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Interview with New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy On President Biden's Pledge to Speed Up Vaccine Deliveries; President Biden Promises to Boost Vaccine Shipments to States by 16 Percent; New Videos Emerge of Capitol Riots; Forty-Five Republican Senators Vote in Favor of Bill Stating Second Impeachment Trial of Former President Trump is Unconstitutional. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired January 27, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: vaccine for me, will there be enough vaccine for me when my turn comes up? These are simple questions, but there are few clear answers, or have been so far. The Biden administration is trying to change that. The president announced that the amount of vaccines shipped will increase 16 percent starting next week, and that the U.S. has purchased 200 million more doses overall, enough to vaccinate nearly the entire population by the end of the summer.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Senate Republicans still rallying behind former President Donald Trump and they appear willing to overlook his role in the deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. Forty-five Republican senators voted to try to prevent an impeachment trial by claiming it would not be constitutional, even Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell, who just one week ago directly blamed Trump for inciting the violent siege.

But the rioters themselves are very clear on who called them to do it. They say Donald Trump's words sent them to the Capitol. This morning we bring you new video that could be used at the trial, showing how Trump's rabid supporters followed his cues during the siege.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: You don't concede when there's theft involved.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We already voted, and what have they done? They stole it! We want our country back!

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: Much more on that in just a moment. We begin, though, with the effort to speed up vaccine delivery. Joining us now, CNN chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta. Sanjay, you were listening as the president said by next week they're going to increase the amount of vaccine shipped by 16 percent, that this summer -- by this summer, they want to purchase 200 million more doses of vaccine. What's important here? When you look at this and see what the administration is doing, what's your most important takeaway?

SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: I think the most important thing is we obviously have to have enough vaccine, but the pace at which these vaccines actually get to administer, meaning shots going into arms, I think is really critically important. I guess we all know that. But it's become even more important as we've discussed this in the context of these variants.

It's important to remember that when the virus spreads, the more it spreads, the more mutations it continues to accumulate. Many of these mutations are not going to be that consequential, but every now and then you'll get mutations that aggregate and could potentially start to escape -- develop what's called escape immunity from the vaccines. So it is a bit of a race. You want to do a lot of vaccinations, and you do want to do it as quickly as possible.

I'm still struck by the amount of vaccine -- we could show the numbers -- the amount of vaccine that has been distributed to states and the amount that's been administered. There's still a significant shortfall there between these two numbers. And I think that's really important because there's some places where clearly, they are doing a great job, they're administering the vaccines very efficiently like in West Virginia, but there are still places where the supply is outstripping the actual administration of the vaccine. So that has to be fixed as well. So more vaccines, more basic ingredients for vaccines, and more vaccinators is going to really critical.

CAMEROTA: Sanjay, that's why I'm confused about the number of vaccines. The supply, the amount of vaccine that we have now, because it seems like we have a surplus. So here's the numbers. Now that President Biden has announced that he's buying all of these more Pfizer and Moderna, 300 million doses of Pfizer, 300 million of Moderna, 300 million of AstraZeneca, 100 million of the J&J which might be just one shot needed. And then it goes on from there. We have enough to vaccinate the country many times over at this point, but we're not getting the vaccines into arms well.

GUPTA: Yes, that has been the problem. Now, that list of vaccines that you just showed there, obviously, those were some -- based on some bets that they made in terms of who was likely to have an authorized vaccine candidate. Only Moderna and Pfizer so far. Johnson & Johnson looking very promising. AstraZeneca has been authorized in other places around the world but not yet in the United States. But if those all came through, we would have far more vaccine than is necessary, you're absolutely right.

But there's these other problems. Actually getting the shots administered has been a problem, in part because in some areas you may not have enough people to actually put the shots into arms. It's remarkable. This is a complicated task. Never had 100 million vaccines go into 100 million people in 100 days before. So it is a challenge. But I think it's becoming increasingly clear what the rate limiting steps are. We know from talking to the pharmacy, retail world, that they could potentially do 100 million vaccines a month if they had the resources and the people to actually do it. So I think that they addressed those specific problems. I think you're right. The vaccine supply seems unlikely to be the

problem. Could they still have manufacturing problems? Could you have a slowdown in production for various reasons? Possibly. Right now, it looks like the vaccine supply will at least be evened out for the next several weeks.

[08:05:09]

BERMAN: So Sanjay, we're going to hear from the government's top scientists today in this briefing. We're being promised we're going to hear from them a lot, the scientists, not the politicians, when it comes to coronavirus. Fauci, Walensky, the others will be there. You're going to hear from some of them tonight in a CNN town hall also.

But first the public briefing, without revealing the supersecret questions you're going to ask them tonight, I am curious, if you could get information now, what is the most important information to get from the government's top scientists?

GUPTA: Well, I think that the idea that we still don't know exactly how many vaccine doses, vaccine supply there is out there. It's still a bit of a -- I've been talking to people this morning, trying to get the answer to this basic question. I think this is obviously the question on a lot of people's minds, but then also what does it translate to in terms of speed of vaccine administration.

I also -- I think the basic questions still apply here. Testing, for example. We tend to go for the homeruns in this country and as a result, we don't talk as much about the basics which could have a huge difference. Testing -- are we going to get to that point where we can have widespread, rapid testing, even possibly at point of location, people's homes, places like that.

And masks, I was doing a piece last week with a -- people who have been focused on N95 masks for some time, and they said to me an extraordinary thing. They said if people wore N95 masks in public higher risk situations, population dense situations, for four weeks we could probably bring an end to this pandemic. So, yes, the vaccines, yes, the variants, what's the plan for that. But also the basics, such as testing and masks.

BERMAN: Double mask, Sanjay. Sorry, quick bonus mask. Everyone is talking about whether or not they should wear two masks now. What do you think?

GUPTA: I think -- so the N95s are still hard to get, which is amazing to me more than a year into this. The kn95s are easier to get and they have emergency use authorization. The thing about those masks is they have electrostatically charged fibers so they grab viral particles like a blanket grabs your socks in the dryer. That's why they're so effective. But, yes, double mask, a surgical mask with a cloth mask on top, probably get you to 90 percent, 91 percent effective in terms of actually filtering out those viral particles.

CAMEROTA: I don't have one, so I'm just going to wear a sock. But thank you very much, Sanjay, for --

GUPTA: I'll send you one. I'll send you one.

(LAUGHTER)

CAMEROTA: Thank you. That would be great. Ask and ye shall receive from Sanjay.

BERMAN: News you can use.

GUPTA: Is that your way of asking.

CAMEROTA: Yes. Thanks, Sanjay.

Dr. Anthony Fauci and top doctors from President Biden's coronavirus team join Anderson Cooper and Dr. Sanjay Gupta for a new town hall tonight at 8:00. eastern.

OK, so 45 Republican senators voting against President Trump's impeachment trial. They claim it is unconstitutional. That signals a likely acquittal for President Trump for encouraging the violent mob at the U.S. Capitol three weeks ago, but who knows what other evidence is going to come out, since videos like this seem to surface every single day.

Joining us now is CNN White House correspondent John Harwood. This video, I just want to play a specific moment of this video, because if this were a criminal trial, this would be Exhibit A. This is where President Trump says something about Vice President Pence, and the mob then basically repeats it verbatim, it gets in their head, and they go looking for Mike Pence. So listen to this moment.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's over. It was awesome. Some of you may have seen online he went over all the voter fraud. I am very concerned about Mike Pence. I have no idea what he's going to do. Did not love the way the president talked about that. And I don't know. We'll see. Anyways, we're walking over to the Capitol right now. And I don't know, maybe we'll break down the doors.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: This is a tweet from President Trump about Mike Pence that they then parroted.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CROWD: Mike Pence is a bitch! Mike Pence is a bitch! Mike Pence is a bitch!

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can I speak to Pelosi? We're coming, bitch. Mike Pence, we're coming for you, too, traitor.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're sending a message to Pence, OK, that if they don't do as their oath to do, if they don't uphold the Constitution, then we will remove them from office one way or another.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Basically, the point here is, John, that that's from Parler, which is this extreme site, and what this security forum, just security did, was they paired either President Trump's tweets or his words with then what the riotous mob was saying. But yet, somehow, these 45 senators don't see it that way.

[08:10:14]

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, if you are a member of the Senate, and you want an excuse not to condemn Donald Trump or vote to convict Donald Trump, you can find one. And they are all looking for one. They are looking for something to hide behind.

The reality is that success in the Republican Party right now requires aligning yourself with and marshalling some really dark emotions. It's about bitterness and fear and anger. The core Republican message right now is not, here's how I'm going to make your life better. It's, those people are coming to get you, in particular, black and brown people, but radical socialists. That is what the Republicans are communicating.

They're not all like Donald Trump. Donald Trump was the most aggressive in stirring those emotions, but they all know that if you don't accede to them, they will be turned on you, just like Donald Trump turned them on Mike Pence.

And so in the moment when it was at its ugliest and most frightening, when there was the blood of a Capitol police officer on the ground of the Capitol, people like Lindsey Graham got on the Senate floor and said, you know what, I'm out. I can't do this anymore. But once all that gets cleaned up, and you get further away from it, and you look around and you say, well, my career has got to go on. If your career is going to go on, that's what you're going to do. You're going to accommodate yourself to it. In fact, Lindsey Graham, when asked about whether there would be votes to convict Donald Trump, he said, depends on what phase of your career you're in.

Rob Portman, mild-mannered senator from Ohio this week, decided I'm out. I can't do this anymore. He voted with the 45. Will he vote to convict? He said he didn't rule out the possibility of a conviction. But nobody is expecting that's going to happen, and Republicans are going to try to push this as far in the rearview mirror as they can and get back to business and hope that people will forget those intense moments and won't punish them for them.

BERMAN: America is not going to forget that five people were killed, including a Capitol police officer killed on the grounds that day. It simply happened. And this is the second impeachment of a president. That is historic. This trial will be historic. Don't know what the end vote will be, but we did learn something about politics yesterday. We did learn something about the Republican Party, about where it is at this moment, John. Denver Riggleman, former Republican congressman, was on with us a

little bit earlier, and he said something to me which stuck. He said, I do not see some kind of groundswell where people are all of a sudden anti-President Trump. It's not happening. I don't know how else to say it. And that's from a former Republican congressman who would certainly vote to impeach and convict right now. He's just saying the base ain't saying that right now, John.

HARWOOD: Look, if the Trump base is split or fractured or out of the Republican Party, they don't win any elections. I don't think President Trump is prepared to do the work, or is committed to the idea of a third party, but he can signal disaffection with the Republican base. And you've talked about the Republican Party in Oregon talking about this as a false flag operation. You've got Republican parties elsewhere which are incorporating QAnon messaging into their logos, that sort of thing. It's -- that's where the Republican Party has landed. Don't know what is going to pull them out of it. There was a conception that was alive briefly, which was that Mitch McConnell was eager to generate some sort of break with Donald Trump to move the Republican Party forward. There is no evidence that that is happening right now.

CAMEROTA: John Harwood, thank you very much for all of the latest there from the White House.

President Biden promises to boost vaccine shipments to states by 16 percent over the next few weeks. Is that enough? We ask the governor of New Jersey, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:18:00]

CAMEROTA: The Biden administration says it will boost the weekly supply of coronavirus vaccines to states by 16 percent over the next three weeks. Is that enough to cover demand?

Joining us now is New Jersey Governor Phil Murphy.

Good morning, Governor.

GOV. PHIL MURPHY (D-NJ): Thanks for having me.

CAMEROTA: Is 16 percent enough for what you need in New Jersey?

MURPHY: It's not enough, but it's a big step in the right direction. Let there be no doubt about it. We heard several things yesterday. An increase, visibility for three weeks of what your supply is going to be in the Pfizer vaccine case, getting the equipment we need to squeeze out the extra dose available. That's all -- those are all big steps in the right direction.

Still not the end zone but the intermediate steps they're taking for the couple of month horizon are really good. So, we're slowly, but surely, I want to give them a huge shout-out and thanks. We're slowly but surely going in the direction we need to be going. CAMEROTA: In New Jersey, have you had to cancel appointments in New Jersey because you didn't have enough supply?

MURPHY: We had one or two locations, but we'll get 270 of them. So, I'm knocking on wood. I'm not suggesting we're batting a thousand, but the word I want to be associated with us is reliable.

If I have got an appointment and we're an appointment based system. We don't want people standing up all night around the block. If you got an appointment, we want to meet it. If you got a second dose appointment, we want to make sure that booster shot is there.

We've had a couple of cases that we're trying to bring to a better place but overwhelmingly, we've been -- we've been in that cadence.

CAMEROTA: What's your biggest challenge this morning?

MURPHY: Supply/demand imbalance, still. So, notwithstanding the big step yesterday, I think we have 2.2 million or 2.3 million folks who preregistered for vaccines. We'll be getting 130,000-something a week which is great.

[08:20:02]

But we still have a big supply/demand imbalance. We opened a call center quite successfully on Monday, first hour, 17,000 calls. And so, we're still going to be chopping through that for some number of weeks to come.

CAMEROTA: What do you think about the idea that's being floated to prioritize teachers? So, regardless of their age, other -- other groups, other demographics would step aside so that teachers can be vaccinated next.

MURPHY: Well, I've said, and I still believe they are in the on-deck circle. So, if you're -- if you are a teacher right now who is under 65 and you've got a chronic condition, you're already eligible. So we'd prioritize the folks we need to help us defeat the virus or the most vulnerable. That's seniors and folks with chronic conditions.

I think we get more supply, as soon as we can get there, I think educators are next up to bat.

CAMEROTA: Even if they don't have a pre-existing condition, they should jump the line in front of people who do?

MURPHY: Not jump the line, though. As I said, as we open this up further. We're going to stay steady with what we've already opened up to, but when we add groups, I want to be able to add educators as soon as we can.

CAMEROTA: Yesterday, the CDC basically said their research has concluded that schools are not super-spreaders. Schools, in fact, some research, this was done in Wisconsin, are safer. Fewer kids and people in the public schools there are getting infected than in the population, the general population. So we've heard all of the data about how important it is for kids to

be in school on every single level. Is it time for every public school in New Jersey to reopen for in-person learning?

MURPHY: Yeah, so, Alisyn, this is a tough one, obviously. And, by the way, kids can be -- can carry the virus, be asymptomatic and infect someone else. So thank God we've only had a handful of kids who have been lost to this awful virus.

But we've got hundreds of districts. We -- on a going in basis, when we closed them in the spring, when we reopened them in September, we acknowledge that no two districts are alike. So, right now, for instance, we've got many hundreds that are in a hybrid mode. So, some amount of kids are in the building every day of the week.

We've somewhat fewer districts that are all remote, but the numbers are shifting from remote to hybrid over the past couple of weeks and I expect that will continue. And another group yet again that are all in person. That is less than 100, but -- so we're going to get there. I just want to make sure we do it safely and responsibly.

CAMEROTA: The teachers union -- some of the teachers unions are quite reluctant to do that and to return to in school.

Here's the one from the South Orange district. Mr. Lopez says a return to school is on the horizon, but to do so as numbers climb, variant strains are spreading in conditions which render actual instruction less effective. It's not just fatuous but reckless. We will continue to do what we do best from the safety of our homes.

It sounds like they are in no rush to return to in-school learning.

MURPHY: Yeah, listen, I don't know Mr. Lopez. That's one of the best school districts in the state and we're the number one public education state in America.

Listen, there's an enormous amount of stress and anxiety and I completely get it, on everyone's part -- educators, parents, the kids themselves. I actually think the numbers in our state, Alisyn, I'm knocking on wood as I say this, are beginning to get better. Slowly, but they're getting better.

You combine that reality with the vaccine, getting more and more infiltrated into the broader society. I think we're starting to see the light at the end of the horizon. I think this is going in the right direction. It's slow, admittedly, but it's beginning without question, and it's a steady, slowly but surely going to the right place.

CAMEROTA: We pray that holds.

Governor Phil Murphy, thank you for your time. We really appreciate it.

MURPHY: Thanks for having me, Alisyn. CAMEROTA: All but five Senate Republicans are now questioning whether

trying a former president is constitutional. We have reaction from a top Senate Democrat to this move, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:28:12]

BERMAN: Forty-five Republican senators looking for a way out, casting a vote saying they don't think the impeachment trial of the former president is constitutional. Only five Republicans voted to move forward with the proceedings.

Joining me now is the Senate majority whip, Democratic Senator Dick Durbin.

Senator, thank you so much for being with us.

This vote yesterday, what did it tell you?

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): Well, it appears that at least 45 of the Republican senators would rather not go forward with the impeachment. I can't say what their ultimate vote will be, but whether it's loyalty to Donald Trump or fear from his followers, they did not want to take up the impeachment article sent over by the House.

BERMAN: These senators lived through this. Most of them were in the chamber when that happened during the invasion. If that wasn't enough, if living through an invasion of the capitol wasn't enough for them, what evidence, what do you think could happen at the trial that might convince them?

DURBIN: Let me tell you, as senators, we sit as jury on the impeachment article. But we also sit as eyewitnesses. I was in that chamber when the capitol police came in and said, stay where you are, we're going to protect this particular room, and ten minutes later said everybody out as fast as you can move.

We knew exactly what was going on there. There was a mob overtaking the United States Capitol for the first time in over 150 years. And their intent was clear: to disrupt our orderly government process. They were instigated into this deadly mission by a president who summoned them to Washington, fired them up on the Mall and then pointed to the capitol and said give them hell.

That is exactly what happened. That was, in my mind, one of the most despicable acts ever by a president of the United States and sad to say many of my colleagues do not even want to look at it, let alone accept it.

BERMAN: So, any minute now, any day now, you will officially become chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee. So, I'm putting this question to you as a legal matter, why would the framers of the Constitution.

[08:30:00]