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New Day

Rep. Kevin McCarthy (R-CA) Refuses to Punish Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene (R-GA) for Conspiracies and Violent Comments; Rep. Liz Cheney (R-WY) to Keep GOP Leadership Role, Defends Impeachment Vote; Congressional Staffers Recount Experience During Capitol Attack. Aired 7-7:30a ET

Aired February 04, 2021 - 07:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN NEW DAY: We all need to take to show us how careful we all need to be.

[07:00:02]

Andy Scholes, thank you very much.

New Day continues right now.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN NEW DAY: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is New Day.

And House Democrats today plan to strip Marjorie Taylor Greene of her committee assignments. The vote will force Republicans to go on the record to either publicly support or rebuke this controversial QAnon supporter in their midst.

There was a high-stakes meeting of House Republicans last night and Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy declined to take any action against Greene, though she has never publicly apologized or recanted for supporting the execution of top Democrats, she's never backed down from any of her violent rhetoric.

But it was Liz Cheney whose fate was uncertain last night. The number three Republican managed to keep her spot in leadership surviving calls to oust her for voting to impeach Donald Trump.

BERMAN: So, overnight, the House Republican leader, Kevin McCarthy, also claimed he did not know what QAnon is. You might want to ask Kevin McCarthy, who knew exactly what it was in August. You could also ask his political idol, the former president, whom he honored just last week. The former president thinks QAnon is just people who love America.

Worth noting that Marjorie Taylor Greene has bragged about recent conversations with the former president as well and claims his full support.

CNN's Lauren Fox live on Capitol Hill. Lauren, take us inside this dramatic Republican meeting. LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, it lasted more than four hours, John. And I think one of the most remarkable pieces of this meeting was it really had to do with Liz Cheney, the number three Republican, a member of leadership, who really heard quite a few complaints from members who were frustrated with the fact that she voted to impeach former President Donald Trump.

Now, one of the biggest questions that we have seen is, what was going to happen to Marjorie Taylor Greene in this meeting? We now know that she apologized privately to her colleagues, just saying, essentially, that her former public media posts were not who she was. They were not representative of who she was. We should note that she has not publicly apologized for those comments.

Here was Kevin McCarthy talking about her statement during that conference meeting.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): She said she was wrong. She has reached out in other ways and forms.

I think everybody should hear that. And she has expressed that she has put it out from news agencies and others. I think it would be helpful if you could hear exactly what she told all of us, denouncing QAnon. I don't know if I say it right. I don't even know what it is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

FOX: And we should note that McCarthy back in August did know what QAnon was. He said that he didn't support the ideas and they didn't have a play in the Republican Party.

Now, moving forward, there is going to be a vote today on the House floor, where lawmakers tonight on the Democratic side and Republican side are going to have to decide about whether or not they think that Marjorie Taylor Greene should keep her committee assignments.

We expect that she's going to be kicked off both the Budget and the Education Committee, but, look, this is a tough vote for Republicans. They're going to have to walk the plank, in part, because McCarthy didn't make a call on her own to pull her from those committees.

This was a moment where Steny Hoyer thought it was an important thing that Democrats took this step but it's setting an interesting precedent, because it's never been the case that members vote to kick members off committees. Instead, what usually happens is your leadership makes that decision. That's not what's happening here. John and Alisyn?

CAMEROTA: Yes, a lot of unprecedented things happening lately. Thank you very much, Lauren.

Joining us now to talk about this, we have two former Republican Congressmen and CNN Commentators, Mike Rogers and Charlie Dent. Great to see both of you. Congressman Dent, why should we believe that Kevin McCarthy that Marjorie Taylor Greene apologized? She's never done that publicly. In fact, just two days ago, when she was given an opportunity to do so on a radio show, I will quote her, she said, I don't think I have anything to apologize for. For looking things up on the internet and saying things about it on Facebook? Big deal.

She has been proudly unrepentant about her violent rhetoric.

[07:05:04]

And just to remind people of what she said, she went on -- one of the things, I mean, there are so many we can choose from. But one of them was online, on social media, when somebody said, why don't we hang Hillary Clinton and President Obama? She said, the stage is being set. This will have to be done very carefully so, you know, liberal judges don't throw it out.

That's just one of them.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Alisyn, once upon a time, and not so long ago, members resigned when they became an embarrassment or a distraction. And if they didn't resign, the leadership forced them to resign. In fact, just before coming on this program, I just put together a list of 11 members of Congress during my tenure who resigned because of some kind of a scandal or problem.

And what should have happened here should have happened back in the summertime. They should have denounced her in the primary. And they should have told her she's not welcome in the conference or on the committees and that they will work to defeat her in a primary should she win. That's how they should be dealing with this situation.

The fact that the leadership has basically punted and said, okay, we'll let the Democrats do this, well, it's just a failure, frankly. And now the precedent that Lauren just described is real. Now, we're going to have a situation where the Democrats are going to kick a Republican off the committee. That's not ideal. It should have happened the other way.

I mean, this is just so terrible for the Republican Party. This woman, Taylor Greene, is a blight on the party and she is going to cause problems for so many of these members. And the members would have liked leadership to deal with this thing. Get her out. They want her gone. It's that simple.

BERMAN: Let me take a quick poll, yes or no. First, to you, Charlie, would you vote today in the full House to vote to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee? Yes or no?

DENT: Yes.

BERMAN: Chairman Rogers, would you vote today yes or no to remove Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committees?

MIKE ROGERS, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: I would vote yes. I'm sad that it came to this, but I think this is the only outlet that you have. This to me was an absolute failure of leadership, John. This should have been worked out, the leader should have worked it out. Once the speaker was driving down this lane, this is something the two leaders should have sat down, worked out, where she didn't sit on a committee.

And it's maddening to me that this is going to happen today. It's going to look like more political polarization in the country. All of those things are going to be on full display. And this is just -- Congress is broken right now. And to me, this is the greatest example. Her comments were repugnant. She really is not a Republican and doesn't deserve to sit in the Republican conference.

And so when you have other leaders, senior leaders saying she's a cancer on the party, you know, there's as an FBI guy, we'd say, hey, that's a clue. I mean, this is not where the direction of the Republican Party is going to go. I'm an optimist there. And I think today is just going to be that first sign.

By the way, keeping Liz Cheney, good, this is a good sign. That's a -- I feel a little better. It's like watching a heroin addict go through withdrawals. Right now, we've had that first day and it looks like we'll get to a better place and a better day for Republican principles, which is really important for the country.

CAMEROTA: They're going to need a bigger tent. I mean, I know that that's the goal of Kevin McCarthy, but at the moment, trying to keep both of those factions seems complicated at the moment.

But, Charlie, look, when -- what we've noticed is that when Republicans don't want to have to condemn the character of someone or the behavior of someone in their party, they use the refuge of process. Well, I don't like this process, I don't like what Democrats are going to do. This is going to set a precedent.

I was struck by what Congressman Jim mcGovern, Democrat of Massachusetts, said. He said, yes, here is the new precedent. A member of the House is calling for assassinations. That's the new bar. So, like, the Republicans can say like, uh-oh, tables are going to be turned. Okay, when Democrats call for assassinating the leaders of the other party, then Republicans can remove them also.

DENT: Well, let's face it, since the Trump era, the standards bar has been set so low, that it seems that almost anything goes. It's really very sad that that's the state of affairs. And when you can't argue substance, you always argue process. Substantively, there really is no defense for 9/11, trutherism, birtherism and all the anti-Semitic comments, the horrible comments about the Sandy Hook shooting. I mean, there's no defense for this.

And so she has become such a terrible distraction. That's why I get back to this issue of leadership ordinarily. I mean, I remember when John Boehner would call somebody into the office who was an embarrassment or a distraction and he says, it's true. The other would say, yes. And you know what, see that letter on the desk, that's your resignation letter. Why don't you sign it? I mean, that's what leadership would do. And that's what needed to happen here.

[07:10:00]

Now it's going to be a spectacle on the floor today. Precedents are going to be set, and a lot of screaming about process and precedent. But, hey, that's where we are. If you don't want to enforce standards, it comes to this.

BERMAN: Tim Alberta noted overnight, with Boehner, there was a huge uproar overnight. I think it was 17 Republicans suggested that they wanted to boot Boehner from the speakership or from leadership. And now 61 says Liz Cheney. I know she won by a landslide but 61 is still a lot of votes.

Chairman Rogers, I want to ask you that something that goes a little bit beyond politics because of your FBI experience as well. Kevin McCarthy, just speaking about QAnon, this conspiracy group that has just put out hateful ideas, hateful ideas that we saw contribute to the siege of the U.S. Capitol. Just listen to what Kevin McCarthy said about QAnon overnight. And I want to remind people what he said about it before. So listen.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MCCARTHY: I think it would be helpful if you could hear exactly what she told all of us. Denouncing QAnon, I don't know if I say it right, I don't even know what it is.

There is no play for QAnon in the Republican Party. I do not support it.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So when the leader of the Republican Party says, I don't even know what QAnon is, dismisses it, even as he says some other things, as well, again, your experience in the FBI, extremist groups, people inside organizations look this, what do they hear when someone like Kevin McCarthy says that?

ROGERS: Well, here's the problem. Everybody should know what this group is. And if you're a Republican, you need to understand that this group is trying to latch on your leg and gain a platform in the -- in politics in the United States that elevates them from the gutter of which they come.

And so it's really important that you do know who they are and you push back on those hateful ideas. Remember, this is a group -- again, these weren't Republicans before Trump, during Trump, or after Trump. They're not Republicans now, but they're going to try to latch on anywhere that they think they can get a platform to communicate their crazy ideas.

And so every Republican should come out and condemn this, but so should Democrats. They should do it as well. And this is a new standard, hateful speech across Congress of both parties should be the standard anyway, we shouldn't even have this debate. I don't know why this is a debate, that we talk like this. These people are pitching violence against our political system.

People need to understand, that's a serious, serious thing, because it will attract people who are outside of that circle even to think, hey, it's okay, violence is okay. Even after the attack on the Capitol, some of these members were saying, this was a success. This was good. We can disrupt American politics in the way that we think this QAnon group thinks is appropriate.

That's why it's so dangerous. And that's why you have to make a statement today. If this was, again, failure of leadership, shouldn't come to a vote on the House floor. But now that's where we're at. So that statement should be very loud and very clear.

CAMEROTA: I mean, the problem is they've gained more than a foothold or a toehold at this point. They have a vessel now in Congress, Marjorie Taylor Greene. QAnon has a representative in Congress.

But I hear you, Mike Rogers and Charlie Dent. Thank you both very much for the perspective and all the expertise, as always.

ROGERS: Thanks, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: So Donald Trump's grip on the GOP is not letting up, weeks after he was voted out of office. Maggie Haberman joins us with her new reporting, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:15:00]

BERMAN: The former president wanted revenge on Liz Cheney for voting to impeach him. He didn't get it last night. The former president has supported Marjorie Taylor Greene in a recent phone call, according to her. So he got what he wanted there. What does this tell us about his grip on the Republican Party?

Joining us now, CNN Political Analyst Maggie Haberman, she's a Washington Correspondent for The New York Times. Good morning, Maggie.

I would like to split this into parts, if I can, starting with the Liz Cheney thing because that's an area where the president has been active behind the scenes, trying to get revenge on Liz Cheney for her vote and her statements to impeach him. Matt Gaetz went out to Wyoming to campaign against her. Donald Trump Jr. called to that. Do you know how the former president feels this morning about how that went, the effort to oust her that failed?

MAGGIE HABERMAN, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Look, the former president, as you know, John, prefers instant gratification. He would have rather had seen her lose that vote. And certainly, his ally, Matt Gaetz, was talking a very big game about the idea that they had the votes, the anti-Cheney forces to get rid of her from her leadership post yesterday. That didn't happen. Although it is worth noting that this vote was taken in support of her by secret ballot. So people have not been willing to buck the former president publicly but they were willing to do it when people wouldn't know what they were doing.

So now, where the former president and his allies turn to is defeating Liz Cheney in Wyoming, where they believe, and, remember, a Trump ally pollster, John McLaughlin, did a poll not very long ago, showing that Liz Cheney, even if it's within the lane of right, showing that Liz Cheney does have a problem in her district.

So I think you're going to see this fight by the former president and his associates move to her actual district. They believe that she is very vulnerable. They are going to either look for somebody to run against her or they're going to try to make it very hard for her to seek re-election. We'll see how effective they are at the latter.

CAMEROTA: And what about Marjorie Taylor Greene? Because, obviously, she would not have survived, I think, had she not had former President Trump's support. But it seems like from the things he says, Maggie, I'm interested in your interpretation, that he thinks she's kind of crazy.

HABERMAN: So it's funny you said that. Look, the former president often likes to entertain people who he then disparages as off in some other context, witness Sidney Powell, the attorney who had been working for him for a time but who he had no problem being dismissive of with his aides at various points, at other times, entertaining what she was telling him and considering hiring her to the White House.

[07:20:01]

I think that you can put Marjorie Taylor Greene in the same category where he does think that she is out there, but he likes, and you know this well, when it comes down to what he sees as, quote/unquote, the fight, somebody who is willing to take the fight to elites or to his enemies. And he is willing to ignore the conspiracy theories and the anti-Semitism and the racism in order to see that.

But, remember, he has not really out there saying this himself, Alisyn. She's saying it. Marjorie Taylor Greene is saying, I spoke to him, and I have no reason to doubt that she did. But Donald Trump may something different when he gets asked about it, as he has often done.

BERMAN: Alisyn, you said something interesting before break. You said that QAnon has a vessel in the Congress right now with Marjorie Taylor Greene. But to an extent, didn't they have a vessel in the White House? And, Maggie, I say that because of the public comments that the former president made about QAnon, where he said, basically, he thinks they're just people who love America, right?

HABERMAN: Right. He also in a private meeting reported by Jonathan Swan in Axios described them as people who really favor good government. Dan Scavino, the digital director at the White House and deputy chief of staff, was posting what can only be described as winks and nods to QAnon at various points on his account on Twitter or on Instagram or on Facebook.

When you do that, there is a consequence. There are people who take these signals seriously. This is obviously a large group of people at this point who were enjoying this conspiracy theory and conspiracy theories are very appealing to people, because it means they themselves are not responsible for things that happen in their lives.

And so I think that you're absolutely right. It's not as if Marjorie Taylor Greene is the root and branch here, where if she gets ripped out, this is all going to go away. Until the former president says very explicitly this is not real, you are going to continue seeing this.

CAMEROTA: Yes. One consequence of being all in on QAnon is a deadly insurrection at the U.S. Capitol. I mean, it follows directly from the conspiracy theories.

And so, to hear Kevin McCarthy last night claim not to know what it is, have they forgotten that they hid for their lives on January 6th? Have they forgotten that people showed up at the Capitol with big Qs on their T-shirts and holding flags?

HABERMAN: Right. Look, McCarthy is getting squeezed by every direction. McCarthy wants to be speaker in 2022. That would require retaking the House from Democrats. I am not, in any way, excusing what he's saying, but I am saying that he is playing a pretty cold, calculated political game where he doesn't want to offend -- he is trying to please everybody and he has now ended up in this very middle spot where he is not really pleasing anybody except perhaps Marjorie Taylor Greene, and Liz Cheney in the sense that she did not get taken out last night. I do think that was heartening to Cheney and to people around Cheney. But I think this is going to be a tough line for McCarthy to walk for another 18 months.

BERMAN: It's interesting to watch how the White House is handling this and President Biden, keeping this at a distance. And to an extent, this does provide, or what kind of opportunity do you think this provides to them to focus on other things or to look like adults, in a way?

HABERMAN: Look, I think a big one, John. Look, I mean, I think that the complication of impeachment, I think, has been something that has -- I don't know that it's vexed the White House, but certainly they've been okay keeping it at a distance, even though the president said he believes it has to happen.

But I do think that having this be something that is taking place separate from them allows them to focus on the work in front of them, allows them to focus on executive orders or on passing legislation and look as if they are sort of trying to have a more constructive way forward, as Democrats are arguing with their Republican counterparts about where Marjorie Taylor Greene sits on committees.

BERMAN: There is a kind of triangulation going on right now. And it gets to the sort of long game that Biden has played for a long time, in the campaign first and now in the presidency. He's undefeated in it over the last year. We'll see if it continues in that sense trying to stay above the fray.

Maggie Haberman, thanks so much for being with us.

HABERMAN: Thank you.

BERMAN: Not just members of Congress who were in danger during the Capitol insurrection. Congressional staffers, so many people who go to work at the Capitol every day were also at risk. We're going to speak to some Capitol staff about what they went through, next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

[07:25:00]

CAMEROTA: Nearly 400 House and Senate staffers say they were traumatized during the Capitol insurrection. Now, they're urging senators to keep them in mind as they decide Donald Trump's fate. The staffers just released a letter saying in part, quote, as congressional employees, we don't have a vote on whether to convict Donald J. Trump for his role in inciting the violent attack at the Capitol. But our senators do. And for our sake, and the sake of the country, we ask that they vote to convict the former president and bar him from ever holding office again.

Joining us now are two of those staffers, Sara Guerrero, the press secretary to Democratic Congresswoman Sylvia Garcia, and Remmington Bellford, the communications director to Democratic Congresswoman Yvette Clark. Great to see both of you this morning.

I just want to read another little portion of your letter that I think really gets to the heart of what you went through.

So here is the portion. It says, quote, as the mob smashed through Capitol police barricades, broke doors and windows, and charged into the Capitol with body armor and weapons, many of us hid behind chairs and under desks or barricaded ourselves in offices. Others watched on T.V. and frantically tried to reach bosses and colleagues as they fled for their lives.

Sara, why did you think it was necessary to write this letter?

SARA GUERRERO (D), PRESS SECRETARY TO REP. SYLVIA GARCIA: Thank you so much, Alisyn. I think that it's absolutely paramount that we make clear that we are people too and that this trauma, again, has no party.

[07:30:07]