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Mass Vaccination Sites in Pandemic Fight; No Guidelines after being Fully Vaccinated; Mounting Pressure to Remove Postmaster General; Second Impeachment Trial Begins Today. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 09, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.


[08:30:00]

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: They're playing a key role in getting more Americans vaccinated.

CNN's Amara Walker live at Mercedes-Benz Stadium in Atlanta with the latest.

What have you learned?

AMARA WALKER, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Hi there, John.

Yes, in recent days we've seen the pace of vaccinations ramping up under the Biden administration with that stated goal of 1.5 million vaccinations a day. And I want to show you where things stand right now in terms of the number of people vaccinated.

According to CDC statistics, more than 42 million COVID-19 doses, vaccination doses have been administered thus far out of the 59 million that have been distributed. We know that 10 percent of the U.S. population, about 32 million Americans have received at least one COVID-19 vaccination dose. And 9.5 million people have been fully vaccinated.

Now, as you mentioned, we are here at a mass vaccination site. The Mercedes-Benz Stadium here behind me. It is one of seven NFL stadiums that are currently in use, although more are expected to come online. In fact, the NFL commissioner, Roger Goodell, told President Biden that every team's stadium will be made available as a mass vaccination site.

We also want to mention that there have been some positive trends when it comes to COVID-19 statistics, including the fact that nearly -- we've seen a 20 percent drop in the number of new cases according to the CDC, last week compared to the previous week. But Dr. Rochelle Walensky, the CDC director, says that there is reason to be concerned about these new variants. She's concerned that these positive trends could be reversed if we don't get a handle on these variants. And that's why, in recent weeks, the CDC has ramped up its search for variants here in the U.S.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) DR. ROCHELLE WALENSKY, CDC DIRECTOR: We're doing a lot more sequencing of these variants. So over the last three weeks or so, we've increased our sequencing about tenfold. So as we look forward, we're certainly going -- anticipate we might find more.

So we anticipate that we're probably going to be sequencing up to three or four more than we're already sequencing. And I think once we have more sequencing that's happening, we'll have a better idea as to how many variants there are and what proportion of them are out there.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

WALKER: Now some reassuring news about these variants. Recent research showed evidence that people who have been vaccinated will likely be protected against these variants.

Alisyn, back to you.

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Amara Walker, thank you very much.

So what will life look like once all of us are fully vaccinated?

Dr. Fauci had some ideas.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DR. ANTHONY FAUCI, DIRECTOR, NATIONAL INSTITUTE OF ALLERGY AND INFECTIOUS DISEASES: There are no CDC guidelines yet about what you do when you get a group of people, all of which have been doubly vaccinated. By existing guidelines, you still need to wear a mask, you still have to do social distancing. But I believe that's going to change, I do, because people are asking, like you, a very obvious question, what's the reason to get vaccinated in the first place if you don't - if you don't want to get to normal?

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Thank you, Dr. Fauci, for pointing out the absurdity of that.

Joining us now is CNN's chief medical correspondent Dr. Sanjay Gupta.

Sanjay, of course, if everybody's fully vaccinated, why are we still going to be socially distanced and wearing masks? Of course the CDC needs to update this.

DR. SANJAY GUPTA, CNN CHIEF MEDICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, well, this is a common question. It's one that I've had with my own parents as well.

This is the way I would -- this is the way we sort of thought about it and talked about it.

My parents, now that they've been vaccinated, they are pretty confident that they're not going to get sick of COVID. They're not going to get sick from COVID. That's a -- that's a pretty significant thing. I mean 95 percent protection against getting severe illness from COVID. I mean it's sort of this thing that they've worried about for the last year.

What they also know after our conversation and talking about this is that they could still potentially be carriers of coronavirus because, as we've talked about, the vaccine protects you against illness but not necessarily protects you against becoming infected, even if you don't have symptoms, and doesn't necessarily protect you from potentially transmitting the virus still. That's basically it.

I mean that's why the -- the sort of overall advice has been the same.

Now, if you get enough people who are protected through vaccine, then you kind of know that even if you're out and about and the virus is still out there, that you're unlikely to be the person who transmits the virus to somebody who then subsequently gets sick. It's complicated, but that's that whole concept of herd immunity. It's -- right now the people that Dr. Fauci was talking to, Dr. Fauci himself, they can go to bed at night and wake up in the morning thinking that they're pretty well confident that they're not going to get sick. But they also don't want to be carriers.

BERMAN: And not for nothing, Dr. Fauci's specific question, it was from this woman who wanted to play mahjong (ph) with her friends and they are all doubly vaccinated.

[08:35:07]

And I think what Dr. Fauci is saying, if you're with a group of people who have been doubly vaccinated, we're going to get to the point soon where we tell you, you can probably do that safely without wearing a mask. But, as you say, there are other things. And this is why it's complicated because you may still be infectious.

And then, Sanjay, and this segues into where we are in the larger discussion today, what about the variants? How do the variants play into all of this?

GUPTA: Yes. Yes, no, this is -- this is really interesting. And I want to show you as I'm talking about this what's going on in Denmark because this -- we've been following Denmark as sort of an example of what would happen percentagewise.

Like in the United States, the numbers overall, the case numbers overall, you know, sort of spiked mid-December, have been coming down somewhat now over the past few weeks. But you can tell -- it's a little bit hard to tell, but the red, the proportion of red compared to the overall number of cases is increasing. And if you start to do the math on this, you realize that the variants could sort of double in proportion every week or every ten days or so. So, you know, within several weeks it will become the dominant strain. That's what happens, if you have something that's more transmissible, it's going to crowd out the existing strain and become the more dominant strain.

But I think there's two things that are important to remember. One is, it is true that the existing vaccines offer you protection against those variants. There's some decrease in protection as compared to these current recirculating coronavirus, but it's still really good protection. Again, talk to my parents, they're very confident, strain or no strain, that they will have good protection against getting severely ill, becoming hospitalized or dying from this coronavirus. That's really good news. And I don't want to minimize that at all.

We also know that people who have been previously infected and have antibodies because of that aren't as protected against the strains but are still probably going to have some protection. So I think that that's going to count into this idea of herd immunity ultimately as well.

So, you know, when you start to add it all up, I think that, you know, the vaccines, obviously, people talk about this race, that's important. There's some existing now immunity out there from previously infected people. As you start to add it up going into the warmer months, as Alisyn and I have always had this conversation, I remain optimist, I will say this, Alisyn, that by midsummer or so, end of summer, I think we're going to be in a much, much better position where that family can play, you know, whatever games they want to play and feel much more comfortable doing it with that --

CAMEROTA: Mahjong. I need to get back to my mahjong --

GUPTA: Yes, that --

CAMEROTA: My mahjong game as well.

GUPTA: Get back to your -- if it's all about the mahjong, eventually, yes, I think we'll be able to get back there midsummer or so.

BERMAN: She cheats, by the way. There's just no question about that.

GUPTA: She --

BERMAN: Sanjay, thank you very much for being with us this morning.

GUPTA: You got it.

BERMAN: These are important questions. I mean these are the questions, I think, that so many Americans are facing now and need answers to going forward.

GUPTA: Yes.

BERMAN: And hopefully the CDC will lay things out clearly.

Thank you, Sanjay.

So, can President Biden get rid of the former president's hand-picked postmaster general? You remember this guy. New CNN reporting on this, next.

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[08:42:17]

BERMAN: The U.S. Postal Service board of governors meets today for the first time since President Biden took office. The former president's controversial appointment as postmaster general says he wants to stay in his role as many Americans are complaining about mail delays.

CNN's Kristen Holmes live in Washington.

Louis DeJoy, I mean this guy, controversial from the beginning, through the election, still wants his job. Interesting.

KRISTEN HOLMES, CNN CORRESPONDENT: Yes, absolutely. And what most people don't know is that unlike many of these top political jobs, the postmaster general usually does stay on across administrations. It's not meant to be a political job.

However, Louis DeJoy is a controversial figure. Now, he has told people around him, sources tell me, that he wants to stay in this role and that he is unlikely to unveil a ten-year plan for the Postal Service as early as this week.

But, because of that controversy, because of that link to Donald Trump, Biden is facing mounting pressure to remove DeJoy. We are hearing from Democratic lawmakers, from Democratic outside groups.

But I want to make one thing very clear, the president does not actually have that power. That is only a power that is granted to the Postal Service Board of Governors. And, right now, that board of governors is all Trump appointees and they still support DeJoy.

So, here's where it get interesting. Because of term limits, it is possible that Biden can stack the postal board to eventually, if they so choose, oust Louis DeJoy, should Biden choose to do so. So it will be interesting to watch there. We know this is on the White House's radar.

But the other thing is that all of this comes on the backdrop, as you said, of delays in mail. We have heard from -- complaints really now for several months. Even just weeks ago senators wrote a letter to the postmaster general talking about how their constituents weren't getting mail-order medications, credit card bills, I mean dangerous stuff, stuff that people need to survive, as well as if you just take a scroll through social media. You can see people posting Christmas cards, there's public outrage, postmarked in November that they're just receiving this week.

So that's the backdrop here. We know that critics of DeJoy's have said that it's his fault, it was his implementations that slowed down the delivery in the first place. So it will be up to -- it will be interesting to see how the Biden team plays this out, Alisyn.

CAMEROTA: Yes, it certainly will, Kristen. Please keep us posted. Thank you very much.

So we are expecting an update this morning on the cause of the helicopter crash that killed Kobe Bryant. Bryant, his 13-year-old daughter Gianna and seven others died in the crash near Calabasas, California, in January of last year. The NTSB has previously said that there was no sign of mechanical failure and the crash was an accident. But we could learn more details today. The NTSB is also expected to make safety recommendations to prevent future crashes.

[08:45:02]

So Donald Trump's second impeachment trial begins today. And a former impeachment lawyer is going to join us next to answer your questions.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

BERMAN: We are hours away from the impeachment trial of the former president. You're looking at live pictures of the U.S. Capitol where this trial will begin in just a few hours. The former president on trial for his role in the invasion of the U.S. Capitol.

Joining us now, CNN legal analyst Norm Eisen. He served as council for the Democrats on the House Judiciary Committee during the first impeachment trial of the former president.

Ambassador, thanks for being with us.

There are people who have a number of questions about this process. I will note that part of the defense strategy is to create the idea of questions where they, in fact, don't exist. However, be that as it may, some of our viewers have written in with questions and we would like to get your take on some of the answers.

Let me read to you from Bob Kenny (ph). He writes, is it possible that the vote to convict President Trump could be by secret ballot?

[08:50:04]

You say, Ambassador?

NORM EISEN, CNN LEGAL ANALYST: It theoretically could be by secret ballot. It's a good question. The problem is, the Senate would have to vote to make it secret. And then they would all be bombarded with questions, John, about what their vote had been. So they would -- and -- which they would have to answer. So they would both have the cover- up and then be forced to reveal. So they're not going to pass a rule to make it secret.

CAMEROTA: OK.

Next question. This comes from Joy Rohde who says, why aren't the impeachment managers pushing the dereliction of duty issue regarding Trump's behavior after the Capitol break-in. It seems like that would be a lot easier to prove than whether he incited the rioters in the first place.

EISEN: Alisyn, another great question. Dereliction of duty is an important part of the case that the managers are going to make. And you pointed this out earlier in the show, that three-hour gap in which Trump failed to act, it goes to the president's state of mind and his knowing incitement of insurrection. And we know he was also gloating during that gap of time. So it will be part of the pattern. It's just not a free-standing impeachment article all by itself. BERMAN: Stefano Lachella writes, given the unlikely outcome of

convicting the former president, therefore preventing the second vote of keeping him from ever holding office, how likely is it that Congress will later invoke the 14th Amendment Section 3 disqualification clause?

EISEN: Section 3 of the 14th Amendment, John, as you know, was passed after the Civil War to deal with the insurrectionist activity of those who had participated in the rebellion against the United States and their misconduct after the end of the war.

The -- Congress can't, by itself, invoke Section 3. Section 5 is the implementing part of the 14th Amendment. So Congress would need to do something to implement, pass a statute, as they have done in the past, allow the courts to make a determination of whether or not there has been insurrection. But Congress could set that up, including with that resolution saying they think Trump committed insurrection.

CAMEROTA: Here's an interesting question from Mark Gruetze, I believe. In a typical trial, jurors weigh the evidence and judges rule on applicable laws. Since senators supposedly act as jurors in an impeachment trial, what gives them the right to rule whether a charge is constitutional? Isn't that the role for the judiciary branch, not legislative?

EISEN: Alisyn, it's a great question. And your viewers are so smart. It reminds me of when we were on the floor of the Senate in the first impeachment handling just these kinds of questions to the House managers from the senators. The answer here is that impeachment is a very unique hybrid. It's both political and legal. So you have jurors here, in fact they're not only jurors, they're not only trying the facts, they're trying the law under the Constitution this system is set up. They're also witnesses. And it -- and they're having the trial in the chamber where the crimes of insurrection occurred.

So the Constitution sets this up. It is not the usual judicial process. It's probably not reviewable by the courts. If Senator Paul took his silly argument that you can't try an ex-president to court, the courts would say, can't rule on that political question. Constitution gives it to the Senate.

BERMAN: Yes, very specifically, the Constitution seems to deny the judiciary any role at all in the impeachment process. And when the courts have been, you know, posed the question to them before, they haven't wanted anything to do with it because of that reason.

This gets to that a little bit, the difference between a legal case and an impeachment case.

Kim Nguyen writes, what's the difference between inciting violence and political free speech in the former president's case, Norm?

EISEN: Well, the -- there's a very famous case that establishes the legal standard. Brandenburg versus Ohio from the 1960s that normally applies in an ordinary criminal case. But here, John, we have a high crime and misdemeanor. That is what the Constitution sets out as the standard for an impeachment.

In a case of impeachment, those same First Amendment protections that would apply to an ordinary crime do not apply to the same extent. So the arguments that you're hearing, this is the other main argument that we hear from the president's lawyer that his speech is protected by the First Amendment. No, the Supreme Court has held when it comes to public officials, they have a public duty.

[08:55:05]

They swear an oath. That's what's being evaluated here, did the president's words incite an insurrection? So, no First Amendment defense for him, just like the defense that you can't try an ex- president doesn't hold up under the Constitution either.

CAMEROTA: Ambassador Norm Eisen, a fount of knowledge, thank you very much for all of the answers for our viewers.

EISEN: Thanks, guys.

CAMEROTA: CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial of Donald Trump continues next.

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[09:00:08]