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Historic Second Impeachment Trial Against Trump Begins Tomorrow; Tom Brady Leads Bucs to Dominating Win Over Chiefs. Aired 6- 6:30a ET

Aired February 08, 2021 - 06:00   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald Trump's historic second impeachment trial begins Tuesday.

[05:59:39]

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We saw what happened in real time. President Trump sent that angry mob to the Capitol.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Zero chance of conviction. Forty-five Republicans have said it's not even a legitimate proceeding.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Health officials in South Africa say they are pausing the rollout of the Oxford/AstraZeneca vaccine.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It is a pretty big setback. The South African variant is in the U.K. It's not in the United States.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Seven Super Bowl wins now for Tom Brady. That's more than any franchise in NFL history.

TOM BRADY, SUPER BOWL LV MVP: I think everyone should be celebrating tonight.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: This is NEW DAY with Alisyn Camerota and John Berman.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: Welcome to our viewers in the United States and all around the world. This is NEW DAY, but it's really Tom Brady's day.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Are you saying the Chiefs didn't win?

BERMAN: It's Monday. It's really Tom Brady's day. Like, every day.

CAMEROTA: It's a national holiday for John Berman.

BERMAN: It's -- I just -- it's every day. He's won a Super Bowl every day for the last 19 years, more or less.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh. BERMAN: Tom Brady and the Tampa Bay Bucs won the Super Bowl last

night. It's Tom Brady's seventh. Seventh! He won his first --

CAMEROTA: It's Tom Brady's world, and we all just live in it. How excited were you last night? I mean, just what -- what volume were you at?

BERMAN: I mean, I was in shock. I was in shock. I -- look, it wasn't the Patriots. I mean, it would have been much more special if the Patriots. But it's Tom Brady, which is almost as special.

I know your family, a big Chiefs fan, your husband from Kansas City. I heard from him during the game. I kept on expecting the Chiefs to come back. Up until basically they didn't, I thought they were going to come back.

CAMEROTA: That was their jam, right, all this time. But they didn't. But look, OK, I mean, that's great. Congratulations. I'm happy for you.

I was very excited about the Weeknd. Did you like the halftime show?

BERMAN: I -- you know how much of the halftime show I watched? Zero. Zero. I'm not going to lie to the American people here. I didn't care. I didn't watch. I peed. I mean, like, I went to the bathroom.

CAMEROTA: OK. I peed. Well, whatever. It was fantastic.

BERMAN: Good. Was it? Because you're the only one who thinks so.

CAMEROTA: I love him. I love him.

BERMAN: America -- America more or less has panned it.

CAMEROTA: America, you're wrong. He's so talented.

BERMAN: In the meantime, the impeachment trial of the former president begins tomorrow, and while there is still a surprising amount of detail about how it will take place, we still don't know very much about what's going to go on, but some specifics are starting to trickle out.

New reporting this morning on the possible length and whether witnesses will be called. Democrats are preparing to use video to illustrate how the former president's words, actions, and tweets incited the invaders on January 6.

Congresswoman Liz Cheney, the No. 3 Republican in the House, is suggesting the president might actually have criminal liability outside the impeachment trial because of a tweet about former Vice President Mike Pence that she says serves as evidence of a premeditated effort to provoke violence.

CAMEROTA: Meanwhile, President Joe Biden is pushing for schools to safely reopen in a new interview, and he's moving towards his $1.9 trillion relief package without Republican support. Democrats are expected to unveil legislation today to address child

poverty, and concerns are growing about the new coronavirus strains. South Africa has now halted its AstraZeneca vaccine rollout after researchers found it only offered minimal protection against that variant.

But we begin with the impeachment trial. CNN's Lauren Fox is live on Capitol Hill.

What are we expecting, Lauren?

LAUREN FOX, CNN CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Well, Alisyn, we still don't know the rules that will govern this impeachment trial. But what we do know is it is all expected to get started tomorrow afternoon. And we also know that House managers are prepared if this trial goes for two weeks.

Now, we don't know whether or not there will be witnesses. We also don't know how many days or the length of this trial, ultimately. But House managers prepared for it going longer if that's the case.

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FOX (voice-over): Final preparations are underway this morning, for former President Trump's second impeachment trial. The House charging him with incitement of insurrection.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We are listening to Trump!

FOX: For his actions leading up to the deadly riot at the Capitol on January 6.

REP. DEBBIE DINGELL (D-MI): People came to that Capitol with the full intent of hurting people, so we need to hold the president accountable for what happened.

FOX: The Senate leaders are still deciding the rules of the trial, including whether witnesses can be called. Many of the senators themselves present during the attack.

REP. ADAM SCHIFF (D-CA): You can't presume that either the Senate or the country are aware of all the facts. You really need to present that full picture, and I'm confident that they will.

FOX: Trump's legal team rejecting a request for him to testify. For now, House managers are expected to use videos from the riot as evidence, with hours of footage available. Like this new clip showing the man known as the QAnon Shaman about four hours into the siege.

JACOB CHANSLEY, SELF-PROCLAIMED "QANON SHAMAN": Donald Trump asked everybody to go home. He just said -- he just put out a tweet, it's a minute long. He asked everybody to go home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you think so?

CHANSLEY: Because we won the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) day. We (EXPLETIVE DELETED) won.

FOX: They're also expected to bring Trump's repeated attempts to overturn his election loss to now-President Joe Biden and his actions on the day of the insurrection, including this speech.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We fight like hell, and if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore.

FOX: Trump's lawyers will likely argue the speech did not cause the riot and is protected by the First Amendment. And that the Senate cannot vote to impeachment Trump, because he no longer holds office.

Seventeen Republicans need to join all Senate Democrats to find Trump guilty. And with that unlikely, many GOP lawmakers are calling impeachment a waste of time.

SEN. LINDSEY GRAHAM (R-SC): When it comes to Trump, there seems to be no end to all of this. So the trial is going to result in an acquittal.

FOX: But Democrats strongly disagree.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY (D-CT): Impeachment comes not only with A provision to remove an official from office, but to disqualify them for future office. So, there is still a consequence to President Trump if convicted.

FOX: Meanwhile, Congresswoman Liz Cheney is still facing backlash for being one of ten House Republicans who voted to impeach Trump last month. The third-ranking GOP member censured in her home state of Wyoming over the weekend, saying action against Trump could go beyond impeachment.

REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY): The Senate trial is a snapshot. There is a massive criminal investigation underway. There are a lot of questions that have to be answered.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

FOX: And both sides hoping for a speedy impeachment trial. Republicans think it's time to turn the page on former President Donald Trump while Democrats are preparing this week in committees to write their COVID relief Bill, hoping that once this trial is completed, the Senate could move quickly to pass that Bill and get it signed by President Biden -- John.

BERMAN: All right, Lauren, please keep us posted. Thanks very much for being there.

Joining us now, CNN political analyst Margaret Talev. She's the managing editor for Axios. And CNN legal analyst Ben Ginsberg. He's a Republican election lawyer.

Margaret, what does Axios have this morning on what we can expect from the trial? "The Times" is reporting it could be as short as a week. They're saying there's no agreement at this point between Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell about how the trial will take place. They're the ones who actually have to agree on the exact process. What do you know?

MARGARET TALEV, CNN POLITICAL ANALYST: Good morning. John, that's right. Our reporting, as well, as of last night, we checked in around halftime with folks on the Hill, and there was still no agreement between Schumer and McConnell about precisely how to proceed.

One of the really interesting questions is going to be this question of whether or not witnesses are called. And to some extent, that's going to be governed by the agreement that's reached, but to some extent, it's just going to be governed by Democrats' strategy and approach.

And who might those witnesses be? I think two people to watch, maybe not in terms of whether they will actually appear as witnesses, but in terms of whether their testimony is going to be sort of entered into the record, are Congresswoman Liz Cheney and Chuck Cooper, this conservative attorney who we all know as John Bolton's lawyer in the most recent fights over the impeachment trial and John Bolton's book and so on and so forth.

But Chuck Cooper is actually a longtime conservative lawyer, representing and advising everyone from Ted Cruz to the NRA. Chuck Cooper coming out in an editorial, making a lengthy case for why the impeachment trial is appropriate and constitutional and debunking the argument that it's not. I think between Liz Cheney and Chuck Cooper, Democrats are going to seek to get these two prominent Republican thoughts onto the record, whether they're witnesses as we think of them, or whether it's just sort of witness testimony entered into the record.

CAMEROTA: Ben, if you were prosecuting this case, would you call witnesses?

BEN GINSBERG, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: I think I would call witnesses only in two instances. The first would be someone who could testify that Donald Trump actually told them to go break into the Capitol or was part of that planning. A new farm war about the actual plans to break in that have come out so far.

And No. 2, if I had a witness who was with Donald Trump on the afternoon of January 6, who actually had his state of mind, saw his reactions to the rioting, knows what he did when the request for additional aid came in and he delayed a great deal, I think those would be the witnesses that I would want. Everything else, I think you can probably capture on video.

CAMEROTA: OK. And what about people like this? So there are -- when you say video, there are scores of the people, the insurrectionists who were there, who say that they felt called by Donald Trump. Here are two examples.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What's your message to everybody now? What are you yelling at?

CHANSLEY: Well, Donald Trump asked everybody to go home. He just said -- he just put out a tweet, it's a minute long. He asked everybody to go home.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Why do you think so?

CHANSLEY: Because, dude, we won the (EXPLETIVE DELETED) day.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: OK, sorry, what I meant was, here's a full screen of two people who were there who said that they -- beforehand why they were going to be here.

Here's one from Kenneth Grayson. He's been charged. "I'm there for the greatest celebration of all time after Pence leads the Senate flip! OR I'M THERE IF TRUMP TELLS US TO STORM THE F-ING CAPITOL. IMA DO THAT THEN!" OK?

[06:10:04]

Then here's Jessica Marie Watkins, who says beforehand, "Trump wants all able-bodied Patriots to come. If Trump activates the Insurrection Act, I'd hate to miss it."

So she's sending out a message via e-mail to people she knows, saying, We need to go, because Trump wants us there.

So would you submit those things into the record?

GINSBERG: I would certainly submit them into the record. I would even be more interested if the FBI, in the course of its investigation, has arrested someone who said, Yes, we talked to Donald Trump, or we talked to somebody involved in his campaign or the White House, and they told us, if things didn't go right, we had to storm the building.

That's the sort of direct, live witness evidence that would actually change the minds of some of the Republican senators.

BERMAN: It was interesting to hear Liz Cheney, Margaret, talk about potential criminal liability for the former president of the United States. I want to play that one more time so people can see it and listen to exactly how she phrases it.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

CHENEY: There will be a massive criminal investigation of everything that happened on January 6 and in the days before. People will want to know exactly what the president was doing. They will want to know, for example, whether the tweet that he sent out calling Vice President Pence a coward while the attack was underway, whether that tweet, for example, was a premeditated effort to provoke violence. There are a lot of questions that have to be answered.

(END VIDEO CLIP) BERMAN: That is quite a statement. That is quite a question being asked there by the No. 3 Republican in the House of Representatives, Margaret, whether or not that tweet was a premeditated effort to provoke violence. And is that what you're getting at, when you say that Liz Cheney or the idea of Liz Cheney is something the Democrats might want to highlight?

TALEV: This is increasingly what we're hearing. As we talk to Democrats, they are increasingly talking about Liz Cheney. They see everything that she is saying as evidence that you can submit to make this case, at least to the American public, ideally to Republican senators. But again, I think everyone knows at this point where they think this vote is going.

But Democrats see Liz Cheney in this particular case. She is in leadership and has made a concerted decision to put herself on this side of the argument, on this side of history, to try to reset the Republican Party alongside her.

And there are many areas where the Democrats in the House and Liz Cheney disagree when it comes to policy, but on this particular issue, and what is an appropriate role for a president, and what is, you know -- what are kind of the boundaries and the red lines of American democracy, their interests meet in the middle on this particular issue.

CAMEROTA: And Ben, how effective do you think that would be?

GINSBERG: Well, I think if you're talking about the 50 Republican senators, I'm not sure. All the Republican senators heard the same remarks. They've drawn their own conclusions about how incendiary those Trumpian -- that Trumpian statement is.

And I think the Republican senators, who you're talking about having to persuade, will draw their own conclusions about that and not necessarily look to anybody else for guidance.

BERMAN: What about the idea, though, Ben -- because there's a two-fold argument there that Liz Cheney is making with the idea that there's a criminal investigation going on.

No. 1, it's that the president might be -- former president might still be punished even after the impeachment trial. But the other thing might be this veiled threat to Republican senators, which is, you be careful dismissing all of this, because we may still may learn much more in various criminal proceedings about a level of culpability for the former president, and politically, Republican senators, that might be on your shoulders.

GINSBERG: Look, I think that's exactly why Republican senators are so nervous about this whole proceeding. And why they want to be able to retreat entirely into the procedural argument that this is not constitutional.

It's why the Chuck Cooper piece is so important. Because Chuck has represented many of those senators. Ted Cruz was once an associate in his law firm. And so that's going to -- to sort of cause some doubts in the main hiding place where Republican senators want to be.

BERMAN: Yes. I doubt it will persuade them. They don't seem to care whether or not the Constitution actually says what they say it says. They're just basing their argument on some kind of claim.

But it is interesting to hear from a lawyer like Chuck Cooper, who does have such conservative credentials.

Ben Ginsberg, we'll talk to you again later.

Margaret Talev, thank you so much for being with us.

Tom Brady has now won seven Super Bowls. When he had only one six, he was already the greatest quarterback of all time.

CAMEROTA: You loved him even then.

BERMAN: I mean, I loved him after one! But the point is, is that, you know, the copy there said, he cemented himself as the greatest quarterback of -- He did that, like, 15 years ago. You know, what he did last night was insane.

[06:15:04]

Coy Wire live in Tampa with "The Bleacher Report." I can't even count to seven, Coy.

COY WIRE, CNN SPORTS: Yes, I see you're not wearing a Brady jersey, but a blue and red Patriots-colored tie. Good morning to you and Alisyn.

This was billed as the greatest quarterback matchup in Super Bowl history coming in. Patrick Mahomes and the Chiefs going for back-to- back titles. But 43-year-old Tom Brady wins that historic seventh title in his first season with his new team.

And of course, his first touchdown would go to his former Patriots teammate Rob Gronkowski, who came out of retirement to play with Tom in Tampa. And they score again. They surpassed Joe Montana and Jerry Rice for the most TD's by any QB-receiver combo in post-season history.

Now, if Super Bowl MVP could go to a coach, it might have to go to Tampa's defensive coordinator, Todd Bowles, pressuring star QB Patrick Mahomes a Super Bowl record 29 times. Three sacks, two interceptions. The Bucs defense holding the high-powered Chiefs to nine points.

But the MVP, Brady, for a fifth time. Three touchdowns, zero interceptions, his seventh Super Bowl win, giving him more than any franchise in NFL history. No debate needed anymore. Tom Brady is the greatest of all time.

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BRADY: I think they're all special and they're all -- it's been an amazing year. Amazing year. I'm just blessed. Grateful for my teammates, all the people that have supported us all year, my boy, Alex, you know. It's been a great year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WIRE: It's been a great couple of decades, right, John Berman? Tampa Bay, the first team to ever make it to a Super Bowl being played in their home stadium, and they win it all.

BERMAN: Coy Wire, how dare you say I didn't have my Tom Brady jersey?

CAMEROTA: He'll be --

BERMAN: How dare you?

CAMEROTA: He'll be wearing it by 9 a.m.

BERMAN: I didn't have it on, but I had it with me. It's like a binky. You've got to have it with you, you know, just in case you need to --

WIRE: You never disappoint.

BERMAN: You need to have --

CAMEROTA: This is his binky. He sleeps with it.

BERMAN: Coy, can I just ask very, very quickly? I just kept expecting Kansas City to come back. I mean, the most surprising thing to me in that game was that the Kansas City offense never found a way to get past the Tampa defense.

WIRE: You know, it's a silly saying, but I have a former teammate who used to say, there ain't no mentum like momentum. Right?

And when you were watching the Bucs, they just had this energy that was unmatchable that night. And I talked to the wife of Bucs center Ryan Jensen, Stephanie. She was sitting in the row in front of me, and she was telling me that her husband and the entire team has been lifted by Brady. He's held everyone accountable not just at doing their job, John and Alisyn, but to doing it at a higher level than they thought was possible. The work is never done with Brady, she said. And that's what allowed them to get to this point and move it on (ph).

CAMEROTA: You should see the dreamy expression, Coy, that John Berman is wearing. So John, do you think there's still a debate between who's better, Tom Brady or Bill Belichick?

BERMAN: No, I mean, not really.

CAMEROTA: You think?

BERMAN: I think it's a silly question. I think those who have asked the question, including people we may or may not work for, I don't happen to think it's that interesting of a question. I think they're both outstanding. But Brady's now won seven.

CAMEROTA: You don't think you can put that to bed right now? BERMAN: I mean, the idea -- well, just sorry. You got me when you were

talking about going to bed and then Tom Brady in the same sentence. There's, like, a lot going on there.

CAMEROTA: On that note, Coy, I'm sorry you had to witness that. Thank you very much, very much.

WIRE: All right.

CAMEROTA: OK, back to the news. As Trump faces his second impeachment trial, state Republican parties are rushing to his defense and punishing his critics. So how critical will this support be as former President Trump works to maintain control over the Republican Party? We dive into that, next.

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[06:23:31]

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CHENEY: Somebody who has provoked an attack on the United States Capitol to prevent the counting of electoral votes, which resulted in five people dying, who refused to stand up immediately when he was asked and stop the violence, that is a person who does not have a role as a leader of our party going forward. That's going to require us to focus on substance and policy and issues going forward, but -- but we should not be embracing the former president.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: That's Congresswoman Liz Cheney, the third ranking Republican in the House, arguing that the GOP needs to move past the influence of former President Trump and his lies about the election.

Cheney is now the tenth Republican to be censured by state Republican parties for either voting to impeach or failing to support former President Trump.

Joining us now is CNN political commentator and former Republican, Congressman Charlie Dent.

Charlie, great to see you. Liz Cheney is not pulling any punches. She doesn't seem very cowed by the censure of her from the Wyoming Republican Party or what's happened to her on Capitol Hill.

CHARLIE DENT, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: Good for Liz Cheney. She's standing up and owning her vote. That's exactly what she should be doing, playing offenses. She's been very clear in addressing the issue that Republicans need to speak to truth, that that should be a guiding principle.

She's rejecting the conspiracy theorists, you know, the QAnon types, the 9/11 truthers like Marjorie Taylor Greene and the birther types, President Trump. So she's seeing a clean break. She's on the right track. They went

after her. They said they had 120 or 125 votes to take her out of leadership. She called their bluff, and she beat them badly.

[06:25:07]

I think that shows you that there are only about 60 members who are really, you know, hard-core with Trump and the other 140, I think, can understand reality and support Liz.

BERMAN: Well, the other way to look at this, though, is that she's on establishment island when it comes to the Republican Party. And it's a shrinking island.

I mean, I get that Liz Cheney was able to keep her job in a secret vote, but you have these state parties -- Nebraska, Arizona, Wyoming. And you have other state party officials in Nevada, Oregon, who have just said crazy things over the last several weeks since the invasion of the U.S. Capitol and these votes, Charlie. And -- and I don't see evidence that this wave is supporting what Liz Cheney is saying.

Don't you see the trend going in the other direction?

DENT: I do understand that trend, John. But, you know, as one who has been censured by a -- by a county committee for supporting marriage equality, I understand what they're going through.

These censures are meaningless and, frankly, these state Republican -- these county committees and some of these state committees are simply out of control.

Now, I participated in a summit on Friday with about 120 Republican leaders, talking about a new direction, whether that means a new faction within the GOP or independent of the GOP or perhaps a new party. These are all on the table.

But we want to get -- we want to unite around moving forward, unite around issues like speaking truth, you know, democracy, rule of law, reason. These are things we agree on, whatever our policy difference.

And so we're talking about taking back the party in a meaningful way. And that's what we need to do. You're right. People like me are probably in the minority right now. We understand that. But -- but those censures in Arizona, they're just shrinking the GOP every time they do something idiotic like that.

The Wyoming Republicans said in their statement, in their censure of Liz Cheney that they, quote, "intend to withhold any future political funding from her. I mean -- I mean, well, you shrug. Isn't that a problem? Isn't that kind of the lifeblood of candidates.

DENT: Hey, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes.

DENT: News flash, Alisyn, you know, when I ran for office, if I had to rely on my county committees to get me elected, I would have never gotten off the ground.

I mean, these candidates have to build their own organizations. And they end up, in many cases, supporting local county committees just to keep them from causing trouble. It's not that they're out there doing the work or even providing the money.

I mean, these candidates, they raise the money on their own. But the state committees can be more helpful. I'll grant you that. But -- but I'll tell you what, if you're -- if you're going to base your campaign on support from the local party, you're going to have a tough time getting elected to anything.

BERMAN: Listen, in the case of Liz Cheney -- I mean, Liz Cheney could probably outraise the Wyoming Republican Party a hundred times, given her national stature in just the state you're talking about there. That's the only why I think that's why I think that's a little bit of an empty threat.

I'm curious, Charlie, if you -- if you overlay what's happening in the impeachment trial with your goals and the goals of Liz Cheney overall, which is to take a -- to split from the former president of the United States, you know, if you think that the former president can't be convicted here, and that may not be the ultimate achievable goal. What do you think is an achievable goal here in terms of forcing the Republican Party to break from the past over the next week, week and a half, as they watch this Senate trial?

DENT: How do you force them to break? Well, that's a great question. I mean, getting the break, I mean, I think we have to -- we have to get Republicans to simply accept the truth and that they're -- and help Republican leaders stand up and state the truth.

So when these 9/11 truthers and these -- these birthers and all the other wackos come out, you know, to actually stand up and push back, instead of just sitting by silently and letting them spread their lies and their conspiracies, like the great lie of the election, you know, being stolen. We need our leaders to speak up and play offense.

I mean, we have a foundation within Congress. You can see it, between Liz Cheney, Adam Kinzinger, Peter Meijer, Fred Upton, Ben Sasse, you know, Pat Toomey, Susan Collins. There -- there are a whole host of folks -- Mitt Romney -- who are ready to -- who are ready to lead. And I think many want to.

And if we don't, then I think you'll see the factionalization, where there'll be groups of Republicans who will stand up and say, You know what? We may be part of the Republican Party, but we're an independent faction of this party. And whether it's Mark Kelly versus Kelli Ward in Arizona, you know what? we're going to go with Mark Kelly. And if that doesn't send a message, I don't know what else will.

CAMEROTA: Charlie Dent, great to see you. Thank you very much.

DENT: Great to be with you.

CAMEROTA: President Biden targeting child poverty with a new plan to provide monthly checks to struggling families. We have all the details, next.

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