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New Day
Arizona Republicans Wrestle With Their Party's Future; CNN Reality Check: GOP Dismisses Biden Call For Unity After Disputing Election; Turning America's Racial Reckoning Into Action. Aired 7:30- 8a ET
Aired January 26, 2021 - 07:30 ET
THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:33:35]
JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: So this morning, serious challenges facing the Republican Party -- serious divisions. How serious? Well, the Arizona Republican Party has passed a resolution censuring Cindy McCain, former Sen. Jeff Flake, and the current governor Doug Ducey for not being loyal enough to the former President of the United States. And now, some Republicans in that state leaving the party.
CNN's Kyung Lah live in Scottsdale with a look at this remarkable schism.
KYUNG LAH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: It's a lot of people leaving the party if you are to look at the latest voter registration numbers from the Arizona Secretary of State, John. Those numbers showed 9,200 registered Republicans in this state have left the party -- switched to other parties. That has many establishment Republicans concerned, but the Arizona Republican Party seems unconcerned.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Keep Arizona red and make America great again.
LAH (voice-over): Donald Trump may have lost the 2020 election but he has not lost the Arizona Republican Party.
BARBARA WYLIE, MEMBER, ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PARTY: However Trump rolls is how the Republican Party is going to roll.
LAH (voice-over): This is the first gathering of the Arizona Republican Party this weekend since Trump's defeat.
REP. DEBBIE LESKO (R-AZ): Good morning, Arizona patriots.
LAH (voice-over): In just four years of Trump's MAGA messaging, voters in this once reliably Republican state voted to elect two Democratic senators and a Democratic president. But here, members punish their own for not being Trump enough.
[07:35:14] GOV. DOUG DUCEY (R), ARIZONA: Good afternoon, everyone.
LAH (voice-over): The AZ GOP censured Republican Gov. Doug Ducey; Cindy McCain, the widow of the late Sen. John McCain; and former Sen. Jeff Flake. Ducey's perceived Republican offense was enforcing emergency health orders as COVID cases spiked; Flake and McCain for not backing Trump.
LAH (on camera): Did you vote for John McCain?
WYLIE: I voted for John McCain.
LAH (voice-over): That was then, say these lifelong Arizona Republicans -- this is today.
LAH (on camera): Are you concerned about the censure of Cindy McCain?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
WYLIE: I'm sorry I voted for John McCain.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're here to increase the Republican Party by making it a MAGA party.
C.J. DIEGEL, FORMER REGISTERED REPUBLICAN: And I finally had to -- had to say no, I don't want to be associated with the Arizona Republican Party.
LAH (voice-over): That's it, says C.J. Diegel.
DIEGEL: That was a good show.
LAH (voice-over): The registered Republican and married father of two hoped that after this --
U.S. CAPITOL INSURRECTIONISTS: Treason! Treason! Treason!
LAH (voice-over): -- his party would move away from Donald Trump. They didn't.
DIEGEL: When you go down that path and that's how you gain your notoriety, when you abandon decency, it's hard to go back on.
LAH (voice-over): Diegel changed his party registration among the more than 9,000 Republicans who the Secretary of State says changed their affiliation since the insurrection at the Capitol.
DIEGEL: We've got a bankrupt party here in the state and it needs to be rebuilt.
LAH (voice-over): And remade away from the images of Arizonans arrested at the Capitol to winning statewide elections, says State Sen. T.J. Shope.
T.J. SHOPE (R), ARIZONA STATE SENATOR: I mean, obviously, I wear a different hat than the guy in the horns. But, you know, it's -- it is definitely time for a reset.
LAH (on camera): Is what the AZ GOP doing turning the page?
SHOPE: Absolutely not. Absolutely not. It's -- I have no idea what they're doing.
LAH (voice-over): But the state party seems intent to stay on the path forged by Trump, led by far-right chairwoman Kelli Ward --
KELLI WARD, CHAIRWOMAN, ARIZONA REPUBLICAN PARTY: We have to stop the steal.
LAH (voice-over): -- who played an audio message from Trump at the state party meeting --
DONALD TRUMP, THEN-PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I give my complete and total endorsement to Kelli Ward. Thank you very much.
LAH (voice-over): -- and was reelected.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
LAH: As far as the censures, Arizona's governor's office call it of no consequence. Cindy McCain tweeted that she'll wear hers as a badge of honor. And as far as Jeff Flake, he tweeted a picture of himself, Cindy McCain, and Gov. Ducey at Joe Biden's inauguration with the caption "good company" -- Alisyn.
ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Oh my gosh, Kyung, what a look into how complicated the feelings are there in Arizona. Thank you very much.
So, does former President Trump's stranglehold on the Republican Party go beyond Arizona? One man has the answer, CNN senior political writer and analyst, Harry Enten. Harry, great to see you.
HARRY ENTEN, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL WRITER AND ANALYST: Nice to see you, Alisyn.
CAMEROTA: OK, so does President Trump still have a big hold over the entire GOP?
ENTEN: I would argue absolutely yes, and the number-one sign is just ask them do they think that Joe Biden was legitimately elected the President of the United States. And overall, 65 percent of Americans say yes. But among Republicans, look at this -- 74 percent say no, there was fraud.
This is an easy litmus test to pass. We know there was no fraud. We know Joe Biden was legitimately elected.
Yet, three-quarters of Republicans nationwide said that no, he was not legitimately elected. It was only because of fraud. That is nuts, Alisyn. It's craziness.
CAMEROTA: How are they feeling about the Senate trial?
ENTEN: Yes. So I think this also gives you an idea that Donald Trump ain't going nowhere. Look at this.
Should Donald Trump be convicted? Just 11 percent of Republicans say yes. Should he be barred from running again? Just 19 percent of Republicans say yes.
This Republican Party is not a Republican Party that wants to move on from Donald Trump. They like Donald Trump. They want him to stay in the limelight. They do not believe his actions on January sixth and leading up to it warrant him being barred from running from office again.
You just look at the numbers over and over and over again and they just give you the very clear sign that Republicans like Donald Trump even if the overall public doesn't.
CAMEROTA: You know what's so funny? In Kyung's piece, we just heard the woman who said yes, I like Donald Trump because we're trying to grow the Republican Party and if it's the MAGA party, that we're trying to grow it.
But he lost the House, he lost the Senate, he lost the Georgia Senate race. He lost the presidency. Compared to other presidents past who have lost the presidency, how does he rank?
ENTEN: Yes, I think that this also gives you an understanding. Just look at the primary polls.
[07:40:00]
Look, we're still three years out from the primaries, right, but at this point, Donald Trump is in first place among Republican primary voters. And you look back over the last few times that someone lost the presidential race -- a president lost the presidential race, look at this. There's no other example of a president who was actually leading the primary field.
George H.W. Bush was in fourth place at this point for the '96 race. Jimmy Carter was in third place at this point for the 1984 race. Gerald Ford was in second place at this point for the 1980 race.
So Donald Trump has a stronger grip on the Republican Party than any past president after they'd lost their presidential election. I think that just gives you an indication of how unique and how different Donald Trump is with the Republicans this time around than past presidents were with the party base prior times around.
CAMEROTA: I've heard so many people, Republicans and Democrats alike, say it's much quieter without President Trump on Twitter and certainly without him in office. So do you have a sense for whether or not he is still super-relevant and super-on-the-minds of Americans?
ENTEN: So one way we can look at this is look at Google searches, right? This is just the first indication but I think it gives you an idea that at this point the relative share of Google searches January 20th to the 25th of an inauguration year, Donald Trump is still 48 percent of the searches among those who are searching for either Biden or Trump. That is huge.
All presidents -- past presidents when we had turned the page with a new inauguration -- look at that. Obama was just 18 percent of the relative searches in 2017. George W. Bush was just eight percent of the relative searches back in 2009.
So what we see right now is that Donald Trump is still on the minds of Americans.
CAMEROTA: Fascinating -- fascinating metrics that you just showed us. Harry, thank you very much.
ENTEN: Thank you.
CAMEROTA: Great to see you.
ENTEN: Bye.
CAMEROTA: Bye.
Is President Biden's call for unity secretly a call for division? Hmm? You might think so if you've been watching MAGA media since the inauguration. Our reality check is next.
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[07:45:42]
BERMAN: You want to hear something that might be the definition of irony? President Biden is calling for unity, yet we're hearing from some on the right that the calls for unity or the ways he's doing it are somehow divisive.
John Avlon with a reality check.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): President Joe Biden took office less than one week ago and he still hasn't united the country. I'm kidding, of course. But that might as well be the message from many Republicans who want to take his call for unity and turn it into a cudgel to hit him with.
Now, two weeks after the attack on the Capitol, Biden decided to make unity the big theme of his inaugural address.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: With unity, we can do great things. History, faith, and reason show the way -- the way of unity. Without unity there is no peace, only bitterness and fury.
AVLON (on camera): He used the word unity eight times, finding optimism in America's constant struggle between our ideals and our fears. But suddenly, some Republicans felt offended.
SEN. RAND PAUL (R-KY): Much of it is thinly-veiled innuendo calling us white supremacists, calling us racists, calling us every name in the book. Calling us people who don't tell the truth.
AVLON (on camera): No. Biden was calling the folks who carried Confederate flags or wore Camp Auschwitz sweatshirts racists and white supremacists. There's no reason Sen. Rand Paul would take that personally, right?
And the only people who Biden accused of not telling the truth are folks who refused to denounce Donald Trump's big lie about the election being stolen. People like Sen. Josh Hawley.
SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R-MO): We hear a lot of talk now about unity but sadly, I think they don't want unity, they want control.
AVLON (on camera): Now, Hawley is upset because his cynical gambit to contest the election blew up in his face. So he's playing the victim, complaining that he's been muzzled in a front-page op-ed in the "New York Post." Some muzzle.
But this is the flop -- you know, the move in soccer where the player flops to the ground after the slightest touch? Well, some Republicans are suddenly feeling very sensitive over any perceived slight when they took all of Trump's insults in stride.
So they'll ignore Biden's executive order to strengthen Buy America provisions but pounce on his reversal of Trump's ban on trans troops. They'll look for any opportunity to repeat their radical leftist talking points, which ignores the reality of how Biden campaigned and his actual cabinet which is decidedly centrist. The attacks just don't fit the facts.
And Republicans' concern for the feelings of the 74 million Trump voters was never evident to the majority of Americans who voted for Hillary Clinton in '16. There was no talk about the need to reach out then.
But Biden has consistently said he wants to reach out, but preaching the need for unity does not mean we ignore all our differences. It means we confront them and try to overcome them by reasoning together. But during the campaign, Biden took a lot of heat for saying he wanted to work with Republicans.
Here's the thing. Sixty-six percent of Americans agree on this. They want Republicans and Democrats to work together. But that doesn't mean having a Democratic president, House, and Senate implement only what Republicans want. It means good faith negotiation and principled compromise for the common good. What a concept.
And that's your reality check.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
BERMAN: All right, our thanks to John for that. Appreciate it.
So, Black Americans should move south and take over. That is a suggestion in a bold new manifesto published today. The author joins us, next. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)
[07:53:31]
BERMAN: African-Americans should move south, amass political power, and take over. This is basically the thesis in this remarkable new book out by our friend Charles Blow, a "New York Times" op-ed columnist. The book, "The Devil You Know: A Black Power Manifesto" is out today. Charles, thanks so much for being with us. Congratulations on the new book.
And I just want to cut right to the chase here because this isn't some theoretical concept that you're musing about; this is basically a how- to guide for African-Americans --
CHARLES BLOW, OP-ED COLUMNIST, THE NEW YORK TIMES, AUTHOR, "THE DEVIL YOU KNOW: A BLACK POWER MANIFESTO": Yes, it is.
BERMAN: -- to amass practical power. You say go south, become the majority in certain places, take over. What do you mean, and why?
BLOW: Because at the end of the Civil War -- I'm not saying go there. I'm saying go back there. At the end of the Civil War, three southern states were majority Black -- Louisiana, Mississippi, and South Carolina. Three other southern states were within four percentage points of being majority Black. They exercised that power.
Mississippi, of all places in America -- maybe unlikely to some of your viewers today -- was a black power center during reconstruction. They had a massive delegation of black state legislators.
And at that time, United States senators in Mississippi were appointed by State Legislatures. They were able to go to the rest of their colleagues and say listen, one of these two open Senate seats has to be a black man, and that's who they sent to the U.S. Senate. That's what real power looks like.
[07:55:00]
The only reason that black people are not a bigger force in the south of the United States right now is that white terror removed them from that space. White terror suppressed them to the point that the great migration became a thing. It was a push-pull. There was the pull of economic opportunity and civic engagement, but there was also the push of terrorism of white supremacists in the south.
I'm saying that that victory by white supremacy cannot be allowed to stand. That you have to reframe what power looks like for black people in America. And part of that is simply to return to where you would have been a majority anyway.
BERMAN: You're talking about a reversal of the great migration. You're talking about a massive historical movement here.
So what will be gained? In addition to just righting a wrong that you point, what would be gained, practically speaking, by this? And you identify, literally, nine states where you think it is most practical.
BLOW: Absolutely. The -- one thing to understand is that it is already happening. The great migration has been written about for at least -- the reverse migration had been written about for at least 10 years now. By my calculations, enough millennials alone have moved back in the last decade or two that surpasses the number of people who left the south in the first wave of the great migration going north and west.
It is already happening. It's just that it doesn't have the same kind of weight because there are now four times as many black people in America as there were at the -- when the great migration began.
But what it gains you is exactly what happened here in Georgia in this election. This was the first time that black people were the majority of a coalition that elected U.S. senators to the House of Representatives. That is enormous. That is a -- that is a seismic shift. It is the first time since reconstruction that black people were the majority of the coalition that -- am I still here?
BERMAN: You're still there.
BLOW: OK, I'm sorry. This is problems of doing this remotely.
BERMAN: Hey --
BLOW: But with the majority of the people who delivered the state for one of the candidates.
The last time that Georgia went for a Democrat was in 1992. Black people were 25 percent of the population of Georgia. Because of the great migration -- reverse migration, this time black people were 33 percent of the population of Georgia. Between 1990 and 2000, the black population of Georgia doubled from 1.7 million black people to now, 3.4 million black people.
BERMAN: Charles, I don't want to cut you off but I want to get to one more point that I think is really important in your book here. Because you know that there will be people in the north -- whites in the north who will look at this and say well, wait a second. We all marched in the Black Lives Matter protests. We were out there in the streets calling for social justice.
You say to them -- you call that a moment of social justice Coachella. What do you mean by that?
BLOW: Listen, I believe that if you are experiencing a moment of personal growth, I'm happy for you. But black liberation cannot be dependent on white people's growth out of racism. It cannot be dependent on your becoming more of an egalitarian. Those days are over.
We've had 400 years of waiting for white America to do right by black people. For white Americans to simply not to give, but simply say all human beings are equal human beings deserving of equality in a society and equal access to opportunity and political engagement. White America, for 400 years, has failed to sufficiently and fully do
that and no amount of going out with a placard and then going back to brunch is going to solve that. That is solved by power.
People think that white supremacy and racism is only about how I feel about you. No, it's about power.
Stokely Carmichael said if you -- if a man wants to lynch me, that's his problem. If he has the power to lynch me -- now, that's my problem.
We have to change who has power, who has access to power, who controls that power, and who that power is accountable to.
BERMAN: Charles Blow, the book is "The Devil You Know." It is fascinating, it is timely. Again, we're so glad you're with us this morning. Congratulations on the new book.
BLOW: Thank you so much.
BERMAN: NEW DAY continues right now.
ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.
CAMEROTA: And good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.
And we begin with an historic moment in Washington. House managers delivering the sole article of impeachment against former President Trump to the Senate.
