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Soon the House Votes on Removing GOP Rep. Greene From Committees; Democrats Ask Trump to Testify Under Oath at Impeachment Trial; Voting Tech Company Files $2.7 Billion Lawsuit Against Fox, Trump Allies; New Cases Continue to Decline Across U.S. as Death Toll Tops 450,000. Aired 3:30-4p ET

Aired February 04, 2021 - 15:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[15:30:00]

BROOKE BALDWIN, CNN HOST: And Democrats do have the simple majority which is all they need, so to be continued gentlemen. Bill and Charlie thank you both so much for taking that through with me. We'll talk about it tomorrow. I'm sure.

Still ahead here, Democrats ask former President Trump to testify under oath in his second impeachment trial. Can they actually force him to comply?

Plus, a voting technology company filing a $2.7 billion lawsuit against Trump allies, Fox News, Rudy Giuliani, and Sidney Powell over what it calls a disinformation campaign against its products.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:35:00]

BALDWIN: We continue to follow some breaking news. House impeachment managers are asking former President Trump to testify under oath before or during his upcoming Senate impeachment trial. And that trial is expected to begin next Tuesday.

So far, we have yet to hear from the former president himself. The article of impeachment accuses Trump of inciting that deadly January 6th insurrection on the U.S. Capitol.

CNN legal analyst and former U.S. Ambassador Norm Eisen is with me. Welcome, sir. He is also former impeachment counsel for House Democrats during President Trump's first trial.

And the one and only Dana Bash is back. So Dana, let me start with you. What are the chances he actually shows up and testifies?

DANA BASH, CNN CHIEF POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I wouldn't say they're very high, Brooke. But this is -- and Norm can speak to this as a strategic idea. But this is a point that the House managers are trying to make. They're trying to make, and they say in the letter that what the former president's attorneys gave them was a lot of the facts that they played out don't comply with reality.

And so what they are trying to show in asking the former president to come testify that that is the case. You know, there's no threat of a subpoena in this letter, and even if they did threaten to subpoena him, and even if they did send a subpoena, you know, it would quickly go to -- or at least it would ultimately go to the Supreme Court, and that would be a decision, a precedent-setting decision that the Supreme Court would have to make.

It seems to me that they're trying to make a point, but I'm curious what --

BALDWIN: Yes, yes, no, you read my mind. Let me read the point in the letter. So the impeachment managers -- Mr. Ambassador, for you -- in the letter they say that if Trump refuses to testify, that they can argue that his refusal, quote, supports a strong adverse inference regarding his actions and inaction on January 6th, 2021.

So, if Trump refuses to testify, they then can fold that into their prosecution against him. And if he does show up -- well, we know that Trump struggles with the truth. Norm Eisen, is this an effective strategy for the prosecution?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: Brooke, thanks for having me back. It is an effective strategy for the House managers. Trump put in an answer that was chock-full of lies. He claims that there are legitimate suspicions about the election and that that was the basis for his statements.

Over 60 courts have thrown those out. He denies that his plain fighting words on January 6th that if you don't fight for your country he said to this angry mob, it'll be taken away from you, that that was about election security.

So his answer that he filed is chock-full of falsehoods. Why not put him on the spot say, hey, you put all these things in issue, come on down and tell us about it. And when he doesn't point to the empty chair, that's what an adverse inference is in the law. If somebody should and can show up to defend themselves and they don't, then we know the conclusion to draw from that silence. So I think it's smart.

BALDWIN: So, to that point, Dana, do you think that'll change hearts and minds for Republican Senators?

BASH: No. It's unlikely that this particular move or, more specifically, the way that the managers are going to play the move the way that they're going to describe it, I don't think that that's going to change very much.

One thing that I do want to note, though, is the part of the attorney's statement for the trial that the ambassador was just talking about, questioning whether or not the election had problems in it and so on and so forth, which of course is the whole basis for the insurrection to begin with, the big lie.

The fact that the president continues to push that and did so up until -- or actually continues to do that right now. That is a big reason why he lost his first legal team over the weekend.

Because I mean, there were some money issues too, but that was also a big, big reason because he was pushing them to argue not just that he shouldn't be convicted of anything having to do with the insurrection. He wanted them to argue the big picture that caused the insurrection to begin with. And they were saying no that's not what we're doing.

BALDWIN: Right. Can you imagine him coming back to what would be the scene of the crime, you know, and repeating those same lies which led to the insurrection?

[15:40:00]

Mr. Ambassador, if the House managers are signaling that they want one witness, might this also signal that there could be other witnesses at the trial?

EISEN: It might. I know these House managers and their team of lawyers. They are some of the most brilliant litigators both in the House and in the country. And part of litigation is the art of surprise. So they have fired, shot across the witness bow asking for Trump. I expect more surprises from them.

Remember also, to Dana's last point. It is a tough slog with these Republican Senators. I think that is shameful cowardice on their part. They were the ones who were held hostage by the mob Trump knowingly incited.

But the managers and their lawyers are not just arguing to those 17 Republicans that they need to pick up in the Senate. They are taking their case to the American people. And I think we're going to see an extravaganza next week. I worked side by side with these folks.

The full story has not been told. So I look forward to seeing what other surprises like today's surprise --

BALDWIN: What do you mean by that, what do you mean by that, the full story hasn't been told?

EISEN: Nobody has put together -- it's going to be like an HBO mini- series, Brooke. Nobody has put together all the video, all the stories, all the horror, tied it to Trump's behavior, not just on January 6th. He incited this mob for months. Of course if you tell people you lie to them that their democracy has been stolen, that the election has been stolen, their patriotic impulses are going to be excited. He tricked people. He inflamed the mob, put that whole story together.

They've done it on paper, the House managers have done it on paper in their brief. Now they're going to bring it to life. And that will be an eye-opener. The Senators are tough, but the American people are going to see just how bad Trump's conduct was. And that is the ultimate jury for this impeachment trial.

BALDWIN: We'll be watching all the special coverage all next week. Dana, I'm sure you'll be up there front and center. Just quickly, what's the one thing you'll really be watching for?

BASH: Just how these Senators, and I know we're probably not going to see their reaction, but, you know, talking to them in the breaks. You know, how they react to what the ambassador was just talking about. A reminder that they're not just jurors, that they are victims of this, and they are going to be doing this as we have said on your show before, Brooke, on the scene of the crime, at the scene of the crime.

And so just the big picture of all of that, how rich and horrifying it all is all at the same time will be really remarkable.

BALDWIN: It all starts next Tuesday. Dana, Ambassador Eisen, thank you both.

BASH: Thank you.

EISEN: Thank you.

BALDWIN: More breaking news now. A voting technology company says enough, filing a $2.7 billion lawsuit naming Fox News and Trump allies. We have those details next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:45:00]

BALDWIN: Smartmatic. It's this voting technology company, they have filed a $2.7 billion lawsuit against Fox News and pro-Trump attorneys Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

At the heart of this suit is this, the allegation that the network and these two lawyers waged a campaign of disinformation that has jeopardized the company's survival.

CNN's senior media reporter Oliver Darcy is following all the details today. And, Oliver, just walk us through the lawsuit and what it could mean for Fox.

OLIVER DARCY, CNN SENIOR MEDIA REPORTER: Yes, Brooke. This is a big, big lawsuit, $2.7 billion big. As you mentioned Smartmatic, which is this voting technology company. It's filed this lawsuit against Fox News. It's identified some of its hosts, Lou Dobbs, Maria Bartiromo, Jeannine Piro in it and it's also suing pro-Trump attorneys Rudy Giuliani and Sidney Powell.

And the lawsuit's alleging that they all worked together on a disinformation campaign that targeted this business and has now endangered it. It's endangered its very survival according to the lawsuit. And so they're seeking damages.

They say that they are forecasted to lose hundreds of millions of dollars in the next few years because their name has been tainted. According to the lawsuit, you know, they argue that Fox had a financial interest to pursue pro-Trump conspiracy theories, falsely saying that the election was stolen.

And the lawsuit argues that to do this they needed a villain. I'll read from part of the lawsuit actually right now. It says --

They needed a villain. They needed someone to blame. They needed someone who they could get others to hate. A story of good versus evil, the type that would incite an angry mob only works if the storyteller provides the audience with someone who personifies evil.

I should note, Brooke, that we have reached out to Fox. And they are saying they are going to defend this lawsuit. They're calling it meritless. Sidney Powell is calling it a political maneuver. And, strangely enough, Rudy Giuliani is saying he looks forward to discovery in this case.

BALDWIN: Interesting. We do know that Fox did run some corrections on their network about the Smartmatic claims. Will that help them you think in their defense?

DARCY: It's actually really interesting, so Smartmatic, a couple months ago they issued a legal notice to Fox News saying basically please retract your claims right now.

[15:50:00]

And after that -- after that legal notice Fox ran this really surreal segment on some of the programs basically debunking everything that their hosts had been telling viewers for weeks and weeks and weeks.

Smartmatic is now pointing to that segment saying, look, you know, the voting technology expert you interviewed in that segment who debunked your claims was always available to you. These experts were not hiding out there. Like you could have interviewed them, and they could have debunked and told your viewers the truth.

But because you didn't, it basically shows you were not interested in telling the truth. You were interested in feeding this audience something it wanted. These pro-Trump conspiracy theories. So they're actually using Fox's fact check, interestingly enough, against the network in this lawsuit.

BALDWIN: How about that. Oliver Darcy, thank you.

DARCY: Thank you.

BALDWIN: A new warning from a top health official. The U.K. variant is like a category 5 hurricane brewing off the U.S. coast. The race to vaccinate more Americans next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[15:55:00]

BALDWIN: New coronavirus infections are still dropping across the country, but the number of people getting sick remains high. More than 450,000 have died, and now that variant out of the U.K. that's spreading across the U.S. turns out it may be deadlier than first thought. President Biden's plan to partner with retail pharmacies to mass

vaccinate millions of Americans begins next week. As the battle over reopening schools intensifies. Amid a new study that says rapid testing can cut infections in schools by 50 percent. The White House says getting students back in the classroom is high on the president's list.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JEN PSAKI, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: The president believes schools should be open. Teachers want schools to be open. Families want schools to be open. But we want to do it safely. And I'm not sure that any parent in this country would disagree with wanting their kids to go to school in a safe environment, where there's ventilation, where proper precautions are taken, whether it's masks or social distance distancing, and that's his priority.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BALDWIN: CNN's Lucy Cavanaugh has more on today's headlines.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

LUCY CAVANAUGH, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Across the nation a story of worry and also hope. First, growing fears about a new COVID-19 surge. With new questions about the faster-spreading variant first identified in the U.K. Is it more deadly?

DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: There's increasing data that suggests that some of the variants, the B117 variant, may actually be increase -- lead to increased mortality and the jury is still out with regard to how these vaccines are going to work with regard against these variants.

CAVANAUGH (voice over): And could it become the dominant variant in hot spots like Florida and California? Health experts warning the new strains could cause a major surge in new cases.

MICHAEL OSTERHOLM, DIRECTOR, CENTER FOR INFECTIOUS DISEASES RESEARCH AND POLICY, UNIVERSITY OF MINNESOTA: We want to get as many people vaccinated as possible, yes, that's important. But the bottom line is, it's going to take much more than vaccine to keep this variant at bay and not to have potentially a major surge in just the weeks ahead.

CAVANAUGH (voice over): Now is not the time to ditch your mask.

DR. RICARDO FRANCO, INFECTIOUS DISEASES SPECIALIST, UNIVERSITY OF ALABAMA AT BIRMINGHAM: I think this game is at halftime. We got off of the deficit. We tied the game at halftime. And we need to keep pushing and not give this virus a chance to play well the second half.

CAVANAUGH (voice over): After months of darkness, finally a glimmer of light. New cases continuing to decline across the nation, 41 states showing downward trends. eight holding steady. The pace of vaccinations on the rise since mid-January. The U.S. now administering an average of 1.32 million vaccine doses a day, but that still might not be fast enough.

DR. MARK MCCLELLAN, DIRECTOR, DUKE MARGOLIS CENTER: We do need to make it go faster, though, to stay ahead of those variant strains and to really help contain the pandemic.

CAVANAUGH (voice over): The pandemic remains as deadly as ever. The U.S. averaging more than 3,000 deaths a day. The CDC predicting more than half a million could die of COVID-19 by the end of the month. That would amount to one death for every minute of the pandemic.

The Biden administration is looking to open 100 federal vaccination sites across the country, the first two expected to serve underprivileged communities in California.

GOV. GAVIN NEWSOM (D-CA): California will be launching not just this site here in Oakland but also a site down in Los Angeles at Cal State L.A.

CAVANAUGH (voice over): Though shots of hope could soon be coming to your local pharmacy. The White House partnering with 21 national chains to ship vaccines directly to select stores.

CROWD: Schools aren't safe! Schools aren't safe!

CAVANAUGH (voice over): Meanwhile, the fight over reopening schools continues.

NEWSOM: What we believe is exactly what the CDC, Dr. Fauci, what the Biden administration believes, that we can safely reopen schools.

CROWD: Open schools now!

CAVANAUGH (voice over): California's governor pushing for students to return to in-person learning before all teachers are vaccinated. The City of San Francisco suing its school district and board to force schools to reopen. While the new study found that weekly rapid tests for teachers, students, and staff, could cut infection rates by 50 percent.

DR. JONATHAN REINER, CNN MEDICAL ANALYST: It doesn't matter how much the data suggests that they can be made safe. They don't feel safe. We have the ability to vaccinate them so let's just vaccinate them.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

CAVANAUGH (on camera): So, masks are going to continue to play a critical role in curbing the spread of COVID-19. Especially with those deadlier strains out there.

And we learned today that the White House is reportedly looking at coordinating direct shipments of masks to Americans. That's according to sources familiar with a Biden administration's coronavirus response plan.

But in a briefing earlier today, the White House spokeswoman said those plans have not been finalized. The costs and the logistics would certainly be complicated -- Brooke.

BALDWIN: Lucy Cavanaugh out there in Denver, Lucy, thank you so much.

I'm Brooke Baldwin here in New York. Thank you for being with me. We'll see you back here tomorrow.