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President Biden Meets with Republican Senators to Negotiation COVID Relief Bill; Former President Trump's Legal Team Prepares Defense for His Second Impeachment Trial; Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell Criticizes Republican House Member Marjorie Taylor Greene; Rep. Sylvia Garcia (D-TX) is Interviewed About Trump Impeachment Trial; Interview with Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot on Teachers Strike and Negotiations. Aired 8-8:30a ET

Aired February 02, 2021 - 08:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:00:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: This is NEW DAY. Your move, Kevin McCarthy, your move. McCarthy, of course, is the leading Republican in the House. The top Senate Republican, Mitch McConnell, said overnight that Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene is a cancer on the party, so what is McCarthy going to do about it? We're waiting to hear more this morning.

Meanwhile, do not adjust your sets. This is a political unicorn, something that exists only in fairy tales, or at least did. This is an actual, collegial, substantive, bipartisan meeting in the White House. President Biden with a group of Republican senators comparing their plans for economic relief. Huge gaps remain between what the president wants, a $1.9 trillion plan, and what the Republicans are offering, a $600 billion counteroffer. We have new details about what happens next in the negotiations, even as Democrats start to introduce the framework for passing the president's version with only Democratic votes.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: And the second impeachment trial of former President Trump ramps up today. This morning, we will see legal briefs from the House impeachment managers and Trump's legal team. But we already have a preview from Mr. Trump's newest lawyer who says the trial is, quote, completely unconstitutional.

And there are new warnings from one prominent Senate Republican who claims next week's trial could lead to delays in President Biden's agenda and cabinet confirmations.

BERMAN: We're going to begin with new reporting on the pandemic relief talks. Joining us, CNN White House correspondent John Harwood and Ayesha Rascoe. She's a White House correspondent for NPR.

And John, I want to put it up on the screen so people can see it again, this picture, this remarkable picture of people actually having a conversation, a civil conversation about substantive issues. It's President Joe Biden with nine in-person Republicans, one on Zoom. And I have to say, when I saw this, John, I realized what you had been trying to tell me patiently about your reporting and your analysis, that sometimes bipartisan is the way you go about doing things even if what you ultimately agree on isn't 100 percent unanimous. So that picture is important. That picture is very important even if the White House decides to go this alone. Explain.

JOHN HARWOOD, CNN WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Well, look, that picture that you referred to amounts to a victory for both those Republican senators and for Joe Biden. They are both displaying that we can have a congenial conversation. However, it has not so far changed any of the fundamental dynamics of this investigation.

It would be one thing if you had an offer that went one-third of the way to the new president's total from, say, the Republican leader. If Mitch McConnell proposed that, that would have more gravity to it. But here you have the bare minimum number of Republicans needed to overcome a Republican filibuster, a number that doesn't come anywhere close to the president's proposal, that omits a core Democratic demand, which is aid for state and local governments. That's simply not an offer serious enough to put pressure on Biden to seriously negotiate.

And the statement we got from the White House last night after that congenial picture was taken was, yes, we want to move fast. Yes, we want bipartisan support, but we have got to go big. That is a message that we are not feeling any pressure because of this offer. Could that change? Yes. If the Republicans want to demonstrate seriousness and come up with an offer that generates pressure on, say, Joe Manchin and Kyrsten Sinema to say, OK, we'll go with those Republicans and side with the scale of their offer. But they haven't done that yet, and there's no particular reason to think they're going to. Democrats remain confident despite that furor over the Kamala Harris interviews with West Virginia television, they remain confident they can hold all 50 Democratic senators behind their proposal, and that appears to be the track that they're pursuing.

CAMEROTA: Ayesha, I'm not as fluent in Washington doublespeak as you and John are. And so when Senator Susan Collins came out last night and gave a gracious statement to the press and said we've had a wonderful conversation, and conversations will continue, I think she said, at the staff level, does that mean that the chasm is too wide to bridge, or does it mean that some compromise might happen in the next couple of days?

AYESHA RASCOE, WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT, NPR: Well, what stood out to me from what Senator Collins said was that she didn't talk about anything specific that they actually agreed on. And neither side did. The only thing they said that they agreed on was that they care about the American people, which is a pretty low bar for compromise. We hope that all lawmakers care about the American people. So when they come out issuing those sorts of platitudes but not talking about specifics, then that's what makes it seem like there is a large gulf here between them. And also, now, granted oftentimes they don't want to negotiate in public, but there wasn't any sense that there had been any common ground.

[08:05:04] And that statement from the White House, really there were a lot of buts in it. But, we appreciate the bipartisan, but, we have to be bold. And we have to move fast. And we're not going to compromise. And that seemed to be a signal to President Biden's base that he's not going to give in to these demands to cut the package down to almost a third.

BERMAN: But Ayesha, I do think, or I have no reason to doubt that Susan Collins was genuinely pleased to have the chance to make the case. And you got the sense from the Republican senators that they were genuinely pleased to make the case. And it may very well be that they don't agree at the end. It's likely, in fact, they don't agree at the end. But this may be progress in how things get done going forward in Washington.

RASCOE: Absolutely. And I think there's been this big question when it comes to President Biden and this new administration, what does he mean by unity? What does he mean by bipartisanship? And what he seems to be saying is that what he means is not necessarily that he is going to, that Republicans and Democrats are always going to see eye to eye, but that they can have these conversations. They can be cordial with each other. They can hear each other out. They can lay out what's important to them without name-calling and people storming out of the room and slamming doors. I think that that is what President Biden has been trying to say when it comes to unity is that they'll be able to have these conversations, and maybe they can find areas where they can work together.

HARWOOD: Hey, John, I just wanted to add to that. There are definitely going to be changes in this package. Joe Biden himself has signaled he's open to more narrowly targeting those checks so that people at higher income levels don't get the checks. There's a good chance that that $15 minimum wage comes out of the package. The Democratic chairman of the budget committee says it may not be able to move under those accelerated budget rules. You could even see the size of state and local government aid coming down because there have been estimates that show that the amount of the aid that they're offering exceeds the revenue loss that state and local governments have suffered. Nevertheless, the package is going to be close to that $1.9 trillion. Biden has the strength to insist on that.

CAMEROTA: OK, John Harwood, let's move on to former President Trump's impeachment trial. His lawyers, his new legal team, have come out and said that their defense is going to be that this is completely unconstitutional. You can't try a former president, they claim. Is that a surprise? Isn't that what we were expecting, since we've already had that vote from the Republican senators, 45 who have tried to make that claim.

HARWOOD: That's exactly what we've been expecting. That is the path of least resistance toward getting the result that Republican senators want, which is an acquittal for President Trump. As you mentioned, 45 senators have already voted to say that. It is a disputed legal point. The consensus I think of legal scholars, as Mitt Romney has said, is that it is constitutional to have this trial. Nevertheless, that is a safe harbor, much safer for Republican

senators than saying, well, Donald Trump didn't have going to do with that insurrection, because we can all see what happened and we followed the building tension surrounding this lie that the president was pursuing since the election. That's likely to be where they'll go.

And is any lawyer going to stand up and try to make the case that Donald Trump wants to make, which is that the election was stolen from the president by fraud? Obviously, it was not. And anyone with sense will be to look at the evidence honestly can see that it was not. Republican leaders, Mitch McConnell, has said that it's not. So they've got to go someplace that is defensible, and I think they think this is a constitutionally defensible argument to make.

BERMAN: So Ayesha, Mitch McConnell, the Senate minority leader, Republican leader, doing something I've never seen him do, which is to attack or go after a Republican member of Congress, albeit a House member, with really harsh words, calling Marjorie Taylor Greene loony, a cancer on the party, in great detail. This has to do with lies she's told about school shootings, about Jewish space lasers, really vile stuff in this case. But the question is, why is Mitch McConnell saying this, and why does he want Kevin McCarthy, who is the House Republican leader, to actually do about Marjorie Taylor Greene?

RASCOE: Well, I think he wants to make sure that Marjorie Taylor Greene, that she is marginalized, and if not taking in the way that has happened like with Congressman Steve King where he was taken off of his committee assignments. I think that what you are hearing from Mitch McConnell is the result of seeing what happened with that insurrection, that if you allow these big lies to stand, it leads to violence.

[08:10:12]

And that if you continue, and if the Republican party continues to feed these conspiracy theories and wink and nod at them and let these people become leaders or just become people who soak up all the attention in their party, that that is not sustainable, that there are real consequences to that. And that's what this country saw when the Capitol was overtaken.

CAMEROTA: John, how can this be a tough one? How can this be a tough call for Leader Kevin McCarthy? Marjorie Taylor Greene can't be on an Education Committee. She can't be anywhere near schoolkids. The last time that we have evidence of her near a schoolkid, she was chasing David Hogg down the street, who is a survivor of the Parkland school shooting. She can't -- she has no qualifications. She's not a critical thinker in any way. How is this a tough call?

HARWOOD: Of course, she's not a critical thinker. Of course, she's not capable of being a serious legislator, as we've come to expect members of Congress.

However, the reality is, and Republican leaders have shown that they understand this reality, that their party, to win elections in 2021, relies on the energy and the intensity of people that Marjorie Taylor Greene speaks for. The feelings of anger and bitterness and fear of people who think the country is moving away from them culturally, racially, economically, that anger is a critical force in Republican politics.

Remember, the Republican Party had a convention last year. They did not adopt a platform of any kind. They simply rallied behind Trump, who is the tribune for that anger in the Republican Party. He continued to be after the election. It finally blew up in all of their -- in his face, in everyone's face, cost the lives of five people, a couple of suicides since then. So it's been very consequential and damaging event for American democracy internationally as well as at home. And now they've got to come to grips with it.

But they still know if they turn off a significant chunk of those people that she is speaking for, they are going to lose. That may be the smart play for them in the short term, and Mitch McConnell is looking at the long term. He wants to win his majority back. He understands that a major national political party that has a significant chunk of it that's manifestly crazy, that's not going to be viable. But how you get from here to there is the challenge for the Republican Party and Republican leaders.

CAMEROTA: Yes, very quickly, one more time, Marjorie Taylor Greene according to all the local Georgia press, she has a multimillion- dollar company she was given from her dad, a construction company. So the fact that she speaks for sort of disenchanted or impoverished people or whatever is a myth. John, Ayesha, thank you very much.

Lawyers on both sides of former President Trump's second impeachment trial face a big deadline this morning. So what we already know about the case that the impeachment managers plan to make, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[08:17:06]

BERMAN: We are hearing for the first time from the former president's new impeachment lawyers. And shortly, we will hear from the impeachment managers about how they will present their case that the former president incited the insurrection at the U.S. Capitol.

Joining me now is Democratic Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia. She was a House impeachment manager in the first impeachment trial against the former president.

Thank you so much for being with us.

What case do you think that the new House managers need to make?

REP. SYLVIA GARCIA (D-TX): Well, I think it's going to be a very strong case, and a case that, quite frankly, the whole world watched all the facts as they unveiled that day -- everything from the inciteful words that the president used at the rally to all the video and all the photos and tweets and all the activity on social media that happened that day.

And then there's all of us who are there on the floor, who were there as witnesses, as victims, as --

(VIDEO GAP)

BERMAN: Congressman Garcia appears to be frozen temporarily. We're going to wait and see if we get that video back up and running.

We're going to try to get her back in a second. But, listen, while we're waiting and trying to get her back, I want to play for you, she was saying the video of the riots, what happened that day.

We did hear for the first time from the former president's new impeachment lawyer David Schoen who says, why will we need to see video anyway?

Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DAVID SCHOEN, TRUMP'S IMPEACHMENT DEFENSE LAWYER: Does this country really need to see videotapes? We know now that Mr. Swalwell and the other managers tend to show videotapes of the riots and people calling in, people being hurt, police officers talking.

Why does the country need that now? We'd stipulate there was a riot that went on that day. It was a tragedy.

President Trump has condemned violence at all times. Read the words of his speech, calls for peacefulness. This had nothing to do with President Trump.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: This has nothing to do with President Trump. That is the argument that will be made from his new impeachment lawyers.

But -- but we, of course, do have the former president's own words from before the capitol was attacked. Listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT: We're going to walk down to the capitol and we're going to cheer on our brave senators and congressmen and women, and we're probably not going to be cheering so much for some of them. Because you'll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength. And you have to be strong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: You'll never take back the country with weakness. We'll discuss what message was received by those attackers, and we're going to try to get the congresswoman back, next.

[08:20:00]

Also, there's still no deal as the threat of a teachers strike looms in Chicago. The mayor of Chicago joins us. (COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We are back with Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia who was a House impeachment manager on the former president's first impeachment trial. We're talking about the case the House impeachment managers need to make.

And, Congresswoman, I played sound from the former president's new lawyer who says basically, we don't need to see video of the insurrection. We will stipulate that there was an insurrection or riot at the U.S. Capitol. The argument that we're making, this attorney says, is that the former president is not responsible for it.

So how do you prove that he is?

GARCIA: Well, I, number one, I disagree with him. I think you do need the video because you take the words of what he said at the rally. You take the tweets, you take all the action, social media action that happened before the event, and then you juxtapose that with what actually happened in words from some of the domestic terrorists in their own words saying, oh, yes, we were following what the president said.

And then you look at some of the affidavits they filed in federal court saying that, you know, they were doing what they were doing because of what President Trump asked them to do.

And, in fact, some of them even suggested that -- the lawyers suggested that they wanted to get a pardon.

So I think you must have the video, you must have the tweets. You must have the photos because you connect the words with the actions. You know, when he said -- and we fight, that we have to fight like hell, I mean, that's inciteful. That's telling people, go out there and do something.

So you've got to look at the totality of the circumstances, and all the facts around the actions that were taken. And once you do that and connect the dots, the case is made.

BERMAN: What about witnesses? You called yourself a witness and every member of Congress a witness, too. Do you believe or what do you believe that live witnesses would provide to this? How essential are they?

And what do you make of Lindsey Graham threatening? And I don't even quite know that I follow the logic behind these threats. He's like, well, if you call witnesses, it will open Pandora's Box, and we're going to call witnesses, including the FBI.

GARCIA: Well, you know, I -- I'm going to leave that up to the managers and lead manager Jamie Raskin who I have a deep respect for. He's a constitutional scholar and an expert on all of this, because witnesses do add a lot. You know, there's nothing like hearing the exact words from people that were there. Eyewitness accounts of anything. But that's a call that the impeachment managers have to make, and I'm

not going to try to second-guess what their strategy is. I just know that any time that I looked at a case, I always -- I always would ask -- that would always be one of my first questions. Was there a witness?

And as we recall, the first impeachment trial, we were denied having any witnesses. So, we'll see what happens, and like the rest of America, I'll be watching next Monday.

BERMAN: Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia, we appreciate your patience. Thanks for bearing with us. Thank you.

GARCIA: Thank you.

BERMAN: Alisyn?

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: OK, John.

America's third largest school district, Chicago public schools, narrowly avoiding a teachers strike today, but for how long? The mayor wants schools to open this week. The teachers union says they're not ready. The two sides are in a, quote, cooling off period.

So, where does that leave the students?

Joining us now is Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot.

Mayor, thanks so much for being here.

So, you're in this cooling off period, what issues still need to be resolved in the next 36 hours for schools to reopen?

MAYOR LORI LIGHTFOOT (D-IL), CHICAGO: Well, thank you for having me on this morning.

We are making some progress, and I thought it was in the interest of all that we announce a cooling off period, meaning negotiations would continue intensely, but we would not take any disciplinary action against teachers who were refusing to report to their classrooms.

CAMEROTA: So what's the sticking point?

(CROSSTALK)

LIGHTFOOT: So, we need to continue to work -- I'm sorry?

CAMEROTA: What's the sticking point?

LIGHTFOOT: Yeah, we need to continue to work on issues around vaccines and accommodations for individuals who have individuals in their household who have challenging medical conditions that they believe would be exacerbated with COVID.

So, look, this is a very difficult situation. And we're in it still because of the incompetence of the previous administration. So I think it's important for both sides to come to the table in good

faith, recognize that we're both trying to work through a very challenging situation, but we must get a deal done.

So I've tried to say let's cool down. Let's lower the temperature, but let's focus on bridging the divide in the remaining issues so we can get a deal done. And those 70,000-plus parents who have said I want to come back to in-person for my student, that they have the option to do so.

CAMEROTA: Is the teachers union insisting that all the teachers be vaccinated before they go back into the classroom?

LIGHTFOOT: Look, I don't want to negotiate everything here on TV, but it's important that we focus on what's realistic and what's not. And that's the kind of clarity that my team is bringing to the bargaining table.

As I said, we made material progress yesterday. I remain optimistic. We've got to work hard today to get everything done. But that's why the clock is ticking. We've got to get a deal done by the end of the day tomorrow or Wednesday.

CAMEROTA: Here is what one teacher says. This is a teacher who lost her grandmother to COVID in November. Here's her reasoning.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

LORI TORRES, CHICAGO PUBLIC SCHOOL TEACHER: I need to worry about not just what my students are facing, but also what my family and myself are facing. I think it's okay that in a time like this that I take a step back and consider me at this point. I have some health concerns.

[08:30:00]