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New Day

Answering Your Questions On Coronavirus Vaccines And Variants; CNN Reality Check: Fact-Checking In The Post-Trump Era; Mom Describes How She Escaped QAnon Rabbit Hole. Aired 7:30-8a ET

Aired February 03, 2021 - 07:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:30:50]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: All right, we do have breaking news. A new study from the United Kingdom finds that the AstraZeneca vaccine not only prevents serious illness but substantially slows the transmission of the virus.

Joining us now is Dr. Paul Offit. He's the director of the Vaccine Education Center of the Children's Hospital of Philadelphia and also a member of the FDA's vaccine advisory committee.

And Dr. Offit, this is important if it bears out because one of the big open questions about vaccines in general, we have seen them preventing serious illness -- maybe even hospitalizations and death -- they help people from getting seriously sick, but we haven't known whether the vaccines keep you from spreading the virus to other people. And this study on AstraZeneca has found that it's a 67 percent transmission reduction.

How important is this and what's your take on this finding?

DR. PAUL OFFIT, DIRECTOR, VACCINE EDUCATION CENTER, CHILDREN'S HOSPITAL OF PHILADELPHIA, MEMBER, FDA VACCINE ADVISORY COMMITTEE (via Cisco Webex): It's good news.

I would like to point out that they looked to see whether or not they were preventing asymptomatic viral shedding. That also might be true with the mRNA vaccines with Pfizer and Moderna, who really didn't look that hard when they did those studies. So I think if we look at those two vaccines, in the same manner, to see whether or not they reduce shedding, they may also reduce shedding.

Also, just another point. There are a number of vaccines out there that we currently have, like the rotavirus vaccine and the flu vaccine and the pneumococcus vaccine which don't necessarily prevent asymptomatic shedding. What they tend to do though is that when you're immunized you can't just shed less virus than if you're not immunized.

BERMAN: Can I just have a follow-up there? The implications though -- if you're shedding less, in theory, then you contaminate or infect fewer people or you might infect -- it's still good news if you're shedding less virus. And this matters for where we are right now in this -- in the push to vaccinate more people in an attempt maybe to get ahead of these variants, correct?

OFFIT: No, it's good news. And we are also sort of redoing the same sort of study in the United States with the U.K. AstraZeneca product where they are going to look at sort of two doses given a month apart, and we'll see whether in the American population that we find similar things.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: A lot of people wrote in -- viewers -- and they have questions for you. And I want to get to some of these because I think that -- I think we all have some of these questions.

And I want to skip right to one from Adam because this is a question that I think all of us have going forward in terms of how we'll get our vaccines. He says, "Will it be wise to get a vaccine at a non- medical facility -- for example, a pharmacy or a school -- given the possible, if unlikely, possibility of an allergic reaction? If someone has an anaphylactic reaction in a CVS or Walmart, can a pharmacist handle this?"

I'm sure they can, but what about at a mass vaccination site?

OFFIT: No, that's a great question.

First of all, the background rate of severe anaphylactic or allergic reaction for vaccines before we ever had an MRNA or a COVID vaccine was about one per million. So the recommendation has always been to wait for at least 15 minutes after you've gotten a vaccine to make sure you don't have that reaction in a place that can give you a shot of epinephrine. So that's always been true and nothing changes here.

But you're absolutely right. You need to be in a place that has epinephrine that can give you a shot within 15 minutes. Or if you've ever had a severe allergic reaction in the past, then you have to wait 30 minutes.

He's absolutely right. You need to be in that kind of place. Pharmacies are that kind of place and pharmacies have given vaccines before.

But you're right. Now we're looking at places that don't typically give vaccines and need to make sure that the epinephrine is around.

BERMAN: I have a viewer question. It's from me, John, in New York, who writes there's also this study out of the United Kingdom which is looking at the variant that has been prevalent there with some suggestion that a variant is mutating in a way to become more resistant to the vaccines. How are we to interpret this, Dr. Offit?

OFFIT: Right, and that's what you worry about. I mean, ever since this bat coronavirus came out of Wuhan, it was initially a variant. The first sort of virus that spread through Europe and ultimately the United States was actually a variant. And we have a number of other variants -- the U.K. variant, the South African variant, the Brazilian variant, and now the California variant. The critical question is are these variants going to escape

recognition by vaccine-induced immunity. But I think more importantly, are they able to escape recognition, at least for preventing severe infection because that's really what you care about.

[07:35:04]

What it looks like right now is that the U.K. variant is still fully susceptible to vaccine-induced immunity and that's good. It's the South African and its cousin, the Brazilian variant, that you worry about. And what it looks like so far is that while these vaccines like the vaccines that we have here in this country are less effective in preventing moderate to severe disease, they seem to still be very effective against preventing severe disease.

I think when you should really start to worry about this is when you see people who are fully vaccinated who then are nonetheless hospitalized with COVID-19 because of one of these variants. That's when you have to -- that's when you know that we've crossed an important line. And in the meantime, before that happens, we have to make sure that we're at least gearing up to make vaccines against these variants in case that happens.

CAMEROTA: Did that answer John's question? John's satisfied?

BERMAN: Yes, John from New York is very satisfied --

CAMEROTA: Fantastic.

BERMAN: -- with that answer.

CAMEROTA: OK, let's move on to Gwendolyn. Gwendolyn says "Since the Johnson & Johnson vaccine has an 85 percent efficacy for the severe symptoms of the coronavirus, what do experts think about giving it to hospitalized patients with severe symptoms?"

It sounds like she's saying like can it act as a therapeutic to cut down on severe symptoms after you already have coronavirus.

OFFIT: Right, no. So it's a prophylactic vaccine. It prevents infection. It's not a therapeutic vaccine. It doesn't treat infection. So that wouldn't -- that wouldn't be of value -- no.

BERMAN: Johnson & Johnson, Dr. Offit -- you were on with us last week the minute that we got the press release on the third phase of that trial and you had barely had a chance to digest it. Yet, at that point, your thinking was look, you know, it may not be as effective as Moderna and Pfizer but it's a good weapon to have. It's a good thing to have in the arsenal to fight this pandemic.

Since then, you've had a chance to dig a little bit deeper. How have your views maybe changed?

OFFIT: Well, still -- I mean, we -- Johnson & Johnson will eventually submit their data for approval through emergency use authorization. Then the panel on which I sit, the FDA's advisory panel, will get to look at all those data and so will the FDA. We'll get two 100-page documents that goes through all those data because right now, you and me and Alisyn are all dealing with press release data.

So I think we'll be able to dig down on those data when the -- Johnson & Johnson submits for approval.

CAMEROTA: Dr. Offit, thank you very much. We always appreciate the information.

OFFIT: Thank you, my pleasure.

CAMEROTA: We want to take a moment now to remember some of the nearly 447,000 Americans lost to coronavirus.

Alfredo Climaco had just expanded his business from a pina colada stand that showed up at festivals all over Portland, Oregon to a brick and mortar cocktail bar called Tropicale. Family members tell "The Oregonian" he had dreams of building the bar into a cocktail empire. He was just 32 years old.

Joseph Ferrugia was a 30-year veteran of the New York Fire Department and had survived being a World Trade Center first responder. He was cited twice for bravery over the years. Ferrugia is the first active FDNY firefighter to die of coronavirus. The Long Island father of three was 61 years old.

Captain Sir Tom Moore raised $45 million to support British hospitals in the middle of the pandemic by walking 100 laps around his tiny garden by his 100th birthday. The World War II Army veteran was knighted by Queen Elizabeth for his efforts. Prime Minister Boris Johnson, on Tuesday, called Capt. Tom a hero in the truest sense of the word.

We'll be right back.

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[07:42:56]

BERMAN: Exactly two weeks since Joe Biden became President of the United States, so how factual has the Biden administration been so far? John Avlon with a reality check.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

JOHN AVLON, CNN SENIOR POLITICAL ANALYST (on camera): This week, President Joe Biden met with Republican senators about COVID-19 relief and there were no reports of insults exchanged or presidential temper tantrums. Over the weekend, Biden went to mass and worked in the Oval Office. There were no rage tweets or incitement of insurrection. It's been a long time, but is this what normal feels like?

Now, there are ways to quantify the crazy we just went through, like this number. That's the grand total of false or misleading statements made by Donald Trump over the course of his presidency. That averages to around 21 false claims a day. No wonder fact-checking was a growth industry in the Trump era. One

analysis showed that fact-checking organizations worldwide grew from around 145 in 2016 to 304 in 2020.

But in the opening days of the Biden presidency, fact-checkers have been adjusting to a new normal. Take this headline from CNN's Daniel Dale. He went through Biden's big economic speech and found seven claims worth fact-checking. The accuracy was usually a question of calculations or characterizations. Debatable details, but far from willful lies.

Now, Biden has gotten one dreaded four Pinocchios rating about an inaccurate claim that foreign company contracts went up 30 percent under Trump. The actual number was 8.4 percent. Of course, the partisan outrage machine is still looking to score points.

And claims that Biden flip-flopped on a campaign pledge and banned all fracking were false. Instead, he suspended oil and gas drilling on federal lands, as promised.

Another game of gotcha was seen in claims that Biden was contradicting campaign pledges not to abuse executive orders, falsely claiming he was admitting acting like a dictator. Enough with the hypocritical pearl-clutching, people. Yes, Biden has issued more than 40 executive actions since entering office, reversing many executive orders put in place by Donald Trump.

But Republicans' renewed focus on executive orders doesn't exactly pass the smell test when you consider that Trump's 220 were higher than the 147 from Obama's first term.

[07:45:04]

So if there's a different cadence to coverage of Biden to date, remember that journalism is a search for the truth and if you have a president who lies every day, it's not going to go well.

And it's not just those pesky journalists. According to an internal post-mortem of the Trump campaign by their own pollster analyzing publicly available exit poll and survey data, Trump lost -- partially because the former president suffered from voter perception that he wasn't honest or trustworthy.

Now, of course, every president will be held accountable by the press. The Biden administration will have its share of mistakes and misstatements, scandals, and even outright lies. But it would be naive in the extreme to assume that the need for fact-checking will lessen with the new president because the disinformation ecosystem is still in overdrive.

Democracy depends on reasoning together but our cynic debates have become polluted by lies and conspiracy theories. So it's part of the news that people need most right now, cutting through the chaos, adding crucial context, and fighting for the idea that everyone is entitled to their own opinion but not their own facts. And that's your reality check.

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BERMAN: Our thanks to John for that.

So this morning, we are waiting to see how House Republican leader Kevin McCarthy handles QAnon member of Congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene. In the meantime, we have an extraordinary report. A one-time QAnon supporter speaks out.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ASHLEY VANDERBILT, FORMER QANON BELIEVER: In a way, I probably lost touch with a little bit of reality and that -- almost that common sense. And so, I'm not so much embarrassed for what I believe but, I mean, I feel foolish.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: How she fell into the rabbit hole of conspiracies -- and this is fascinating -- the one thing she says that could have pulled her out.

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[07:50:58]

CAMEROTA: One South Carolina mom who became a QAnon follower actually feared that she and her daughter would have to go into hiding after President Biden took office because of all of the disinformation she fell for. Then, her QAnon fever broke and she came to her senses.

CNN's Donie O'Sullivan joins us with her story. This is fascinating, Donie. So tell us what happened -- her whole trajectory.

DONIE O'SULLIVAN, CNN REPORTER (via Cisco Webex): Hey, Alisyn.

Yes, many followers of QAnon still believe this conspiracy theory. But we spoke to one woman who voted for Trump in November but recently just realized QAnon is a lie. Have a listen.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

VANDERBILT: When President Biden was sworn in --

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Joseph Robinette Biden, Jr. --

VANDERBILT: -- I was just crying. I mean, I couldn't stop with that ugly cry that you do. It just kept going. And I was like oh my gosh, like, I'm seeing the funeral of our country.

And instantly, I went into panic mode. I had to call my mom and I just told her -- I was like we're all going to die. We're going to be owned by China. And I was like I'm going to have to pull my daughter out of school because they're going to take her. I was scared to death.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): Ashley Vanderbilt, a South Carolina mom who says she lost her job early in the pandemic, fell deep down the QAnon conspiracy theory rabbit hole before November's election.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): How did you get into this world and go down this rabbit hole?

VANDERBILT: Well, I started seeing TikToks and I didn't know that it was conspiracy things. I just thought it was -- they were telling me something that nobody else knew.

So then I would reach out to different friends of mine that were bigger Trump supporters. I would say, you know, I saw this on TikTok. What do you think? And they'd start sending me YouTube videos. They would start sending me different Facebook live videos.

And one thing led to another. I just went down this rabbit hole learning all this stuff.

But, I mean, what have we heard the last four or five years? Don't watch the news -- fake news, fake news. I don't watch the news. I don't read newspapers. Like, I don't do anything.

I've always been someone that you just tell me what to do and I do it. I grew up being told we're Republicans so I've always been that straight red ticket.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): How do you think that videos like this started showing up in your feed?

VANDERBILT: Well, originally, I was just following like entertainment stuff. But sometime when maybe people started, like, campaigning, I started liking at lot of Trump posts and things that were anti-Biden and the algorithm must have just brought that kind of stuff to me.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): Right before the inauguration, you didn't believe Biden was really going to get sworn in.

VANDERBILT: No. I expected a blackout. I expected the T.V. to go black and nothing to work, and so we wouldn't see anything.

The assumption of what would happen would be that most of the Democratic leaders there, quite a few of the Republican leaders, all the Hollywood elite that attended, they'd all be arrested. The military is going to haul them off. They said that Trump opened back up Guantanamo Bay.

And then the military would run the country and put us in martial law because the left had become too unhinged and they'd be a danger to us. And then Trump would come back when the government was rebuilt. I know it sounds crazy.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): But you believed this.

VANDERBILT: I did. O'SULLIVAN (on camera): And then Biden got sworn in.

VANDERBILT: Yes.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): How did you feel?

VANDERBILT: I was devastated.

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): The belief among QAnon supporters that Biden would not be inaugurated was wrong. Ashley Vanderbilt realized she had bought into a conspiracy theory.

VANDERBILT: Well, I was wrong.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): How do you feel now knowing that you believed all this stuff?

VANDERBILT: It's weird. I think I spent a lot of time this year isolated from everybody, you know. I've just been home a lot. I lost my job last April in 2020 and I was super depressed. And I think, in a way, I probably lost touch with a little bit of reality and that -- almost like common sense. And so, I'm not so much embarrassed for what I believed but, I mean, I feel foolish.

I was stressed out all the time so my home life, like with my 4-year- old, I feel like I definitely had a lot less patience with her. There would just be times where I'd just snap. I would just get so upset with her.

So I've had to apologize to her a lot. I'd be like I'm sorry for just even getting hateful towards you. Like, it is not you, it is me. I've got my own stuff going on.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): I mean, you must be happy that for your daughter's sake you've been able to get out of this.

VANDERBILT: Yes. She needs her mom and I wasn't 100 percent there like I should have been.

[07:55:05]

O'SULLIVAN (voice-over): A spokesperson for TikTok said the company is committed to countering misinformation and content promoting QAnon is not allowed on its platform.

After finding "QAnon Truth" TikTok, Ashley said the only thing that might have pulled her out of it before the inauguration was if Trump spoke out against it.

VANDERBILT: I was the biggest Trump supporter there was. If he would have said something and if he were to just say Q is illegitimate and nothing is real in there, I think some people would leave. Maybe not all the people that are way too far into it, but I think it would have helped a lot.

O'SULLIVAN (on camera): It would have helped you? VANDERBILT: Yes. I thought the world of him, so if he would have said that's not real, I'm not coming back, it is over, I would have believed him.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAMEROTA: Oh my gosh, Donie. Oh my gosh. It is so valuable to have somebody as honest now and sort of now, self-aware as she is to explain how it happens. I think that was very insightful hearing that isolation and depression lead to it, and so do TikTok and YouTube and Facebook. And if that's where you get your information or your news, we're in trouble.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, and I mean what was incredible was here you have a 27-year-old mom in South Carolina and she's able to come out and say I was wrong. And she's able to come out and denounce QAnon for what it is, a crazy conspiracy theory. Yet, there's people in the Republican Party, like Marjorie Taylor Greene, who are members of Congress but are not coming out to do just what this mother is doing.

BERMAN: I've got to say the end there where she said the one thing that could have changed her mind is if the former president had come out and said this is all made up or that QAnon is wrong, which is the opposite of what he said, Donie. I mean, he has come out and said these are good people who just love America. This really puts it on him, in a way.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes and, I mean, Trump is the hero in the QAnon story, right? He is the hero. He's a God-like figure. I mean, Ashley there even said she is a religious person -- she is a Christian. She was wondering at points if she was putting Trump above God.

And what do we see Trump do? We saw him praise QAnon's followers and we saw him engage and retweet many of the accounts that are pushing this conspiracy theory.

CAMEROTA: Another insight that she had where she said basically in my life, you just tell me what to do and I do it. And I think that was also really honest, which is some people are followers.

There are some people who are leaders, there are some people who are followers. That's just true. There's nothing -- no judgment there. But it's followers who are looking to a leader and Donald Trump wasn't giving them real information.

O'SULLIVAN: Yes, and she was extremely candid about her ignorance, frankly. You know, she said I don't watch the news. I don't read newspapers. We've been told for four or five years about the fake news, fake news, fake news.

And now she said that she is -- you know, she reevaluates her politics as she reevaluates her beliefs. She is going to start engaging with journalism.

And actually, after this interview, she posted on her TikTok account -- she's still using TikTok to now spread the message about helping people get out of conspiracy theories. She posted on TikTok, saying I just finished an interview with CNN. When I believed this conspiracy theory, when I was in QAnon, this was the evil news organization that I was most afraid of.

BERMAN: I've got to say, Donie, a big part of that is the fact that she was willing to do it is how great of a reporter you are and how you've approached this from the beginning. You are doing a service to everyone. You're doing a service to truth in your reporting on this. Thank you so much for shining a light on this

CAMEROTA: Our news ambassador, Donie. I totally agree. He can singlehandedly help turn some of this around.

BERMAN: Well, because the former president chose not to, and I think that's really, really a stark revelation there.

CAMEROTA: And NEW DAY continues right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Today we must never forget, and it's a day the officer's family will never forget.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He's just inherently so empathic. These Capitol Police officers were a part of his life for so many years.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: An officer is murdered, close to 100 officers injured. It is so incumbent on leaders to call out these dark, divisive conspiracies.

GEORGE CONWAY, FOUNDER, LINCOLN PROJECT: I think we are watching the moral collapse of the Republican Party. This is a product of four years of people being silent about Donald Trump.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I don't think Ms. Greene should lose her committee assignments.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I think Marjorie Greene is going to be gone -- kicked of her committees.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

CAMEROTA: Good morning, everyone. Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY.

He gave his life defending the U.S. Capitol. This morning, the remains of fallen U.S. Capitol Police Officer Brian Sicknick lie in honor inside the building where he was killed four weeks ago during the insurrection. This morning, U.S. Capitol Police officers and members of Congress.