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Sen. Dick Durbin (D-IL) is Interviewed about Impeachment; Citi Field Opens as Mass Vaccination Site; QAnon Predicts Trump's Return on March 4th. Aired 8:30-9a ET

Aired February 10, 2021 - 08:30   ET

THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT. THIS COPY MAY NOT BE IN ITS FINAL FORM AND MAY BE UPDATED.

[08:30:00]

SEN. DICK DURBIN (D-IL): And they are saying things like that loony guy with the horns on his head, that he was waiting for orders from Trump as to when he should leave the building. I mean we're going to have a clear record for those who are honest enough to look at it and face reality.

JOHN BERMAN, CNN ANCHOR: What have you heard since last night from any Republican senators? We heard directly from Senator Bill Cassidy, who changed his mind on at least the constitutionality of it. He voted with five other Republican senators to move forward.

What else have you heard from Republicans?

DURBIN: Disappointment. They really expected a spirited defense of the president, and it didn't happen. I still don't -- I was taking notes. I have a good seat, you know, and I'm right in front there and I wanted to take notes to follow, and I just gave up on Mr. Castor (ph). I didn't -- I couldn't understand his line of thinking. Maybe he was the good cop and Mr. Schoen (ph) was the bad cop. That's the best I could come up with.

And I will just say that Schoen's presentation, heavy on rhetoric and heavy on research in some respects. You just can't stand up in front of a group like that and just read for an hour and expect to make an impact.

I really believe that the House managers did a professional job. The video was a -- just an amazing piece of work to start this. And the arguments they made were understandable. Whether you agreed with them or not, they were easy to understand.

BERMAN: So what more do you think they need to do? The meat of the case begins today. What is it that you think they need to do to prove this case?

DURBIN: I guess they're going to try to either argue that the right to free speech absolves Donald Trump from anything he said intentionally or recklessly. I suppose that they may want to argue that there were other outside elements involved in motivating this insurrection. I'm not sure where they're going with this. It's not a very strong position and it's understandable why they've had a tough time enlisting lawyers to argue it. BERMAN: What about the House managers, though? What do they need to

prove? How do they prove the former president's state of mind during this?

DURBIN: The timeline is so critical. In this morning's "Washington Post," it went through the timeline and all of the people who were begging the president to say something as this terrible event unfolded and time passed, an hour and a half passed, senators, Republican senators volunteering, they were calling frantically down to the White House to try to get the president to do something, to say something, to stop this in progress. Kevin McCarthy, same thing on the House side. This timeline, I think, is going to tell the story explicitly that it just wasn't the president inspiring this insurrection, it was the president standing by and observing it and doing nothing, virtually nothing, until the final words, as Congressman Cicilline said yesterday, bone-chilling words when he was giving this dramatic sendoff to the demonstrators saying, this is a day we'll always remember.

BERMAN: One other way, potentially, that House managers could prove the former president's state of mind is to call witnesses. And about a year ago, the then ranking member of the Senate Judiciary Committee had this to say about the importance of witnesses in trials.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DURBIN (January 15, 2020): I spent most of my life before Congress as a trial lawyer. You can't have a trial without witnesses and evidence.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

BERMAN: So, now that you are chair of the Senate Judiciary Committee, how can you have a trial without witnesses?

DURBIN: We have plenty of witnesses. We have 100 witnesses sitting in the chairs of the senators. We were all there on January 6th. We saw the vice president yanked off the podium. We found ourselves running in tunnels trying to escape the mob. And, frankly, we were running from a crime scene where we were literally sitting on the Senate chamber floor, which was just a few minutes later overrun by these terrorists. So that much evidence is already well known.

But I will say this, it's up to the House managers to present their case. If they believe that evidence and witnesses are necessary, I'll stand by the request.

BERMAN: But I get the sense that, again, and you've leaned into the idea there needs to be a record here. And it's a little different. It's a subtly different argument than some other even of your Democratic colleagues are making. But if there is to be an historical record, an important record, don't you need witness testimony -- sworn testimony. I'm not talking about the fact that all of you were there. I get that and I get how personal that is, but what about sworn testimony into the record?

DURBIN: Of course that is valuable. And if that is part of the case, it will certainly lend credibility to it. But don't overlook the fact that we're living in a videotape world. How many times are we reminded daily, hourly, that the videotape tells the story? It disputes many of the oral accounts that people give. The reality is in front of us. I'm told there are hundreds of thousands of videotapes taken by people on their phones and otherwise that catalog this event that need to be put in the record. The 13 minutes yesterday might have been just the introduction of where the House managers are headed.

[08:35:03]

BERMAN: And a lot of people who lived through it at the Capitol were struck by how they were moved by that video. It really did stir a lot of emotions.

I want to ask you one question about judicial business. You and your Illinois colleague, Senator Tammy Duckworth, you've written a letter to the Biden administration expressing your disappointment that they asked for the resignation -- I guess they asked for the resignation of all U.S. attorneys except for two who have specific business (INAUDIBLE). But you expressed specific disappointment about the asked resignation of the U.S. attorney in Illinois, John Lausch.

Do you think it's a bad idea to ask for mass resignations from U.S. attorneys in general?

DURBIN: It is customary. So it wasn't a departure from what had happened in the past. But I'd made the request as late as last week that they pay special attention to the northern district of Illinois. There is a -- there are several very sensitive investigations underway, and I'm not going to get into detail. And I would hope that Mr. Lausch, whom Senator Duckworth and I trust to be a man of integrity and good judgment, would have had the opportunity to at least complete those investigations. I hope they'll agree to let him stay on the job until we pick a successor, which will probably be months under ordinary circumstances.

BERMAN: Senator Dick Durbin, we do appreciate you being with us this morning. You have your work cut out for you as a juror and then the confirmation hearings for the attorney general nominee Judge Merrick Garland.

So, thanks for being with us this morning.

DURBIN: Thank you.

A mass vaccination site opens today at Citi Field, a New York City baseball stadium. Only a couple hundred doses are available. A live report about why that's happening, next.

But first, award-winning actor and best-selling cookbook author Stanley Tucci coming to CNN for an unforgettable journey through Italy. The new CNN original series "Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy" premieres this Sunday at 9:00 p.m.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP) STANLEY TUCCI, HOST, "STANLEY TUCCI: SEARCHING FOR ITALY": I'm Stanley Tucci. I'm fascinated by my Italian heritage. So I'm traveling across Italy to discover how the food is as unique as the people and their past.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We're hungry, right?

TUCCI: Starving.

Come with me as I taste the flavors of the land and sea.

Let's go fishing.

To discover what the food tells us about the people that craft it --

Wow.

And its distinct regions.

The maestro (ph) is making a pizza for me.

Oh, God.

That's one of the best martinis I've ever had in my life.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you don't believe in God, you believe in tortellini. It's like a religion.

TUCCI: Oh, wow.

This dish tells a story.

It has survived the darkest of times.

That's the best sushi I've ever had.

ANNOUNCER: A new CNN original series, "Stanley Tucci: Searching for Italy" Sunday on CNN at 9:00.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

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[08:41:48]

ALISYN CAMEROTA, CNN ANCHOR: Developing this morning, CNN just learning new details about the CDC's new guidance on schools, which is expected to be announced this Friday. An administration official tells CNN that the CDC will not mandate that schools reopen or require that teachers be vaccinated before returning to the classroom. Instead, the agency is expected to emphasize five key strategies to reopen schools safely, including hand washing, masking, social distancing, cleaning and ventilation and contact tracing. The CDC will also underscore the importance of testing people who are not sick to try to stop the spread of the virus. We'll have more on this as it develops. BERMAN: Yes, I need to hear more. I mean it's not for the CDC to

mandate schools reopening. I'd like to find out more exactly what that means in this case. I mean the CDC doesn't determine what schools open or not. It's not a mandate from them.

CAMEROTA: I mean sources are telling us that we may have to wait until Friday. That's when they're going to officially announce it.

BERMAN: Right.

All right, new this morning, New York's Citi Field is about to become one of the many stadiums across the country to be used as mass vaccination sites. As of this morning, 69 percent of vaccine doses available in the U.S. have been administered, but there are shortages at some places around the country and these do pose challenges, particularly at the mass vaccination sites.

CNN's Athena Jones live at Citi Field with the latest on that.

Athena.

ATHENA JONES, CNN NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, John.

You're absolutely right. Look, this is good news that this is yet another mass vaccination site that is opening. This is something that city and state officials have been planning and wanting to do for some time, announced a month ago, the issue was supply.

We're here where the Mets play. We know that last week Yankee Stadium opened as a state-run mass vaccination site to start serving the Bronx. The issue, though, is supply. We're told by the city that this site here will only be able to offer 200 doses of vaccine a day for the first four days of operation. That's today through Saturday. And that is because the city has a low supply of vaccines.

The site at Yankee Stadium is being supplied by the state and they had -- they were to give 15,000 vaccine doses -- vaccinations in the first week of operation. Here at Citi Field, it's going to be 800 doses just over the course of the first four days. It's going to be going -- half of the appointments are reserved for residents of Queens who are eligible. We're talking about health care workers, transit workers and the like.

We spoke to a health care worker who has been in line since 6:45 a.m., who was very persistent, making that -- that appointments. The other half of appointments here will go to taxi drivers, anyone who has a taxi and limousine commission license. So taxi drivers, rideshare drivers and also food delivery workers or -- service workers.

But, again, the mayor is expected to show up here at 10:30 to talk about the vaccine supply. But we know for certain that it is the issue. We have a tweet from the mayor's spokesman, Avery Cohen, saying, we have fewer than 42,000 first doses on hand. We continue to administer upwards of 30,000 doses every day. When we get more doses, we'll be able to add more appointments. This is a supply problem, plain and simple. Back to you, John.

BERMAN: All right, Athena, thank you very much for that.

So, Donald Trump will return to the White House in the coming weeks.

[08:45:02]

There's even a specific date. This is a new QAnon conspiracy theory that some are already taking action on. That's next.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

CAMEROTA: Tons of diehard Trump supporters actually believed that Joe Biden would not be inaugurated on January 20th. They had fallen for the QAnon conspiracy that Trump would declare martial law and throw every Democrat in prison, or worse. But when their fever dream did not play out, a new conspiracy theory has begun to now take hold.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump will take office as the 19th president of the United States on March 4th under the restored republic.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Hey, hey, hey, it's your favorite truth seeker, holding the light for everyone out there who's given up hope that Trump is not the president of the United States of America.

[08:50:03]

When, in fact, he is.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

CAMEROTA: Joining us now is Julian Feeld, founder, producer and co- host of the podcast "QAnon Anonymous," which works to dissect, dispel and debunk these conspiracy theories.

Julian, great to have you on.

Can you explain the convoluted conspiracy theory that has begun to take hold that involves March 4th? What are they expecting to happen on March 4th?

JULIAN FEELD, FOUNDER/PRODUCER/CO-HOST, QANON ANONYMOUS PODCAST: Good morning, Alisyn, and thanks for having me.

The March 4th theory actually comes from Sovereign Citizen Beliefs. Now in the past we haven't seen such a huge overlap. But in this case, QAnon -- certain QAnon followers have borrowed whole cloth from a belief that the last legitimate president was the 18th president. So this goes back to 1871. And this is the belief that Trump will be actually inaugurated as our 19th president.

Now, of course, this is illogical since he was the 45th, but what they believe is that there is -- there has been no country known as the United States ever since it was unstuck from the gold standard and they don't believe that any amendment past the 16th Amendment is valid. So they essentially believe that Ulysses S. Grant was the last American -- valid American president.

They believe -- I mean, I think there's different beliefs, obviously, of what will happen on that day, but I think many are expecting a ceremony. And that ceremony might be accompanied in their mind by what QAnon believers called the storm. That would be, you know, as described a little earlier on the segment, the rounding up and often military tribunals, you know, for leading Democrats and -- but also some celebrities they believe falsely to be part of this secret pedophile cabal. So essentially people are still in this belief that Trump will come back and will become the president again. Obviously, falsely.

CAMEROTA: Here's one of the craziest parts, Julian. The Trump team is cashing in on this. So they're aware of these conspiracy theories and they are trying to cash in on it. Here are the examples.

So if you look at the Trump Hotel in D.C., their room rates, OK, so they knew that January 6th would be happening, the day that there was the riot on the Capitol. The average room rate for the Trump D.C. Hotel is about $500 a night. But on January 5th, the night before the insurrection, they jack it up to $7,500 per night. On January 6th, the night -- the day of the insurrection, they jack it up to $8,000 per night. And just in case you're going to hang around for the inauguration, they jack it up to $2,200 because, of course, if you think that Donald Trump is going to be, you know, re-inaugurated.

So there's no other explanation for what they were doing there on those January 6th days. And now, here we go again, March 4th, so this QAnon theory, it's happening again. Again, the average room rate is $500 a night, but on the night of March 3rd and then 4th, they've jacked it up to $1,300. I mean that -- can you just explain what we're seeing here?

FEELD: Sure. So, I mean, there is still actually some pending questions around whether or not it was jacked up automatically by an algorithm. But if you are a hotel design an algorithm that's responding to increased demand, that still shows that there's a large percent of Trump followers, or at least enough are interested in coming on the 4th for what they believe is going to be an event that these prices are being jacked up.

Now, they may actually be jacked up manually. That's very possible as well. But what we know here is that these numbers are showing an increase in this belief, specifically this March 4th, you know, re- inauguration 19th president belief, and I believe that we were not probably going to see anything as intense as what happened on the Capitol due to many different factors, including that Trump no longer has access to many social media platforms and there's apparently, I mean, there might be a rally planned that day but, you know, a call to action was definitely a big role in getting people to the Capitol.

But there are, of course, as always, fringe QAnon believers who will take it into their own hands to act out. And sometimes that does include violence. So, you know, specialists are, obviously, worried about that surrounding that date. But, obviously, you know, the Trump Hotel is not going to turn down extra money and the Trump -- Trump himself has supported QAnon, or at least kind of endorsed its followers in the past. So it's not a big surprise.

CAMEROTA: Oh, yes. I mean said like they're very good people. They love America, blah, blah, blah.

Listen, Julian, you -- you're steeped in this stuff. I mean you've been tracking these QAnon conspiracy theories since, I think, 2017, like around pizza-gate. I mean are there some days -- you do this every day.

[08:55:01]

You have this podcast.

FEELD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: Are you -- are these days that your head explodes?

FEELD: Yes, it can be very difficult. I think to kind of deal with the flow of dissociated theories, theories that don't have any basis in reality and that are often horrifying, you know, they involve the idea that people are eating children, which goes back to blood libel, which is an ancient anti-Semitic conspiracy theory.

But we've also seen a revival of satanic panic in the United States. And, you know, this is something that culturally comes back and it goes back as well to the Bircherite (ph) movement of the '60s. It's a long American tradition of kind of paranoid, extreme Christianity and the belief that, you know, a cabal of secret people are pulling the strings, usually including, of course, Jewish people.

But, yes, it's difficult mostly because we have -- we receive a lot of messages from people who have lost loved ones to this.

CAMEROTA: Oh, my gosh, yes.

FEELD: And they --

CAMEROTA: And, you know, Julian, we have talked to some of them, too.

FEELD: Yes.

CAMEROTA: I mean that -- that really is -- look, there's a lot of tragedies of all that, but that is one of them.

Julian, we'll talk to you again. Again, the podcast is "QAnon Anonymous" podcast.

Thank you very much for your expertise and sharing this with us, particularly about March 4th.

And CNN's special coverage of the impeachment trial continues, next.

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[09:00:00]