is not an impeachable offense, I don't know what is. Here is a president that before the election was even over, he started whipping up a lie that if he lost it was rigged. He kept pushing it and pushing it.

Did his attorney general agree with him? No. Did his election officials, Republican election officials around the country agree with him? No. Did he show any shred of evidence? No. Did he get kicked out of dozens and dozens of courts? Yes.

I mean, and then he whipped it up to a fervor to the point where on the day that we were supposed to do the process, the constitutional process of accepting the electorates from the states he whips up a crowd and sends them to the capitol.

This is something that there should -- he should be held to account. As you said, people died. But more than that, it is the second siege in American history to our capitol. The first was done by the British in the war of 1812. This other one, of people trying to take the seat of power, was done at his behest. I think he should be held accountable, and I'm sorry that more of my colleagues in the Republican Party could not see that.

LEMON: And help me, if we can, please rerun the video when the senator was speaking, because I think that video is very powerful and people should be reminded of what's at stake here and what happened, senator.

So, look at your screen. Look at this. So, if you don't think that that's a problem, then I have no words. The president signed executive orders on housing discrimination, fighting bigotry against Asian- Americans, on ending private prisons, on strengthening their relationship with Native American tribes. What sort of concrete results will Americans see from this do you think?

BOOKER: A lot. First of all, you've got to give it to Joe Biden. It wasn't just the four executive orders or areas today. From the very beginning he started rolling back really toxic things that Donald Trump had done, like banning training for people on inclusiveness and implicit racial bias, something he's done from corporations to big city police chiefs.

He started enacting sort of plans to undermine one of the great pillars of the civil rights movement, which was the Fair Housing Act. So here comes Biden in and says all of government, we need to get this country together. And by doing that means starting to focus on equity, attacking systematic -- systematic racism.

Because as Susan Rice said today -- and this is what Americans have to understand. You know, and King said so eloquently. Racism doesn't just hurt black people. It hurts our nation, it's a cancer on our soul.

Susan Rice put it to figures, which everybody from McKinsey to academic settings have shown that if we just heal the racial wealth gap, heal the gap in home ownership, we will actually add trillions of dollars to our economy over five years. That's how much we will grow.

We're a nation that's always shown when you give equal access and inclusion. Look at the hidden figures being brought to the table with NASA astronauts. We literally defy gravity and then we've got to solve these problems for all of America.

So, his concrete actions today from beginning to phase out private prisons, to focusing on discrimination against Asian-Americans, to talking about housing policy from the damages of mortgage discrimination to red lining. All of these things are the beginning steps of an administration not committed in words but showing real actions towards equity and inclusion, and frankly racial justice.

LEMON (on camera): So, I've got to ask you about -- let's talk about what the current president said about George Floyd, and then we'll talk about it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) BIDEN: Those eight minutes and 46 seconds that took George Floyd's life opened the eyes of millions of Americans and millions of people around all over the world. It was the knee on the neck of justice and it wouldn't be forgotten. It stirred the conscience of tens of millions of Americans. And in my view, it marked a turning point in this country's attitude toward racial justice.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

LEMON (on camera): I think it would -- I think that was a wakeup call for a lot of people. George Floyd's death opened a lot of eyes, Senator. I'm curious if you think the images of white supremacist and anti-Semitic people storming the capitol with the confederate flag in the hall of Congress, if that had a similar impact?

BOOKER: I think it does. I remember pointing out hearing after hearing in past Congresses that since 9/11 the majority of the terrorist attacks in this country have been right wing extremists, majority of those are white supremacists. From a church in South Carolina to a synagogue in Pittsburgh, we are seeing the scourge of white supremacy and white supremacist attacks grow in our country.

[22:29:55]

And so, to have one president who denies it is even a problem, who says there are good people in Charlottesville, where someone was murdered, to now have a president that says wait a minute, the biggest threat of terrorism in our country is the scourge of white supremacy. We are going to prioritize it. We are going to put together a strategy to combat it and we are going to create a safer America as a result. This is a good, good day.

LEMON: Senator Cory Booker, always a pleasure. Thank you, sir.

BOOKER: I appreciate you, man. I appreciate your commitment to these issues and your outrage about what you saw on the floor today, which from not wearing a mask to people still trying to push the big lie or try to just sort of wash the stain of what happened in our capitol away without healing or addressing it. I just appreciate you still focusing on these issues. There are going to be some tough days to come ahead.

LEMON: Well, I appreciate you saying that. Let me just say this. This is the -- this is what goes through my mind every night and the priorities when I'm putting this show together is actually not to be partisan but just to tell the truth.

This is beyond partisanship of traditional left versus right. This is about truth and lies. This is about health and the wellbeing of the country. We know we should be wearing masks, yet you have lawmakers on the floor of the Senate not wearing masks.

We know that we should respect the Constitution and the will of the people, yet you have lawmakers who are voting against a free and fair election. This should be about the truth of what happened at the capitol, yet you have lawmakers still voting so that there is no accountability for people trying to overtake the republic and your democracy.

That's not about partisanship. That's about journalism and telling the truth. So, everything that I say here is based in fact and truth. Others may want to spin it into partisanship. I'm not a liberal. I'm not a conservative. I'm a journalist and American who's simply telling the truth. And the fact that you recognize that means the world to me. Thank you so much. I appreciate it.

BOOKER: Amen.

LEMON: Thank you.

BOOKER: Thank you.

LEMON: Only five Senate Republicans voting with Democrats agreeing that the former president's second trial is constitutional. I have a lot of conversations with this guy, the same topic, we're going to talk about that. Ohio Governor John Kasich. But there is a question I think I should stop asking him, right? So, I will let you know what that is. And that is next.

[22:35:00]

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

LEMON (on camera): So, the Senate rejecting an effort by Republican Rand Paul to declare the impeachment of the former president unconstitutional, only five GOP senators voted with Democrats to uphold the trial. Five. And a reminder, only 10 GOP House members voted to impeach the now former president. The GOP is still in a grip of Trump, even with him out of office. So, now what, right?

Joining me now, former Ohio Governor and CNN senior commentator John Kasich. Hey, John. Good to see you. How you doing?

JOHN KASICH, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I'm doing, doing well. I talked to one of those 10 today from the House who voted and talked to them and encouraged them. And he said he's very comfortable with his vote. There would be nothing that would change him. And I was really proud of him, that he felt that he stood up for his country.

And he did say one thing. He said I'm worried about how I can help fix the Republican Party. I said, you know what, that's fine. But why don't you think about being an American before you're a Republican. Let's get the country fixed. So, I think he kind of liked that.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: It was a good call.

LEMON: He liked that. I'll tell you what my sister says. Closed ears don't get healed. So, that's a good saying. People have their ears closed, their minds closed and their eyes closed.

So, on that subject here's a question that I'm going to ask -- I'm going to stop asking you, which I said before the break. I always ask you what it would take for the Republican Party to break from Trump. Right? And it's pretty clear after today's vote that if a murderous insurrection isn't enough, then nothing will be, right? So, the new question is, John, where does this road lead for the Trump party?

KASICH: I think it leads to a dead end, Don. And, you know, look, Republicans are kind of thinking they did well, you know, in the state and local elections. They did. But you know why they did well is they ran a campaign saying Democrats wanted to defund police, that they're socialist and that, you know, they're going to just completely wreck the economy.

Now that we elected Joe Biden -- and I think pretty well he's getting pretty good grades from people who are not just in the political bubble but people around they're saying they like his tone. They like the way he's approaching things.

Now if Republicans think that in the long haul, Don, that all they can do is try to use scare tactics to win votes, that will wear itself out and that will fail. And if the party doesn't begin to address issues in the 21st century in the future, in healthcare, the wealth gap, community and police, the debt, what we do, you know, these are the things -- these things have to be talked about. And right now, Don, they're not doing it. And I think it's hard for them.

And in terms of Trump -- I mean, I just was reading this thing about this Oregon Republican Party. They said there's growing -- this is a resolution they passed.

LEMON: Yes.

CUOMO: There's growing evidence that the violence at the capitol was a --

LEMON: False flag.

KASICH: -- false flag operation designed -- and then it goes on to say this provided the sham motivation to impeach President Trump in order to advance the Democratic goal of seizing total power, in a frightening parallel to the burning of the German Reich Act.

This is a Republican Party of Oregon. Honestly, Don, what we have to ask ourselves are, who's redeemable? Who can we bring over to say look, this is -- this is just wrong. This never happened this way. And we've got to figure out how to talk to some of those people and reach them, Don, and get them back.

LEMON: OK, all right, all right.

KASICH: Back to reality.

LEMON: For a moment there I thought I was watching a repeat of like, one of my shows from a while back.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Well, I mean, what else can I say? LEMON: OK, let me ask you this. I understand what you're saying, but

how do you -- how do you reason with unreasonable people, John? I think it's impossible. I think that is a --

KASICH: I think --

LEMON: Let me finish my point. I think that's like asking --

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: Go ahead, go ahead, go ahead, go ahead.

LEMON: That's like asking the oppressed to fix a problem that is -- has been created by the oppressor. I think that's like asking women to fix a problem of sexism.

[22:40:05]

So, I think asking sane people to try to reason with people who are not living in reality is quite a tall order, and I'm not quite sure if it's fair because no matter how many times you tell them the election wasn't rigged, no matter how many courts you send it to with Republican judges, with Republican electors, they still won't believe it.

No matter how many times you show them the video of Trump supporters and people -- hundreds --

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: -- what -- 150 or so or close to it -- who have been arrested from the capitol and then for them, the Oregon state legislature to say that it was a false flag?

KASICH: Yes.

LEMON: That is not living in reality. So, why would you even want to reason with those people?

KASICH: Yes, let me respond to this. First of all, there are people that have -- that left Donald Trump on January 6th, and they're never going back. Secondly, the Republican Party has got to be careful because they're shrinking. They are a shrinking party in this country.

And in addition to that, Don, not all the people who supported Trump were traditional Republicans. There were a lot of people who were -- you know, there were Democrats. There were independents who thought he was their guy because he was -- frankly what he was, was, he was demagoguing and telling people you have a problem because somebody else caused it. And those people got all fired up.

I'm not telling you we're going to get them all back, Don. But, look, for the good of our country, right, for the good of our culture, for the good of our society, we have to -- we have to hear the ones who have concerns and we've got to respond to them. And those who are out there, we can't lose our temper, Don. We can't shut them off. Some of them are gone. OK. I agree with you on that. But not all of them are gone.

And some of them I think we can pull back by showing them facts. Because I've seen it happen with my own eyes. But there are people out there for some reason who are really responding to conspiracy theories. And I'm as frustrated as you are, man.

I mean, think about what I've been doing for the last five years. Think of all the people that have been criticizing -- I'm not -- I can take it. It's not bothering me. Really, it isn't. But I've taken heat too. If I lose my patience, if I lose my patience, I lose them. Some of them are redeemable. I can tell you that they are and you know that some of them are, don't you? You've met them who have gone up to you and said, well, Lemon, all this time you've been right.

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I understand that. This is -- this is -- this is not a question of redeeming people. It's not my job to judge people or redeem them.

KASICH: I'm talking about bringing them back. Pull them away from these crazy theories at here.

LEMON: I don't know if that's possible.

(CROSSTALK)

KASICH: And it would help if the Senate --

LEMON: I don't know if they -- I don't know if they want to.

KASICH: It would --

LEMON: I don't believe that they want to. I think they like living in the world that they're living in and so be it. Let them live in that world. And so, I think that the people who are on the same side should galvanize together and keep living in reality. And then if they want -- if they choose to come over, fine. If not, enjoy yourselves in living in your fantasy land. That's --

KASICH: And let me also tell you, Don, the party has got Donald Trump has an albatross around their necks. You can see it in the Senate. You saw what happened in the House.

LEMON: Yes.

KASICH: How these people --

(CROSSTALK)

LEMON: I've got to go.

KASICH: -- would not move forward in the House is stunning. OK. But at the end of the day we need voices to stand up in the party and people who put America first, to stand up and tell people we've got to get together as a country. I think Biden is trying.

LEMON: OK. Well, good luck. I hope he has success with that and you too. I'm tired.

KASICH: Thanks, Don.

LEMON: Thank you.

KASICH: So am I.

LEMON: We'll be right back.

KASICH: All right. See you.

[22:45:00]

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LEMON (on camera): President Biden announcing the U.S. is buying another 200 million vaccine doses, 100 million more from Moderna and 100 million more from Pfizer. Biden says that the additional doses mean 300 million Americans, or nearly every adult in the country will be vaccinated by the end of the summer.

Let's discuss now. Dr. Ashish Jha is the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health and he joins us now. Doctor, how are you? Good to see you. Can you hear me? Dr. Jha? No Dr. Jha? All right. We'll try to reconnect. Shall we go to a break? Let's take a break. We'll take a break. We'll try to get Dr. Jha and then we'll be right back. Don't go anywhere.

[22:50:00]

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LEMON (on camera): OK, so let's talk about those vaccine doses. There he is, now, Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health. Good evening, sir. You can hear me this time, yes?

ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: I can, yes.

LEMON: Yes.

JHA: Sorry, I lost you.

LEMON: No, that's OK. That happens. It happens.

So, listen, the president says with these additional doses that I mentioned just before we went to break, 300 million Americans will be vaccinated by the end of summer. Do you think it's possible?

JHA: I do. I do. Look, I think, you know, the problem is that the Biden administration picked up a set of vaccine plans that were heavy on promise and low on delivery from the Trump team. What they are doing now and what we're hearing from the manufacturers I think absolutely gives me confidence we'll be able to have 300 million doses by the end of the summer. It's not going to be totally straightforward and easy, but I think it is doable. LEMON: Is that soon enough, though, doctor, with all these new

variants that we're seeing? Aren't we in a race against time?

JHA: Absolutely. So, look, if we were doing 300 million people in the spring and summer, but none now, we would have a problem. But I think right now we got to be doing as much as possible. I'd like to see us do as much as two million a day. I think that is possible. That's probably on the stretch end of what's possible.

President Joe Biden yesterday said 1.5 million a day. These are all ambitious goals. We've got to try to hit them because, as you said, Don, we're in a race against a variant. We got to get a lot of people vaccinated before the variant really takes off.

LEMON: President Joe Biden's coronavirus coordinator is telling governors that vaccine allocations for states will increase by about 16 percent starting next week and they'll have a three-week notice of what is coming. What kind of a difference will this make?

JHA: Yes, you know, that three-week notice may not seem like a big deal. To me, that's the big deal here. I've been talking to states all along for the past month. They're really frustrated at how little time they get.

Basically, they get told often five days before you're getting this many doses and they have to scramble and figure out how to get those doses out to people. Three weeks advance notice is going to make an enormous difference in terms of state planning, and obviously 16 percent of more doses is a good thing as well. I don't mean to discount that, but that extra time is going to help in terms of distribution of these vaccines.

[22:55:07]

LEMON: Pfizer announcing today that it's laying the groundwork to create a vaccine booster that can respond to coronavirus variants. Do you think this is something that we are all ultimately going to need and is that a third shot that you would get? How does this work?

JHA: Yes, it's a very good question. So first of all, I'm hoping we won't. Right? I'm hoping -- and based on the data we have, I think the vaccines we have right now will work against all the variants including the South Africa variant. But this is really an insurance policy. And it says that imagine that we get other variants or the South Africa variant ends up not being fully susceptible to the vaccine. Then we can potentially get a booster.

Yes, it may end up being a third shot. Again, we don't know. We're learning about this and I'm hoping we may never need it.

LEMON: The CDC is out with new research today. It's showing that schools aren't contribute to a significant increase in community spread of coronavirus is, schools are safe with masks and social distancing? Is there any reason why students shouldn't be learning in- person right now? JHA: Well, you know that in-person learning is so incredibly

important, and the fact that we've had remote learning in so much of the country for a year had really negative effects on kids, particularly kids from poorer backgrounds, for working women. We got to figure out how to get kids back in.

What the CDC study says is not just, hey, open up the schools and don't worry about it. It's, do the things that we know make a difference. Right. Get kids and adults to wear masks, make sure the ventilation is decent, make sure you've got reasonable amount of distancing. If we can do those things, schools are safe to reopen. That's what the CDC data says. That's pretty much what all the data out there is saying.

LEMON: This is a CNN analysis of data -- speaking of data -- data from 14 states, found vaccine coverage is twice as high among white people on average than it is among black and Latino people. That is incredibly troubling. What can be done to turn this around?

JHA: Yes. Right. I mean, we've been -- we -- I sort of feel like we saw this coming and here it is. What we need to do, Don, very specifically, is we've got to make sure we are helping people who are people of color have much, much better access to vaccines than they do right now.

And that means if we're going to set up vaccination sites, for instance, make sure that a good number of them are in those communities. Make sure that we really do a good job of reaching out to communities and talking about vaccine hesitancy and addressing concerns people have.

If we just sort of let this thing run on its own, what's going to happen is the same disparities we've seen throughout the entire pandemic show up with vaccines again. We've got to do better. I think we can, but it's got to be deliberate. It's not going to happen naturally.

LEMON: Thank you, Ashish Jha, we really appreciate it.

JHA: Thank you, Don.

LEMON: All but five Republican senators voting to declare the former president's impeachment trial unconstitutional after he incited an insurrection at the capitol. Is the GOP in the race -- in a race for the bottom?

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