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House Removes Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene from Committees; Trump Rejects Request to Testify at Second Impeachment Trial; Voting Company Files $2.7 Billion Suit Against FOX News, Giuliani. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired February 05, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

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UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The resolution is adopted.

[06:00:25]

REP. MARJORIE TAYLOR GREENE (D-GA): I was allowed to believe things that weren't true, and I would ask questions about them. And that is absolutely what I regret.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (D-CA): What she said was before she was a member of Congress. It's unprecedented what the Democrats have done here.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: There should be a very, very high bar for removing somebody from committee, but this was not a hard call.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We've requested the president's testimony. Apparently, he is refusing.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They could issue a subpoena for the president. He'll go to court. He'll tie that up in knots.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his four years in office, Donald Trump never once testified under oath. And now I think they're showing that Donald Trump is not willing to back up his bluster.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: We want to welcome our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY. It is Friday, February 5, 6 a.m. here in New York.

Republican Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene has been stripped of her committee assignments. On Thursday night, she was rebuked for peddling dangerous conspiracy theories.

But the overwhelming majority of House Republicans voted not to remove her. A hundred and ninety-nine Republicans were apparently just fine with her extremist, violent rhetoric that she has never apologized for. Only 11 Republicans sided with the Democrats to remove her. Just a reminder, Greene questioned the 9/11 attacks. She harassed a

school shooting survivor. She spread anti-Semitic conspiracies. And she supported Nancy Pelosi, Barack Obama, and Hillary Clinton being assassinated.

Finally on Thursday, Greene admitted that QAnon conspiracies are, quote, "lies." But she made the argument that somehow her mind was controlled and she was made to believe these things. Quote, "allowed to believe things" that were not true.

BERMAN: "Allowed to believe things that weren't true." that's a master class in deflection. What even is that?

I was allowed to drive 115 miles per hour. I was allowed to break and enter into your house and steal all your stuff. I was allowed to lie, lie, lie, lie, lie, lie. Shame on everyone but me for that. I can't believe you all let me do that. Why did you let me peddle the idea of Jewish space lasers?

Meanwhile, some major maneuvering before the former president's impeachment trial. In a surprise move, House managers asked him to testify. He refused.

And this morning, there are a number of new questions about whether they will issue a subpoena for him and what they plan to do about other witnesses.

It is just days before this trial begins, and there is so much we do not know about how it will proceed. More on that shortly.

First, Marjorie Taylor Greene, a member without a committee, but with a party. Lauren FOX joins us live from Capitol Hill. Lauren?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, John.

That's right. An historic vote yesterday in the House of Representatives. Democrats taking this unprecedented step of holding a vote in order to strip Marjorie Taylor Greene from her two committee assignments.

Now, this was a moment where Greene went down to the floor and tried to plead her case. She denounced some of her past comments, but she didn't really apologize.

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FOX (voice-over): On Capitol Hill, a strong statement from House Democrats this morning, voting to remove freshman Congresswoman Marjorie Taylor Greene from the Education and Labor and Budget Committees.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): The line in the sand has to be the promotion and elevation of violence directed at your colleagues or other Americans.

FOX: The decision after Greene's last-minute efforts to save her assignments.

GREENE: I never said any of these things since I have been elected for Congress. These were words of the past.

FOX: Speaking for over ten minutes, attempting to walk back hateful comments and conspiracy theories she promoted before running for office.

GREENE: There's never any evidence shown for a plane in the Pentagon.

I also want to tell you 9/11 absolutely happened.

Who pays for this? Who sponsors this? March for Our Lives?

You see, school shootings are absolutely real.

FOX: The Georgia lawmaker also making this claim about her belief in QAnon.

GREENE: In 2018, when I started finding misinformation, lies, things that were not true in these QAnon posts, I stopped believing it.

FOX: But in December, after being elected, Greene defended QAnon supporters in an interview with CNN.

GREENE: I don't think there's anything wrong with people looking up information and not believing things in the news, like the Russian collusion-conspiracy lie.

FOX: House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer using a giant picture of a Facebook post, with Greene holding an AR-15 next to a picture of members of the so-called Squad.

REP. STENY HOYER (D-MD): I've heard too much of process and not enough about accountability. No member ought to be permitted to engage in the kind of behavior that Representative Greene has and face zero consequences.

[06:05:11]

FOX: Following hours of debate on the House floor --

REP. JIM JORDAN (R-OH): So who's next? Who will the cancel culture attack next?

REP. TED DEUTCH (D-FL): Conspiracy theories and hate are malignant. They do not fade away. We must stand up to them and say enough.

FOX: Eleven House Republicans joined Democrats in voting to remove Greene from her committees. Most, like House Minority Leader Kevin McCarthy, deciding against punishing their colleague.

MCCARTHY: This partisan power grab is not only cynical. It's hypocritical.

FOX: The House vote, just one day after McCarthy and the House GOP declined to take action against Greene in a private meeting with party members.

REP. KATIE PORTER (D-CA): I wished they'd come to the right conclusion, though, which is that they need to stop enabling and repeating lies.

FOX: On Thursday morning, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi saying she's not concerned about the precedent Democrats may be setting for wanting to remove a sitting Republican member from her assignments.

REP. NANCY PELOSI (D-CA): If any of our members threaten the safety of other members, we'd be the first ones to take them off of a committee. That's it.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: And some breaking news from the U.S. Senate. Just minutes ago, the Senate breaking a tie, a 50/50 tie by Vice President Kamala Harris, passing their budget resolution. This essentially unlocks their ability to start writing that COVID relief bill and pass it with just 51 votes. A long road ahead.

And we should note that this vote came after 15 straight hours of amendment votes. I saw senators leaving in the rain. They're absolutely exhausted after that marathon budget vote-o-rama -- Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, the vote-a-rama lasted all night. That almost passes for fun. That's how it is.

BERMAN: I saw senators leaving in the rain is, like, the best Donna Summer lyric ever. Were you at MacArthur Park when you were looking at that? All right.

CAMEROTA: All right.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst, Margaret Talev. She's the managing editor of Axios. And CNN political commentator and former Republican Congressman Charlie Dent. He's the executive director of the Aspen Institute Congressional Program. Great to see both of you guys.

Charlie, remember -- remember when Republicans used to say they believed in personal responsibility?

You know, Marjorie Taylor Greene yesterday in her explanation, I guess, she took no personal responsibility. She didn't apologize. She tried to suggest that somehow she doesn't have free will. I guess something's controlling her mind. Here is what she said.

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GREENE: I was allowed to believe things that weren't true, and I would ask questions about them and talk about them. And that is absolutely what I regret. Because if it weren't for the Facebook posts and comments that I liked in 2018, I wouldn't be standing here today, and you couldn't point a finger and accuse me of anything wrong.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: So who's controlling her? The almighty "Q"? I mean, I didn't understand this -- I mean, this is what passes for an explanation or an apology nowadays?

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Well, Alisyn, she's -- this is a disgrace. And you know, I was chairman of the Ethics Committee and I was responsible for enforcing standards of conduct. When members brought discredit upon the House, they could be sanctioned.

And in this case, when a member becomes such an embarrassment and such a distraction, and we've had many of these cases. I think I mentioned yesterday, I can remember about 11 resignations. Usually, a member feels shamed, and they end up resigning on their own, or the leadership forces them to resign. That's how these are usually dealt with.

Republicans should have never allowed themselves to be put in this predicament. You know, they should not have -- they should not have allowed the Democrats to do to them -- do to Marjorie Taylor Greene what they should have done themselves. They should have simply taken -- taken on this challenge and just removed her from the committees, kicked her out of the conference, and we wouldn't have set a precedent, we wouldn't have had any other -- you don't need any process arguments.

And by the way, good luck arguing process and precedent if you're a member of Congress defending your vote to allow her to stay on her committees. It's not going to work. Democrats are going to tag Republicans with her. Now they have a recorded vote on the record, defending her. They're going to call them, you know, extremists -- and she's -- they're Marjorie Taylor Greene Republican. It's just a huge error on the part of Republicans.

BERMAN: And Margaret, one of the things that interests me is what happens now going forward. And our friend, Jeff Zeleny, yesterday said something that really stuck with me, which is that Kevin McCarthy now owns Marjorie Taylor Greene.

I mean, Kevin McCarthy has now bought into this completely. And if she does anything -- I mean, if one more post comes out from her, post November 3 -- not that it already isn't a lie what she was saying about disavowing QAnon and all this stuff, but that's on him. I mean, he's got this completely now. And I'm going to tell you, I'm not sure I would want to be the one holding the debt for Marjorie Taylor Greene.

[06:10:03]

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Yes, well, good morning, John.

I think, you know, for the Republican leader, for Kevin McCarthy, this has just been such a quick reversal of fortunes in the number of weeks.

We were writing only a few weeks ago about how he was trying to, you know, put the Republican coalition back in order to win and become House speaker in the next midterms.

And now you see, you know, what underlies all of this is this huge leadership contest pressure on him from two sides. Steve Scalise on one side, Liz Cheney on the other side. And what's the other song? It's not Donna Summer, "Stuck in the Middle with You." This is the position he found himself in and has reacted to it.

But now you're right. This is this vote, this House vote with the Democrats took place because he wouldn't take the action himself internally with his caucus.

I can't tell you how many Republicans in the House are tremendously relieved that she is off of those two important questions. And is not going to be a spokesperson for the party now, but of course, she's still a member of Congress.

And I think, when you look at who -- which of the Republicans cast those votes, there are 11 Republicans, right, who voted with the Democrats. Look at where they're from. These are, in some cases, Republicans who voted for the impeachment of Donald Trump or just swing district Republicans.

These are also Republicans from places like New York and New Jersey and Florida that were at the epicenter of 9/11 or the Parkland shooting. These major, undeniable American tragedies that in her not that long ago past, she really questioned the validity of or scoffed at or went after or made fun of victims in a way that grossly offended the voters in those states.

And so this is a real problem. And she is Kevin McCarthy's problem now.

CAMEROTA: We'll have one of those victims or survivors coming up in the program. David Hogg, who she chased after and harassed. Obviously, a survivor of the Parkland school shooting.

So we just put up the faces and names of the 11 who voted to remove her, Charlie. Josh [SIC] Kinzinger predicted --

BERMAN: Adam Kinzinger.

CAMEROTA: Adam Kinzinger predicted yesterday ten. He got one more than he predicted with you. But nowhere near the number, Charlie, of the Republicans who voted to remove Liz Cheney from leadership. There were 61 of those. And so going forward, what are we to expect? What will we see from the Republican Party? What should we brace for, now that they've really drawn this line in the sand of who they are and who they support?

DENT: Well, the party's in a terrible place. It's in a deep, dark place, actually. And I think you're going to see a rise or a real faction at some point within the party. Clearly, Adam Kinzinger is leading it.

But there's going to be some pushback against these -- these forces that have embraced Trumpism and Trump to such a degree, this cult of personality that manifests itself in the form of Marjorie Taylor Greene today. And I think there's going to be a fight.

And if the -- if that faction I just talked about doesn't prevail, I can see an ultimate fracture within the party, where some center-right voters say, you know, Enough. I can't stay here any longer. This is just too many bridges too far.

So we're in a hell of a bind. Because -- and poor Liz Cheney. I mean, hey, by the way, the good news on the Liz Cheney thing is, these guys said they had 125 votes to take her out of leadership. Well, you know what? Liz Cheney, she called their bluff. She said, OK, let's have a vote. And you know what? They had 60. So she really smoked them.

I mean, I think this is actually a bigger victory than people realize. She put them down. They blustered. They said they were going to take her out, and she beat them by better than a 2-to-1 margin. So good for her. So you know, some people are striking back. This is good.

BERMAN: It was a secret vote. It was a secret vote. I think the celebration could be a little bit more boisterous, Charlie, if people were able to stand behind their votes and not be so afraid of that wing of the party.

Charlie Dent, Margaret Talev, thank you both very much. Don't go far. Much more to discuss.

CAMEROTA: So President Trump is refusing to testify in his second impeachment trial next week. Will he be subpoenaed? Is that a good idea? Do they need him? What about other witnesses? We have all the latest reporting on it, next.

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[06:18:28]

BERMAN: Developing overnight, former President Trump rejected a surprise request from the House impeachment managers to testify at the impeachment trial which begins next week.

Margaret Talev is back with us. Also joining us, Elie Honig. He's a former federal prosecutor.

And Elie, I have to say, when I heard that the House manager sent the letter to request that the former president testify, Oh, my, that's interesting. I never believed, and I'm sure you didn't either, that he would do it, but it's an interesting request. Why do you think they made it? What's your big takeaway?

ELIE HONIG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: John, I think what they're trying to do here is play hardball. I think they're trying to put Donald Trump to his proof, to his claims, to his denials and say, OK, you want to make wild claims about the election. You want to deny responsibility for what you did? Come on in here and tell us about it.

Now, the move now that Donald Trump has said, I'm not going -- I respectfully decline your invitation to come in and testify. If they're really playing hardball here, the tactical move is to issue a subpoena. Because what that does is that puts Donald Trump in a tough position, where he's only got three options.

One, he can comply. He can come in and testify. No lawyer is going to let him do that. That's incredibly risky for Donald Trump.

No. 2, he can try to fight it in the courts. That will cause delay, but he's going to lose. And he might get the one ruling he does not want, which is that this is a constitutional process. That would be devastating.

Or three, he can take the fifth. We know Donald Trump does not want to take the fifth. That would be disastrous, as well.

So we'll see how serious the House impeachment managers are, if they follow up with a subpoena.

CAMEROTA: But Elie, interesting maneuver, right? But do they really want him to testify? I mean, what -- what good would it be, having Donald Trump coming in -- we know what he'd say. He's said it a million times. He was, you know, spout all of the nonsense and the lies again. So why would they want him there?

[06:20:10]

HONIG: If I'm in Representative Jamie Raskin's shoes, yes, I want him to testify. Because as it stands right now, it looks unlikely, not impossible, but unlikely that he will be convicted. You need some sort of dramatic action.

And if Donald Trump comes down to the well of the Senate, the beauty of it is, he doesn't just -- this isn't Twitter. He doesn't just get to say whatever he wants and that's that. He gets cross-examined. Representative Raskin or some member of the House impeachment team would get to confront him with the actual evidence that there was no fraud, that he did lose the election, that he is responsible for what he said January 6.

That could be a game-changing moment. I would want that if I was in their shoes.

BERMAN: What they're going for is the, you know, did you order the Code Red? You're damn right I did. They're looking for that kind of moment.

They're not going to get it, Margaret, largely because Republicans aren't thrilled to have Donald Trump as a witness, but not every Democrats is either. Joe Manchin said he thought it would be a dog- and-pony show. Chris Coons isn't clear it's a good idea.

Democrats, why wouldn't they -- Democratic senators, why wouldn't they want something like this to take place?

TALEV: Nobody thinks that Donald Trump is going to testify. And I don't see Senate Democrats deciding to go ahead and try to force him to do it. Coons is is a decent barometer. He doesn't always speak for President

Biden, but he is a great fan of President Biden, shares the same home state, is in touch with President Biden and his team.

When I heard Chris Coons come out yesterday and say, it would be a disaster, it was additional confirmation, I kind of thought, OK, that's not going to happen.

I mean, there's a couple of reasons. One is, I don't think that they think that they'll get anything much better than the evidence that already exists of what President Trump said that day and what happened.

And even with that evidence, Republicans have made pretty clear, they don't have the appetite to go forward with this.

So when you ask the president to -- former president to show, and his lawyers say, in a fixed statement like that, that's sort of evidence in and of itself, that he had the opportunity to testify. He chose not to. And then they'll just move forward.

You know, I think that is what they were trying to get out of it. I don't expect them to want this to turn into the spectacle that it would. But I do think if President Trump had said that he -- former President Trump had said that he wanted to testify, they would have to let him. If other Republicans or defenders of the president were saying that they wanted to do it, I think the Democrats would have to let him do it.

But now they've made their point, and I think this is just going to go forward without President Trump now.

The question is, is he going to do some kind of counterprogramming? If he were still president, you know we would see a strong response. What will we see from him next week? And will it make any difference whatsoever?

BERMAN: His lawyers are going to lock him in a room. I mean, you know what the lawyers want, which is just to put him as far away from a camera or a keyboard or anything, or human beings, as they possibly can, I would think.

CAMEROTA: OK. I want to move on to this jaw-dropping lawsuit from Smartmatic against FOX and against FOX's personalities. Maria Bartiromo, Rudy Giuliani, FOX News channel, Lou Dobbs, Jeanine Pirro, Sidney Powell.

I think this -- here's my theory, Elie. You tell me if it holds legal water. I think this is a game changer. I think that this -- this is what can move the needle on disinformation. Not removing Marjorie Taylor Greene from a couple of committees. This is what could stamp it out.

The threat of something this huge, a $2.7 billion lawsuit in court, where you have to go and tell the truth, this is finally what gets the peddlers of disinformation, what gets their attention. And so do you think that it has merit? Do you think Smartmatic can win

this case?

HONIG: Yes and yes, Alisyn. And look, money talks. There are big names, you know, FOX News and some of the anchors there, and there are big dollar amounts attached to this.

But this is really sort of a textbook case of defamation. Right? You have to prove that the statements were false. That shouldn't be too difficult. That there was either -- FOX either knew they were false or was reckless about finding out if they were false. So this is a pretty straightforward case, I think.

Not to say Smartmatic is definitely going to win, but FOX has a difficult decision to make here. Do they settle this, which will carry certain implications, or do they go all the way to trial, which is expensive and risky? So this is an area where we could see some real consequences for nontruths.

BERMAN: You know, you talk about how the world will change or is changing. Money does talk. You know, look at WABC Radio. People are having to take into account what the former president and his followers, how they talk, and the legal and financial consequences of what they say.

Listen. This is the beginning of Rudy Giuliani's radio show yesterday. Listen to what the radio station had to do here.

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[06:25:04]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The views, assumptions, and opinions expressed by former U.S. attorney, former attorney to the president of the United States, and New York City Mayor Rudy Giuliani, his guests, and callers on his program, are strictly their own and do not necessarily represent the opinions, beliefs, or policies of WABC Radio.

ANNOUNCER: Now, it's former New York City mayor, Rudy Giuliani, on New York's talk radio 77 WABC.

RUDY GIULIANI, LAWYER FOR DONALD TRUMP: I would have thought they would have told me about that before just doing what they just did. That's rather insulting. And gives you a sense of how far this free speech thing has gone. I also think putting it on without telling me, not the right thing to do. Not the right thing to do at all.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: He's miffed.

BERMAN: OK, Margaret, WABC has to put a disclaimer that the radio show they're putting on with the personality they're putting on, they can't be responsible for what he says. It was really stunning.

TALEV: It is stunning. And look, this is -- here's what's going on right now.

Technology and social media has changed so fast. Law -- the law hasn't come up with it. The legal cases yet haven't yet met up with the pace of changing media.

Media organizations have a responsibility to do due diligence and push back against unfactual statements.

And here's the thing. Like, Sidney Powell, Rudy Giuliani, in our reporting, in Axios' reporting, in our "Off the Rails" series, the people in the White House knew that their claims and their case for President -- for then President Trump were spurious and were trying to get them out of the White House, out of his ear. They knew this stuff was nonsense.

And so if you are a media organization with reach on the airwaves, it wasn't too hard to figure out how much of this stuff was conspiracy theory and nonsense.

And this is not just about financial punishment, to send a message. The companies, the voting systems companies themselves lost millions of dollars based on these claims.

So this is going to be a really important test for the modern media era and what your responsibility is about who you're putting on your air and what stories you're telling.

BERMAN: I mean, Rudy Giuliani, like -- and he's like a walking disclaimer. There needs to be someone --

CAMEROTA: I like that they didn't tell him. They were like, Oh, he'll go -- he'll go ape about this. Let's just put it on.

BERMAN: Unbelievable.

CAMEROTA: Good play.

BERMAN: Elie, Margaret, thank you very much.

We do have breaking news. The Senate, with a tiebreaking vote cast by Vice President Kamala Harris, passes a critical resolution that moves the country one step closer to a huge economic relief package. When might you see a relief check? next.

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